(upbeat music) - Thanks to online shopping and changing consumer habits, we're seeing a lot of empty space at shopping malls in Central Illinois, but just because some big retailers have left or gone out of business, don't write obituaries for these cultural destinations just yet.

Julie Revallo is the general manager at Northwoods Mall in Peoria.

Good to see you, Julie.

- Well, thanks for having me.

- How was, well, we're still in the holiday season technically, you're gonna have - Yes.

- a lot of people spending gift cards and doing exchanges, but overall, how would you say, for the mall, the holiday season was?

- The holiday season has been phenomenal for the mall.

Last weekend, I checked on my numbers, and we have a tracking system, we had 14,000 visitors on Saturday, and that was amazing.

We had six different events going on that day.

I mean, so you can come to the mall for anything you want, because we had a private party for one of our councilmen, he graduated with his doctorate degree, his wife had a surprise party.

- Saw those pictures on Facebook, yeah?

- Yes, yes.

so that was wonderful.

We had arts and craft show, we had robotics competition.

We had all these young men and women engineers, you know, having robotic competition down on the lower level.

What else did we have?

We had gift wrap from Humane Society, we had the Air Force out there.

So the visitors...

I mean, the traffic at the mall's wonderful.

You know, like I said, Northwoods Mall's unusual to have that many people still shopping.

- And you've been at the mall a long time, so you've seen the ups and downs, and- - I've seen the changes.

I've been at the mall for 29 years, so I've seen so many changes, and, you know, changes, you know, they happen, good or bad.

You know, now we have a new future, you know, of the mall, because I've opened it up to...

I didn't wanna have empty spaces at the mall when a lot of those big box nationals closed.

Of course, we'll always take more nationals.

You know, we have around 39 and we have 45 local stores.

That's why I opened it up to local stores.

And in Peoria community alone, there are so many people that want to do, have their own business and be their own boss, and it's worked out.

Some of them have actually expanded.

They started out in a smaller location, expanded to a bigger location, and I make it easy for them, because I don't charge a phenomenal dollar amount when they get started.

We say, "Let's see what you can afford and see how you do," because we want them to actually make it, you know, and we don't want empty spaces at the mall.

- Sure.

And I wanna talk about the success story you've had with local businesses in just a minute, but first, since you've been there so long, at what point did you say to yourself, or did you realize, with the way things were trending, that, boy, with Amazon and stuff, we may be starting to lose a little business?

- Yes, I noticed that a lot.

I mean, we still have the traditional stores.

You can still order online and, you know, buy things, but with the local stores, you can't buy those online.

You can't go and go on Amazon, because they're unique.

Every individual is so unique to the individual that's running it, it specializes it, so if you come to Northwoods Mall, and even you come to eat, all my restaurants and my food court tenants are all local, so they're walking through, and they see a store, and they're like, "Wow, I didn't know that store was here," you know, and then they shop, so it's the foot traffic.

The foot traffic, you can go to any brick and mortar store and open your little store, but you're not gonna get the traffic like you are at a mall.

- That's right.

So Amazon, you know, is taking their cut.

Tell us about Covid and what kind of an effect positive, negative, or both, that that had - Yeah.

- on the mall?

- Wow, yeah, when Covid was going on, I still went to the mall every day.

You know, somebody had to make sure, you know, the lights were on, and kept clean, and stuff like that, so I'd go in, and it was sad, because they started doing the online, and only a few tenants, you know, did that as well, so it was, it was just kind of, it was, it was kind of drab and dark, it was kinda sad to see.

And after Covid left, there were some tenants that just couldn't make it because the people didn't come back, they were afraid.

But now it's, you know, 2024, going into 2025, it's amazing.

People are actually coming back.

I've seen it at the beginning of 2024, the crowd's starting to come back.

But where can you go, and 669,000 square foot leaseable space under one roof, where can you go and socialize?

'Cause now people are actually wanting to socialize.

Back in the day, when I started, when I used to, when I was a teenager, 45 years ago, I'd hang out at the mall.

