(upbeat music) (upbeat music continues) - Mental health day.

It's a term some people use when they need a break from work.

Mental health or wellness days are becoming more popular with businesses like Nike and Microsoft offering paid time off to recharge your batteries.

In 2022, the State of Illinois decided public school kids could take up to five days off for mental or behavioral health.

And now there's a push for Illinois college and university students to get similar health days.

Ramon Diaz Jr. is a licensed professional counselor and a board member with the Illinois Mental Health Counselors Association.

Ramon, thanks for being with us today.

- Thanks for having me.

- So what are your thoughts on giving public school, college, and university kids mental health days?

- Yeah, I think that's a great question.

As a representative of IMHCA, that's short just a little for Illinois Mental Health Counseling Association.

So I'll use the short acronym for the sake of time.

I think as a representative IMHCA, I think it's important that we do support this initiative.

The mental health of students I think in our day of age is absolutely important to put front and center in conversations.

At the policy level, at the state level, and national level, I think this is something that governing boards need to be attentive to, not only in Illinois, but certainly in even districts, school boards, that needs to be continually discussed.

- And what do you think is the best way for either the government and/or schools to kind of govern these mental health days?

In terms of should they just be wide open, do what you want with the day, or should you be encouraging students to use these days maybe to get professional help or to relax, things like that?

- Yeah, I mean, I think generally speaking, certainly don't wanna initiate anyone, to suggest any real concrete policy or anything of that kind, but I think, again, as a representative of IMHCA, as a board member, we do believe that there are pretty common things that we suggest in terms of just from a clinical standpoint, what a child should be doing, student, in terms of practical day-to-day things if they're not in school.

We absolutely support routines of some kind.

Physical activity is important.

Being outside in nature.

Of course, maybe a discussion about screen time I think is always on the table as well.

Some limitations there.

And the research even currently is fairly clear on some of these concrete implementations that should be in every child's routines, if they are going to, you know, if their families are considering a mental health day.

- You mentioned children.

You know, some of these kids in college are still kids, 17, 18 years old.

Let's go back, though, to the younger kids who are in Illinois public schools and receiving mental health days.

That just started, oh, well, it's been two years, I guess.

Have you seen any kind of feedback or data on the government giving them these mental health days, as to how it's worked or how it's working?

- Yeah, that's also just a really good question.

I think, again, as a board member of IMHCA, I think that's... From what I see, I'm currently working on a PhD in neuropsychology and neurodevelopment because of some of these questions that I even had personally on what are some of these, what we call, biomarkers or developmental markers that are essential for a child to be able to properly just grow up, to be able to do the things that you and I take for granted.

You know, creative thinking, abstract thinking, doing things that are absolutely necessary for quality of life and mental wellbeing.

So having said that, I do know that the data that I see is fairly variable in terms of, it's just not conclusive one way or another.

I know Jonathan Haidt, he's a professor at NYU, and he's written a book recently referring to this younger generation that we're talking about as the anxious generation.

The book just recently was published, and he's written a considerable amount on this very topic.

So I do rely on him quite a bit when people ask me this question.

And I will say that from his data sets, it seems as though whatever the gap is when kids are not in school and how they're using the recreational time seems to be, again, the topic of screen time I think comes up.

And I think he has the data to provide justification and warrant that that needs to be reevaluated by policy makers and at the state and national level.

- At what point, whether it's school-age kids, college kids, at what point do you say, "Okay, we've had our five or however many mental health days.

We need more"?

At what point can you look at a student and say, "Okay, there's something else going on.

They may need more help than they're already receiving"?

if they are receiving help already.

- Sure.

So is the question of what warrants extra days?

Is that- - Yeah, or, you know, if taking all five days may be an indication of a bigger problem.

- Sure.

Yeah.

So I think that's really difficult to say as a clinician.

I think that, unfortunately, in our world we live in the, quote-unquote, "it depends" field.

So every child has to be uniquely evaluated.

You know, groups of symptoms need to be assessed.

And then given the five days, what are they doing in those five days?

What kinds of symptoms are presenting themselves in their behavior in those five days?

And then, of course, there has to be the environmental factors, like home life, things like that.

So I do think this is a very, I think it is an important question to evaluate by a governing board or select committee of clinicians/experts in these particular areas.

And again, at the state level, certainly at the school board level, at the national level as well, I think these are very paramount questions and discussions that we need to be having.

- Do you think that the problems and the issues that people of all ages are tackling in 2024, whether they be college students or elementary school students, do you think they're facing more issues now than maybe we had 20, 30 years ago?

