
How alleged death of Prigozhin impacts Russia's stability
Clip: 8/23/2023 | 9m 46sVideo has Closed Captions
How the suspected death of Prigozhin could impact Russia's stability
Russia's aviation agency says Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of the Wagner mercenary group, was on board a plane that crashed near Moscow. The crash comes two months after Prigozhin's attempted coup against the Kremlin. Amna Nawaz discussed the development with Angela Stent and Candace Rondeaux.
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How alleged death of Prigozhin impacts Russia's stability
Clip: 8/23/2023 | 9m 46sVideo has Closed Captions
Russia's aviation agency says Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of the Wagner mercenary group, was on board a plane that crashed near Moscow. The crash comes two months after Prigozhin's attempted coup against the Kremlin. Amna Nawaz discussed the development with Angela Stent and Candace Rondeaux.
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Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorshipAMNA NAWAZ: We return now to our other lead story, a plane crash in Russia that could have ramifications around the world.
A jet went down today en route from Moscow to St. Petersburg.
The airline said it was carrying the head of the infamous Wagner mercenary group.
Outside of Moscow, a plane falls from the sky, the possible fiery fate of a former Kremlin-soldier-turned-traitor.
Yevgeny Prigozhin rose from the St. Petersburg underworld to become known as Vladimir Putin's chef, thanks to Kremlin catering contracts.
He helped cook up the 2016 U.S. disinformation campaign from this St. Petersburg building.
And then Prigozhin's Kremlin catering turned violent.
His paramilitary empire Wagner Group deployed thousands of mercenaries to a dozen countries to do the Kremlin's bidding.
In Ukraine, Wagner helped Russia capture the center of Bakhmut in the war's longest and deadliest battle.
YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN, Wagner Group Chief (through translator): Thanks to Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin for giving us the high honor to defend our motherland.
AMNA NAWAZ: But he also turned his ire toward Russia.
He questioned the war's goals and blamed military leaders by name for his men's deaths.
YEVGENY PRIGOZHIN (through translator): We have a 70 percent shortage of ammunition.
Shoigu, Gerasimov, where is the ammunition?
AMNA NAWAZ: And then his most notorious act, a coup attempt and march to Moscow.
It was aborted, but Putin called it - - quote -- "a stab in the back."
VLADIMIR PUTIN, Russian President (through translator): Excessive ambition and vested interests have led to treason, a betrayal of the country, its people and its cause.
AMNA NAWAZ: Today, President Biden said he couldn't confirm Prigozhin's death but suggested the coup attempt sealed his fate.
JOE BIDEN, President of the United States: I don't know for a fact what happened, but I'm not surprised.
QUESTION: Do you believe Putin was behind this, sir?
JOE BIDEN: It's not much that happens that Putin is not behind.
AMNA NAWAZ: For more on Prigozhin and the plane crash, we get two views.
Angela Stent worked in the State Department during the Clinton administration and served as a top U.S. intelligence officer on Russia during the George W. Bush administration.
She's now a professor at Georgetown University.
And her latest book is called "Putin's World."
And Candace Rondeaux is a senior director at New America, a Washington, D.C.-based think tank.
She's written extensively about the Wagner Group and Prigozhin.
Welcome to you both.
Candace, so far, we have Russian authorities, as well as some social media accounts linked to the Wagner Group, saying Prigozhin was on board and was killed.
Should we have any reason to doubt those reports?
CANDACE RONDEAUX, Senior Director, New America: Well, there's always a reason to question what comes out of the Kremlin.
We know that, in past situations, Prigozhin has been predicted as dead in other plane crashes.
We saw that several years ago back in 2018-2019.
There was a Congo crash.
But I think, this time, we see the reaction on Telegram from Prigozhin's fans, Wagner fans, people who are close to him, seeming to confirm that, in fact, he is dead and the namesake of Wagner Group, Dmitry Utkin, is also dead, along with several others who were very involved in the business.
AMNA NAWAZ: Angela, you heard the comments there from President Biden.
Also CIA Director Bill Burns had recently said he'd be surprised if Prigozhin escaped retribution after that coup attempt.
Would Putin want Prigozhin dead?
And do you believe he could be behind this, if Prigozhin is dead?
ANGELA STENT, Director, Center for Eurasian, Russian and East European Studies, Georgetown University: Oh, I think Putin would have enough reason to one Prigozhin dead.
After all, Prigozhin challenged the Kremlin.
He challenged the conduct of the war.
He had a populist message to Russians that, while their children were dying and their husbands dying in Ukraine, the children of the elite were in the South of France enjoying themselves.
