Coming up on American Black Journal, we've got our round table back to deal with all of the things that are going on in our world.

We'll talk about the beginning of the Biden administration, the release of former Detroit mayor, Kwame Kilpatrick from prison, and the rollout for vaccines.

You do not want to miss this conversation.

American Black Journal starts right now.

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♪♪ Welcome to American Black Journal.

I'm Stephen Henderson.

We are just days into the calendar here of 2021, but already there is so much going on.

There are so many headlines that are grabbing our attention, we figured we needed to get our round table back together to deal with it all.

We are gonna talk about the beginning of the Biden administration and the policies that we're seeing them roll out.

We will talk about the debate about former Detroit mayor, Kwame Kilpatrick and the commutation he received from former president Donald Trump.

And then we are gonna talk about the rollout of the COVID-19 vaccines.

Let's get right to it.

Here's my conversation with round table guests, Karen Dumas, Kerry Jackson, Greg Bowens, and Brandon Brice.

We have a new president.

I have felt liberated in the last few weeks.

So much so that I almost didn't wear a sport coat for the show today 'cause I was like, "It's a new day and I feel unburdened in some way."

And I almost just came to the set in my shirt.

I wonder if that is the way lots of people are feeling right now as Joe Biden takes the reins and directs us into the future.

Karen, what's your reaction?

I think a lot of people feel that way, but for better or worse, everybody doesn't feel that way.

And I think that we have to understand that there are still a lot of unhappy and dissatisfied people, both with the election as with the decisions that are starting to come out of the White House.

And I don't think that those things can (distorted audio) Are gonna truly try to find some common ground, we have to address those issues.

Greg, what do you make of the early decisions that we've seen come out of the Biden administration?

Certainly different.

Is it a better direction?

For sure?

I mean it, for everything from lifting or immediately ending this no-tolerance policy for detaining people at the border and separating the families, that ended, to his whole removal or reversing the Trump administration's policy of ending programs within the federal government that address systemic racism, racial profiling, things of that nature.

And so he's been moving along quite well, I think, on delivering on his campaign promises and for giving us some hope.

I mean, you know, when Trump was doing things like saying, "Well, we're not going to teach people how to deal with folks from different races in the federal government anymore."

You know, that was heartbreaking.

It was like, "Really?

You really don't want to do that?"

I mean, their whole idea of saying that racism is just sort of normal and you just sort of have to accept it.

And we would hear that when Trump would say, "I'm the least racist person that you know," which would imply that everybody that you know, including yourself are somehow racist, you know?

And they've acted from that standpoint, I think, a lot with his executive orders and the moves that he's made.

Kerry Jackson, you are our resident conservative.

What's your reaction to the early days of Biden and the end of Trump?

I'm not sure that we're at the end of Trump yet.

The fact that 45 out of the 50 senators have indicated that they plan to not vote him responsible for the insurrection at the Capitol and that there are still 74 million Americans who feel that Donald Trump is still their God.

We're not at the end of the Trump.

He lost the election, he's not in the White House, that's fine.

Joe Biden will probably wind up, probably, wind up being a much better figurehead as a president.

The inauguration, there was a lot of symbolism there that we're going in a brand new direction, that our country has a lot of diversity, and I'm glad that they put on a terrific production with a lot of symbolism.

Karen doesn't like symbolism, but it was an entire day of nothing but symbols.

And I doubt that we're going to see a whole bunch of...

I doubt that there's going to be a sea change in terms of real policy in the next four years.

Joe Biden is an old...

He's been there for a very long time.

He's going to continue to try and work with old-school Republicans that have been there for a very long time.

I don't really think that a lot is going to change but I'm very glad that Donald Trump no longer occupies the White House.

Brandon, what have you thought of the things that we've seen Joe Biden do in these first few weeks?

Well, let me start here.

I think, you know, when we talk about symbolism, I actually have to agree.

We need to get past symbolism and start talking about substance when we're talking about living still in the age of COVID-19.

That is still alive and well.

I'm kind of torn.

I mean, on the one hand, I think we've got through the antics and some of the issues of not being able to govern with the former president but now it's the Biden show.

And the reality is, Joe Biden is, let's call it what it is, he's coming in with a democratic majority.

He's coming in with the Senate, he's coming in with the House, so no longer can he say or blame 45.

This is the Joe Biden show.

I'm kind of torn because there are some things that just recently getting and ending the contract with private prisons, you know.

That's something that when we talk about prison reform, I can get behind as a conservative.

My concerns are the 4 billion in aid that he wants to now send to Mexico where literally our Congressmen who's angry saying, "Wait a minute, why are we giving other countries and nations money, one, who don't like us, but two, at a time when the American small-business owner is struggling.

So those are the decisions that I think this president has to make, is not only is this the Joe Biden show, but Joe Biden, I think his biggest challenge, ironically, is not going to be Republicans.

