>> Law Enforcement has been in the sights of Kentucky's new attorney general since childhood Russell Coleman handily won election as the state's top cop in November of 2023 and is committed to tackling violent crime and drug addiction.

A conversation with Kentucky's Attorney General Russel Coleman now on connections.

♪ ♪ ♪ Thank you for joining us for connections today.

I'm Renee Shaw, Russell Coleman, before becoming Kentucky's chief law enforcer as attorney general served as U.S. attorney for the Western District of Kentucky that encompasses 53 counties that was during the Trump administration.

He's also served as an FBI special agent and legal counsel to U.S.

Senator Mitch McConnell.

But what are his priorities as attorney general?

Can he find common ground?

The Democratic Governor, Andy Beshear and how much pushback will hear, sir, against the Biden administration.

He's here to answer those questions and more.

So we welcome General Coleman, good to see you.

>> Good to see you DEO.

Yeah, it's nice to say that title.

Well, so get used to it.

Yeah, but I'm I'm honored to have that title.

And with the the weight of having that title and what we're going to talk about in a moment, given that.

>> Challenges we're facing.

>> Well, I do want to start off by saying you're not an unfamiliar face to KET audience is because we've had you on that side of the studio where we have Kentucky tonight.

He's been on talking about a drug addiction with opioid fentanyl.

All of those things in our form series, you even appeared on a special program on Kentucky tonight right after the January 6 attacks and 2021.

So a lot of familiarity with Russell Coleman in these parts.

So it's good to have you over on this side of the studio.

>> Hopefully you'll feel pull your punches a little bit.

Won't be as tough as on this side.

It's a little bit more chill.

I do want to just go back to your background, though, because you are talking about before we started taping your Logan County roots, right?

And as you were entering or exiting.

>> Your role as U.S. attorney general and making your announcement that you are running for Kentucky Attorney general, how important was it for you to go back to that territory?

>> Well, we my dad worked in factories and Western talking.

So we we moved around kind like gypsies and West Kentucky, again, where I spent high school and where my dad had a farm was Logan County with amazing 21st Century facility.

They're called Logan Aluminum, wonderful employer.

And I when we moved there, I didn't know the difference between to back a knife and a butter knife.

I was that star different.

Even I know the difference between that.

>> I was from rural a dad lived in rural Davis County, but they that the city boy, right, that wonderful community was was amazing to me.

They put up with a lot young, smart l it house.

We were chatting the 4 that we went went live here that my first job off the farm or not worked into back and worked in Straw, spent number years when I was in high school towards in high school had the chance to work.

The local radio station and it the gentleman the hired made an eagle had been on the radio for 50 years.

Just a an at Logan County is a source of a lot of your colleagues in journalism.

Legends like out across an announcement that but when I had my last interview as U.S. attorney, I was it was a just a few minutes before noon before President Biden was sworn in and I left the office.

I love what's do an interview on WR U.S..

The local am station similarly when it announced a couple years later that was running potentially serve as our next attorney general.

I made that announcement on W are us.

If it means it means a lot meant a lot to me.

Yeah.

>> And I'm sure they're very proud of their hometown guy.

>> A wonderful, wonderful people.

And they put up with me and that is such an extraordinary part of the state rising folks.

Yeah.

>> I want to talk to you about the election night in November of 2023 and we were on that side of the studio and some of your dear friends were part of the ensemble that night and watching you give a victory speech.

But knowing that your one of your dear friends of not your best friend Daniel Cameron was not successful and becoming governor.

Talk about how bittersweet that moment was.

>> Bittersweet is it's pretty That was the first time I had used a teleprompter that night interesting experience.

Haha.

But in using a teleprompter, of the speeches is written and that we have spent a lot of time making sure convey my gratitude and sense of seriousness, but also a lot of speech talked about collaboration that talked about collaboration with Governor elect camera.

And so even though there was a teleprompter, a lot of my speech was ad-libbed because I had to accept probably a 3rd of it.

That collaboration that hope to do in some of the serious areas.

We were we're going to talk about here just wasn't present.

There's the personal component to see my friend not be successful and pouring himself into to serving again as but in a different role as governor.

And then the professional all of the things that he and I had talked about, how we could collaborate together to tackle some of these challenges, all about changes.

Now that fast forward to what we're going to talk about years, what collaboration looks like with the with the sitting governor.

