(ambient inspirational music) - Welcome to "Business Forward."

I'm your host, Matt George.

Tonight is a first, this is the first of a two part series on branding.

We've got the guy here via Zoom, David Brier, Chief Gravity Defyer, my favorite title of all time, "Rising Above the Noise.com" author, the man.

What's up David.

- Hey man, how are you?

I'm great, I'm I'm great.

It's in the middle of our, everyone getting out and starting to live again, I love it.

- Well that's what I was just wondering, I mean, have you been doing any type of traveling or anything like that with your business?

- Oh yeah, well actually I spoke for the first time in 18 months, so I actually had a live speaking gig in Montana in front of actual live breathing people, not in front of a bunch of Zoom screens, and so it was fabulous and it was overlooking Whitefish Lake and it was absolutely glorious, had a fabulous time.

- That is awesome.

So, you know, Grant Cardone of 10 X Fame calls you the branding genius, and he actually, that's one of my favorite books, and so I've brought this up before, but it's pretty cool to be associated with the Daymond John's and the Grant Cardone's, I mean those people are movers aren't they?

- Well yeah, well, they're movers, they're tireless, they're relentless, the one thing that I love to remind people of, is that these guys, as big as their stars have gotten, they aren't now just coasting, they're working as hard or harder than they ever did before.

So it's just kind of like when you start that ripple effect, when you start moving your own mountain in the world, get ready to just be doing it more, you know?

So you better love the hustle and love the journey, love the discoveries, love the wins and the defeats, you know, it's all part of the journey, you don't get every ball through right in the hoop or you don't like get every score, but it's like, okay, good, what did I learn from that?

how do I refine it better and better and better and better, but when you're sharing the knowledge, that's where it gets amazingly rewarding, that's when you go, wow, it didn't only work for me, cause that winning is not a solo game, that's like it's man, is it incredibly rewarding when you start helping others.

I mean, I love getting texts from my clients, I mean, I get texts that go, "David just close the $250,000 deal, "hey David we just closed the largest deal "in the history of our company."

I mean that, how rewarding is that?

- Yeah, well, that's what you do, you know, I had Kevin Harrington from "Shark Tank" on the show and he had talked about how many times in a month, or how many times in a year that you lose, but it actually, for a lot of people, a lot of entrepreneurs that is the fuel that gives, just kind of like of a world-class athlete, it gives them the fuel to sit there and say, you're not gonna beat me tomorrow, you're not gonna beat me again the next day, and that's exactly what you're saying with these guys.

- Yeah.

Well, I mean, I have a little mantra that people, it's the opposite of what people think, my mantra is be your own worst enemy.

- [George] Yeah.

- And what I mean by that is you talk to any world-class athlete, entrepreneur, leader, artist, creator, inventor, whatever, and their last high, their last milestone, their thing is good, how do I now eclipse that?

Because if they don't have that viewpoint of eclipsing that, someone else is gonna do it for you.

- Right.

- And even when Steve jobs was developing the iPad, which, check this out, it's only 11 years ago that he was still alive and actually introduced the iPad.

- That is crazy.

- Is that amazing, like it would seem like long ago, but to me that I'm always rather astonished, 2010 and with 2010, he releases that, but I remember in the development of it, they finally got it, they worked it out, they got exactly where they wanted to for version 1.0, and after he thanked the team, his thing was good, now show me version 2.0 and version 3.0.

(laughs) Because the thing is that you do have to be ready, if you are an entrepreneur, if you're a leader, you have to be ready to obliterate and make obsolete your previous breakthrough.

- Yeah.

You know, it's funny, cause you're saying that, and you know, I told you I run a nonprofit, and I was sitting here thinking about all of the leaders, no matter what sector of business you're in.

This last year, you couldn't let off the gas pedal, I mean, you, you actually as a CEO for me, I sat here, I went into a different drive, I drove my wife and kids crazy, but I went into a different drive, because I knew I had to work two and a half, three times harder than what I did the year before, and I think that's the same mindset what you're talking about.

- Yup.

But hey look, the bottom line is, is do you see anybody, when you look at this at the guys, the investors in "Shark Tank," do you see any of those guys just sitting there boringly just coasting by?

Heck no, they're hungry, they're looking for, boom, they're looking for something to blow their socks off so they could reignite their fire and they're ready to go all in all over again.

So it's the same thing.

- I had a buddy at Seal Team Six and their motto is "all in all the time," I always love that.

So let's talk about today's topic, and I think we could talk hours on this, but the difference between marketing and branding and what fits your business best for success.

Because I think a lot of people go into with the entrepreneurial mind or even running established business, they sit there and they kind of, it's a gray area of what branding is and what marketing is, right?

