(bright exciting music) - The number of homeless people in the US shot up 12% last year compared to 2022.

That number is now at 653,000.

Tonight we're gonna talk about homelessness in Central Illinois, and a controversial proposal to ban encampments in public areas, which could mean fines and possibly jail time for violators.

Joining me are people in the trenches trying to help those in need.

Jay Curley is with the Salvation Army.

Jessica McGhee and Kshe Bernard are the co-founders of LULA Peoria.

Thank you all for coming in.

- Hi, thanks for having us.

- Thank you.

- First of all, ladies, if you could tell us a little bit about LULA, and explain to people what it is your group does.

- Yeah.

- So LULA was founded to fill the gaps that were exposed, especially during the COVID pandemic.

We were both volunteers at Jolt Harm Reduction, and outreach completely shut down, all the social services shut down, including people's only access to food, bathrooms, most shelter, anything you could think of.

And so we started a fundraiser for sandwiches, and that turned into- - We tried to raise like $800 to buy sandwiches for like a couple of weeks, and we raised $8,000.

And I always say like, Kshe is the heart and I'm the logistics.

I was like, this is gonna go against my personal taxes.

(all laughing) We have to do something with this money, so we started a nonprofit, and we've continued the work ever since.

- That need is still there, even after the pandemic, I'm sure.

- [Jessica] 100%.

1000%.

- Yeah.

- Absolutely.

We still like catch the people in the gap, and so we provide tents, sleeping bags, water, sack lunches that we actually collaborate with other community partnerships to distribute and connection to care and services.

- Okay.

We've had a lot to talk about tonight, so I hope we have enough time to get to everything.

Jay, I wanna talk a little bit about the Salvation Army, and what it is the Army does.

I think your organization's pretty well-known for helping people in the community, but what specifically with homeless people and people that are in bad economic shape?

- Mm-hmm.

So we at Salvation Army, believe every community member in Peoria and the greater area deserves life as God intended it, which is provided their basic needs, and to be able to thrive under whatever circumstances that they have.

So we provide lots of services, that includes our low barrier men's shelter, that we can have up to 45 guys.

A little plug for 2025, we do intend to build a larger men's facility to double our capacity because of the rise in the levels of homelessness, and where it used to be, we would be at half capacity during the summer months.

And it seems like the need is so big that we continue to be at a max capacity regardless of the season.

- So are you actually turning, having to turn people away?

- Yes.

We are at capacity most nights, and have to turn at least a couple people away.

- Why do you think that is?

The amount of people that need help?

- So I do think the economy is a difficult thing, being connected to like food resources, like our food pantry numbers, in addition, we do like monthly food pantry for people and for people that may be living in the tents, or don't have their own place to live, we offer a modified food box that would include more ready to eat meals, not your freezer goods, and refrigerated goods, but more canned goods and ready to eat stuff.

So we have that.

We have opened up our Wednesday hot lunch that's gonna be going at one o'clock every Wednesday.

So we're welcoming anybody in for a hot meal.

And then we also do case management for people in our homeless shelters and for people in the community as well.

- The economy has been a big issue, especially over the last few years with inflation, and everything else, and I'm wondering, ladies, you've been on the ground, you've talked to people who are experiencing these bad circumstances.

What are some of the things that you're hearing in terms of why people are homeless, why they don't have money?

What are some of the things you're hearing out there?

- Well, I think it's important to note that LULA serves our most chronically unsheltered.

- [Mark] And what do you mean by that?

- They are the hardest to house.

They are the most marginalized, vulnerable, and least resourced.

So they are facing barriers that even like people that are fit for Safety Net.

And I wanna give a shout out to Safety Net too, because we work closely with them to get people in, and I know they're past capacity, but we're grateful for that service.

But the people we serve have the most barriers.

There might be mental health, there might be substance use disorder, there might be longterm incarceration.

So there's all sorts of barriers.

Every person experiencing homelessness, their experiences are different.

It's a multifaceted and complex situation.

But I mean, sometimes it was people that were staying with parents, and that their parent passes, and then they can't stay in the apartment, or stay anywhere, really.

And that's kind of where we catch them.

- And I think because Kshe is the primary person who does outreach, and then I've been going out with her once a week just collecting information, and one of the things that keeps popping up is people who age out of foster care, who maybe mentally are very young.

And so I equate it to saying like, you meet somebody who's 35 years old, but mentally they're like 10, and it's like putting a child out on the street.

They can't read, they can't navigate systems that are difficult for people who are well-resourced to navigate.

And we're like, well, get a job, you know, go find housing, go get these resources.

