>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS  LIKE YOU.

>> Lou: THIS WEEK ON NEW  MEXICO IN FOCUS, THE CIRCUS COMES TO SANTA FE AS THE  NATIONAL MEDIA DESCEND ON THE COURTHOUSE FOR THE TRIAL OF  ARMORER HANNAH GUTIERREZ-REED IN THE FATAL RUST FILM SET  SHOOTING.

PLUS --  >> DEFINITELY THE TRUST HAS BEEN LOST.

I THINK WE WERE MAKING SOME STRIDES BUT THIS DEFINITELY  SET US BACK.

JUST NO OTHER WAY TO SAY IT.

IT IS THE TRUTH.

>> Lou: NEWLY ELECTED  ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCILOR, NICHOLE ROGERS, LAYS OUT HER  PRIORITIES AND TELLS US HOW THE CORRUPTION INVESTIGATION  OF APD HAS HURT PUBLIC TRUST OF POLICE IN HER DISTRICT.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM SENIOR PRODUCER LOU DIVIZIO.

THE TRIAL OF RUST FILM SET ARMORER, HANNAH GUTIERREZ-REED  BEGAN THIS WEEK IN SANTA FE.

SHE'S CHARGED WITH INVOLUNTARY  MANSLAUGHTER AND EVIDENCE TAMPERING IN THE DEADLY  SHOOTING OF CINEMATOGRAPHER HALYNA HUTCHINS IN 2021.

IT IS THE FIRST OF TWO EXPECTED TRIALS WITH A SECOND  FOR ACTOR AND PRODUCER ALEC BALDWIN YET TO BE SCHEDULED.

LATER IN THE SHOW WE SIT DOWN WITH AN ATTORNEY AND A  JOURNALIST TO TALK ABOUT BOTH CASE.

WE'LL BREAKDOWN THE CHARGES, THE POLITICS AND THE POTENTIAL  INDUSTRY IMPACTS.

A BILL TO BRING AFFIRMATIVE  CONCEPT POLICIES TO PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES  ACROSS THE STATE IS HEADED TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK AFTER  PASSING THE LEGISLATURE LAST WEEK.

THE YES MEANS YES LEGISLATION WOULD REQUIRE HIGHER EDUCATION  INSTITUTIONS TO INCLUDE MATERIALS AND RESOURCES IN  STUDENT ORIENTATION PACKAGES.

IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE  SHOW, REPRESENTATIVE LIZ THOMSON, WHO SPONSORED THE  BILL, AND ADVOCATE ALEXANDRIA TAYLOR STOPPED BY THE STUDIO  TO DISCUSS HOW CONSENT EDUCATION CAN HELP PREVENT  SEXUAL ASSAULT AND TO EXPLAIN HOW THE BILL WAS AMENDED TO  LEAVE THIS NEW CURRICULUM OUT OF K THROUGH 12 CLASSROOMS.

BUT, FIRST, AN INTERVIEW WITH NEWLY ELECTED ALBUQUERQUE CITY  COUNCILOR NICHOLE ROGERS.

AFTER WINNING A RUNOFF  ELECTION LAST FALL, ROGERS BEGAN HER TENURE REPRESENTING  DISTRICT 6, ALBUQUERQUE'S SOUTHEAST HEIGHTS, IN JANUARY.

THIS WEEK WE ASKED ROGERS ABOUT HER PRIORITIES FOR THE  DISTRICT AND WHAT IT MEANS TO HER TO BE THE FIRST BLACK  WOMAN TO SERVE ON ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCIL.

ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCILOR, NICHOLE ROGERS, THANK YOU SO  MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> Rogers: THANK YOU FOR  HAVING ME.

>> LOU: NOW WE ARE NEARLY TWO  MONTHS INTO YOUR FIRST YEAR AS A CITY COUNCILOR FOR  ALBUQUERQUE.

HOW HAS THOSE FIRST COUPLE OF  MONTHS GONE AND WHAT CONCERNS HAVE YOU HEARD FROM YOUR  CONSTITUENTS, BOTH IN YOUR CAMPAIGN AND SINCE YOU HAVE  TAKEN OFFICE.

>> Rogers: THANK YOU.

TWO MONTHS, YES, IT FEELS LIKE I HAVE BEEN HERE A LOT LONGER  WHICH IS A GOOD THING.

AND I THINK THE BIGGEST  DEADLINE FOR US WAS OUR CAPITAL REQUEST FOR THE  LEGISLATURE WITH THE SESSION THAT JUST CAME IN, SO I REALLY  PROMISED TO HIT THE GROUND FUNNING AND WE REALLY HIT THE  GROUND RUNNING.

RIGHT AFTER THE RUN-OFF  ELECTION DECEMBER 12, AFTER CHRISTMAS, I WENT RIGHT INTO  THE OFFICE TO START GETTING JUST GETTING A HANDLE ON WHERE  WE WERE IN OUR DISTRICT, ASKING THE DEPARTMENTS TO GIVE  ME A LIST OF EVERYTHING THAT HAS HAPPENED AS FAR AS  PROJECTS, WHETHER IT IS PARKS, ROADS, STREETS, HOUSING,  WHATEVER PROJECTS ARE SLATED FOR OUR DISTRICT, GIVE ME A  LIST OF THOSE, HOW MUCH FUNDING DO WE ALREADY HAVE,  HOW MUCH FUNDING DO WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO FINISH THESE  PROJECTS, SO I CAN MAKE SOME THOUGHTFUL REQUESTS TO THE  LEGISLATURE.

MET THE DEADLINE BY  JANUARY 11, GOT SWORN IN JANUARY 2 AND REALLY JUST HAVE  HIT THE GROUND RUNNING, MAKING SURE I GET BACK TO THE  NEIGHBOR ASSOCIATIONS TO BEGIN TO SET OUR DIRECTION FOR WHERE  WE WANT TO GO IN THE NEXT FOUR YEARS.

SOME OF THE THINGS I HEARD, I THINK THEY REALLY HAVEN'T  CHANGED FROM THE CAMPAIGN TO NOW, WHICH IS HOMELESSNESS AND  HOUSING, PUBLIC SAFETY.

STILL A BIG CONCERN FOR  ESPECIALLY MY DISTRICT.

POVERTY IS REALLY THE OTHER  ONE THAT I HAVE BEEN FOCUSING ON NOT JUST IN THE ELECTION  BUT NOW TRYING TO GET A HANDLE ON WHAT THE CITY IS DOING FOR  POVERTY, WHICH IS NOT TOO MUCH.

SO WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK THERE TO DO, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE  DISTRICT 6, ALL OF THE POVERTY FOR BERNALILLO COUNTY IS  REALLY CENTERED IN DISTRICT 6, SO WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THAT  AS WELL.

>> Lou: THOSE THINGS THAT YOU  JUST MENTIONED, IS THERE SOMETHING SPECIFIC AMONG THEM  THAT INSPIRED YOU TO RUN IN THE FIRST PLACE THAT YOU  WANTED TO GET ACCOMPLISHED.

>> Rogers: FOR ME, I REALLY  WANTED TO ALIGN THE COMMUNITY VOICE WITH THE CITY'S  PRIORITIES.

HAVING WORKED IN THE CITY THE  LAST COUPLE OF YEARS AND BEING A COMMUNITY ACTIVIST AND DOING  COMMUNITY WORK, I OFTEN SAW THOSE PRIORITIES NOT ALIGNING.

AND I REALLY DIDN'T SEE REPRESENTATION FOR ME AND SO  THAT IS REALLY WHAT INSPIRED ME TO JUST SAY, WHY NOT ME?

SO, I JUMPED IN THE RACE LATE, LAST CANDIDATE TO GET IN THE  RACE.

WE HAD SIX TO START AND FOUR  ENDED UP ON THE BALLOT AND THEN HAD TO DO A RUNOFF, SO,  YES.

>> Lou: SPEAKING OF THAT  REPRESENTATION, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU TO BE THE FIRST  BLACK WOMAN SERVING ON ALBUQUERQUE'S CITY COUNCIL?

>> Rogers: I FEEL THE WEIGHT OF THE RESPONSIBILITY, I  THINK, IS THE FIRST THING THAT COMES TO MIND.

IT IS SAD THAT IT HAS TAKEN THIS LONG, SO, BUT I REALLY  DURING THE CAMPAIGN DIDN'T PUSH THAT UP AS MUCH AS I  THINK MOST PEOPLE WANTED ME TOO.

I WANTED PEOPLE TO CHOOSE ME BECAUSE I AM SMART, I HAVE  EXPERIENCE AND LIVED EXPERIENCE AND PROFESSIONAL  EXPERIENCE THAT COULD REALLY HELP US ALIGN MORE OF THE  CITY'S PRIORITIES WITH THE COMMUNITY'S PRIORITIES.

SO, I JUMPED IN.

AND I AM EXCITED THAT I DID  AND IT WAS A LOT.

BUT I AM EXCITED.

>> Lou: I AM SURE IT IS HARD TO BALANCE THOSE THINGS AND  HAVE YOU HEARD FROM BLACK RESIDENTS IN YOUR DISTRICT BUT  ACROSS THE WHOLE CITY TOO, ABOUT WHAT IT IS LIKE FOR THEM  TO SEE THEMSELVES REPRESENTED ON THE COUNCIL?

>> Rogers: I THINK THAT WAS THE MOST OVERWHELMING MOMENT,  I THINK, DURING THE SWEARING IN TO SEE HOW MANY COMMUNITY  MEMBERS CAME TO SEE ME GET SWORN IN.

PEOPLE COMMENTING THAT THEY HAD THE SAME FEELINGS THEY  FELT WHEN THEY WATCHED OBAMA GET INTO OFFICE, WHICH WAS  LIKE, WHOA, CAN'T EVEN FATHOM THAT FOR MYSELF, BUT  REPRESENTATION MATTERS.

IT REALLY, REALLY DOES.

SO TO BE IN, YOU KNOW, IN THE LINE OF GREATS LIKE DR. LENTON  MALLORY AND OTHERS THAT HAVE THE BEEN FIRST IN OUR STATE,  IT IS REALLY AN HONOR BUT I AM REALLY WEIGHED DOWN BY JUST  WANTING TO DO A GOOD JOB.

>> Lou: NOW, EARLIER THIS  MONTH, YOU AND COUNCILOR RENEE GROUT SPONSORED A BILL TO  CREATE A WORKING GROUP TO REIMAGINE THE CITY'S MOTEL  VOUCHER PROGRAM.

HOW EXACTLY DOES THAT PROGRAM  WORK NOW AND WHAT PROBLEMS DO YOU SEE THAT YOU WERE HOPING  TO ADDRESS?

>> Rogers: SURE.

I THINK RIGHT NOW WE DON'T -- WE HAVE MOTEL VOUCHERS FOR  EMERGENCY SITUATIONS FOR INDIVIDUALS OR FAMILIES WHO  ARE EXPERIENCING SOME TRAUMA.

SO, DV, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE KIND  OF SITUATIONS, UNSHELTERED, FOLKS WHO ARE JUST HAVING A GAP.

AND SO THAT IS TYPICALLY WHAT MOST OF OUR VOUCHERS, HOTEL  VOUCHERS, ARE USED FOR.

BUT WHAT I DON'T SEE IS MORE  COLLABORATION AMONG NOT ONLY CITY DEPARTMENTS BUT ALSO THE  HOTELIERS THAT ARE ACCEPTING THOSE VOUCHERS, MAKING SURE WE  TAKE THEIR NEEDS INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN WE ARE  HOUSING FOLKS THAT ARE IN TRAUMA.