It's gonna be, does he remain a centrist, or does he cater to the progressive side who is getting and growing and becoming stronger in his party.

You think Mexico doesn't like the United States?

They're our second largest- (Greg laughing) I'm talking about Mexico and also Iran.

Mexico and Iran aren't in the same category in terms of how we deal with them.

Again, Mexico's our second largest trading partner and a border country.

(Steve speaking indistinctly) But Steve, the reality is this.

We've got $4 billion.

When you talk about the crumbling infrastructure in our own nation.

We talk about the fact that, you know, Godiva and companies that we've known for years are literally packing up and closing up.

We've got a crisis in this country.

Not to mention some folks who have taken the vaccine, and we'll talk about this later, we don't know if that vaccine is actually gonna help or hurt.

So, I mean, we've got so many issues in this country that right now we've got past the Trump antics, it's time for the president to govern.

I want to make sure we get to all three subjects today.

The next one is a huge one here in the city of Detroit.

That Kwame Kilpatrick, our former mayor, got his 28 year sentence commuted.

So he is only gonna have served just a little over seven.

You know, I have been really interested in how reactive Detroiters are to this news.

He hasn't been mayor here for more than a decade, but lots of people still feel really invested in him.

And the time that he spent as mayor and they they feel really strongly about him getting this commutation.

Karen, you worked with the former mayor.

I'm gonna start with you.

Well, you know, and I've said this before, I said it in the op-ed piece in The News, you know, even people that did not like, support Kwame Kilpatrick, many of them thought 28 years was excessive.

So, you know, seven years he's out.

I mean, I think it's time for, you know, people to move on but it is something that people like to rally behind.

You said you were shocked at just the interest and the fever with which people are interested in Detroit.

It takes me back from people that have nothing to do with Detroit.

People that don't like the city, people that have never been here, they don't have a vested interest and they are hell bent on having this really aggressive position on what they thought.

Stephen, you and I have talked about it before, is that he had conveniently become the poster child for all of Detroit's challenges which was inaccurate and unfair.

You did an exhaustive piece for the Free Press that really outlined all the contributing factors to put Detroit not only where it was, but sadly, where it continues to remain today.

So I think people before they take a side, for better or worse, should arm themselves with as much accurate and factual information as possible.

Kerry Jackson, what do you think about the idea of the former mayor getting out and maybe come back to Detroit?

Well, A, Karen knows very well that people are not going to take the time to get as much factual information as possible.

That's wishful thinking.

The angle that nobody's really talked about is it was a commutation, it was not a pardon.

And the thing that has apparently just missed everybody's radar are the conditions that comes with that commutation.

What's gonna happen, it's a set up.

It was a clear set up and what's gonna happen if he fails any of those conditions, it's gonna cause, you know, calamity and a lot more trouble down the road.

But I'm hoping that he's successful.

So Kerry, talk just a little bit about what those conditions look like.

That's an important legal distinction (voice fades) He's gotta go report.

Follow a lot of rules, otherwise he could go back to prison.

He'd go back to prison and he's got 20 more years hanging over his head and he's got to pay back $4.7 million.

That's outlined...

The man doesn't have 4...

I don't know if he's got 4.7 million somewhere stashed but that's a ridiculous amount of money to have hanging over a prisoner's head.

Greg Bowens, you and I are about the same age as Kwame Kilpatrick, we grew up in the city at about the same time.

You know, he came to symbolize so much of the promise that our generation had, especially for African-American boys and men who grew up in the city at that time.

What do you think he means to us now?

I think that he means that miracles still happen.

I think, you know, he was the brother that was gonna be locked up for 28 years and that's a long time.

And yet through the most unlikeliest of allies in Donald Trump who I think is no friend to the black community, you know, became the vehicle for him getting out of jail and being reunited with his family.

Now that's a miracle.

I don't care where you stand or how you look at it.

You know, whether or not you're thinking it was too much time and not enough time, but that commutation was proof positive that miracles can happen and they happen to him, and they can happen to you.

So I see that, but also on the other hand, there's this idea that somehow we need to pass judgment on the act itself and Kwame and what he means to us.

I don't live in Georgia, but I cared that Jon Ossoff won, you know, becoming a U.S.

Senator.

I care about what happened when that brother who had ran for governor and then got caught up in the drugs and all that stuff.

I mean, these national images, these national figures that we have on the national stage mean a lot to us.

And I think that we need to be mindful of that and their position on a national stage.

What Mr. Kilpatrick does next with his life, should we even have the opportunity to see, he may just go on and live his life and love and continue on in obscurity, but whatever he does, it will remain a lesson and something worth watching.

Brandon Brice, quickly, your thoughts.