Now I see retired people hanging out at the mall.

We open at 8:00 AM.

We actually have mall walkers every day that are there longer than I am at the mall, and it's nice, because people are socializing.

And Peoria is a such a small town, everybody is friendly, too.

You know, we have a robust community here at Northwoods Mall.

- Mm-hmm.

With the losing and, but your mall is not the only one, for sure, but losing some of the big box retailers like Macy's, Sears, you know, people on the outside looking in say, "Whoa, that looks really bad, - Right.

- but what does it actually mean for a mall your size, losing those anchor stores?

- Okay.

Well, Sears, unfortunately, is owned by Transformco, so I can't lease that space, Sears has to lease it, so that makes it difficult.

Now, Round 1, we did rent that to Tilted 10, which is a great family entertainment.

We've got 14 full-sized bowling alleys, we have the miniature bowling alleys, four of those for kids five and under, with the smaller, you know, balls, we have two miniature golf courses, we have virtual reality, we have all the games, so that's the entertainment center, so that's, you know, the inside of Northwoods Mall, and everything in the future looks like entertainment, activities, you know, doing other things outside the box, not doing the same old department stores, because as we know, department stores, you know, they're not going into malls right now.

I think in the future, they'll come back.

And then RoomPlace, it was empty, but I have Salvation Army in there.

We, you know, let them have the space for the two months, and they're giving away 20,000, you know, families presents, so right now... And then JCPenney's, I mean, wow, 51 years!

JCPenney's and Helzberg Diamonds are the only two stores that have lasted 51 years, so, - Wow!

- and JCPenney's is the only department store in Peoria, so it's still doing well.

- Yeah, so going back to that example with Sears, so it's up to them to find another tenant, - Yes.

- but in the meantime, they're paying rent aren't they?

- No, they own it.

- Oh, they own it, okay.

- That's the hard part.

Yeah.

- Is that frustrating for you?

- It is, it is, because, you know, I can't do anything.

If I could, I'd put something in there.

It's a beautiful store, Sears is, - Yeah.

- and they're not in a hurry to rent it out, I don't think, and I don't even know if it's up for sale.

They finally did sell the Sears Automotive Center, so we have Discount Tires going in there, and they've refaced, you know, surfaced that, painted it so it looks really nice on the parking lot.

And then Firestone, outside JCPenney's, that was owned by another corporation too, and I've heard through the grapevine that's been sold, so hopefully that'll be torn down, so that, you know, the beauty of Northwoods Mall will start coming back, 'cause we're trying to fix it up to make it look as good as across the street over there at Westlake.

- Sure.

All right, well, let's talk about some of these local businesses that are coming into Northwoods.

In the past, you know, back when things were booming and you had 100% capacity, - Yes.

- was rent too much for a small business to come into a big space like that?

- I'd say so, yeah.

Rent was much higher back in the day, yes, and they didn't, they just didn't reach out.

I don't think too many local people reached out.

I'd have local people coming in to rent the carts in the middle at Christmas and holidays, you know, or the arts and craft.

They would, they would, you know, they're the freestanding kiosks, but not too many people would ask about the inline spaces.

And rent was a lot higher back in the day.

- Yeah, so give us some examples, especially for folks who may not have been to the mall in a little bit, - Hmm.

Okay.

- some examples of some of those local businesses that are in the mall and being successful.

- Okay, well, we have Swaidan, it's a clothing store It started out in, like, 700,000 square feet.

They're into, you know, close to 6,000 square feet now.

He actually, you know, moved up, and he has the apparel.

We have Mabuhay, Mabuhay Leather.

She's a crafter, Abby, she owns...

It's on the lower level, it used to be Radio Shack.

She makes all homemade leather products, and if you walk by the store, just the smell of leather, it's just overwhelming, it's wonderful.

Some of the other stores, like Smo-King Pit, he's a local, you know, restaurant owner, he's done very well, been there over 20 years.