IT COULD POTENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, CAUSE SOME ISSUES FOR  SOME OF THE HOTELIERS, WE WANT TO BRING A TEAM TOGETHER,  PEOPLE WHO HAVE LIVED THE EXPERIENCE WHO USED THE  VOUCHERS SYSTEM, PEOPLE WHO HAVE ADMINISTERED THE VOUCHERS  AND HOTELIERS WHO CAN COME TOGETHER AND REALLY TALK ABOUT  HOW TO MAKE THAT A BETTER PROCESS FOR FOLKS.

SO THAT WE CAN MAXIMIZE THE DOLLARS THAT WE HAVE FOR THAT  WHICH IS QUITE A BIT.

I WANT TO SAY WE HAVE OVER  FIVE MILLION FOR MOTEL VOUCHERS SO WE WANT TO MAKE  SURE WE USE THEM IN THE RIGHT WAY TO HELP PEOPLE OVER THE  GAP BUT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THINGS THAT HOTELIERS ARE  HAVING TO DEAL WITH TOO.

>> Lou: NOW HOMELESSNESS, OF  COURSE, IS A SIGNIFICANT ISSUE THAT WE HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH  THAT THAT PROGRAM TIES INTO A BIT TOO.

LAST MONTH YOU TALKED ABOUT REQUEST THAT YOU MADE TO THE  CITY ATTORNEY FOR A SCRIPT FOR CITY EMPLOYEES WHEN DEALING  WITH HOMELESS ENCAMPMENTS ON CITY PROPERTY.

HAVE YOU RECEIVED THAT SCRIPT YET?

>> Rogers: YES, WE DID.

IT TOOK ABOUT TWO WEEKS OR SO,  TWO-AND-A-HALF WEEKS AND ACTUALLY IT WAS A SCRIPT THEY  MENTION THE HAD ALREADY EXISTED.

SO IT WAS MORE LIKE, WELL JUST -- WHAT I WAS ASKING FOR  WAS REALLY A PROCESS, A WRITTEN PROCESS OF HOW WE ARE  RESPONDING THAT IS NOT JUST FOR STAFF BUT ALSO SO  COMMUNITY KNOWS THE EXPECTATIONS.

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHERE PEOPLE CAN CAMP,  WITH OUR ENCAMPMENTS.

AND SO, FOR ME IT IS ABOUT  KNOWING THAT WE HAVE AN ACTUAL DEFINED PROCESS THAT ALL OF  OUR DEPARTMENTS ARE FOLLOWING AND I THINK THAT LINE OF  QUESTIONS LED US THERE.

I DON'T THINK WE HAD IT  BEFORE.

AND SO I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE  IS I WANT TO SEE A MORE HUMANE, DIGNIFIED RESPONSE TO  HOW WE DEAL WITH UNSHELTERED FOLKS.

BOTTOM LINE WE DON'T HAVE A LOT OF PLACES FOR FOLKS TO GO  IF THEY DO NOT WANT TO BE IN A SHELTER AND THAT IS WHAT WE  NEED TO -- WE NEED TO WORK ON IS THE WHOLE CONTINUUM,  MEETING PEOPLE WHERE THEY ARE, GETTING THEM STABLE TO BE ABLE  TO BE HOUSED I THINK IS WHAT WE ARE MISSING.

YES, I DID GET THAT INFORMATION, REVIEWING OVER  JUST WHAT THE PROCESS IS, HOW MANY DEPARTMENTS ARE INVOLVED  IN THAT PROCESS.

IT IS HARD TO ALIGN WITH FIVE  DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS DOING THE SAME KIND OF WORK.

I AM EXCITED THAT WE ARE MOVING TOWARDS A MORE DEFINED  PROCESS.

>> Lou: ARE SATISFIED WITH THE  SCRIPT ITSELF AND IS THERE A PLACE THAT THE PUBLIC CAN SEE  IT?

>> Rogers: YEAH, ACTUALLY, I  HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT GETTING IT ON LINE.

I WILL ABSOLUTELY DO THAT.

I AM JUST KIND OF READING IT  FOR MYSELF AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.

YOU KNOW, I THINK FOR THE SCRIPTING, FOR MYSELF, I DON'T  THINK IT IS -- I DON'T PERSONALLY THINK IT IS ENOUGH.

LAUREN KEEFE, OUR CITY ATTORNEY, TALKED ABOUT THINGS  LIKE GETTING PEOPLE STORAGE BINS, SO THAT WE CAN STORE  THEIR THINGS SO THEY DON'T LOSE PRECIOUS BELONGINGS LIKE  DRIVER'S LICENSES, BIRTH CERTIFICATES, THINGS LIKE  THAT.

I DIDN'T SEE THAT IN THE  SCRIPT SO I DON'T FEEL CONFIDENT THAT WE ARE ACTUALLY  DOING THAT.

I THINK WHEN NEED TO FLUSH OUT  A COUPLE DETAILS FIRST AND THEN I WOULD ABSOLUTELY LOVE  TO GET THAT OUT TO COMMUNITIES, THEN WE ALL KNOW  WHAT TO EXPECT.

>> Lou: HOW DOES IT FIT WITH  THE INJUNCTION THAT THE CITY IS FACING RIGHT NOW, TOO, TIED  TO THE LAWSUIT AFTER THE CLEARING OF CORONADO PARK?

>> Rogers: I KNOW WE WERE WAITING ON MORE CLARIFICATION  OF WHAT THE JUDGMENT FROM AS FAR AS YOU NEED A PLACE TO GO  BEFORE YOU CLEAR THEM.

I FELT PRETTY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT  THAT MEANT.

IT MEANS IF YOU MOVE SOMEONE  FROM A PLACE YOU NEED TO HAVE ANOTHER PLACE FOR THEM TO GO.

SO, WITH THE INJUNCTION THAT IS STILL IN PLACE, AND SO WE  STILL NEED TO RESPOND, THOUGH, AND SO WE JUST NEED TO MAKE  SURE THAT OUR RESPONSE IS HUMANE AND DIGNIFIED AND WE  HAVE AN ACTUAL PLACE TO GO, TO SEND PEOPLE.

OUR CAPACITY, I THINK THAT IS THE BIGGEST THING THE PUBLIC  NEEDS TO KNOW.

THE CITY'S CAPACITY IS BASED  ON THE CONTRACTORS WE HIRE TO DO THE WORK AND NOW THE CITY  PRETTY MUCH HAS ONE CONTRACTOR FOR ALL OF HOMELESSNESS.

SO MY WORK IS FOCUSED ON TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE OF OTHER  PROVIDERS TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN BID FOR THESE JOBS AT THE  CITY AND ACTUALLY HELP US, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THAT IS A  BARRIER.

I AM TALKING TO A LOT OF OUR  PROVIDERS IN OUR DISTRICTS AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE TECHNICAL  ASSISTANCE TO BE ABLE TO GO AFTER THE BIG RFP'S THAT THE  CITY PUTS OUT FOR HOMELESSNESS.

SO, WE HAVE TO DO BETTER AT GETTING FOLKS WHO ARE ALREADY  DOING WORK, WHO DON'T GET CITY FUNDING, ACCESS TO THAT BY  TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE SO THEY CAN HELP US DO THIS WORK.

>> Lou: DURING LAST FALL'S RACE, YOU CAMPAIGNED ON  INTRODUCING A PILOT UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME PROGRAM TO  ADDRESS POVERTY IN THE CITY.

WHAT EXACTLY WOULD THIS  PROGRAM LOOK LIKE AND HAVE YOU HAD ANY PROGRESS INTRODUCING  IT INTO COUNCIL?

>> Rogers: WE HAVEN'T  INTRODUCED IT YET.

THE GREAT THING IS WE ALREADY  HAD THE GROUND WORK LAYED FOR THIS.

PREVIOUSLY IN MY WORK WITH CANNABIS EQUITY, ACTUALLY  LEGISLATION THAT COUNCIL DID PASS AT THE END OF LAST YEAR,  SAID WE COULD USE TAX REVENUE FROM CANNABIS FOR A PILOT FOR  UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME.

THAT GROUNDWORK IS ALREADY  LAYED.

RIGHT NOW I AM PULLING  TOGETHER FOLKS.

LIKE WE HAVE ALBUQUERQUE FOR  GUARANTEED BASIC INCOME THAT I AM GOING TO BE ENGAGING.

I AM RESEARCHING WHETHER PILOTS HAVE ALREADY BEEN DONE  IN OUR STATE SO WE CAN PUT TOGETHER A REALLY GOOD PILOT  FOR ALBUQUERQUE.

WHAT I AM LOOKING AT IS TO BE  SMART AND HAVE ALIGNMENT WITH OTHER ISSUES IN THE CITY  SPECIFICALLY HIRING FOR LIKE POLICE, FRONT LINE  FIREFIGHTERS, BUS DRIVERS, IS DOING IT FOR STUDENTS WHO ARE  ENROLLED AT CNM IN THESE PROGRAMS.

SO, SAYING, HEY, LIKE YOU'RE ALREADY DOING SOMETHING TO  FURTHER YOUR LIFE, YOUR CAREER, GIVE YOU LITTLE BASIC  INCOME TO HELP YOU GET OVER THAT HUMP IN THE HOPES THAT  YOU COME WORK FOR US AFTER YOU GRADUATE.

SO THAT IS KIND OF WHAT I AM FLOATING AROUND WITH  COMMUNITIES TO SEE HOW THAT WOULD FLUSH OUT.

BUT I THINK THAT WOULD BE A REALLY GREAT WAY FOR US TO DO  TWO THINGS AT THE SAME TIME, WHERE WE ARE HELPING FOLKS  OVER THE HUMP BUT HOPEFULLY GETTING SOME MORE HIRES INTO  OUR TOUGH-TO-FILL JOBS AT THE CITY.

I AM EXCITED ABOUT THAT.

WE ARE GOING TO BE HAVING SOME  STRATEGY SESSIONS AROUND POVERTY AND AROUND THIS  UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME IN MARCH SO THOSE DATES ARE  ALREADY ON THE WEBSITE.

YOU CAN GO TO THESE, YOU CAN  RSVP TO COME AND HELP GIVE US INPUT ABOUT THAT.

BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO COME UP WITH ALL THIS MYSELF.

I WANT TO BE FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY HELPING ME DIVINE  AND DECIDE ON THESE PLANS BEFORE WE MOVE FORWARD.

>> Lou: I WANT TO ASK A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FEDERAL  INVESTIGATION INTO THE APD'S DWI UNIT.

ACCORDING TO CITY DESK ABQ, APD'S INTERNAL INVESTIGATION  HAS EXPANDED TO INCLUDE TWO INTERNAL AFFAIRS OFFICERS, ONE  LIEUTENANT WITHIN THE INTERNAL AFFAIRS DEPARTMENT.

SO THAT IS TWO MEMBERS OF THAT DEPARTMENT.

THAT MAKES SEVEN OFFICERS UNDER INVESTIGATION OVERALL.

WHEN THE STORY FIRST BROKE A FEW WEEKS, YOU AND OTHERS ON  THE COUNCIL EXPRESSED FRUSTRATION WITH HOW YOU FOUND  OUT ABOUT IT.

A BIT OF A LACK OF  COMMUNICATION FROM THE KELLER ADMINISTRATION.