But it's literally like having a child on the street.

We wouldn't do that to a child, but we think because physically these people are grown, that they are just like us, and have the same opportunities and resources, and that's just not what we're seeing.

- Well I think there's a narrative out there, and hopefully it's getting better.

I don't know if it is or not, a narrative out there that people are lazy, they don't wanna work, they don't wanna follow the rules of the shelters, they like being independent.

I'm not sure how that works, not having a roof over your head, but enjoying your independence.

As far as mental health and substance abuse, I just wanted to throw out some figures from the US Department of Housing and Urban Development.

31% of homeless had a serious mental illness.

One in five homeless have a substance use disorder.

Now that's certainly a lot, but it's not the majority.

So we're seeing plenty of folks out there who have fallen on hard times who aren't mentally ill, aren't addicted to drugs and alcohol.

Maybe they just were in a bad financial situation.

A lot of people these days are one paycheck, one disaster away from being homeless.

And I'm curious what your thoughts are on those perceptions, and the people that you run into and what they're facing.

- Yeah, I think that it's really difficult out there, that the level of trauma that some people have been through in the foster care system, leaving foster care, or even just, it's a hard society to live in these days.

And even if you make enough money, everybody's feeling the squeeze at the grocery store.

But I mean, mental health is more available now, but I think the levels of trauma that people have been through, whether it's just from being homeless or the circumstances that might have worked them towards homelessness, 'cause sometimes it's a lot of things that all turn into somebody being unhoused, or it could be like you get laid off from one job and then you can't pay the bills, and then you fall behind and it just happens gradually.

So I just, I feel like it's up for us to be in the community, to help people be able to be happy, feel loved, and have those basic human needs that everybody should be provided in life.

And I think it's gonna take everybody and then some in the community to make sure that even the people that only have a tent over their head is cared for and feels valued in some way.

- Well, how do you think the community, and we'll ask about LULA, how people have reacted to what you're doing?

Do they understand what you're doing?

Do they understand that there's that problem out there?

- Yeah, I think, I mean, it's probably split and I do wanna go back and readdress the substance use, and- - [Mark] Sure.

- Concurrent mental health.

The people we serve, I think those rates are much higher because those are probably self-report numbers.

And it's hard for people to admit that, yes, I have a significant mental illness, and or I'm struggling with substance use disorder.

The people we work with, I would say those numbers are much higher, and that kind of contributes to being chronically unsheltered.

And as far as he was saying with how expensive everything is, we provide snack packs on the weekends, and that's like shelf stable goods to kind of help supplement getting them through the weekends, and those costs have skyrocketed.

Like, even we are feeling the pinch.

We are all donation based.

Everybody there, including us, we don't take any sort of payment or salary, and it's a struggle.

Sometimes we panic and as winter comes, we need more tents and sleeping bags and stuff like that, and it gets scary.

But as far as the community, I think there's two camps.

- Right.

(all laugh) - So to speak.

- Yes.

And one is the pull yourself up by your bootstraps camp, and I'm like, they don't even have boots.

They don't even have shoes, and we're providing their socks.

So there's no boots.

Not everybody has boots.

And then of course there's the people with kind and generous hearts, and we are forever grateful for those people.

- And I think I'm actually almost kind of grateful for the pull your bootstraps up people, because they tend to be very public and dismissive in their comments, and I think that's such a great opportunity for education.

And so, and especially if that's online where lots of people can see.

- Yeah.

- So if there's an article online, or a news story, you're always gonna find me in the comments, because I enjoy the opportunity to educate people.

You know, we hear all the time that people who are panhandling are all getting into Mercedes, and like nice, I mean, we literally hear it all the time though, right?

And it's wild to me that we hear that all the time, but she and I don't see that, and we're out there all the time.

And so it's just a really- - Five days a week.

- Yeah.

She's out there five days a week, if not more.

And so to be able to go, well, did you see that?

You know?

And then can we also talk about like labor trafficking, which also is something that happens.

Yeah, somebody might pull up and pick you up in a car, and you're being forced to go out and panhandle for that person, which is absolutely a thing that happens.

And so the pull your boot, pull yourself up by your bootstraps camp, when they're very public and dismissive in their comments, is honestly one of my favorite things, because it's more of an educational opportunity than a comment that says, you're doing great work, you know?

- Sure.

Well, and that kind of transitions into one of the reasons why we're doing this interview.

In July, or excuse me, in June, the US Supreme Court had their decision that ruled that cities have the right to criminalize camping on public property.