He actually expanded, you know, right before Covid, and he made it, it was, you know, so he's got the whole sit-down restaurant now.

Some of the other ones, Poppers Tea, that's in the food court.

We have a nice Chinese restaurant over there that's...

They do so well.

They've been there for many years, it's family owned.

Some of the other stores, let me think, to, to, to, to, which ones do I wanna talk about?

Explicit Boutique, she was over in the old Associated Bank space in a smaller 300 square foot.

She's now in, you know, 600 square foot space, and she does boutique clothes.

We have the Hit List Collectibles.

It's two gentlemen that just opened, - That's a fun store.

- Yeah, they just opened up, and they have the authentic jerseys, you know, signed, so that's neat.

We have, there's so many things to see.

Mini Me, it's on the other end.

They sell these little figurines of people you can, you know, they're true to you (laughs).

- I had those done for my wife a few years ago, - Yes, yes.

- my kids.

- Yeah.

So I was trying to think.

And we only have three empty stores at this time, so - That's great.

- we're not doing bad at all.

- That is great.

- So.

- Do other malls in the region, you know, we've seen are not as successful as you, don't look good from the outside, do you think they just are not getting into the entrepreneurial spirit, like you are, - I think- - by going out and grabbing these smaller businesses?

- I don't know.

They're trying.

I know I'm on, you know, conference calls with a lot of different malls.

We're a Summit property now, and there's like 27 malls, you know, across the United States, so we're on calls with them, and I give them a lot of ideas, because I've just been, I've been pretty lucky.

You know, the phone's ringing, they email me, but I'm quick to respond, I don't wait a day or two, you know, and I go out and I canvas, but I open it up to them and let them know that I'm gonna try to help them.

If you wanna do month to month, I'm not gonna make you sign a year's lease so you're stuck.

You know what I mean, let's see how you do, and then we'll keep going, going forward, so.

- When I was doing some research before this interview, I ran into something that I wanna run by you.

According to real estate consulting firm Realogic, as of January, 2022, at least 192 US malls, were planning to add housing units.

- Okay.

- Is that something that's ever crossed your mind or your parent company's mind?

- Not mine, not my mind.

I'd rather have stores and entertainment.

I like having the bowling, I like having the activities.

I know, I like to open it up to socializing.

I mean, where can you go with 669,000 square foot, you know, in retail space, and have everybody come together and socialize.

If we had, I don't know, if we had the homes, you know, if we made it into apartments, it would be a good place for them to walk, but it wouldn't be the same as a mall.

I kinda like the shopping experience, so we haven't thought about it for Northwoods Mall.

- Yeah, it sounds like it's mostly in the South, - Okay.

- where the weather's nice all year long.

- Okay.

- California, Texas, - Yeah.

- but it says 33 malls have already completed apartment construction projects since- - Yeah, no, that's, that's not for us.

I've also have different parts of the parking lot land I'm selling.

There's like five different spots, so that's, because we're like east of 74, west of 74, 150, we're right there by major, you know, and Northwoods Mall sits in the heart, you know, of Peoria, so it's just an ideal place.

- Well, that is the thing that seems like all these malls have in common, - Okay.

- They're all in great locations - Okay.

- And so... - I think what's keeping ours going is the local stores.

- Yeah.

- There was more people than I ever dreamed reached out and wanted to start their own business, so I'm kinda blessed.

- With these smaller stores, do they have to do anything different when it comes to advertising?

Because if you just drive by the mall, - Right.

- you're used to seeing, okay, anchor store name, anchor store name, - Sure.

- anchor store name, but they may not have that visibility, so do they have to do things different to try and get people in?

- They do social media.

That's huge.

Right now, social media, it's more popular than the newspaper.

You know, it's...

I mean, sure, the TV, radio's popular, but social media is just spreading.

I mean, I have a Facebook page, it's called northwoodsmall.net, and we have another Facebook just for Northwoods Mall, and you can see how many visits you got.

And we have a tracker, too.