This was probably one of the testaments to 45's criminal justice reform in the sense that it took a Republican like Donald Trump to let out Kwame Kilpatrick.

But this speaks to a much bigger issue, Steve, not just about prison reform, but the fact that, I mean, there are serial killers that don't get 28 years.

And the fact that this sentence was so harsh, I think people across the board said, okay, you know, did he need to do some kind of time?

absolutely, for his crimes, but it was a bit too much.

And I think this also speaks to the double standard that we're seeing in...

I mean, and some could question that there are situations even in some of our own government right now, where folks are doing some of the same things and the media slaps them on the wrist.

And so I think this speaks to the double standard.

When we talk about the media and African-American leadership, are they held to the same standards or not?

And so I think that, you know, I'm glad that Kwame's out, I think the next... And I think it's important, what was mentioned earlier, about the fact that let's be clear, this was not a pardon.

This was a commutation where now, you know, to see what's the next life for Kwame Kilpatrick?

Is he gonna be back in politics?

Is he going to be some kind of advisor?

We don't know, but I find it ironic that he's released literally the year before the upcoming mayoral election.

Well, he's ineligible to run in that mayoral election.

But he's got influence.

He could certainly run for Congress in the 2022 election.

And he can file to run in Georgia or Texas or anywhere else that he wants to file to run.

And his deputy mayor is now running for the office.

I want to quickly get to the vaccines and also talk about these new strains of COVID-19 that not only appear to be more contagious, but there's reports now that they also may be more deadly.

You know, in some ways the vaccine is this light at the end of the tunnel, but we're still in the tunnel.

We're far from that light.

I worry that we're not acting that way.

That we're rushing to get back to life as it was before.

Restaurants are about to open next week.

And they're sending back kids to school in person.

For African-Americans, I keep saying this is especially dangerous.

We can't afford another spring and summer like we had last year.

Kerry, I'm gonna start with you.

That was the topic of this morning's show.

And I was surprised to find out that as many African-Americans, really they are ready, they just want more information on the vaccines.

They will take the vaccine if in fact, they are provided with it.

They want their questions answered.

The truth is, African-Americans simply want to make sure that we're receiving the same quality healthcare that everybody else is receiving.

And if we are, they are going to roll their sleeves up and take the shot when it's their turn just like everyone else, they just need their questions answered.

And I think that, you know, the medical community especially the African-Americans in the medical community, are doing a great job of trying to push that information out to the black community to say, "Don't believe the hype.

Don't worry about conspiracy theorists.

Go get the shot when it's your turn."

But you're right.

The fact that now that Biden is in office, everybody is saying, "Oh, Trump's gone.

We can open everything now and everybody go back to living your life."

No!

We can't!

It's still time be still wear your mask, hide out in the basement, actually wear two masks, still stay at home and stay away from people because we're not anywhere near.

I mean, President Biden said it himself, yeah, we've passed 400,000, we're heading for 600,000 before we get to the point where we're turning the, where we get to the end of the tunnel.

And folks need to realize that before they started running back out in the street, thinking that, you know, it's time now and we can go back to live a normal life.

Yeah.

Greg Bowens?

The communication and messaging around the vaccine and how it impacts the black community, I think is still messed up.

Sad to say.

You just refer to us getting to the light at the end of the tunnel.

And the truth of the matter is that even at 95% effectiveness, that means that 5% will still get sick and potentially die.

(clears throat) Excuse me.

The other thing is that the messaging is confusing because people are saying, if you get the shot, then you don't have to wear the mask.

Well, you know, we know that's not true.

So as opposed to getting to the end of the tunnel, I think we really need to say that this is another step in being able to keep you safe.

We need to really refine that message a little more.

The other thing is that the way that you sell stuff and all this stuff, I mean, I was like waiting on Kamala Harris, the vice-president, to get her shot.

I was like, "Okay, she gets her shot, then okay, I'm good.

I'll go get my shot."

(laughing) But the truth is that we're seeing people being a slick about it and jumping the line and finding ways to get their shot early.

Some guy who was an EMS guy in Florida, just got arrested for stealing the vaccine and all this stuff.

And so the shenanigans are out there.

And if the shenanigans are out there, and black folks, we know that we live in a society where the healthcare system is not the fairest to us, then the concern, I bet, is gonna get pretty quickly to where we really fall on that list of getting the shot.

I know some people, you know, even one on this panel, is not getting the shot, is an anti-vaxxer.

(Greg laughing) Who's not getting the shot?

I'll let you peruse the panel.

I had some doctors on my show the other day who talked about the fact that, you know, we're really looking at the culprits here.

The media has completely done a hit job on this issue around information and promoting misinformation.

And unfortunately, you know, there is money to be made whether it's misinforming people around the issues around the vaccine or getting the vaccine or not informing people.