SINCE ITS BROKEN, HAS THAT COMMUNICATION GOTTEN ANY  BETTER?

ARE YOU MORE SATISFIED AS  THESE NEW DEVELOPMENTS COME OUT?

>> Rogers: YEAH, I THINK ALL OF US WERE SHOCKED THAT WE  DIDN'T AT LEAST GET A COURTESY CALL SOMETHING LIKE THIS WAS  HAPPENING.

I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS AN  INVESTIGATION HAPPENING AND THEY CAN'T KIND OF DIVULGE ALL  OF THOSE FOR THE INVESTIGATIVE PURPOSES, BUT AT LEAST A HEADS  UP WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE SO WE ARE NOT FIELDING THESE CALLS,  HEY, DID YOU HEAR ABOUT APD.

AND I AM SAYING, WHAT, WHAT  HAPPENED?

AND HAVING TO GO LOOK ON THE  NEWS TO FIND IT OUT.

SO THAT IS JUST NEVER A GOOD  WAY TO FIND SOMETHING OUT LIKE THAT.

WE DON'T LIKE BEING BLINDSIDED JUST LIKE THE ADMINISTRATION  DOESN'T LIKE BEING BLINDSIDED.

SO I THINK SINCE THAT HAPPENED  WE HAVE A LOT MORE COMMUNICATION WITH APD  REGARDING WHAT IS HAPPENING AND THE FACT THEY ARE GOING TO  LAUNCH AN INTERNAL INVESTIGATION.

WHICH OUR QUESTIONS WERE, WELL, WHEN YOU FOUND OUT ABOUT  THIS HOWEVER LONG AGO, WHY DIDN'T THE INTERNAL  INVESTIGATION START THEN?

NOT WHEN IT HIT THE NEWS?

SO, I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT  HAPPENED.

WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT  PROCESSES TO MAKE SURE -- POLICIES, PROCEDURES, TO MAKE  SURE IT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

SO, I AM COMMITTED TO WORKING  WITH APD AND FBI TO MAKE SURE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN AND  THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO LOOK AT OUR PROCESSES.

I AM ALSO CALLING ON THE STATE TO ALSO, LET'S THINK ABOUT  THIS ON A BIGGER SCALE.

NOT JUST DWI CASES.

I AM ALSO CONCERNED WITH DOMESTIC VIOLENCE CASES AND  FAILURE TO APPEAR ACROSS THE WHOLE SPECTRUM.

NOT JUST DWI'S.

SO I WOULD LIKE TO CALL FOR  THE STATE TO PUT TOGETHER AN ACTUAL STATE-WIDE DATA BASE,  WHERE ALL OF THE ENTITIES ACTUALLY CAN TALK TO EACH  OTHER AND NOT HAVE DIFFERENT SYSTEMS THAT DON'T TALK TO  EACH OTHER.

I THINK THAT IS GOING TO HELP  US IN A LOT OF AREAS AND I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE STATE  WORK WITH US TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

IN THE INTERIM, WHILE WE HAVE THE NEXT SESSION, NEXT YEAR,  WE CAN COME UP WITH A PROCESS AND A PLAN TO DO THAT.

I AM GOING TO BE CALLING THE STATE TO DO THAT AND WORKING  WITH COUNTY AND CITY ON SOME DIFFERENT PROGRAMS.

I AM LOOKING AT ONE THAT WE ARE LOOKING AT CALLED UNITE  US, THAT WOULD DO THAT, WOULD HELP US COMMUNICATE ACROSS ALL  OF THE SYSTEMS.

WE DID IT IN HEALTHCARE.

I HAVE A HEALTHCARE BACKGROUND.

WITH AFFORDABLE CARE ACT MANDATED THAT WE HAVE  ELECTRONIC MEDICAL RECORDS, AND THAT ALL SYSTEMS HAD TO  TALK TO EACH OTHER.

SO THAT PATIENTS HAD WHAT THEY  NEEDED.

SAME HERE.

WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT INFORMATION TO BE ABLE TO  DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFE.

>> Lou: HOW HAS THE SITUATION, IN YOUR ESTIMATION, AFFECTED  THE PUBLIC TRUST IN POLICE, ESPECIALLY IN DISTRICT 6 WHERE  POLICE HAVE A HISTORICALLY STRAINED RELATIONSHIP WITH THE  PUBLIC?

>> Rogers: IT DEFINITELY SET  US BACK.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY  DOING WORK WITH TRYING TO STRENGTHEN THOSE RELATIONSHIPS  WITH THE BLACK COMMUNITY AND POLICE, I THINK THIS  DEFINITELY -- THE TRUST HAS BEEN LOST.

I THINK WE WERE MAKING SOME STRIDES BUT THIS DEFINITELY  SET US BACK.

JUST NO OTHER WAY TO SAY IT.

IT IS THE TRUTH.

SO, NOW WE HAVE TO BE MORE  TRANSPARENT THAN WE ARE USED TO AND WE HAVE TO BE OPEN AND  NOT BE AFRAID TO BE TRANSPARENT ABOUT WHAT WE NEED  TO DO TO MAKE THINGS BETTER.

>> Lou: WE'LL KEEP AN EYE ON  THAT STORY, OF COURSE.

BEYOND WHAT WE HAVE DISCUSSED  ALREADY, WHAT ARE YOUR MAIN PRIORITIES FOR THE REST OF  YOUR TERM AS YOU FINISH UP YOUR FIRST TERM OR START YOUR  FIRST TERM REALLY.

>> Rogers: I THINK FOR ME THE  PRIORITIES ARE ALIGNING THE CITY'S BUDGET WITH THE  COMMUNITY'S PRIORITIES.

MY DISTRICT DESPERATELY NEEDS  AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

I WANT TO BE VERY SPECIFIC  ABOUT WHAT I MEAN BY AFFORDABLE HOUSING, RIGHT?

BECAUSE WHAT IS AFFORDABLE FOR ME AND WHAT IS AFFORDABLE FOR  YOU COULD BE DIFFERENT.

SO WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT  HOUSING ON THE ENTIRE INCOME SPECTRUM.

IN MY DISTRICT WE NEED LOW INCOME HOUSING AND EVEN SOME  PARTS OF MY DISTRICT WE NEED OTHER HOUSING PRICE POINTS.

SO, FOR ME I REALLY WANT TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO IN OUR  DISTRICT TO ACTUALLY MEET THAT GAP, NOT JUST FOR LOW INCOME  OR WHAT WE CALL AFFORDABLE, BUT FOR FOLKS WHO CAN AFFORD  MORE.

BECAUSE WHAT IT IS DOING, IF  YOU CAN AFFORD A MILLION DOLLAR HOUSE, IT IS HARD TO  FIND ONE.

AND THEN YOU'RE GOING TO HERE  AND THAT IS PUSHING EVERYBODY BACK DOWN THE LINE.

SO WE NEED HOUSING ON ALL SPECTRUMS.

SO I AM INTERESTED IN WORKING -- WE HAD SOME  DEVELOPERS THAT PURCHASED THE TWO BIG TALL BUILDINGS, THE  OLD BANK BUILDING ON SAN MATEO AND CENTRAL FOR HOUSING.

THEY WANT TO DO MARKET RATE AND AFFORDABLE.

I AM EXCITED TO SEE ABOUT THAT.

WE HAVE FOOD INSECURITIES THAT WE NEED TO TACKLE RIGHT AWAY.

I AM LOOKING AT WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH WALMART.

CAN WE BUY THE WALMART THAT CLOSED.

WE ARE LOOKING AT WALGREEN'S ACROSS THE STREET TO SEE IF WE  CAN PURCHASE THAT TO TRY TO GET FRESH FOOD THERE AS SOON  AS POSSIBLE, EITHER WITH OUR FARMERS, THROUGH A FARMERS  MARKET, SO THEY CAN BE OUT ALL WEEK NOT JUST ON THE WEEKENDS.

OUR FARMERS ARE STILL SAYING THEY HAVE A LOT OF WASTE.

LET'S FIX THAT AND GET FOOD THERE IMMEDIATELY.

FOOD DESERT, HOUSING, PUBLIC SAFETY IS A REALLY BIG ONE AND  ENCAMPMENTS IN MY DISTRICT.

WE HAVE TO HAVE A STABILITY  SITE AND WE DON'T.

WE DON'T.

GATEWAY IS SUPPOSED TO BE THAT BUT AGAIN IF WE ONLY HAVE ONE  CONTRACTOR WHO IS HANDLING ALL OF HOMELESSNESS FOR THE CITY  OF ALBUQUERQUE, THAT IS WHY WE CAN'T DO MORE AT THE GATEWAY  BECAUSE THAT PARTICULAR CONTRACTOR CAN'T HANDLE  ANYMORE.

SO, WE HAVE TO DO -- I AM  FOCUSED ON WHO ELSE IN THE COMMUNITY CAN HELP DO THIS  WORK AND HOW CAN I GET SOME TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE TO THEM  TO BE ABLE TO JUST RESPOND TO THOSE REQUESTS THAT WE HAVE  FOR HELP, ESPECIALLY WITH HOMELESSNESS.

I REALLY WANT TO SAY TO OUR COMMUNITY, TOO, THAT WE NEED  EVERYONE TO COME TO THE TABLE TO COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS THAT  WE DON'T ALL HAVE TO AGREE ON BUT LETS TALK ABOUT CONSENSUS.

I DON'T LOVE IT BUT I CAN LIVE WITH IT BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME  TOUGH THINGS FACING OUR COMMUNITY AND WE HAVE TO WORK  TOGETHER.

AND A STABILITY SITE IS SOMETHING WE REALLY NEED AND  HERE ESPECIALLY IN DISTRICT 6.

>> Lou: CITY COUNCILOR NICHOLE  ROGERS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND FOR BEING HERE  ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

>> Rogers: THANK YOU.

>> AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT EDUCATION IS NOT SOMETHING  THAT SOMEONE IS MAKING UP.

IT HAS AN EVIDENCE BASE BEHIND  IT.

THE CDC HAS PROVEN THAT THIS  IS A PRIMARY PREVENTION MEASURE TO END SEXUAL VIOLENCE  IN OUR SOCIETY AND SO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PROVIDING AGE  APPROPRIATE EDUCATION FROM A VERY EARLY AGE AND THEN AS  YOUNG PEOPLE MATURE AND GET OLDER, EVOLVING THAT  CONVERSATION TO INCLUDE HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS AND  SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS.

>> Lou: MY INTERVIEW WITH  REPRESENTATIVE LIZ THOMSON AND ADVOCATE ALEXANDRIA TAYLOR  WILL AIR IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES.

THE TWO-WEEK TRIAL OF ARMORER  HANNAH GUTIERREZ-REED IS UNDERWAY AND THE COUNTRY'S  EYES ARE FOCUSED ON SANTA FE.

GUTIERREZ-REED IS CHARGED WITH  INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER IN THE FATAL SHOOTING OF  CINEMATOGRAPHER HALYNA HUTCHINS AS WELL AS EVIDENCE  TAMPERING.

SHE COULD FACE UP TO THREE  YEARS IN PRISON IF CONVICTED ON BOTH COUNTS.

NUMEROUS QUESTIONS REMAIN IN THIS CASE.

CHIEF AMONG THEM BEING WHO BROUGHT LIVE AMMUNITION ON TO  THE SET.

TO DISCUSS ALL OF THIS AND  MORE, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR HOSTS A VIRTUAL  DISCUSSION WITH ATTORNEY AHMAD ASSED AND JOURNALIST JULIA  GOLDBERG.