We had 1.7 million people come to the mall year to date, last year, and like last week end, there was, you know, 14,000 people in one day.

so it's just- - That's amazing.

- Yeah, it is.

It's nice that I have this tracking system.

I can look around and see the other areas of Peoria, where people are going to and how long they're, you can see how long they're staying.

- Okay.

- Yeah, it's kinda neat.

- Some other statistics that may surprise people, foot traffic at indoor malls is up 8.6% from 2022 to 2023, and even outdoor shopping centers have seen a 6% boost, outlet malls up more than 5%, so our malls may look different these days, but, - They do.

- but again, it doesn't seem like they're going away anytime soon.

- No, they're not, it's just a, it's a great place to go, and because of the traffic, somebody might come in just to eat, and they're coming in, they notice a store, so the stores are getting, you know, they're getting sales by that, 'cause you want everybody to make money, and, you know, be profitable, so it's... And when we have the events, that's drawing people in that maybe weren't even gonna shop, and they're in the mall anyway, and they're at that, like, robotics competition, and they're like, "Oh, look at that.

Yeah, I'll probably get myself a sweatshirt or something."

- Sure, yeah.

And I've seen the mall hosting plenty of pop culture events, like, you know, comic book convention-type things, and- - Oh, that's huge.

- Yeah - Oh, that Cosplay, that is huge.

That draws in more people, almost as many people as the Santa Claus around Christmas time.

- Really?

- Last Saturday, it was more than my Cosplay, but Cosplay, a lot of people are into the Pokemon, you know, that started years ago.

I mean, my son's 32 and he's doing Pokemon now, and even when he was five, he was doing it, but there's a lot of money in it.

- Oh, yeah.

- Those cards, they're worth four or five thousand dollars if you get, you know, the good ones, Charizard.

- I'm gonna have to take your word for that.

- Yeah.

(both laugh) - I don't know who that is.

But with smaller businesses coming into the mall, you know, when you have your national chains, I'm sure that, you know, people interact, say hi, this and that, but - They do.

- but with the smaller local stores, have you seen people, like owners, really interact with some- - I do, I do, they do.

They walk the mall.

They'll come out and they'll... Like, a new store opens, they'll go in and they'll introduce themselves and say, "Anytime you need a hand," or something, and sometimes they'll have events with the locals too.

Let's say you wanna get together and have a Valentine's Day event, set up in center court and do that.

One of the newest stores we have is FrooMira, and that's a global ethnic store, so he travels around the world and gets clothes from, you know, all different countries, so that's, like, one of the newest ones.

They went into the old Express store.

- You mentioned that you've talked with other, you know, mall GMs.

Are there any ideas out there that you've heard of that you'd like to try, that you just haven't had a chance to do yet?

- Oh (sighs).

I haven't heard of anything different that I'm not doing yet, but I still, my ears are open and any idea is a good idea, so if anybody has any idea, I'd love to hear it, and I'd love to have them come to the mall and see if they can open a business as well.

- You mentioned the mall being an entertainment destination.

The new entertainment center that just opened, what, a month or two ago, - Mm-hmm.

- how is that different than the one that was there before, and the one- - Well, the best thing about Tilted 10, I'd say, is the hours.

The other one was open till 2:00 in the morning, and, you know, my dad always said "Nothing good happens after midnight."

So two in the morning was kinda... You know, you get the kids that don't have any...

They're driving around, and, you know, they're out goofing off and stuff, and they weren't coming to Round 1 to play games, they were just coming to hang out, so by closing at 12:00, I think we're getting... You know, they're open all day, up till 12 o'clock, you're getting more of the families coming, you know, the people that wanna come in and have a good time.

It's different than Round 1 because it has the miniature golf, it's got, you know, those, it has the bowling, and it does have the smaller bowling alley for the younger kids.

It has different types of games, too.

It's got the... Back in our day, probably, remember pinball?

- Oh yeah!

- We've got 15 pinball machines in there.

- Really?

- Yeah, so it's different.

Virtual reality, has some of that, but basketball, it's like going...