Or is it just that 20, 30 years ago, the attitude was that's life, suck it up, get on with it?

- Yeah, I think it's maybe necessarily both, and I think it's the discussions that we were, we as in older generation.

I suppose I'm in the older generation now.

I'm a millennial, and I'm constantly having conversations with patients who are parented by baby boomers.

And then, of course, you move into the Gen Z and then forward, present day, Gen Z generation meaning the younger kids that we're talking about, I think it's a cross-generational discussion.

I think there was a time where mental health wasn't accessible.

The narratives, the metanarratives of what we see around Illinois in general were, you know, for a long time, we're not being allowed to discuss things like mental health and accessibility.

So you fast-forward to 2024, and the narratives have quite dramatically changed in a lot of respects.

And also some of those other more traditional narratives of what mental health is, is not, they're still very much intact.

So I think, you know, to combat the narratives I think is a very difficult thing that I tackle every day with patients and their families.

So I think that's one piece.

The other piece is, are kids dealing with different types of challenges?

I do believe that.

I think the data suggests that as well.

Again, I rely on people like Jonathan Haidt and others.

And there's many, many who follow Jonathan Haidt's work, where they talk about the social media exposure and the amount of information that the kids have available to them and at the frequency that they're being exposed to the information.

There's no precedent for that.

And so because of that, that's created considerable amount of symptoms that can be treated, are treatable, in my personal clinical opinion.

And I think that with some policies in place, I think that is one of those environment factors that could be addressed I think at the policy level, among other things.

And certainly, again, there's, of course, other adverse conditions that have always classically been an issue in the environment of a child.

Home life, things like that.

But I certainly would say the information technology is quite unique.

And I do feel for the children and young people in college, because it is something that I deal with day to day within my office.

- One of the criticisms I've seen online about these mental health days, even from people who say, "Hey, it's a great idea, but you may be setting up a child for failure because you may have mental health days in elementary school, and maybe someday in college."

But you probably, at least right now, aren't gonna have those when you get out into the quote-unquote "real world," when you're working a nine-to-five job.

What are your thoughts on this potentially being a quote-unquote "crutch" for people?

- Yeah.

No, that's a terrific objection.

And I think that is certainly one that's, again, worthy of a very significant discussion that needs to be had by stakeholders, community members, policy makers, and et cetera.

I will say that I think it's the way, whatever policy or whatever interventions, and I deal with this day to day, so I can certainly speak of this from a personal experience, anecdotally, and then also from the data.

But I think it's the outcome expectations of interventions that is important.

I often say to my patients, "What is the outcome?

What's the finish line for you and I when we work together?"

And I think the implications, the practical steps that a patient needs to, specifically, again, the college students, high school students, and younger, I think that needs to be available to policymakers and decision makers to understand what would lead someone to use these mental health days.

And then what is the practical implications of these?

And so if we're gonna assume that quality of life and wellbeing are some of the projected outcomes, then you can start to begin, when we develop our criteria, that that would ensure at least, not necessarily guarantee, but at least have a higher predictability that these children will meet this criteria so they can have a life that's worth living.

- That's very interesting information.

Ramon Diaz Jr., licensed professional counselor and a board member with the Illinois Mental Health Counselors Association, joining us from Morris today.

We appreciate your time.

Thank you very much.

- Thanks for having me again.

Have a great day.

- You too.

Ramon, I just need you to look at the camera and smile for me.

Thank you very much.

Appreciate your time.

- Thank you so much for having us, Mark.

Thanks, Mark.

- All right, take care.

Joining us now is Cobi Blair.

He is the student body president for Illinois State University.

How you doing, Cobi?

- I'm doing very good.

How about yourself?

- I'm doing well, thank you.

I know you've been at the university, you've got your degree in accounting, and you're going for your master's.

Tell us a little bit about, from your perspective, why mental health days are important for college students.

- Yeah.

So really we've seen, not just with colleges, but everywhere else in society, I think we're taking a much closer look at mental health and at how it affects people.

And so as representatives of the student body and student government, last year, we started working on this initiative to get mental health days for college students.

The reason being that, quite frankly, as it is with everywhere in society, mental health, when people have poor mental health, when there's mental health illnesses going on and stress, and all kinds of things like that, that harms people's ability to function.

And people, when they get into a crisis in the academic setting in college, there's so many things going on that, without something like mental health days that can be used to help them, it can discourage people from seeking out resources.

One of the problems that we see on college campuses all the time is even though the university might provide resources to the students, not all students might know about those resources or choose to use them.