But the next day I reached out to the governor, I reached out to to offer my desire to collaborate very next day.

And that was I was elected to to do a job and not withstand now tired.

I like to use real world language.

Look at election.

A campaign is just a job interview.

Now.

It's a long one.

18 month project really unique.

One.

And it's the geographical.

It's a it's a challenge when we live in a big state.

But I was hired and notwithstanding the fact that might my good friend was not going to be my my partner and collaborate to tackle the stuff.

We have to move forward and had to focus and will focus on collaborating with our current governor.

>> So what does that look like?

A Democratic governor which at times in the previous Attorney General administration had been at odds on policies and now with recent laws that have been passed by the Republican-dominated state legislature, the attorney general almost as much power, if not more in some areas than the governor.

>> Well, it's an important responsibility.

And so I look at it through 2 different lenses.

One in terms of public safety, the the drug crisis we have in this commonwealth, the violence that were saying not only in Louisville and we know Louisville has been on fire.

We talked about it from the studio many times, but we're seeing an uptick in violence and rural Kentucky.

So it's it's a it's a very accident challenge in those areas.

I have a job to do and I'll collaborate with the governor particular that a state police at a state police lab.

The Justice secretary, when it makes sense to do so to try to protect lives, I'll do whatever it takes and working with with his administration and said as much we've had a chance to sit down and discuss it where there is natural tension.

Is al enforce the law?

The role of the attorney general is to enforce the law, protect the statutes as passed by the General Assembly.

The capital is 3 floors.

You know, you spent a lot of time there.

If you look at a schoolhouse rock vision of the state government, our legislature sits on the 3rd floor.

There are policy makers under our Constitution.

The second floors are where our judicial system is based.

Our Supreme Court there to interpret those laws on the first floor where the attorney general where the governor sets where we are to execute what's passed by the General Assembly.

Of course, as long as constitutional, we always have to view it through that lens to my job.

executed with the General Assembly tells me to do under the Constitution and they're naturally will be some tension there dependent upon whether governor decides to challenge those measures meant because we have a different system.

Now it's it's described very differently than our in our Constitution.

That is with our super majority in the Republican supermajority, the General Assembly, the measure is passed.

Oftentimes the governor then vetoes.

It goes back up to the 3rd floor, the general, some of the overrides under our constitution that that is that should be the end.

We should move forward as policymakers.

But in this climate at the governor, of course, has demonstrated willingness to challenge a very aggressively these statutes.

And so there's almost a second veto period.

The role of the attorney general, the role of prosecutor is to defend the statutes >> I want to get specific about what you and the governor have determined are some a middle ground points where where do you see eye to eye?

I mean, we all can say that there is a drug addiction problem, but then how do you fix it?

And and I do you are you a simpatico on how to go about it?

>> Well, to be it was a it was a helpful conversation.

We set the parameters, but it was probably a very similar conversation to what Attorney General Cameron had in the first days of his administration.

The proof will be in the pudding, right?

And so again, I'll defend the laws passed by the General Assembly, but in areas of collaboration, I've met Mayor Greenberg is well, my first outreach by first text.

It's Attorney General Elect a was to the new commonwealth's attorney in Jefferson County.

These are Democrats happened to be in charge of public safety run public safety and our state's largest city that's on fire collaborating with him.

I met multiple times with a comet turning Jefferson County.

We will find a path forward there.

There are areas in which will need the governor's help.

There are areas certainly with the state police being without question the most important most impactful agency and all of state government.

We if you look at that, then diagram, we work with them quite a bit on criminal matters.

So the area didn't interrupt and so should should there be a state police post in Louisville?

>> Well, that was a discussion during the We know that more police equal less crime.

It whether that I provided a white paper statistic, we know more law enforcement done the right way.

Certainly a constitutional way equals safer cities.

So we know the state police.

We have partnerships with the state police's president Louisville.

that issue of of weather and we certainly had state police in Louisville in 2020 as we were attempting to KET the city from burning with all of our challenges there.

That issue of putting up a post is is not a live issue.

So it's simply not something that we're discussing now we're moving forward.

Yeah.

>> So let's talk specifically the drug epidemic.

And I know you perhaps it would refrain from the framing of it as an opioid epidemic because it goes beyond that.

But when we think about what Kentucky is facing and the previous attorney General Daniel Cameron and his then director of the Opioid Abatement Commission.