>> Jeff: THANK YOU, LOU.

JOINING US ON SCREEN TODAY ARE JULIA GOLDBERG, MY FORMER  COLLEAGUE AT THE SANTA FE REPORTER, AND ATTORNEY AHMAD  ASSED.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE  TODAY.

AS LOU MENTIONED, THE TRIAL  FOR HANNAH GUTIERREZ-REED, THE ARMORER FOR THE FILM RUST HAS  BEGUN.

IT IS THE FIRST TIME A JURY  WILL WEIGH IN ON THE DEADLY SHOOTING OF CINEMATOGRAPHER  HALYNA HUTCHINS.

JULIA, BRIEFLY AS YOU CAN, WHY  DID IT TAKE MORE THAN TWO YEARS TO GET TO THIS POINT AND  WHAT ARE THE BIG QUESTIONS AT THE CENTER OF THIS TRIAL?

>> Goldberg: WELL, I'LL START WITH THE SECOND FIRST.

THE BIG QUESTION IS HOW DID LIVE AMMO GET ON TO THE RUST  SET AND WHO SHOULD BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR LIVE AMMO IN  THE GUN THAT WAS FIRED THAT KILLED CINEMATOGRAPHER HALYNA  HUTCHINS.

I THINK WHY IT TOOK SO LONG  HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE JUDICIAL PROCESS AS IT IS  PLAYED OUT.

THE FIRST JUDICIAL DISTRICT  ATTORNEY'S OFFICE HAS CHANGED COUNSEL IN THE COURSE OF CASE.

THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF MOTIONS.

THERE HAS BEEN A MOTION TO DISMISS.

THERE HAS BEEN PLEA DEALS.

THERE HAS BEEN JUST ABOUT  EVERYTHING THAT COULD HAPPEN IN A CASE SEEMS TO HAVE  HAPPENED IN THIS CASE AND IT HAS TAKEN THIS LONG TO BRING  THE FIRST CASE TO TRIAL.

I AM VERY CURIOUS ABOUT THE  STRATEGY OF BRINGING HANNAH GUTIERREZ TO TRIAL IN ADVANCE  OF ALEC BALDWIN.

I AM WONDERING IF WE SORT OF  GET A PREVIEW OF THAT CASE AND WHETHER OR NOT THAT HURTS  PROSECUTORS, BUT I THINK PROBABLY AHMAD IS A BETTER  PERSON TO ANSWER THAT THAN ME.

>> Jeff: I AM CURIOUS ABOUT  THE STRATEGY TOO.

WE'LL CERTAINLY GET THERE IN A  MOMENT, BUT LET'S BREAK DOWN THE CASE A LITTLE BIT AGAINST  GUTIERREZ-REED.

SHE HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH  INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER AND TAMPERING WITH EVIDENCE.

AHMAD, LET'S TAKE THEM ONE AT A TIME AND AS QUICKLY AS WE  CAN.

INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER IS  ONE OF THOSE CRIMES THAT MAKES A LOT OF PEOPLE A BIT NERVOUS.

WHAT ARE THE ELEMENTS PROSECUTORS MUST PROVE AND HOW  DOES INTENT PLAY INTO THIS ONE.

>> Assed: WELL, THERE ARE TWO THEORIES WITH REGARDS TO  INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER.

AND YOU KNOW NORMALLY PEOPLE  TRADITIONALLY WANT TO AFFILIATE A HOMICIDE CASE OR A  CHARGE OR MURDER WITH SOME FORM OF INTENT.

THIS IS NOT A SPECIFIC INTENT CRIME AND IT CERTAINLY IS NOT  A STRICT LIABILITY.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE  INTENT IN THE TRADITIONAL NOTION THAT WE UNDERSTAND.

GENERALLY SPEAKING, YOU NEED NEGLIGENCE AS A STANDARD  ASSOCIATED WITH THE MAIN COUNT, THE FIRST COUNT.

IN THE ALTERNATIVE IT IS MORE OF A RECKLESS STANDARD.

ESSENTIALLY, GENERAL INTENT, IF YOU WILL, AND ELEMENTS  BASICALLY IN THE FIRST CHARGE HAVE TO DO WITH NEGLIGENT USE  OF A DEADLY WEAPON.

SOME REFER TO IT AS LIKE THE  MISDEMEANOR MANSLAUGHTER RULE.

AND THEN THE SECOND ONE  REQUIRES A RECKLESS OR WILLFUL DISREGARD FOR THE SAFETY OF  OTHERS, THE DUE CAUTION AND CIRCUMSPECTION COMPONENT OF  THE SECOND ALTERNATIVE TO INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER.

SO, DON'T THINK OF INTENT IN THE SAME WAY BUT THERE IS A  GENERAL INTENT REQUIRED AND THOSE ARE SHOWN BY WAY OF  EITHER NEGLIGENCE OR RECKLESS BEHAVIOR.

>> Jeff: GOT YOU.

SO A LITTLE BIT OF A VAGUER  STANDARD.

LET'S MOVE TO THAT EVIDENCE  TAMPERING CHARGE.

THAT WAS A BIT MORE  STRAIGHTFORWARD BUT IN THIS CASE THERE IS A BIT OF A  WRINKLE ON THAT ONE, RIGHT?

>> Assed: AT THE END OF THE  DAY, NO TESTING HAS BEEN DONE.

THE ELEMENTS ARE REQUIRED THAT  THESE ARE ESSENTIALLY NARCOTICS, ACTUALLY, SPEAKING  WITH REGARDS TO THE SPECIFIC CHARGE AGAINST  MS. GUTIERREZ-REED.

THEY HAVE TO BE NARCOTICS AND  SHE HAS TO HAVE DONE THEM A WAY, SHE HAS TO BASICALLY HAVE  GIVEN OFF THE SO-CALLED BAG OF DRUGS IN ORDER TO EVENT OR  EVADE OR HIDE THE EVIDENCE SO THAT A FUTURE PROSECUTION  AGAINST HER WOULD NOT BE FORTHCOMING.

THERE IS GOING TO BE SOME DIFFICULTY AS WE TALKED  FURTHER WITH REGARDS TO THE STATE'S ABILITY, I THINK, TO  PROVE THAT CASE.

>> Jeff: LET'S TALK ABOUT  WORKPLACE SAFETY A LITTLE BIT.

THAT IS AN ISSUE THAT HAS COME  UP AGAIN AND AGAIN IN THIS CASE.

IN APRIL OF '22, AN OSHA REPORT FOUND THAT THE RUSH  PRODUCTION VIOLATED NUMEROUS INDUSTRY SAFETY PROTOCOLS  INCLUDING DOCUMENTED GUN SAFETY COMPLAINTS.

PROSECUTORS TRIED TO KEEP JURORS FROM SEEING THIS REPORT  BUT THE JUDGE SHOT DOWN THAT REQUEST.

AHMAD, LET'S STAY WITH YOU ON THIS ONE.

HOW WILL THAT REPORT WEIGH ON A JURY WHEN CONSIDERING THE  CHARGES?

>> Assed: AS I UNDERSTAND IT,  THE JUDGE'S RULING WITH REGARDS TO THAT REPORT, AND IT  WILL BE FAVORABLE TO THE DEFENDANT, TO  MS. GUTIERREZ-REED AS WE MOVE FORWARD TO IT, WILL BE PLAYED  BEFORE THE JURY IN THE COURSE OF THE EXPERT TESTIMONY.

EXPERTS CAN RELY ON HEARSAY.

THEY CAN RELY ON OUTSIDE  INFORMATION IN RENDERING OPINIONS THAT THEY SHARE WITH  THE JURY TO HELP THE JURY UNRAVEL AND UNDERSTAND THE  CIRCUMSTANCES.

THAT OSHA FINDING OF THE SCENE  AND SET BEING A CHAOTIC SET FROM THE GET-GO IS GOING TO  PLAY A VERY IMPORTANT ROLE IN THIS IDEA THAT  MS. GUTIERREZ-REED COULD NOT HAVE PERFORMED HER FUNCTIONS  AS A WEAPONS SPECIALIST BECAUSE SHE LACKED THE CONTROL  OF A VERY, VERY CHAOTIC SET WHICH IS MORE IN CONTROL OF  MANAGEMENT RATHER THAN HER OWN PARTICULAR DUTIES.

>> Jeff: JULIA, LET'S TALK ABOUT WORKPLACE SAFETY OUTSIDE  THE CONTEXT OF A CRIMINAL TRIAL FOR A SECOND.

THIS SHOOTING HAS SPARKED A CONVERSATION, I THINK, ABOUT  SAFETY STANDARDS IN FILM PRODUCTIONS HERE IN NEW MEXICO  AS WELL AS HOLLYWOOD IN GENERAL.

IS THAT YOUR SENSE?

HAS THIS BEEN A CONVERSATION  STARTER IN THAT WAY?

>> Goldberg: YES AND NO, JEFF.

I THINK NOT AS MUCH AS IT MIGHT HAVE SEEMED IN THE  IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH.

AND I WOULD ATTRIBUTE THAT TO  A FEW THINGS.

ONE, I THINK THE WRITER AND  ACTORS STRIKE KIND OF TOOK THE WIND OUT OF THIS BEING THE  CENTRAL WAY IN WHICH PEOPLE WERE THINKING ABOUT THE  CONDITIONS FOR PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THIS INDUSTRY.

AND THEN, AS YOU KNOW, AS I ASSUME YOU KNOW, OUR ELECTED  OFFICIALS WERE NOT VERY LOUD ABOUT THE RUST INCIDENT.

THERE WERE TWO BILLS INTRODUCED IN 2023 THAT WOULD  HAVE REQUIRED SOME KIND OF GUN SAFETY TRAINING FOR PEOPLE ON  SET.

THEY BOTH DIED IN THE SESSION.

THEY DIDN'T GET MUCH OF A HEARING.

WE HAVEN'T HEARD MUCH FROM THE STATE FILM OFFICE.

HAVEN'T HEARD MUCH FROM THE GOVERNOR.

WE HAVEN'T HEARD MUCH FROM THE FILM OFFICE.

CALIFORNIA'S GOVERNOR DID SIGN A FAIRLY SWEEPING SAFETY BILL,  BUT WE HAVEN'T REALLY -- NO ONE MADE IT A PRIORITY IN NEW  MEXICO THAT I HAVE SEEN.

>> Jeff: FOR JUST A MOMENT  HERE AT THE END OF THIS SEGMENT, AHMAD, LET'S PIVOT TO  BALDWIN JUST A BIT.

OF COURSE, CHARGES AGAINST HIM  WERE DISMISSED LAST APRIL, BUT SPECIAL PROSECUTORS KARI  MORRISEY AND JASON LEWIS KEPT PUSHING.

A GRAND JURY INDICTED HIM ALSO ON THE CHARGE OF INVOLUNTARY  MANSLAUGHTER LAST MONTH.

HOW CAN THE OUTCOME OF THE  GUTIERREZ-REED TRIAL IMPACT THE PROSECUTION AGAINST ALEC  BALDWIN?

>> Assed: I THINK IN EITHER  CONTEXT, THE ALEC BALDWIN TEAM  AND ALEC BALDWIN WIN.

THEY HAVE A VAST ADVANTAGE  OVER SEEING THE ROAD MAP ESSENTIALLY TO THEIR OWN CASE  BY VIEWING THE CASE AGAINST MS. GUTIERREZ-REED.