And part of the reason why students might choose not to use them is they might say, "Well, I could go and try to sign up for these counseling sessions, but I heard that they're busy.

And I have so many things going on, I just don't have time to do that."

I think that students can be almost incentivized to ignore mental health issues rather than face them directly and get help when you need it.

So the intent behind our work with the state legislature to try and get this law changed with the mental health days bill, or now called the wellness days bill, is to make sure that students have proper access to those mental health resources, and know that they have the ability to access them without harming their academic standing.

It doesn't mean that they wouldn't have to make up any work that they might've missed if there is a mental health day that's taken, but it does mean that they have the opportunity to get that help, without meaning that they have to get a zero on those assignments.

And I can speak a little bit more about how that might work, because what I'm referring to is one way that colleges and universities would be allowed to implement the policy, and there's another way as well.

And we can get into that whenever you like.

But that was the main reason behind it, is to ensure that there is adequate access to those resources.

- I know that State Senator Dave Koehler has helped you guys with this cause.

How has support been from Illinois State University, the higher-ups?

What do they think about this proposal?

- Yeah.

Well, I don't wanna speak for any particular administrator, but one of the things with student government at Illinois State University that I'm really proud of is how invested that the university administration is, both in student government and in the students in general.

We've worked with various administrators on a lot of things, and this has been one of them, and they've been very helpful in helping us see, "Well, here's the university's perspective on what this might mean if this became a law and how universities would have to deal with it."

'Cause it's not just a student issue.

You know, if we're gonna pass a law that says universities must now do this for students, well, universities have to, there are so many things they do behind the scenes that most students wouldn't think about and don't even know that's happening.

So they were very helpful in providing us that perspective and also in helping us get those connections to the state lawmakers.

I know Illinois State University, we have a whole team that is in contact with the General Assembly and with other policy makers regarding university issues.

And student government every year has a lobby day where the university, we partner with them, and we go to Springfield to talk about various issues relating to students or the university.

And so we were able to incorporate the wellness days bill into that.

So I would say ISU has been very supportive of student government in general throughout all the efforts that we take to try to make the experience better for students.

And part of my job as student body president is really to be the point of contact for that.

And my vision for student government is one that's a good campus partner.

And so that means continuing to build on that positive relationship of us supporting the university through advocating for the students, and the university helping support us and our measures.

Because without students, the university wouldn't exist.

- Cobi, let's just say it's been a while since I graduated from college.

And I'm sure a lot of people watching, it may have been a while for them too.

I talked to our counselor earlier to ask what kind of things students in 2024 are up against that may be going on in their lives, that may be different than 30, 40 years ago when people went to college.

Whether it's your own issues or maybe stories you've heard from other people, give us an idea of what college students are facing in 2024.

- Yeah, well, obviously the thing that everybody first thinks of is classwork and coursework that you have to do.

You know, that's nothing new.

That's always been a little bit strenuous.

But one of the things that I think about a lot is how society has changed so much within the past 15 or 20 years as a result of social media, smartphones, the internet, all kinds of things like that.

Humans were not designed, in my opinion, to live in that kind of a world, but we're at a situation where you don't really have a choice.

I think that impacts mental health a lot.

I think social media can impact mental health a lot.

I also think that we have, generally, as a society, begun to de-stigmatize mental health issues.

It used to be, from what I hear, decades ago, a lot of mental health issues were looked down upon in many ways, which is not the necessary approach to have.

And what I think we've seen is being more open to have that conversation about mental health.

So I wouldn't necessarily say that college students today are so much more likely to have mental health issues.

I think part of that equation is college students today are much more likely to talk about having mental health issues.

It's not that they didn't exist before, it's that they probably weren't talked about.

I think we probably have seen a little bit of a true rise in mental health due to things like smartphones.

And not that smartphones are bad by any means, but it's changed the way we communicate with people.

It's changed the way we interact with people.

And the COVID-19 pandemic as well with people having to stay home, and especially around students who had to stay home during high school, during middle school.

Those are really formative years, and that was a really big impact on their social lives and social progression.

And it's something that we've begun to see people trying to integrate into the college experience, or really integrating anywhere.

I have an internship right now with a company that has, after the COVID-19 pandemic, really embraced remote work, for those who want it.

And being in that in-person space, it's a lovely building, it's a lovely place, but it feels a little bit off, just because there's not very many people there.

And it's something I've seen a little bit in college too.

Not as much, because people usually choose to go to class, and they definitely should.