We're looking at Ibogaine, which is an illegal psychedelic drug that has some anecdotal evidence.

We will say, I don't know if it's any kind of empirical or statistical data that says it can be used successfully for drug treatment.

Is that an option that you embrace and what is your direction when it comes to dealing with the drug scourge in Kentucky?

>> Well, there's a lot we could spent 30 minutes talking about just that on on big game not only its powerful anecdotal evidence.

It's it is.

It is really what the impact has been on some of the patients we're looking at all options on the commission.

So the previous commissioner, executive director, the commission was a strong proponent of out again at the current commissioner.

I'm very pleased to say someone is looking at all options.

He's an absolute superstar.

Chris Evans.

>> DEA agent.

>> 9 th.

And this is someone that worked his way up to be the administrator of the DEA that ran the organization across the globe.

He's an absolute Someone who served with me on the Christopher 2 X Foundation board in Louisville.

Some of that serves our with me now in the State Police Foundation board.

This is some of this looking at all He comes from a law enforcement background.

Of course.

But the purpose of that commission has directed by the General Assembly is to mitigate to the degree we can approximately 40444 50 million dollars.

Half of the settlement money.

Take that and make victims whole to try to make communities hole.

And as much as I'm a prosecutor, I've been a law enforcement officer.

Chris Evans spent his career in DEA carrying a badge and a gun.

We both are in alignment that you have to have, of course, a strong enforcement piece.

You have to have a strong treatment peace.

The great work of our can actually having sufficient beds to treat the skirt.

But what we're short shrift in, it's the prevention front.

You have to have prevention enforcement and treatment and we don't we don't do prevention at a statewide level.

What is going to even look like?

What is it even look like?

>> And the best model for prevention in the Commonwealth.

And we're going to look across the country and the beauty of of having someone of Chris Evans, a reputation scale is he's going to look at programs across the country.

Operation Unite here in Kentucky is a great example of that prevention there.

Isn't that significant education piece and that means getting to kids early.

We see users as early as 11 and as as a parent, we want to guard our kids hearts as long as possible.

I want to KET the nastiness of the world away from them as long as possible.

Preserve their innocence.

But Renee, when we live in an environment, where is little as one pill can kill and doesn't we prosecuted those cases?

One pill?

We have to do things differently.

We have to talk about kids talk about these these challenges earlier in earlier, a kid thinks he's taking a Xanax Rivlin, something that he or she is prescribed unless it comes directly from that pharmacist, there's risk that there's fentanyl present and we may lose them and so prevention looks like strong education.

You know, we didn't dare many years ago.

We did.

This is the egg frying in the Friday.

And and we may have overdone it because certainly we want to prevent drug use.

>> Just say no.

Was the just say no, but we exist and environment.

We didn't.

Then.

>> Where a single pill and does killers are sons and daughters.

So we have to look at best practices data that that data demonstrates has efficacy.

I think operation Unite is a great model.

Parts of it to look at expanding something like that across the state.

I can't I can't tell you what it looks like it.

I know it's education centric, but we're going to look, we're going to evaluate.

We're going to have conversations that the purpose of the commission to bring in best practices.

But what I pledge to use, we will have a scaled up or are multiple scaled up prevention efforts in this commonwealth.

We have to protect our kids.

>> Let's talk about the Louisville crime because we know that that has cadre of House Republicans to now they have officially filed the safer Kentucky at started off having 18 points.

some of those may the fallen by the wayside that were controversial.

Did you have conversations with them since you've been talking to the local elected officials in Louisville did include some of those House Republicans who filed that bill.

And what do you like about and and that bill?

And what do you not like in that bill?

>> Well, I can't brag on that group of representatives from Louisville enough.

What they have done and and and putting forward this grab bag, approve this proposal which is now the House Bill.

5.

This is what they're seeing in their neighborhoods.

It's the best reflection.

Representative legislators seeing a challenge on their own front door in their own front yard and translating that into legislation to to attempt to mitigate.

I met with them early on with the entire group of of House members, Jared Bowman doing a phenomenal job caring that Bill brand new.

>> Legislation, legislative sophomore maybe now.

Well, it represent moment I want and then Representative Bratcher who unfortunately were will be our our next Metro Council were loop losing him.

Jason Amos is leading on it.

Susan Witt and the Representative Fleming, some real talent willing to to lean.

And I'm proud of what they're doing.