IF SHE GETS CONVICTED I THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE THIS IDEA  THAT RESPONSIBILITY WAS LAID BY THE JURY TO THE PROPER  PERSON AND THAT IT SHOULD END THERE.

IF SHE IS ACQUITTED, IT WEAKENS THE PROSECUTION  AGAINST MR. BALDWIN IN A FUTURE TRIAL.

IN BOTH INSTANCES, AND THE IDEA THAT IT IS BEING TRIED  BEFORE HIS, ARE ALL BENEFITS TO THE BALDWIN TEAM AND  MR. BALDWIN.

>> Jeff: REALLY QUICKLY, ONE  LAST QUESTION ON THIS.

I WOULD LIKE TO KIND OF CLEAVE  APART THE TWO CASES A LITTLE BIT.

IN THE CASE OF BALDWIN HE WAS THE ONE HOLDING THE GUN AT THE  TIME THAT MS. HUTCHINS WAS SHOT.

HANNAH GUTIERREZ-REED WAS NOT.

YET THEY ARE CHARGED WITH THE  SAME CRIME.

HOW DO WE MAKE HEADS ARE TAILS  OF THAT?

>> Assed: BY THE WAY, THERE IS  A JURY INSTRUCTION WITH REGARD TO CAUSATION THAT HAS BEEN  PROPOSED BY THE DEFENSE TEAM IN TERMS OF THIS CASE  GUTIERREZ-REED.

THE CASE AGAINST  MS. GUTIERREZ-REED HAS TO DO WITH HER HANDLING OVERALL.

THE IDEA THAT SHE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR HANDLING THAT  DANGEROUS WEAPON AND IN SO DOING, EITHER ACTED OR OMITTED  TO ACT IN A WAY THAT KEPT EVERYBODY SAFE AND ENSURED  THAT THAT PROP, ONCE GIVEN TO THE CHAIN OF PEOPLE,  ULTIMATELY TO MR. BALDWIN, SHOULD HAVE BEEN A PROP THAT  WAS SAFE TO USE.

IN TERMS OF MR. BALDWIN, HE IS  DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THE ACTUAL SHOOTING.

HE IS THE ONE THAT HANDLED THE WEAPON ITSELF UPON THE  SHOOTING THAT RESULTED IN THE DEATH OF MS. HUTCHINS.

SO DISTINCT FEATURES BUT THERE IS AN ELEMENT THAT IS SHARED  AT SOME POINT.

>> Goldberg: BALDWIN'S LAWYERS  INDICATED LAST WEEK THAT THEY ARE GOING TO ARGUE AGAINST HIM  BEING HELD CULPABLE AS A PRODUCER IN ANY WAY, RIGHT?

OKAY.

>> Assed: RIGHT.

AND I THINK THE PRODUCER ASPECT OF IT, I THINK, IT HAS  BEEN OVERPLAYED WITH REGARDS TO THE CHARGE HERE.

THERE IS A NUMBER OF REASONS WHY SOMEBODY WOULD BE A  PRODUCER AND DOESN'T NECESSARILY TRANSLATE INTO THE  TYPE OF DUTY OR NEGLIGENCE THAT IS ACCUSED OF,  SPECIFICALLY HANDLING THE WEAPON AND THE WAY THAT IT WAS  SHOT.

I THINK MORE SPECIFICALLY, I  THINK THE STATEMENT ABOUT PULLING THE TRIGGER, NOT  PULLING THE TRIGGER, IS GOING TO PLAY THE BIGGER ROLE AND  THAT ONLY COME INTO PLAY WITH REGARDS TO MR. BALDWIN'S  INTERVIEW AND RELEASING THAT INFORMATION, WHICH I THINK WAS  A BIG MISTAKE.

>> Jeff: INTERESTING THAT  PRODUCER BIT IN THE CIVIL CONTEXT MAY BE LESS SO IN THE  CRIMINAL.

THANKS AGAIN TO YOU TWO.

WE'LL RETURN TO THIS GROUP IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES TO DISCUSS  THE CASE MORE DEEPLY AGAINST ALEC BALDWIN AND THE MEDIA  CIRCUS SURROUNDING IT ALL.

>> Goldberg: I THINK OUR  COUNTRY'S FASCINATION WITH TRUE CRIME AND OUR FASCINATION  WITH CELEBRITY HIT HEAD ON IN THIS CASE AND BALDWIN ALSO  CARRIES A LITTLE BIT OF POLITICAL ENERGY AROUND HIM  FROM PLAYING TRUMP AND PEOPLE HAVE STRONG FEELINGS ABOUT  HIM.

I THINK THAT MEDIA FRENZY, WE ARE SORT OF SEEING ALL THOSE  FACTORS AT ONCE.

I WAS SURPRISED THEY GOT  THROUGH VOIR DIRE IN A DAY.

I THOUGHT HOW ARE THEY GOING  TO GET A JURY THAT CAN HEAR THIS?

ARE THESE PEOPLE, ARE THEY ALL HONEST, WHO ARE THEY?

SO, WE'LL FIND OUT.

>> Lou: HOUSE BILL 151,  AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT BILL SPONSORED BY REPRESENTATIVE  LIZ THOMSON AND FOUR OTHERS HAD A ROCKY YET FAMILIAR TRIP  THROUGH THE ROUNDHOUSE.

LAST YEAR, AFTER SEVERAL VOTES  AND AMENDMENTS, A NEARLY IDENTICAL BILL DIED BEFORE  REACHING THE FINAL VOTE.

THIS YEAR, THOMSON'S BILL MADE  IT THROUGH TO THE GOVERNOR'S DESK.

REPRESENTATIVE THOMSON AND ALEXANDRIA TAYLOR, EXECUTIVE  DIRECTOR OF NEW MEXICO COALITION OF SEXUAL ASSAULT  PROGRAMS, JOINS ME THIS WEEK TO DISCUSS WHY THEY SEE THE  MEASURE AS A FIRST STEP IN CHANGING THE WAY PEOPLE TALK  ABOUT SEXUAL ASSAULT AND CONSENT.

>> Lou: STATE REPRESENTATIVE LIZ THOMSON, ALEXANDRIA  TAYLOR, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF NEW MEXICO COALITION OF SEXUAL  ASSAULT PROGRAMS, THANK YOU SO MUCH BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

THIS YEAR, HOUSE BILL 151 THAT YOU SPONSORED, REPRESENTATIVE,  WENT THROUGH SEVERAL VOTES AND AMENDMENTS BEFORE LEGISLATORS  ULTIMATELY DID VOTE IT THROUGH.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THE FINAL PRODUCT LOOKS LIKE?

>> Thomson: YEAH.

WHAT THE FINAL PRODUCT  LOOKINGS LIKE, IS THIS YEAR WE TARGETED ONLY POSTSECONDARY  EDUCATION AND WHAT THAT BILL WILL DO IS MAKE AFFIRMATIVE  CONSENT THE STANDARD FOR SEXUAL ACTIVITIES.

ONLY YES MEANS YES.

NOT SAYING NO, DOESN'T MEAN  YES.

AND THE IMPORTANT PART OF IT  IS TRAINING FOR COLLEGE -- POSTSECONDARY STUDENTS AROUND  WHAT THIS IS AND HOW TO REPORT AND ALL OF THOSE KIND OF  THINGS.

IT ALSO REALLY WEAVES IN TRAMA  INFORMED CARE.

SO THAT THE VICTIM ISN'T  REVICTIMIZED BY QUESTIONS OR STATEMENTS OR WHATEVER.

SO THAT IS IT IN NUTSHELL.

>> Lou: OKAY.

ALEXANDRIA, I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THIS  CONVERSATION FOR YEARS.

THE BILL INITIALLY INCLUDED K  THROUGH 12 COMPONENTS.

I KNOW YOU JUST SAID  POSTSECONDARY COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITY EDUCATION IS WHAT  THIS APPLIES TO NOW.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT AN  AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT POLICY WOULD LIKE FOR ELEMENTARY,  MIDDLE AND HIGH SCHOOLERS AND HOW THAT IS DIFFERENT THAN  WHAT IS IN THIS BILL?

>> Taylor: YEAH.

WHEN WE STARTED THIS IN 2019 WITH REPRESENTATIVE THOMSON,  AS SHE SAID, IT INCLUDED K THROUGH 12 PORTION.

AND WHAT THAT LOOKED LIKES WAS THAT AN AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT  STANDARD BE TAUGHT IN THE ALREADY EXISTING ONE HEALTH  UNIT THAT THEY TAKE EITHER IN EIGHTH GRADE OR IN HIGH  SCHOOL.

AT THE TIME THAT WE STARTED  THIS, MY NIECE WAS A FRESHMAN IN HIGH SCHOOL.

SHE IS NOW A SOPHOMORE AT UNM AND THE YOUNG PEOPLE IN OUR  LIVES WERE ASKING FOR THIS TYPE OF EDUCATION AT SCHOOL TO  MAKE IT VERY CLEAR WHAT CONSENT IS.

AND SO AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT STANDARD MAKES IT CLEAR THAT  CONSENT MUST BE VOLUNTARY, MUST BE ACTIVE, MUST BE  CONSCIOUS BY ALL PARTIES INVOLVED.

SO, TEACHING THAT IN A K THROUGH 12 SETTING IS WHAT IS  ONE OF OUR PRIORITIES AT THE COALITION TO PREVENT SEXUAL  VIOLENCE FROM OCCURRING AT ALL.

SO IT IS BEGINNING TO EQUIP YOUNG PEOPLE WITH THE TOOLS  NECESSARY TO MAKE THOSE CONSCIOUS AND AFFIRMATIVE  DECISIONS ABOUT THEIR LIVES.

>> Thomson: AND WE ARE TALKING  ABOUT TRAINING FOR EIGHTH GRADERS OR HIGH SCHOOL BUT  EVEN WITH PRESCHOOLERS, YOU CAN TEACH THEM THAT NO ONE CAN  KISS THEM WITHOUT ASKING IF IT IS OKAY.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO HOLD SOMEONE'S HAND, YOU SHOULD  ASK.

SO, TEACHING EVEN YOUNG  CHILDREN THAT THEIR BODIES ARE THEIR OWN AND NO ONE HAS ANY  CONTROL OVER THEM EXCEPT THEMSELVES ESSENTIALLY.

>> Lou: TALKING ABOUT KIDS AS YOUNG IN PRESCHOOL,  KINDERGARTEN, FIRST, SECOND THIRD.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT INSTITUTING THESE POLICIES OR  STARTING THESE CONVERSATION AT A YOUNGER AGE IS IMPORTANT AND  WHY?

>> Taylor: IT ABSOLUTELY IS,  BECAUSE IT IS ABOUT HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS AND BOUNDARIES,  RIGHT?

IT IS ABOUT HAVING AGENCY OVER OUR OWN LIVES AND TEACHING  YOUNG CHILDREN TO HAVE THAT AGENCY OVER THEIR LIVES.

I THINK IN RECENT YEARS, WE HAVE SEEN MESSAGING AND  CAMPAIGNS AROUND FAMILY HOLIDAY GATHERINGS AND TO GIVE  YOUNG CHILDREN THE OPTION OF WHETHER TO HUG FAMILY MEMBERS  OR NOT.

AND WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS THAT  YOU HAVE AUTONOMY.

YOU GET TO MAKE DECISIONS FOR  YOUR LIVES AND WON'T BE FORCED INTO SITUATIONS THAT YOU FEEL  UNCOMFORTABLE WITH.