So there was plenty of challenge there.
And Putin in that brief excerpt -- extract that we saw from his television appearance on the day of the coup was certainly very angered by it.
It may also be -- and I think, if indeed, they - - it was an assassination and the plane was shot down by Russian air defenses -- and we don't know that yet.
That's the speculation.
It's also really to try and deter other people in the elite, in the military from challenging Putin again, just making them understand what will happen to them if they do.
AMNA NAWAZ: Candace, what about that?
If this was an assassination of some kind, how would that be received and perceived in Russia?
What's the message that's meant to send?
CANDACE RONDEAUX: Well, the message is, mess around, and you will find out, basically.
I think the timing is interesting.
We heard just recently that Sergey Surovikin, General Armageddon, as he's known, a big backer of Prigozhin for a very long time since their days together in Syria, he apparently was demoted, has been under house arrest.
There are still other shoes, I think, left to drop in terms of the retribution inside the military, a number of different commanders there who probably will be, I think, dealt with or are being dealt with.
So that's going to be really key to watch.
But in terms of what we're hearing out of places like Belarus, where we know there are some Wagner contingents still operating, we see that there are reports of the Internet being cut off, cell phones also being cut off in that area.
And so that suggests, in fact, that there is some concern in the Kremlin that there could be some sort of retribution or some sort of operational sort of revenge plan that Prigozhin had in place in case of death.
AMNA NAWAZ: Angela, up until recently, we should remind folks that Wagner Group, led by Prigozhin, played an absolutely crucial role for the Kremlin and Russia's war in Ukraine.
If Prigozhin is dead, what kind of impact would his death have on that war?
ANGELA STENT: So I think we already saw that Wagner troops were withdrawing from Ukraine.
As you were -- your report showed, they were instrumental in taking Bakhmut, for instance.
But there are fewer of them there.
We don't, I think, quite know the numbers.
But I think what's very interesting is just on Monday, a video came out with Yevgeny Prigozhin reportedly in Africa, saying that the Wagner recruitment is going on, and that they want people particularly to go and fight in Africa, to join the coup, people in Niger and things like that.
So, even if Wagner will be less important now in Ukraine, for the time being, it looks as if it will still play a crucial role in other theaters in the world, particularly in Africa.
AMNA NAWAZ: Angela, what about those other operations, though?
As you know, Wagner Group is not just a security arm of the Kremlin.
It's also a business one.
They run mining operations in a number of countries.
Is there someone else who could step up and take Prigozhin's place?
ANGELA STENT: Well, I mean, there's certainly other commanders in Wagner, including people in Africa.
There isn't anyone who has the charisma that he has had as a Wagner leader.
So, in that sense, whoever is running Wagner in the future -- and, as you said, his right-hand man, Dmitry Utkin, was also killed -- there won't be an individual like that, certainly not someone who will try and kind of rouse to the public to criticize the war.
And so I think that would be another impact of his death, is that you're not going to have other people criticizing the war.
And yet, as was already mentioned, the military bloggers and the pro-Prigozhin people, they're going to have a feeding frenzy in the next few weeks, maybe months, criticizing the Kremlin.
And so that could lead to some greater instability, at least in the short run.
AMNA NAWAZ: Candace, in the minute-and-a-half or so, we have left we have to reflect.
Prigozhin is such a unique figure, right?
He went from a Kremlin caterer, to a disinformation force, to head of this paramilitary empire.
If he is dead -- we have to stress we have not had this confirmed by U.S. officials - - but how do you look at his legacy, his impact on power and also Putin's agenda?
CANDACE RONDEAUX: Well, I mean, his legacy is Putin's legacy.
They came of age really almost exactly the same time.
There's only 10 years between them.
They're both native sons of St. Petersburg, and they really kind of, together, grew into the men they are today, or at least they were today, in this mafia culture in the wild '90s.
And had it not been for that, I think, fusion of interests back in the '90s and the overlap between the mafia and the KGB, maybe we wouldn't be talking about Yevgeny Prigozhin today.
But I think he leaves a tremendous legacy, a stain, certainly, on the Russian -- and the Russian history, on Putin's legacy as well, and enormous amounts of death and destruction and the loss of many innocent lives, including journalists, human rights activists who tried to expose his misconduct and his wrongdoing over the years.
So, in a way, perhaps it's a -- it's a moment of closure and justice for those who have suffered at his hands.
AMNA NAWAZ: Candace Rondeaux and Angela Stent, thank you so much for joining us.
ANGELA STENT: Thank you.
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