They're reflecting what were the challenges are that the carjacking statute being a significant that we need to tackle something that may be more obscure.

But I want to highlight it involves group violence, intervention, focused, deterrence.

We've had a really limiting factor in making that work in Louisville.

Some of its been bureaucracy under the previous mayor administration.

Some of it is some bureaucratic challenges to getting those that are on parole on probation in some of the call.

And so we can start to initiate, engage with them.

This bill is a component that bill, the bill that will tackle that.

>> When you talk about group violence intervention, what does that really mean and how is it different from other models that communities used to combat violence?

Unfortunately, it's an acronym it.

Yeah, I've been a I'm just saying that it is.

But it is.

It is some years ago when we saw that that are aggressive prosecutions, federal firearms prosecutions, it.

>> We increased those prosecutions, 70% pushing hard going after the trigger pullers.

We still had 90 homicides and will 19 and that was 2019.

You had.

By comparison.

You had 24 here in Lexington, every one of those it is too many.

But we were pushing 200 homicides and local now.

And so is a recognition in 2019 that what we're doing wasn't working.

We need to try we need to try to strategies that have been used in other cities.

It is that I brought to the King David Kennedy, a professor from John Jay College in New York.

He's been he's been on 18 number of times.

He is the originator of what's known as the Boston Miracle.

It was the a 50% reduction homicides in Boston about 20 years ago and what it does it uses.

Intelligence led policing.

Dana finds that a small number of folks are the trigger pullers.

Let's target them with either aggressive prosecution.

Alright, and the traditional law enforcement route, federal, state, local push hard or given the opportunity to get out of that from job training to mental health, to set whatever it takes to stop reciprocal violence, the back and forth shootings.

That percent.

We rolled out in Louisville.

I was pleased the business community funder that we've talked about it on KET a number of times.

It's not been as effective as it should have been and so we're tweaking that working with Mayor Greenberg as attorneys general will be working with the administration to make that more effective in Louisville.

Yeah.

>> So I want to draw a connection here and you tell me if I'm off the mark, when you just talked about job training and these early interventions, does that not make the case for a more robust universal Pre-K system that follows a child in the early years.

The ages of as possible to get their mind right to and to have social services, wraparound services to families that are struggling.

I mean, really making more robust.

The social safety nets so that you don't have to worry about perhaps them getting involved in violent crime.

Would you agree with that?

>> This issue is framed up to oftentimes in a 0 sum way.

You're either for addressing root cause.

You're either for getting in addressing educational outcomes and dealing with early health outcomes and early Pre K or you're for strong law enforcement and enforcing the law and >> it's not bifurcated.

It is not.

It is that that is a false But what I would say, Renee, is my job is is public safety.

My job is law enforcement to enforce the law.

>> You can't get to any of those other interventions.

You can't get kids on their front porch of the bus.

Stop.

If if you live in a violent neighborhood as we see as violent as neighborhoods and low water come, we'll start to see.

So there are things we can do that.

I would prioritize spend my time and limited resources to advocate for to even allow for any of those other interventions that you're an advocate for.

But first, an foremost there is no need to to frame them up as a zero-sum.

My role, though, is to work with federal state, local law enforcement with prosecutors with whomever will join with us so that we can create a modicum of safety, their neighborhoods in Louisville, where kids sleep in bathtubs.

There are neighborhoods in Louisville.

Renee were kids sleep under their beds at night.

I have been to the funeral of a little girl who was buried her Disney coffin because she was killed or Disney Playhouse for Frozen Playhouse along with her dad.

She was just added on reprisal to demonstrate behalf of one game versus another.

Her name was Trinity Randolph.

I stood her coffin with her mom and she saw I've.

I've held the hand of Dequante Hobbs grandmother prosecuted the shooter of a 7 year-old.

What was he doing wrong in his Russell neighborhood?

Renee, he was sitting at a kitchen table eating birthday cake with an op-ed.

And so when I talk about will will be on fire.

And it's not just of a metaphor.

Kids can't play on an iPad to that being shot in the neck in neighborhoods, in the largest city in our commonwealth.

That's what fuels me.

That's why I saw this 18 month job interview process to get back in the fight as attorney general to work with whomever Democrat Commonwealth's attorney, Democrat Governor, Democrat, mayor, whomever or this great group of legislators from local Republicans who want to get into this fight were on fire there.