So when you're out there, when you're driving down 74 and you see tents, you know, on the side of the interstate, technically those people can be first, I believe, fined, and then eventually can serve jail time if they've had enough tickets or whatever.

Now Peoria has discussed this, the city council has, they have not made a ruling on it or anything yet.

They took it up in late August.

And so as we record this, nothing has been set in stone, but we do know that Pekin city council, Morton, Bloomington, they have these laws going right now.

What are your thoughts on this potential ordinance?

- I will let you go first.

- Okay.

(all chuckling) So, as the seasons change right now, my first thing is people, for us community agencies, people are easiest to help if you can find where they're at.

- [Kshe] Absolutely.

- Speaking for community outreach, people tenting on public ground in plain sight.

We, as agencies, can do outreach and try to provide services out into the community, where it comes a little more difficult if they're dispersed and they go throughout the community, and they have to be more creative and hide in more remote locations.

As the weather gets more difficult, there could be more fatalities, and you could see homeless deaths rise as a side effect of not being able to be in larger groups or be closer to the service providers that are helping them survive.

- Absolutely.

- So you agree with Jay's stance on this potential ordinance?

- Absolutely.

We actually held city council for six hours, or maybe they held us, (Jessica laughs) because they didn't accept public comments.

- [Mark] Lots of people speaking out?

- Yeah.

- Until later.

But as somebody who's been in the encampments for over five years now, it's cruel and inhumane.

If they had somewhere to go, they would go, and sweeping them under the rug does not solve the homeless problem.

It simply hides it and makes them harder to access.

There was a very well-known encampment under the 74 bridge, and we had, at highest count, I think we had 44 people under there, and it was amazing, because all the service providers were able to go there.

The housing group was able to go there, we were able to deliver services there.

I know Salvation Army walked down there.

We collaborate with OSF Street Medicine.

So we were able to get the street medicine team in there.

We were able to manage donations.

It was everything that we would love to see service providers be able to do.

And we did not lose anyone at that camp because they were in community.

People are safer together.

If there's a medical emergency, there's somebody there to assist or call for help.

And if we force them into hiding, we are going to lose them.

And this is our least resourced most marginalized people.

I literally cannot think of anything more ill-advised and or cruel.

- And I think also, so part of the reason, again, that I go out with Kshe on outreach is to collect information.

And so I'm interviewing the residents of these encampments and I'm asking them, I mean, first of all, Jay already said they're at capacity.

That's not the only shelter that's at or over capacity right now.

So the shelter is not an option for everyone.

But we also have multiple people in tents who are on housing lists.

So they can't get into the shelter, they're waiting for housing, but now they're going to be fined or potentially jailed for being outside.

So what is the answer?

And we've asked officials, where should they go?

And no one has an answer for us.

So this is not, this is a shortsighted solution.

It's not a solution, and it doesn't match up with reality.

We're literally, Kshe is going out there, she's connecting people with services.

You have people who are providing shelter that are at capacity.

You have people who have nowhere else to go, and we're trying.

And so we are actually in favor of a transitional encampment, which would be allowing people to camp in one or two spots publicly so that all the social service agencies can go to them, and so that we can make sure you're on the housing list, you have access shelter, you have access to medical care.

You know, one thing that we actually looked into was the medical care cost, and medical care costs actually went down with people who were able to get service from providers who knew where they were.

And I mean, we're talking like skyrocketing, like ambulance costs, emergency room visits, lack of care infections, things like that that were untreated because people are on the street.

Once we were able to start getting to people with medical care, all of those costs went down, and that's the OSF street team specifically.

Medical costs went down.

So being able to find people, you're actually like economically, that's a better move for the city as well.

- And it cuts costs as far as like law enforcement calls, because I think we know that law enforcement has better things to do with their time and resources than go to these calls where they're not necessarily needed.

We do have a crime problem sometimes, and that's not happening in the camps per se.

So it just, it saves so many of the city resources and we often get pushback about the trash in camps, but if we had a transitional encampment, and what we mean when we say transitional, it's not necessarily meant to be like they stay there forever.

It's until they can get into shelter, it's until they can get into housing.

It's just keeping them safe until they can transition out.

But if we could provide trash services to the encampment, because the city quoted in the city council meeting the cost of trash removal from these encampments, but you have no idea the hoops I in particular jumped through to try to get someone to allow us to use a dumpster.

If you don't want trash going all over them, going into people's dumpsters.

And I just wanna publicly say the fact that they're using someone's dumpster does kind of combat that narrative that they don't care, and they just throw trash everywhere.