- Yeah, completely.

So, all right, let me give you some parameters, so the first thing is, marketing has the job of getting the stuff out there, let's understand the role marketing's job is to get the stuff out there, to get the promotions out there, to get the dissemination out there, to get the information out there, it's not their job to create the brand, which is what's our role in the world?

How are we different?

How are we unlike everyone else?

How are we not gonna blend in the sea of noise?

How are we gonna rise above the noise?

That's the job of branding.

So branding is done first, it is then handed off to marketing to now get it out there, incorporated into actual promotions and offerings and such like that.

And the thing is this sometimes that I've seen it, and it's like, for CEOs, business owners who don't understand the difference, they say, well, all right, let's have marketing, they'll develop the brand, they're confusing marketing messages with branding, branding has a job, branding comes down to four words, which I cover in my book, my book, "Brand Intervention," the art of differentiation, that's what branding does, it is the art of differentiation, we fail to differentiate, we die, that means we're seen as the same, we sound the same, there's no perceived difference, and when there's no perceived difference, we leave the customer to basically create the story for us, and if there's no story worthwhile, they're gonna basically look and go, well, since there's no apparent difference, which one's cheaper?

And they're not doing that because they're cheap or they're pinching pennies, no, they're looking for a difference, and if we as the company owners, those putting brands into the market, if we have failed to do that for them, giving them the difference, they're gonna do it for us by saying, "okay, I can't tell a difference, "which was cheaper?"

So at least then there's a point of difference for them.

- So you have to have the brand before you can execute the marketing, that's what you're saying.

Are there exceptions to that or is that just a no, this is what it is, because I think there's some business people that I talk to that will sit there and go straight, we need a website, we need social media, we need all of these different things, and they really don't know what they're talking about.

- Correct, and they don't know what they're talking about.

There's three parts to this whole thing, so one is, well, let's just drive sales, you'll have people who are just sales oriented, like let's just drive sales.

The greatest brands in the world, were not built on the shoulders of sales teams, and the greatest brands in the world actually sell less, sell less.

Do any of us walk in to an Apple store to be sold?

No, we walk into an Apple store to pick, we've drunk the pool (indistinct), we love it, we think it's great, and it's like, okay, this is awesome, and what do they have?

They have people in there who were there to help us on our journey, oh, you're into videos, or you're into music, or you're into gaming, or you're into creating XYZ.

So the thing is, is that, do we go into an Apple store to be sold?

No, and so we go in already, we're sold, and the good brands, the great brands do the same thing, we go into the store, we want those Nike sneakers, we want that Under Armor, here, bang.

it's like Under Armor, I think I got the logo somewhere around here, right there, bang, there it is.

Yeah, we got our Under Armour thick.

Oh, I want that Under Armor because I liked the way it fits, I like the way it hangs, I like the feel of the material.

So the greatest brands in the world brand.

- You know, I was thinking, when I was driving to the studio today, I was thinking about this conversation, and the brand that comes to mind the most, and it kind of, you use Apple, it's a perfect example, but it's Harley Davidson, I mean, you just don't walk into a Harley Davidson store and say I'm just looking around.

(laughs) - Yeah, you're already in voluntarily like frothing, you're already salivating, it's like, okay, which one?

it's not an if it's which, right?

- Right.

- You're going to go, am I gonna get this watch, am I gonna get that watch, am I going to get this bike or gonna get that bike, you know, blah, blah, blah, so absolutely perfect example.

- Like what tools are out there to, like if someone wanted to manage their brand, what tools are out there to manage your brand?

Because I think most businesses, they sit there and say, we are hiring a marketing person, but they don't think of the other piece of it or they, and so I've kind of struggled with this question and I don't even know if I'm saying it right, but how do you even manage what you don't know?

- It's a very good and a very important question, and here's the deal, I found that to be a very frustrating point, because I would talk to entrepreneurs of all sorts, and whenever I take on a client, I'm dealing with a CEO, I'm dealing with the individual, who's got skin in the game, this is what gets them up at night, it's what gets them up in the morning, right?

It's what just gets them up, it drives them, they love it, passion.

Now, how do we turn that into something intelligent?

The biggest thing is that oftentimes, and this is the poison in the whole thing, there are these agencies who do it right supposedly, or there's these hacks or these little tools or blah, blah, blah.

This is my personal philosophy, that intelligence is the ultimate shortcut, insight is the ultimate shortcut.