IT IS REALLY NECESSARY.

YOUNG CHILDREN HAVE THAT SENSE.

THEY HAVE THAT INTUITION AND THEN WE SOMEHOW, IN OUR  SOCIETY, FORCE CHILDREN TO ENGAGE IN ACTIVITIES THAT THEY  WON'T WANT TO ENGAGE IN, AS SIMPLE AS GIVING SOMEONE A  HUG, THAT THEY, PERHAPS, DON'T WANT TO GIVE SOMEONE A HUG.

I ALWAYS ASK -- I AM BLESSED TO BE A GOD MOM TO SOME  AMAZING LITTLE CHILDREN AND I ALWAYS ASK THEM, MAY I HAVE A  HUG.

IF THEY SAY NO, I AM LIKE,  COOL, RIGHT, AND THAT IS THEM BEING ABLE TO SET THE  BOUNDARIES FOR THEIR LIVES AND WHAT THEY ARE COMFORTABLE WITH  FROM A VERY EARLY AGE.

>> Lou: HOW WOULD YOU ADDRESS  CONCERNS FROM PARENTS WHO MIGHT BE WARY OF THEIR CHILD  BEING INTRODUCED TO THESE CONVERSATIONS.

I KNOW A LOT OF THE CONVERSATION, IN A GENERAL  SENSE, MOVES TOWARDS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR.

AND I KNOW THAT IS WHAT A LOT OF PARENTS THINK OF WHEN THEY  HEAR THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT.

HOW WOULD YOU ALLAY THOSE CONCERNS ABOUT A SITUATION  THAT THEY FEEL MIGHT BE OUT OF THEIR CONTROL AS THEIR CHILD  IS BEING TAUGHT ABOUT THIS AWAY FROM THEM?

>> Thomson: WELL, ONE OF THE SIMPLE WAYS THAT I ALWAYS TALK  ABOUT THIS IS THAT WHEN WE ARE OUT AT DINNER AND I WANT ONE  OF YOUR FRIES OR MY CHILD WANTS ONE OF MY FRIES, I HAVE  TAUGHT HIM NOT TO JUST REACH OVER AND GRAB A FRENCH FRY OFF  MY PLATE, BUT TO ASK, MAY I HAVE ONE OF YOUR FRIES?

AND I CAN EITHER SAY YES OR NO.

THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT FOR EARLY AGE.

IT IS AGE APPROPRIATE.

AND THEN AS CHILDREN BECOME  MORE MATURE, THEN WE START INTRODUCING THIS IN A HEALTHY  RELATIONSHIP AND SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP CONTEXT.

SO, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AGE APPROPRIATE CONTENT.

AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT EDUCATION IS NOT SOMETHING THAT SOMEONE  IS MAKING UP.

IT HAS AN EVIDENCE BASE BEHIND  IT.

CDC HAS PROVEN THAT THIS IS A  PRIMARY PREVENTION MEASURE TO END SEXUAL VIOLENCE IN OUR  SOCIETY.

AND SO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT  PROVIDING AGE APPROPRIATE EDUCATION FROM A VERY EARLY  AGE AND THEN AS YOUNG PEOPLE MATURE AND GET OLDER, EVOLVING  THAT CONVERSATION TO INCLUDE HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS AND  SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS.

IN OUR CURRENT SYSTEM, WHICH  THIS BILL DOESN'T ADDRESS THE K THROUGH 12 PORTION, BUT IN  OUR CURRENT SYSTEM, PARENTS HAVE THE OPTION TO OPT THEIR  CHILDREN OUT OF THE ONE HEALTH UNIT THAT IS COVERING HEALTHY  SEXUALITY.

>> Lou: REPRESENTATIVE  THOMSON, HAVE YOU HEARD CONCERNS OR DID YOU HEAR  CONCERNS DURING DEBATES ABOUT THIS IN THE ROUNDHOUSE THAT  ULTIMATELY LED TO THE BILL BEING NARROWED TO JUST  UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES?

>> Thomson: KIND OF, BECAUSE  PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS.

THEY THINK IF YOU'RE TEACHING  AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT, YOU'RE TEACHING A KINDERGARTENER THAT  THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE SEX OR THEY SHOULD HAVE SEX.

AND AS ALEXANDRIA SAID, THAT IS NOT IT AT ALL.

TEACHING THEM THAT THEIR BODIES BELONG TO THEM AND WE  HAVE ALL HEARD THE HORROR STORIES OF PREACHERS AND FOLKS  WHO MOLESTED THE KIDS AND THE KIDS DIDN'T KNOW THAT THEY HAD  THE RIGHT TO SAY NO.

AND THEY DIDN'T KNOW THAT THEY  SHOULD TELL SOMEONE.

SO, THE REASON THAT WE SCALED  IT BACK IS BECAUSE IT HADN'T PASSED AND WE WANTED TO GET  SOMETHING ON THE BOOKS.

WE ARE NOT FINISHED WITH THIS.

WE WILL BE BACK AND MY ULTIMATE GOAL, I THINK, THE  WHOLE COALITION'S ULTIMATE GOAL, IS TO HAVE THIS A  STANDARD FOR ALL STUDENTS.

AND AS ALEXANDRIA SAID, IN THE  EIGHTH GRADE OR HIGH SCHOOLS, TOWARDS THE MORE SEXUAL SIDE  OF IT, BUT EVEN WITH ALSO KIDS, TEACHING THEM THINGS  LIKE, DON'T TAKE SOMEONE ELSE'S FOOD WITHOUT ASKING.

DON'T KISS SOMEONE WITHOUT ASKING AND IF SOMEONE ASKS  YOU, YOU CAN SAY NO.

>> Lou: ALEXANDRIA, AS WE  DISCUSSED, YOU PLAYED A LARGE ROLE IN ADVOCATING FOR THIS  BILL.

CAN YOU TELL US EXACTLY WHAT  IS THE CONCRETE PROBLEM THAT YOU ARE HOPING TO FIX WITH  THIS LEGISLATION AND DO YOU THINK HOUSE BILL 151 SOLVES  IT?

>> Taylor: I THINK THIS IS A  CRITICAL FIRST STEP IN SETTING A STANDARD AND BEGINNING TO  HAVE CONVERSATIONS THAT WILL SHIFT CULTURE.

WHAT WE HAVE SEEN ON OUR COLLEGE CAMPUSES FOR FAR TOO  LONG IS YOUNG PEOPLE ENTERING A NEW STAGE OF THEIR LIFE AND  NOT HAVING CLARITY AROUND ESSENTIALLY THE RULES OF THE  GAME.

SO WHAT WE DID WAS BUILD A  BROAD COALITION WITH REPRESENTATIVE THOMSON'S  LEADERSHIP THAT REPRESENTED COMMUNITIES OF COLOR IN NEW  MEXICO, YOUNG PEOPLE, QUEER AND TRANS COMMUNITIES TO  REALLY TALK ABOUT WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE AS YOU WERE  COMING UP?

WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT  EXPERIENCE ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

SO RIGHT NOW WE KNOW THAT IN NEW MEXICO ONE IN FOUR WOMEN,  ONE IN SIX BOYS AND MEN WILL BE THE VICTIMS OF SEXUAL  VIOLENCE.

AND THAT IS ALSO INCLUDED ON  OUR COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

I HEAR -- WHEN I TRAVEL ACROSS  THE STATE I HEAR FROM YOUNG PEOPLE AND THEIR PARENTS WHO  MAY HAVE EXPERIENCED SEXUAL VIOLENCE, THAT THEY DON'T KNOW  HOW TO NAVIGATE THE SYSTEMS THAT EXIST ON OUR COLLEGE  CAMPUSES.

SO THE FIRST   PART OF THIS BILL IS EDUCATION.

IT IS ABOUT ENSURING THAT EVERYBODY AT OUR COLLEGE  CAMPUSES KNOW THAT THE STANDARD FOR SEXUAL ACTIVITY  IS ONE OF AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT.

THEY ARE RECEIVING THAT  EDUCATION AT ORIENTATION.

FACULTY, STAFF, CONTRACTORS  ARE ALSO RECEIVING THAT EDUCATION.

AND THEN PEOPLE HAVE CLARITY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS SHOULD  SOMETHING HAPPEN TO THEM.

THEY NEED TO KNOW WHAT TO  EXPECT FROM OUR INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER EDUCATION AS THEY  NAVIGATE AND INVESTIGATE A PROCESS.

THEY NEED TO KNOW THAT THEY HAVE ACCESS TO COMMUNITY-BASED  RESOURCES SUCH AS ADVOCATES, MENTAL HEALTH COUNCILORS,  SEXUAL ASSAULT NURSE EXAMINER PROGRAMS AND COMMUNITIES OF  SUPPORT TO SUPPORT THEM THROUGH THIS TIME.

SO THAT IS WHAT THIS BILL ACCOMPLISHES AND SETS THE  FOUNDATION FOR.

>> Thomson: AS I HAVE CARRIED  THIS BILL THROUGH THE YEARS, I HAVE HAD SO MANY PEOPLE COME  TO ME AND SAY, I WISH I WOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS.

I MEAN, I AM GETTING UP THERE IN YEARS AND I WISH I WOULD  HAVE KNOWN THIS.

IT PROBABLY WOULD HAVE  PREVENTED SOME -- I HAD A YOUNG MAN IN MY OFFICE AND HE  SAID, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL I WISH I WOULD  HAVE KNOWN THIS BECAUSE WHAT THE BOYS DID WAS SEE WHICH  GIRL WAS THE HEAVIEST DRINKER, TRY AND GET HER DRUNK AND HAVE  SEX WITH HER.

SO WE NEED TO MAKE THAT  TOTALLY NOT HAPPEN ANYMORE.

AND SO LOTS OF FOLKS INCLUDING  ELDERLY FOLKS HAVE COME UP TO ME AND SAID, I WISH I WOULD  HAVE KNOWN THIS.

>> Lou: A SIMILAR VERSION OF  THIS BILL IN LAST FEW YEARS HAVE FAILED -- FAILED TO EVEN  REACH THE SENATE FLOOR.

WHY DO YOU THINK IT WAS  DIFFERENT THIS YEAR?

>> Thomson: I WISH I KNEW.

I WISH I KNEW WHAT THE MAGIC WAS.

I THINK PART OF IT WAS WE SCALED IT BACK AND IT WASN'T  JUDICIARY.

IT WAS VERY MUCH, I DON'T WANT  TO SAY GUTTED, BUT A LOT WAS TAKEN OUT AND BEING IN SANTA  FE, BEING IN THE LEGISLATURE, COMPROMISE IS KING.

YOU CAN'T ALWAYS GET WHAT YOU WANT.

SO, WE ARE TAKING THIS AS A POSITIVE FIRST STEP AND WE ARE  GOING TO BE BACK.

THERE ARE ELECTIONS COMING UP.

ALL OF US ARE UP FOR REELECTION.

SO THE SENATE AND/OR THE HOUSE MAY LOOK DIFFERENT NEXT YEAR.

SO, WE ARE JUST GOING TO KEEP ON, BECAUSE WE WANT TO PROTECT  OUR YOUNG PEOPLE.

>> Lou: YOU BOTH HAVE SAID  THIS IS JUST A FIRST STEP.

WHAT ARE THE NEXT STEPS,  WHETHER THROUGH LEGISLATION OR  OTHER PUBLIC OUTREACH?