But we've seen a combination of the pandemic and the aftereffects of that and the effects that had on people's social development, issues I think relating to social media and the online world that can impact mental health, and also the fact that I think more people are talking about it.

So I think those three things combined make it a lot easier to see.

We have a big mental health problem in this generation, and I think probably in generations past it was a problem as well.

It's just, I don't think we talked about it as much.

So our focus is on trying to figure out, well, what can we do to try to make it better for students as their representatives?

And we think that this wellness days bill that Senator Koehler and Representative Sharon Chung have been so helpful with us on is a way that will help benefit students, being able to take care of their mental health, while still being able to progress academically.

- And we hope, well, if this bill is passed and it is made law, we hope that when students do use these mental health days, they're using them really to get better and not just a sick day or a hangover day or anything else like that.

And I'm sure that's something that your group has discussed in trying to make this something that is not one day of a mental health day or a wellness day, but something that can be used to make the student better in the long run.

- Exactly.

That's the exact intention of the policy.

And that is a conversation that we've definitely had.

It's not just student input.

You know, this bill, through Senator Koehler and Representative Chung, we've had a lot of stakeholder impact as well.

It's not just students.

It's also universities, it's faculty.

It's all kinds of the stakeholders involved, having that conversation.

That's come up definitely a lot.

And so that's a good segue, I think, to get into a little bit of what the language says right now.

So big thing, because a lot of colleges/universities operate differently, they're different sizes, is if we're gonna put something into law, we have to make sure it's workable.

The last thing we want to do is demand something be changed, and all of a sudden, well, it's not practical.

And so it doesn't actually help students, and it just makes life harder for colleges and universities.

Right now, the current language in the bill gives universities three choices on how they can implement the policy.

The first option would be to allow students to take up to two mental health days a semester, essentially on their time, when they need it, the goal being that they will do that to then use that time to get access to mental health resources in order to improve their situation.

The other option is that universities could schedule two days out of a semester as closure days and perhaps frame that as a way to say, "Hey, on this Friday we're gonna be closed.

Here's a reminder of these resources.

You might be in need of them.

Please take them."

The third option is a combination of the two.

They could have, say, one day of scheduled closure and another day where a student could take at their will.

So that is the way that it's set up now.

We want it to be workable for colleges and universities, while still being able to provide that benefit for students.

Obviously, nothing can ever be guaranteed to never have someone who might want to abuse it.

But for the most part, I believe that having this is going to give students that opportunity to get help that they might need desperately in that situation.

- Well, Cobi, that's a lot of great information, and you guys seem to have the ball rolling on this and have thought about it quite a bit.

So we will see what the legislature does with it.

Again, Cobi Blair, student body president at ISU, thank you for your time.

Appreciate it.

- Yeah, thanks for having me.

- Back here with Phil Luciano.

And you've taught college kids for quite a while.

I'm sure you've seen and heard things that might make you think, "Hmm, they need a mental health day."

- Yeah, it's one of those things, though, that, you know, any outside help or additional help that can be added into the whole thing that they go through is great.

'Cause, you know, like, 27 years I've been teaching college, right?

And sometimes I can hone in and see that something's amiss, but I'm not a professional.

And I'll talk to students if they bring something to me, and that happens once in a while.

But I'm not really sure how to do that exactly.

So whenever there's anything else that can add to that.

And these young people, you know, you can say, "Well, they're adults."

Well, yeah, they're adults in the eyes of the law, but they're just out of high school in a lot of cases.

So it's great to hear about new ideas.

- Sure.

Well, coming up in just a few minutes, we've got another episode of "You Gotta See This."

- This is an oldie, but a goodie.

It is.

We have a story that kicks it off.

It's about an autistic gentleman who gets the ride of his lifetime on a monster truck.

And to see his joy, you're gonna like to watch this.

And you've got a good spot on Beekeeper.

- Yeah, we talk about the importance of bees, and we talk to a local beekeeper at an apiary.

- Apiary.

- Apiary.

- Not apes, but bees.

- Not a harry ape, apiary.

And- - It freaked you out kind of, a little bit?

I mean, a lot of bees.

- A little, but I got in the bee costume and the bee suit and all that stuff.

So yeah, it's worth seeing.

- Yeah, check it out.

Check out all the bees in the apiary.

- That's right.

Not the birds, though, just the bees.

All right, thanks for joining us.

We appreciate it.

"You Gotta See This" is next.

Check us out anytime at wtvp.org and on Facebook and, dramatic pause, Instagram.

Have a good night.

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