It has the squirt gun games.

It's for all ages.

Come over there and check it out.

- I need to.

One of my coworkers was just telling me, you know, back in the day, his family would go to the mall, look around, eat at the food court.

I recently went to one mall in our area that only has one restaurant in the food court.

- Okay - It was kinda sad.

But how is your food court looking, and what kind of food - Well, our food courts... - do you have in there?

- Yes, we have a Mexican restaurant, that's Taqueria Jalisco, and she's doing very well there.

She actually opened a second location up on Prospect, the old TNT's.

- Okay.

- Then we have Famous Wok, the Mexican restaurant that's been there, his brother's now running it, they've been there for 15 years.

We do have one opening, 'cause we had one tenant pull out and went to Washington because they wanted to sell alcohol, and I kinda try to keep my food court non-alcohol because it's an open area and I want it for families.

It just wasn't gonna work, you know.

- Sure.

- Yeah, it wasn't gonna work in our food court, So, and then, Exotic Snacks, they have 16 locations around the world, they just opened yesterday, so it's Exotic Snacks from all over the world in our food court.

- A little bit of everything.

- And then we have, and then we have Andre Ware, can't forget about him.

All right, he has a Cookie Shack.

His mother had a place in the East Bluff, it was called Ware's Cookie Shack.

He came to the mall at Christmas, and he might be staying, and he has, you know, all homemade cookies, and cakes, and goodies like that.

- That's great!

- So.

- Yeah, well, you mentioned so much square footage and it's nice to have an indoor meeting place - It is, it is.

- for folks.

- and they socialize.

People actually come to the mall and socialize.

I know, I'll walk the mall, and, you know, I know them all by name (laughs).

- Yeah.

For the future, I mean, it seems like what comes around goes around, everything old is new again.

How old is the mall?

Early '70s?

- Yeah, it's 51 years old.

- 51 years old?

- Mm-Hmm.

- Okay.

Oh, that's not that old, - Yeah, it's 51.

- Is it?

- No, no.

- Not that old.

- It's clean and it's well-built.

I mean, they didn't, they built things like brick houses back in the day, you know, it's not going anywhere.

- They really did.

When you hear about malls being under construction, it's mostly new things, not fixing things, - No.

- So- - Sometimes we're gonna have some water main breaks and things like that because the piping underground's pretty old, - Sure.

- And they used, you know, the copper, and now, of course, it's plastic.

So we have (laughs) some of that going on, but, you know, we've got some good construction companies in Peoria, local ones.

They take care of it, so.

- If you had a wishlist of businesses or types of businesses - Oh!

- that you'd like to see coming to the mall, what would be one?

- Oh, gosh, let's see.

Von Maur department store.

I'd love to see a Lululemon.

Oh, gosh, what's some other ones?

What would you like to see?

- What would I like to see?

Well, I was a big Macy's fan.

- Oh, I'd love Macy's.

- I don't know if it's ever gonna come back, - Yeah.

- but- - Yeah, I went to Chicago last weekend, and the Macy's downtown, I've never been in that Macy's.

They had the big Christmas tree - Yeah, - and the big restaurant, four-hour wait for the restaurant, - Oof!

but that was, it was like a six-level Macy's.

- Yeah, it's hard to find a- - I'd love to see Macy's come back.

- Yeah, it would be nice, because there's only so much shopping for men's dress clothes, - Yes!

- in this area, and in my opinion, it's either way too expensive - Okay.

- or it's so cheap that it's not any good, - Okay.

- so having a Macy's would be nice.

- That would be spectacular.

- Nice middle ground there.

- I'd like that too, so Macy's, if you're listening, (both laugh) come on back to Peoria.

- But Penney's is still doing well?

- JCPenney's is doing extremely well.

- That's great.

- Yes.

- When you see folks around the mall these days, what are the demographics like?

You mentioned mall walkers, which I assume would be older folks.