>> Taylor: THERE WERE SOME  SIGNIFICANT PARTS OF THE BILL THAT WERE AMENDED OUT.

ONE THAT HAS BEEN HEAVY ON MY HEART SINCE LAST WEEK IS THAT  WE HAD A PROPOSED REQUIREMENT THAT THE INSTITUTIONS OF  HIGHER ED ENTER INTO MOU'S WITH SERVICE PROVIDERS OFF  CAMPUS TO ENSURE PEOPLE ARE IMMEDIATELY CONNECTED TO  RESOURCES IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.

WE ARE GOING TO BE WORKING WITH COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES  ALL ACROSS THE STATE TO STILL TRY TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN, EVEN  THOUGH IT WON'T BE MANDATED BY LAW ONCE THE GOVERNOR SIGNS  THIS, BECAUSE WE KNOW FROM THE SEXUAL ASSAULT COALITION AS  SERVICE PROVIDERS ACROSS THE STATE, THAT THAT EARLY  INTERVENTION IS REALLY CRUCIAL FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN  VICTIMIZED.

WE REALLY WANT TO SEE THAT  HAPPEN.

THERE IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF  WORK.

WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT  CULTURE SHIFT AND ONE OF THE REASONS I THINK IT HAS TAKEN  US FIVE YEARS, IS BECAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT CULTURE  SHIFT.

I KEPT SAYING, I CAN'T BELIEVE  OUR LITTLE AFFIRMATIVE CONSENT BILL IS CAUSING ALL THIS.

AND ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES REMINDED ME, PERHAPS IT IS NOT  SO LITTLE.

PERHAPS IT IS THAT FIRST  DOMINO THAT OPENS THE CONVERSATION.

WE CAN'T PREVENT THE STORIES THAT REPRESENTATIVE THOMSON  HAS BEEN HEARING.

WE CAN'T PREVENT THAT BY NOT  TALKING ABOUT IT.

WE HAVE TO MAKE IT CLEAR WHAT  HEALTHY SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS LOOK LIKE, WHAT AFFIRMATIVE  CONSENT IS, SO THAT PEOPLE ARE NOT OPERATING IN THE UNKNOWN.

SO THIS IS THAT FIRST STEP AND THERE IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF  WORK THAT HAS TO HAPPEN ADMINISTRATIVELY WITH OUR  COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES TO ENSURE THAT THEY ARE USING THE  PROPER EDUCATION, THE POLICIES ARE BEING CREATED AND THAT  STUDENTS ARE BEING EDUCATED.

>> Thomson: THESE SUBJECTS  HAVE BEEN TABOO FOR SO LONG WHICH MAKES IT EASIER FOR THE  PERPETRATORS BECAUSE NOBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT.

IT IS SHAMEFUL.

WE DON'T WANT THAT TO BE -- WE  WANT IT NOT TO HAPPEN.

WE DON'T WANT TO NOT TALK  ABOUT IT.

>> Lou: REPRESENTATIVE LIZ  THOMSON, ALEXANDRIA TAYLOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING  HERE.

>> Thomson: THANK YOU.

>> Lou: TURNING BACK TO THE DEADLY DEVELOPMENTS IN THE  RUST MOVIE SET SHOOTING, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF  PROCTOR AND THE VIRTUAL ROUNDTABLE SHIFT FOCUS FROM  THE ONGOING TRIAL OF ARMORER HANNAH GUTIERREZ-REED TO THE  PENDING TRIAL OF PRODUCER AND ACTOR ALEC BALDWIN.

HERE IS JEFF.

>> Jeff: THANKS AGAIN, LOU.

AND WELCOME BACK TO JULIA GOLDBERG AND AHMAD ASSED.

THIS CASE HAS BEEN A MESS FROM DAY ONE AND ALEC BALDWIN'S  LEGAL TEAM SEEMS POISED TO EXPLOIT THE MANY MISSTATES  FROM PROSECUTORS.

DURING A STATUS HEARING ON  TUESDAY, BALDWIN ATTORNEY ALEX SPIRO HINTED THAT THE DEFENSE  TEAM HAD SOME ISSUES WITH THE WAY PROSECUTORS HANDLED THE  GRAND JURY PROCEEDINGS THAT LED TO BALDWIN'S INDICTMENT.

AHMAD, IF PROSECUTORS OR VIOLATED JUDGE ELLINGTON'S  ORDERS FOR THAT SECRET GRAND JURY PROCEEDING AS MR. SPIRO  SAYS, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR THE CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST  BALDWIN?

>> Assed: IT DEPENDS  FACTUALLY, RIGHT, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE  BASIS FOR THAT MOTION.

WE DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT IS  POSTURING BY THE DEFENSE OR THERE IS THIS STRATEGY, BUT,  LET'S ASSUME FOR ARGUMENT SAKE, THAT THERE WAS  PARTICULAR DIRECTION BY JUDGE ELLINGTON AND THAT THE  PROSECUTORS DID NOT FOLLOW THOSE ORDERS TO THE DETRIMENT  OR PREJUDICE OF THE DEFENDANT IN TERMS OF THE PRESENTATION  OF THE CASE.

AND WHETHER POSSIBLY THAT  DEFENDANT WAS EITHER, YOU KNOW, AFFECTED BY THE  SHORTCOMINGS OF THE PROSECUTOR, THAT COULD BE A  PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT MOTION THAT IS PRESENTED TO  THE COURT FOR REVIEW OF THE ORDERS AND WHAT, IN FACT, THE  STATE DID.

WHAT THAT ULTIMATELY, IF  SUCCESSFUL, WOULD LEAD TO A DISMISSAL OF THE CHARGES.

IT WOULDN'T -- IN MY EXPERIENCE, IT WOULD BE VERY  DIFFICULT TO GET IT DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE.

IT MAY BE THAT THE SCENARIO IS DISMISSED WITHOUT PREJUDICE,  ASSUMING THE FACTS ARE WHAT THEY ARE, AS PRESCRIBED BY THE  DEFENSE.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT ENDS TOTALLY BECAUSE THEY CAN STILL  GO BACK TO A GRAND JURY AND REINDICT.

UNLESS THERE IS SPECIFIC FINDINGS THAT SUGGEST  OTHERWISE AND THIS MATTER IS DISMISSED FOR PREJUDICE.

>> Jeff: WHAT THIS REALLY DOES AND WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO LOOK  FOR HERE IS AS THIS GOES FORWARD IS WHETHER IT HARMED  THE CASE AGAINST BALDWIN, RIGHT?

>> Assed: THAT IS CORRECT.

>> Jeff: WHETHER THERE WAS  SOME DAMAGE DONE TO THE INNOCENCE PRESUMPTION, FOR  EXAMPLE, RIGHT?

>> Assed: THAT IS CORRECT.

I MEAN, IT HAS TO BE MORE THAN  JUST A NOT FOLLOWING THE ORDER.

THE EFFECT OF IT HAS TO BE PREJUDICIAL TO THE TARGET AT  THAT TIME.

IT IS NOT A DEFENDANT, BECAUSE  IT IS A GRAND JURY, SO, THERE HAS TO BE MORE LAID OUT FOR US  TO FULLY ASSESS KIND OF WHAT PARAMETERS A RELIEF WOULD BE,  ASSUMING THAT IT PROCEEDED FORTHWITH BUT WE'LL FIND OUT  ONCE THEY FILE THAT MOTION.

>> Jeff: OKAY.

LET'S SHIFT GEARS COMPLETELY HERE.

THIS CASE WAS CUSTOM MADE FOR THE NATIONAL MEDIA SPOTLIGHT  FROM THE MOMENT WE LEARNED ABOUT THE SHOOTING.

THAT PHOTO OF A BEARDED ALEC BALDWIN ON THE PHONE HAS BEEN  LITERALLY EVERYWHERE FOR TWO PLUS YEARS.

A LOCAL PHOTOGRAPHER SNAPPED THAT FRAME BUT NOW THAT WE  HAVE ARRIVED AT TRIAL TIME, NATIONAL REPORTERS ARE GOING  TO OUTNUMBER LOCAL JOURNALISTS IN THAT COURTROOM EVERYDAY BY  31 TO THREE.

THAT IS PER COURT RULES.

JULIA, HOW MIGHT THAT INFLUENCE THE WAY PEOPLE  NATIONALLY AND LOCALLY WILL PERCEIVE THIS CASE BASED ON  WHO IS COVERING IT?

>> Goldberg: WELL, I THINK,  ALMOST EVERY NATIONAL STORY I READ REFERS TO THE DISTRICT  ATTORNEY HERE AS SORT OF HAVING BUMBLED THE CASE.

THEY TALK ABOUT THE PROBLEMS THAT THE SANTA FE COUNTY  SHERIFF IS ALREADY KIND OF DISMISSAL.

I WAS LOOKING AT OPENING COMMENTS HAPPENING ON COURT TV  TODAY AND PEOPLE WERE ANALYZING THE JUDGE AND SAYING  SHE SEEMED NERVOUS TO BE ON NATIONAL TV.

I WAS LIKE, YOU DON'T KNOW THAT JUDGE.

I DON'T THINK SHE IS NERVOUS.

SO, I THINK YOU'LL GET A  LITTLE BIT OF THEY DON'T KNOW THE PLAYERS AS WELL.

SO, MAYBE THEY ARE MORE OBJECTIVE AND ALSO JUST NOT AS  KNOWLEDGEABLE.

>> Jeff: COURT TV, VERY, VERY  WELL PRACTICED IN THE DARK ARTS.

THEY KNOW HOW TO SLOW THE WALK DOWN ACROSS THE COURTROOM AND  DO THAT WHOLE THING.

LET'S SHIFT GEARS QUICKLY.

I HAVE WATCHED YOU SLUG AWAY IN COURTROOMS FULL OF CAMERAS  AND REPORTERS FOR MANY YEARS.

DOES THE STRATEGY FOR DEFENSE  ATTORNEYS OR PROSECUTORS CHANGE WHEN THE LIGHTS GET  BRIGHTER LIKE THIS?

>> Assed: YEAH, BECAUSE YOU'RE  ESSENTIALLY SPEAKING TO TWO DIFFERENT COURTROOMS, IF YOU  WILL.

THAT OF THE GENERAL PUBLIC AND  THEN THE JURY THAT IS BEFORE YOU.

SO, YOU HAVE TO BRING -- REALLY YOU HAVE TO BE  COGNIZANT AND BRING YOUR A GAME AND UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT  YOU'RE DOING, ESPECIALLY WITH MR. BALDWIN, HE HAS GOT A  CAREER AFTER THIS TRIAL, RIGHT?

AND SO, HE IS GOING HAVE TO SURVIVE DESPITE ANY TYPE OF  OUTCOME IN THE CRIMINAL CASE AGAINST HIM, FOR EXAMPLE, HE  HAS GOT TO BE ABLE TO SURVIVE OUT THERE.

SO, THERE IS A PARALLEL PROCEEDING THAT YOU GOT TO BE  COGNIZANT OF WHEN REPRESENTING PEOPLE THAT ARE HIGH PROFILE  IN HIGH PROFILE CASES.

>> Jeff: LET'S UNPACK THAT  JUST A LITTLE BIT.

IN TERMS OF THE WAY YOU  PRESENT THE CASE TO THE JURY,  HAVING HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH YOU FOR A REALLY LONG  TIME, I WOULDN'T IMAGINE THAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO INFLUENCE  THAT BIT, BUT CAN IT, A LITTLE BIT, KNOWING WHAT IS GOING ON  OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM?