So what I did when I started seeing all of this junk that was out there, I put together based on my book, I put together an eight week masterclass, it actually walks people through, and it has been remarkable watching, because I'm dealing with entrepreneurs from around the world, and it's amazing to see one what they don't know, but they first of all know it's very safe, because not only is there the program itself, the actual content, but every Saturday morning, we get together for two hours, and it's like, there's no safety net, there's no script, it's like, all right, I'm here to make sure that you have complete and utter certainty on what we've just covered there, and they just go in and well, you know I saw this and it made sense to me, but I have no idea how I can apply it to my industry.

Well, I have the advantage of working with brands for 41 years, I've worked in brands and practically every industry, every geographic zone, every size of company, big, small, hyper aggressive, slower and more incremental growth.

And so I have the advantage of seeing every possible scenario, and I love it because I never know what I'm gonna be shown, what I'm gonna be presented with, and we always one for one nail it, because I have one thing that I always will tell people.

I say, you guys are here because you think you need a brand, I'm here to tell you your brand needs you, and I'm here to give you back to you, so you can empower your brand, that's what I tell them.

- Oh wow, that's cool.

- That turns their heads inside out, and they're like, oh my God, and it gives them the know-how, because if they don't have the know-how they're going blind, it's kind of like, I have no idea where I am, I'll just follow whatever the GPS tells me on my car, and I'm hoping that it's telling me the right thing, on who wants to be a puppet.

And so I approach the standpoint that knowledge is gonna be your saving grace, that's gonna be the thing that you'll be able to actually navigate, why is it working when it's working?

Why is it not working?

Oh, wait a second, this isn't getting traction, what did we change?

Oh, we went off brand, we did this little pivot, we thought we needed to do a little special offer because so-and-so guru said, hey, here's a little offer you should do, and you'll always see an uptake with that little offer, and those little mindless, little stupid tricks, those are the things that erode and eat away at the brand, and so knowledge to me is really the saving grace.

So you need something that's gonna give you the power, to know why is it working?

Why does branding work?

Why does branding not work?

What are the enemies to branding?

And there's not a single company, and I'll tell you right now, of the 33 entrepreneurs that have graduated from that program already, they've generated over $19 million in sales, just as an example.

- Wow, wow, well, you just said 41 years, so I'm just gonna kind of make up this question.

How do you over those 41 years, how do you appeal with what you do, to a new audience with your brand?

Like how can you sit here and not get stuck?

- It's the same thing, I occasionally look at that myself, and it's the same thing that I tell people, it's like, I remember the Beatles were interviewed once and said, so what was the thing?

What was the secret source?

And they had a very simple answer, we were always curious, and the best entrepreneurs are always curious, the best creators are always curious, the best rebels are always curious, the best innovators are always curious.

So don't get into a, I'll grind different day, same old, yeah.

- Groundhog day.

- Yup.

(laughs) - So how does, I guess this is what you're saying, because my next question was, how does a business stay relevant every day, and keep it in your head every day, that this next day is just as important as the last, and we have to keep pressing that gas pedal.

- Well, it's like I said a little bit ago, I mean, in terms of you gotta be your own worst enemy, it's like, I have to be willing to completely crush my previous high, I have to be willing to crush my last, great, most amazing experience for a customer, or a client or those that I serve, whether it's internal or external the organization, how do I make it just remarkable.

- [George] Gotcha.

- And here's like my little thing that I asked myself, who said it was okay for ordinary to be ordinary?

- (chuckles) Yeah.

- Where did that standard come from?

I'll give you a super simple example, I mean, and it is very funny, as smartphones were kind of becoming like the thing before, when they went from flip phones, smart phones, and then you search people's ID and you knew who was calling.

So I remember seeing like when it started to become, oh, I can see that it's you Matt who's calling, so I just started to do this, and I just did it as a little bit of a little prank, I was like, I'd answer the phone, I go, hello, Matt George's dedicated hotline.

(laughs) And they would respond the way you just did, they would laugh.

- Yeah.

- And I was like, that's kinda cute, well, let's see, what did that take me?

That took me about one and a half seconds longer than me saying hello.

So let's look at the investment, let's look at the ROI, took me that much, one, it displayed it that I actually recognize you, that you're important, you're relevant to this conversation, I'm glad you're here, and it's kind of just saying, hey, how you doing, man?

And it's not taking things so seriously, and just that little gesture just became like the standard, and people just love it, because they feel like wow, and as I've become, my star has gotten bigger and stuff like that, people are like oh, wow, and then when someone says, oh, wow, David's calling, David recognized me, David's says, oh, hello, Amelia's dedicated hotline, hey, Deb's dedicated hotline, Sherry's dedicated, I mean, whatever it's like, and I do it sincerely, not mockingly, I do it sincerely, and taking that moment to just say, you know what, it's worth taking that extra moment to recognize that you exist, because life is too freaking serious.

- Right.

- So let's just go for it.

So just that little bit.