Another thing we provide is trash bags for them to put their trash in, but if there's no, they're not allowed to put it anywhere, what are they supposed to do?

But we would be able to have trash service there.

We'd be able to have restrooms there, because, you know, that always gets brought up, too.

But it would provide such better care for the community as a whole.

- I think also, like one of the most heartbreaking things that I will see that just flies in the face of what people's perception and idea is, is that we provide these garbage bags, these contractor bags, and people will go through their camp and clean it all up and they'll set the bags aside, and in the middle of the night, raccoons come through and tear everything apart, because they're not, they're literally not allowed to walk across a parking lot to put the bag in a dumpster.

So it's just like, it just doesn't make sense.

- [Mark] Sure.

- It's incredibly hard to experience homelessness.

And then when you're experiencing homelessness, like you don't even have a place to put your trash, you don't have a place to use the restroom, and then you get vilified for not having access to these resources.

It's hard.

- Well, you all are doing a lot with your two different groups.

Jay, it's great that the Salvation Army is expanding and gonna have more room for people, but I'm curious what you all think about, that's not solving the problem, that's helping the problem, but how do we solve the problem, or at least, gosh, knock it in half if we could, or a quarter, I mean, what needs to be done in your opinions?

- So I definitely think that it's gonna take, if they say it takes a village, good thing Peoria is bigger than a village.

It's a whole community with tons of different community players that, I mean, we have non-profits, for-profits.

We have United Way, and the COC here.

That's all very strong.

And I think like, just for our part, like we have homeless prevention dollars.

If there's anybody listening that is getting behind on rent assistance, mortgage, having trouble paying their mortgage utilities, we have case management to try to keep people that are not homeless yet, try to prevent them from being homeless.

But then even the funds that are available for homeless services, we have rapid rehousing, but unfortunately, you have to be homeless for at least 12 months in order to access those funds.

So there's plenty of gap areas, there's tons of state and federal support available to help people.

But I think there's a lot of gap areas, and I think the population we're talking about now being connected to mental health services, those as a licensed marriage and family therapist, I know that the people that need help the most sometimes, some of the most chronically mentally ill, struggle to access services on a regular basis, which puts them in a difficult spot.

And then medications, it's hard to, if you're homeless and you have to walk everywhere, and you have to worry about where you're using the restroom, it's hard to make it to fill your medications, and take them as prescribed by your doctor.

So there's tons of services out there that we as Salvation Army can provide in partnership with our other community members.

But I think there's just so many gap areas that we as a community need to band together and continue to try to solve this huge issue.

And the issue isn't going away, it's getting more and more pronounced.

- Your thoughts, ladies?

Anything else that we could be doing, should be doing?

- No, I mean, I think he hit the nail right on the head, and I'm so glad he brought up medication and how hard that is to access.

And Maslow's hierarchy of needs, like, you know, if you're hungry, you need to take care of that, then you need to use the restroom.

And appointments are incredibly hard for our unsheltered community to keep.

Almost always the first question when I get asked when I walk into camp is, what time is it?

Because even if they're lucky enough to have a phone, there's no place to charge them.

And they're barred from charging their phones in so many different places.

Like if somebody suspects that they are unsheltered, they will be kicked out.

Like, it's wild.

So they don't know what time it is.

And then we take for granted we can hop in the car.

Even a $3 bus pass is a barrier for our friends to access.

So the medication is a huge thing.

Keeping those doctor's appointments, knowing what time to take your meds.

It's a huge thing.

And we beg for collaboration all the time from other service providers, and the city.

Like we do have resources here, but we need to really put people first, and not optics.

There was a city councilperson who spoke very harshly about our unsheltered folks and he was cruel, and he was so misinformed.

It's not easy.

They're not trying not to pro socially engage in society.

They are literally being barred from it.

We need to collaborate together, and that's why those transitional encampments are such a good idea.

So we can all collaborate to serve the folks that need it most.

- Well, we all appreciate what you're doing.

Unfortunately, we're out of time.

I didn't get to everything I wanted to, but we got to a lot, and I hope people out there learned a lot about what's going on here in Peoria, and we're not that unusual.

It's going on all around the country.

So, excuse me.

Jay Curley with the Salvation Army, Kshe Bernard and Jessica McGhee with LULA Peoria.

Thanks for what you do, and thanks for coming on tonight.

- Thanks for having us.

- Thank you so much.

- Thank you for having us.

- Thank you.

- All right, and thank you for joining us.

You can catch us anytime at wtvp.org and on Facebook and Instagram.

"You Gotta See This" is up next.

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