>> Assed: YOU CAN BET THAT IT  DOES.

EVERY PERSON THAT IS  QUESTIONED AT THE BEGINNING OF JURY SELECTION, VOIR DIRE, YOU  KNOW THEY ARE COMING IN WITH SOME KNOWLEDGE OF THIS FACT.

THIS WAS HIGHLY PUBLICIZED AND THE QUESTIONS POSED BY -- THIS  IDEA OF CAN YOU SET ALL THAT ASIDE AND RENDER A VERDICT  BASED ON THE FACTS HERE TODAY IS, QUITE FRANKLY, IT IS A  VERY DIFFICULT STANDARD FOR ANY JURY TO MEET.

THERE IS IMPLICIT BIASES.

STUFF THAT WE DON'T EVEN KNOW  WE ARE BUILT WITH AS WE COME INTO A JURY.

SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT IS GOING TO BE VERY HARD FOR  THEM TO DIVORCE.

YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO  CONSIDERATION.

WHEN YOU'RE ADDRESSING THE  CASE YOU GOT TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHAT HAS BEEN  PERMEATING IN THE MEDIA OUR THERE AND PACKAGE IT TO WHERE  IT IS EFFECTIVE FOR YOUR CLIENT MOVING FORWARD IN THE  COURSE OF THAT TRIAL.

>> Jeff: GOT YOU.

ONE OTHER THING I WANT TO GET AT HERE, ALEC BALDWIN IS ALEC  BALDWIN, AWARD WINNING ACTOR, SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE SUPER  STAR, SERIOUS CLOUT IN THE FILM INDUSTRY.

JULIA, DOES HIS STATURE IN HOLLYWOOD AND THIS PROSECUTION  PLAY INTO THE IDEA THAT THERE ARE TWO SYSTEMS OF JUSTICE?

ONE FOR FOLKS LIKE BALDWIN AND ANOTHER FOR THE REST OF US?

>> Goldberg: YEAH, I INTERVIEWED DA MARY  CARMACK-ALTWIES RIGHT BEFORE SHE BROUGHT THE ORIGINAL  CHARGES, AND THAT WAS THE MAIN THING WE TALKED ABOUT WAS HER  NOT WANTING THAT TO BE THE CASE, THAT THE IMPORTANT THING  WAS GETTING JUSTICE FOR THIS VICTIM REGARDLESS OF WHO HAD  TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

I FOUND THAT CREDIBLE WHEN SHE  AND I TALKED AND I THINK IT IS A HARD THING TO DO BECAUSE I  THINK THE STATE -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY OUTGUNNED BECAUSE  THAT IS INAPPROPRIATE, BUT OUTMANNED IN TERMS OF THE  RESOURCES THEY CAN BRING.

CERTAINLY, THIS CASE, YOU  KNOW, I THINK OUR COUNTRY'S FASCINATION WITH TRUE CRIME  AND OUR COUNTRY'S FASCINATION WITH CELEBRITY, KIND OF HIT  HEAD ON IN THIS CASE AND BALDWIN ALSO CARRIES A LITTLE  BIT OF THE POLITICAL ENERGY AROUND HIM FROM PLAYING TRUMP  AND PEOPLE HAVE STRONG FEELINGS ABOUT HIM.

SO THAT MEDIA FRENZY, WE ARE SORT OF SEEING ALL THOSE  FACTORS AT ONCE.

I WAS SURPRISED THEY GOT  THROUGH VOIR DIRE IN A DAY.

I THOUGHT, HOW ARE THEY GOING  TO GET A JURY THAT CAN HEAR THIS?

LIKE, ARE PEOPLE ALL HONEST LIKE, WHO ARE THEY, SO --  WE'LL FIND OUT.

>> Jeff: AHMAD, GO AHEAD.

>> Assed: I AM SORRY, I HAVE GOT KIND OF AGREE AND DISAGREE  A BIT WITH JULIA.

I AGREE WITH REGARDS TO VOIR  DIRE AND HOW SHORT IT WAS TO SELECT A JURY.

I WAS VERY SURPRISED ABOUT THAT AS WELL.

BUT I HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT THE STATUS OF MR. BALDWIN  WORKED AGAINST HIM WITH REGARD TO THE PROSECUTION OF THIS  CASE.

I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT THE  IDEA THAT IT WAS CHARGED AND THEN DISMISSED AND PRIOR TO  THAT THERE WAS THE FIREARM ENHANCEMENT THAT WAS ADDED  IRRESPONSIBLY AND THE SLOPPINESS OF THE PROCESS AND  THE AGGRESSIVE NATURE OF CONTINUING TO COME BACK AND  COME BACK, TELLS ME THAT THERE WAS A STRUGGLE TO KEEP THE  PROSECUTION GOING AND I BELIEVE THAT HIS STATUS AS AN  ACTOR WORKED AGAINST HIM IN DECIDING TO CONTINUE TO BE  AGGRESSIVE ABOUT PURSUING THE PROSECUTION IN THIS MATTER.

>> Goldberg: TO SAVE FACE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO DROP THE CASE.

IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN?

>> Assed: PART OF THAT IS TO  SAVE FACE.

BECAUSE OF THE SLOPPINESS.

THE OTHER PART IS IT MAY BE THEIR QUEST TO RECEIVE SOME  FORM OF JUSTICE FOR THE HUTCHINS FAMILY BUT IN DOING  SO, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE MORE AGGRESSIVE EFFORTS THAT  WOULD PROBABLY NOT HAVE BEEN NORMALLY ATTRIBUTED TO AN  EFFORT AGAINST SOMEBODY THAT MAY NOT BE THE ACTOR, BECAUSE  THE POLICY WAS, EVERYBODY IS THE SAME UNDER THE LAW.

AND I REMEMBER THE DA SAYING THAT.

THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO YOU ARE.

>> Goldberg: I MEAN, DOESN'T THEIR CONTINUING TO BRING A  CASE AGAINST THE 24-YEAR OLD ARMORER KIND OF BELIE THAT?

SHE IS IN THERE TOO.

>> Assed: THE PROBLEM IS YOU  CAN'T BRING IT AGAINST MR. BALDWIN AND NOT BRING IT  AGAINST MS. GUTIERREZ-REED.

SO, IF YOU DECIDE TO GO AFTER  BALDWIN, IT WOULDN'T MAKE ANY SENSE NOT CHARGING THE ACTUAL  WEAPON SPECIALIST IN THE CASE.

>> Jeff: LET'S WORK ON THIS  POLITICALLY A LITTLE BIT.

I HAVE GOT ABOUT TWO MINUTES  TO GO WITH THIS SEGMENT.

OF COURSE, MARCO SERNA WHO  PRECEDED MARY CARMACK-ALTWEIS IN THE DISTRICTS ATTORNEYS'  OFFICE HAS ANNOUNCED HE IS GOING TO TAKE ANOTHER SWING AT  THAT RACE IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY IN JUNE.

IN HIS ANNOUNCEMENT THAT HE IS GOING TO RUN, HE POPPED HER  FOR THE HANDLING OF THIS CASE.

SO, BRIEFLY, I WANT TO LET YOU  BOTH TAKE A RIP AT THIS ONE.

IS IT POSSIBLE THAT MESSAGE,  THE HANDLING, NOT NECESSARILY THE OUTCOME OF THE BASE, BUT  THE HANDLING, RESONATES WITH VOTERS.

JULIA, YOU FIRST.

>> Goldberg: YES, I MEAN, I  THINK SHE WAS OKAY UP UNTIL THE REVELATION OF THE EMAILS  BETWEEN HER AND ANDREA REEB THAT WERE SO NONPROFESSIONAL  AND MADE IT CLEAR THEY KNEW THEY WERE IN THE PUBLIC EYE  AND HAD A SORT OF GIDDINESS ABOUT THAT.

WITHOUT THAT, I THINK PEOPLE WERE READY TO ACCEPT, YEAH,  SHE NEEDS MORE MONEY, YEAH, SHE NEEDS SPECIAL PROSECUTORS  BUT I THINK THAT REALLY UNDERMINED HER CASE.

>> JEFF SORRY TO CUT YOU OFF JULIA, BUT I HAVE ABOUT 30  SECONDS.

AHMAD, I KNOW YOU HAVE WATCHED  A LOT OF THESE RACES.

HOW DO YOU THINK THIS PLAYS  POLITICALLY, THE HANDLING OF  THE CASE?

>> Assed: I THINK IT IS GOING  TO BE IMPACTFUL.

I AGREE WITH JULIA AND IT IS  GOING TO BE IMPACTFUL IN THE VOTERS DECISION THIS TIME  AROUND.

WHETHER IT IS ENOUGH TO DEFEAT  THE INCUMBENT IS A DIFFERENT STORY BUT IT WAS HANDLED  POORLY AND HANDLING IN AND OF ITSELF IS SOMETHING THAT WAS  HIGHLY PUBLICIZED AND IT IS HARD TO GET RID OF THAT MEMORY  AND THAT INFORMATION FROM THE VOTERS MOVING FORWARD.

SERNA IS GOING TO ENSURE THAT THAT IS NOT FORGOTTEN BY THE  VOTING PUBLIC.

>> Jeff: LONG WAY TO GO HERE  IN THIS THING.

JULIA GOLDBERG, AHMAD ASSED,  THANK YOU ALL FOR TALKING WITH ME ABOUT THIS TODAY.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> Assed: PLEASURE JEFF.

THANK YOU JULIA.

>> Lou: THANKS TO JEFF AND TO  JULIA AND AHMAD FOR MAKING THE TIME TO SPEAK WITH US.

WE CLOSE THE SHOW TONIGHT WITH A GROWING PROTEST OVER  ISRAEL'S CONTINUED BOMBING OF CIVILIANS IN GAZA FOLLOWING AN  ATTACK BY HAMAS LAST YEAR.

LAST WEEK, MEOW WOLF CANCELED  THE SHOW BY MUSICIAN MATISYAHU AFTER A FLOOD OF CALLS FROM  ACTIVISTS UPSET BY HIS VOCAL SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL.

PROTESTERS GATHERED OUTSIDE OF JERRY SEINFELD'S STANDUP SHOW  IN ALBUQUERQUE LAST WEEK TOO, ACCUSING THE COMEDIAN OF  SUPPORTING GENOCIDE WITH HIS PRO ISRAEL ACTIVISM.

STAFF AND STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO  WALKED OUT OF CLASS LAST THURSDAY.

[CHANTING] >> Lou: THESE ARE IMAGES  SHARED WITH US FROM THAT WALK-OUT.

THE GROUP MARCHED TO A MEETING  OF THE UNIVERSITY'S BOARD OF REGENTS TO DEMAND THEY CALL  FOR A CEASE FIRE IN GAZA.

PROTEST ORGANIZERS SAY THE  UNIVERSITY HAS AN OBLIGATION TO ADDRESS THE CONTINUED  OFFENSIVE BY ISRAEL IN GAZA AND THAT PROTEST WON'T END  UNTIL SOMETHING IS DONE.

IN OCTOBER LAST YEAR, HAMAS  MILITANTS SKILLED ABOUT 1200 ISRAELIS AND TOOK ANOTHER 250  HOSTAGE.

SINCE THEN MORE THAN 29,000  PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED DURING THE ISRAELI MILITARY  OFFENSIVE.

ACCORDING TO THE GAZA HEALTH  MINISTRY, THE MAJORITY HAVE BEEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.