So I took something that was ordinary, which was hello, and turned it into Matt George dedicated hotline, that's raised the bar, Oh, let's do something extraordinary.

So I look at every granular opportunity, can I hold the door for someone better?

Can I thank them more nicely?

Can I actually deliver a higher value than I would have otherwise?

Whatever's ordinary, to me, ordinary is a death sentence, expected is a death sentence, prediction is a death sentence, If you saw it coming, I failed, how do I surprise you?

How do I interject that element of surprise and delight where you go, oh.

- [George] Yeah.

- And do that routinely.

- You know, and COVID gave everybody, I'll use the word complacency.

COVID gave leaders reasons to not lead, for some reason, which shows that they're really not a leader, but it also gave other people who weren't labeled leaders, the opportunity to step it up and to show something, I mean you in your book and in your writings, you use the words, bold and passionate, articulate, when you're talking about brands, but you know, you alluded to it, sometimes the people are the brands and if their heads aren't in it every day and you're not using those words, and you're not thinking that way, your brand's going nowhere, you're dying.

- It's true, it's true.

I mean, people cannot think, if anybody has the idea, well, it was me, it's me, I'm a closer, you know, oh, it's like, it's me, I've got the charisma, I'm the secret source, and just believing, there's nothing, I'm all for conviction, I'm all for confidence, I'm all for certainty, but I'm not all for getting it to a point where it's complacency, like just going blindly, that's what I call lazy thinking, I call that lazy operating, you're going on autopilot, none of us can afford to go on autopilot.

So what was great yesterday may not cut it today.

- [George] Right.

- And I'm willing to every day I go, okay, what's it gonna take today to slay it?

What's it's gonna take this hour to slay it?

What's gonna take this afternoon to slay it?

- Yeah, and if more people thought that way, I think all of our businesses would be better off, right?

All right, so you say, if you discover 75% or more similar promises or claims in your business, you've got a branding problem, without throwing a business or a brand under the bus, what are claims that you're talking about?

Like, we can fix this, we can, that type of thing, or the claims, is that what you're talking about?

- Claims in this context are synonymous to cliches, it's like, we're the best, we're the most knowledgeable, we're made in the USA, we're state of the art, we're next generation, we use only quality materials.

- We're forward-thinking yeah.

(both laugh) - Or if you're in the food (indistinct), we're non-GMO, we're locally sourced, we're grass fed, we're sun ripened.

To me, here's what I do for any of that, if you can add, I sure hope so, (George laughs) to the end of any of those, for your viewers right now, if they (indistinct), it's like bang, take any one of your claims, and if your customer, your prospect can say, I sure hope so, I sure hope it's quality material, I sure hope it's the best that you can get, I sure hope that it's pure water, I sure hope that it's fresh (words are drowned by other speaker), I sure hope it's fresh food, fresh food, is that true?

Am I coming to you for spoiled food?

I mean, so there are things that are just kinda dawn, we've just kind of dawn on autopilot, man, it's just like, no, look at it realistically.

So that's what I mean, you can literally add that, that could be your acid test, you go okay, I sure hope so.

(laughs) - I think that is hilarious, and now I'm gonna be on the lookout for what you're talking about, because, the thing I get sick of all the time is farm to table, everything now is farm to table, it's amazing how many of these restaurants have access to farms everywhere you go.

(laughs) - Yeah.

I know.

- Oh, that's funny.

So-- - You gotta outsmart the lazy.

- Well, that's true.

What role does social media have with your brand?

I know it's a big one, but what's the simple answer?

- The simple answer, I'm gonna give you the most useful answer, the most useful answer is this, social media is a channel of communication, it will do nothing for you unless you actually have put something there for it to do with, and what I mean, that's again the difference between branding versus marketing, it's like, it's the same marketing, okay guys, get under promotion, it's like, but what's our point of difference, why should someone care about our offering versus what else is out there?

Well, oh, well, they'll offer lower price.

- [George] Right.

- What?

- So that's the thing, so it's really recognizing that Instagram will do nothing for you, unless you've done something for it first, which is branding, YouTube will do nothing for you, unless you've done something first, which is branding, TikTok will do nothing for you, it's like just someone just show up in TikTok and do a little video and (indistinct chatter) or do whatever they do.

Why?

- I think what's interesting is when someone watches this show, this episode, they are going to sit there and say, I'm gonna have to rewatch this and take notes, because I think there's a lot of entrepreneurs out there right now, that I've talked to, that that are looking at this.

I'd like to thank David Brier, Chief Gravity Defyer as our guests tonight, you're coming back, so I'll see you soon, and thank you, this is another episode of "Business Forward."

(ambient inspirational music) All right let's just roll right into the next one.