And so I think one of the challenges is that this is really where, in 2021, we've got to really depend on not only science, but really the health professionals should be leading this conversation, not elected officials and politicians, because, and I'll go back to something even Greg said, the politics has swayed people from either getting a shot or not getting a shot.

And I think right now we've got thousands of people who if they are recovering from COVID-19 or just trying to assure that they don't actually contract the virus.

The other thing is looking at the economic impacts from COVID-19 and how are we going to deal with that in terms of giving those restaurant owners, getting them back up to snuff.

25% right now, that's not sustainable, Steve.

Sure, sure.

Karen, are you the culprit here?

Are you not getting the vaccination?

Hey, I'm not the culprit, but let me say this.

We are a country that has to be reminded that we have to wash our hands after we use the bathroom.

I mean, so, we've got a long way to go in terms of a level of health consciousness.

You know, I mean, we're a dirty country.

People think that their germs are okay.

We need a comprehensive strategy.

That's not going to happen because you're going to have people on both sides and we are a country that respects a difference of opinion and free will.

I don't encourage anybody to do anything that I do or don't do.

I encourage you to do and find out as much for yourself and make a decision in your best interest.

For me, no, I'm not.

And I got dragged on Twitter because I said I wasn't gonna do it.

But you know, I mean, I'm friends with people who have gotten it.

I'm gonna be friends with people who don't.

But I think that- (Steve speaks indistinctly) I'm sorry?

Tell me what your reason is.

I mean, I'm not a...

I don't take the flu vaccine.

I haven't gotten the flu vaccine.

Well the flu is not killing 1/2 a million Americans.

Are you wishing bad on me, Steven?

I'm just saying- No, I'm just saying this is different than the flu- And then that's fine.

But at this point I'm not comfortable getting it.

We've got two vaccines.

They require two completely different levels of handling and distribution.

Nobody's talked about what the ingredients are but they tell you don't take it if you're allergic to it.

The distribution, just, there are too many questions.

The trial, usually, in the beginning they said, "We need three to seven years to have an effective trial."

That was, you know, accelerated into three or four months.

It's just not something I'm comfortable with at this point.

And so, you know, I'm just gonna have to talk to Greg over the phone.

We aren't gonna be in the same room.

(laughing) Oh, Karen, I love you.

You need to get that shot, girl.

In six months no on is gonna wanna see you.

That's something I'm comfortable with right now.

I'm just not.

So, you know- It sounds like she has, as I've said, there are a lot of folks that have questions and every question that Karen said is something that...

I had someone on the show the other day that they can answer those questions, Karen.

I know but listen, just like this, you know, I heard Dr. Fauci in two different conversations.

In one hand, he was encouraging people to get it but then turned around and said "We don't know the impact of it in terms of prevention, in terms of transmission or in terms of recurrence."

So, yeah, it's just, I mean, so no.

Just not right now.

Obviously Karen's reaching different conclusions than myself.

And I hope that for most people, we reach a different conclusion but I respect the fact that you looked at the facts for yourself and decided something different.

But as your friend, I say, I want you to get that shot.

I want you to come to the conclusion that it's the right thing to do.

You know, somebody got mad at me and they said, "You shouldn't say that.

People listen to you and you're encouraging them not to get the shot."

I'm not encouraging anybody to not do anything.

I am encouraging people to do what's best for them and what they're comfortable with.

I'm not telling you not to get it.

I'm not telling you to get it.

I'm telling you to do what's best for you and your family wherever you find that comfort.

Before we leave, I want to take a couple moments to remember Hammering Hank Aaron who passed away recently at the age of 86.

He was a trailblazer, not just in baseball, but also in America.

And he's a man who braved racism and hatred that was directed toward him with an incredible grace and dignity for 33 years, he was the Home Run King of American baseball.

And he was not only a sports figure, but somebody who really fought for civil rights and racial justice.

He was a champion to all of us.

And we hope his friends and family are well in this time of grief.

Rest well, Hank Aaron.

That's gonna do it for us this week.

You can always find out more about our guests at americanblackjournal.org and you can always follow us on Facebook and on Twitter.

We'll see you next time.

♪♪ Announcer 1: From Delta faucets to Behr paint, Masco corporation is proud to deliver products that enhance the way consumers all over the world experience and enjoy their living spaces.

Masco, serving Michigan communities since 1929.

Announcer 2: Support also provided by the Cynthia and Edsel Ford Fund for Journalism at Detroit Public TV.

Announcer 1: The DTE Foundation proudly supports 50 years of American Black Journal in covering African-American history, culture and politics.

The DTE foundation and American Black Journal, partners in presenting African-American perspectives about our communities and in our world.

Announcer 2: Also brought to you by Nissan foundation, Ally, UAW Solidarity Forever, Impact at Home and viewers like you.

Thank you.

♪♪