And that's why I'm back in this fight and so happy 2 to again, serve and carry a badge and law enforcement.

>> I do want to revisit an effort that you are part of a few years ago called the Smart on Crime Coalition that looked at bipartisan non-partisan solutions to eradicating or reducing crime and such things as raising the felony threshold because it was trying to get at Kentucky's really high mass incarceration rates.

Is that still a goal?

Are we moving as a state philosophically, an ideology ideologically away from smart on crime to tough on crime.

>> They're also not mutually exclusive.

The focus with smart on crime was to particular with re-entry.

And that's the concept of getting folks post punishment getting.

And I believe in punishment.

I believe that there should be.

>> Negative outcomes for negative behaviors.

I believe in determines I believe in isolation of the most violent offenders.

What we were talking about and smart on crime is dealing with addiction and the the the over face of addiction and low-level offenses we were dealing with trying to get those that had served their time back to work to eliminate the barriers they had served their time to society, get them back to work, to eliminate stigmas that are present.

We had no expunged, but low-level was the was an advocate for its punch.

But then for nonviolent felonies to get people back to work.

>> But no cash bail was also one of the provisions was another one.

Time was so smart on crimes of a broad category.

That was not something that I had ever advocated for.

Getting smart on crime involved a I wasn't there.

I was an advocate when the focus was re-entry.

Ryan Focus was post punishment which I'm still a strong advocate for Inter what we're doing inside our prisons and jails to truly reform those so that when they exit they can become viable members of our community.

They're unlike that era, though, where there was bipartisan interest in criminal justice reform.

There's bipartisan interest and a great deal of interest and deterrence in in attempting to eliminate homicide rates were were pushing 200 a year in Jefferson County where we've seen violent crime increase 68% and world Kentucky was on that in World counties, almost a 70% increase in violence.

Is that gang activity?

What is that attributed to in Louisville?

It is right.

And the rule areas that it is both domestic a narcotics activities, a big I would say a drug activity is the is the fuel of so much violence in our commonwealth.

it is a tie oftentimes particularly Western and central Kentucky.

It is time the ball.

>> And so it we're in a time when people when law enforcement out in the state would all agree that the resources and time need to be focused on Louisville because it is so problematic.

It is our greatest challenge.

The great city, wonderful people, wonderful neighborhoods, which is why they did serve.

So many people deserve to live in a greater modicum of safety.

And that's not happening in Jefferson County.

>> What do you see as your role as attorney general and helping though communities that feel some distance and even threat by an from law enforcement.

Do you see it as your role as the staff?

The state's top cop to help bridge those kind of cousins that that happened between those communities, primarily communities of color in law enforcement.

>> 100 1%.

I serve all of Kentucky.

I'm the attorney general for counties.

Whether you supported me or attorney general for rural counties, urban counties.

But what I saw Renee in 2020 in Louisville as the U.S. attorney, what I saw that broke my heart was what I felt relationships that are starting to be built or that I thought were accident.

We're just wrenched apart.

Louisville was a was a horrific place to be in 2020, which is why I supported legislation for the Senate Judiciary Committee that would eliminate the powder versus crack cocaine at a time when the African-American community, we don't what was was calling for that and supported law enforcement that was seeking that to try to take steps to build back those relationships.

I as U.S. attorney spent a lot of time concept that many of your viewers in Central Kentucky won't know.

But unfortunately in Louisville, it persists this concept of west of 9th that some people don't go a West 9th Street right?

Because that it because those are primarily African-American neighborhoods.

I reject that.

I did grow up in Louisville.

I reject the nice street to buy.

I was us attorney.

I was us attorney for all of the all of of of Louisville and all of my district.

So I absolutely will be working brick by brick to try to build back some of those relationships or build them when they weren't present.

I want to protect those those families.

Most of those victims, most of those victims that we talk about in Louisville are in the African American communities.

>> Well, we need far more time.

General Coleman to talk.

We didn't even get to child exploitation of some of the other efforts outside of of drug addiction that year and wanting to talk about.

There's plenty of time.

We have and a half, 3 and a quarter more years.

How many more years we have so 4 years, total so years.

Yeah.

Why?

Yes, absolutely so.

Thank you so very much.

And we'll be in touch.

Well, this is important and I look forward to discussing with absolutely my best to you.

Thank you so much for watching connections today.

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I'm Renee Shaw.

Take really good care and also ♪ ♪ ♪