- Yeah, we have older retired folks there, and we just have, we have some kids come out too, but not as much as the older (chuckles), the older generation for the wall walking, you know, I'd say from 50 up to, you know, 90, so, because it's a clean area and it's, you know, it's one surface, and you can...

The thing about Northwoods Mall is the parking.

Parking is so convenient.

Even if you wanna go to one area, you can park by that area and go into, you know, have a lot of, you know, and we've got the handicapped accessible, plus we have the public transportation, so people that don't drive can still come to the mall, so, we try to make it easy for everyone.

- Was there ever a problem with Northwoods in terms of... You know, I know growing up around malls when I was a kid, eventually they were overrun with kids.

Did Northwoods ever have any problems like that?

- Well, we've had kids come out, you know, back in the day, and just, you know, but now we... Back in the day, they didn't, security and management did not let them, like, say, "Okay, I'm sorry, you gotta..." they didn't kick them out.

My rules are, and I let my security, we have 24-hour security, I say, "If there's kids running around causing problems...

It's not a library, you can make as much noise as you want and have fun, but if you're pushing each other, or you're, you know, making fun of somebody, or, you know, if you're doing anything bad, then you know what, you can kick them out, because if I get a phone call from a parent and they say, "Why'd you kick out my child?"

(laughs) I'll say, "Have you ever hung around with them at the mall?"

(both laugh) So I just, you know, I'm just pretty honest, and I haven't had any problems, but, you know, we give them chances.

- Yeah, well these days, kids are probably too busy on their iPads - Yeah.

- and everything else - Yes.

- to come to the mall and be a nuisance.

- Yeah, some of them still come.

You know, they'll come and they'll shop.

You know, we got a lot of places to buy tennis shoes, and, you know, sweatpants, and things like that, so, I'd love to get a sporting good store in there, too.

- Yeah, what kind of sporting goods store?

Like a big national type or?

- Oh, I'd love to have, yeah, I know Dick's is out at Grand Prairie, which, you know, I'd love to have in a second location in our mall.

You know, any department store.

- What about a movie theater?

Is that a good or bad thing for a shopping mall?

I know back in the '80s, it was kind of a big thing.

- I don't know.

We've never had one at Northwoods.

I don't know.

It wouldn't be a bad idea.

Yeah, if they wanna turn Sears into a movie theater, that'd be, I think it'd be nice, or a grocery store.

You know, just anything - That'd be nice.

- to fill it up.

- Yeah.

- Well, going back to Sears, it just kinda blows my mind that they're not doing anything with it.

Are there any other - I don't know what's going on.

- spots in the mall that are similar to that?

- JCPenney's is actually owned by Simon Property Group, so I don't have to worry about them, because Simon Property Groups, they're the largest retail developer, so if Penney's ever went out, they'd fill it up, but Penney's, there's no signs that they're gonna be leaving.

- Sure.

Do you ever, you know, get feedback from your folks at the mall, either businesses that are already in there, or customers, in terms of what kind of things they would like to see at the mall or?

But everybody wants Trader Joe's.

- True, sure, yeah.

- I don't know if that's ever gonna happen in Peoria.

- Oh, yeah, they all ask me to try to get some more nationals, but, you know, you can reach out to the nationals, but a lot of nationals don't wanna come to Peoria.

They don't realize that Peoria, there's a lot of money in Peoria.

- Yeah.

- If they came here, they would do well.

But now that the mall's full with my local stores, I think if they came to visit they would say, "Wow, our store might make it here if we brought our national store," 'cause the national stores don't wanna go to a mall that's empty, - Right.

- so, but all as they have to do is look at my traffic.

You know, you can go to a place, or AI, and track, you know, the traffic on every area of Peoria, or anywhere, if you want, so.

- Do you find a lot of folks are coming to, it's in a great location, again, you know, 74, and Sterling, and War Memorial.

- Yes.

- A lot of people using public transportation besides cars, to get there?

- They do, there's a lot of people that use public transportation.

The bus pulls up right out there on Sterling and they walk over.

- Yeah.

What are your normal non-holiday hours?

How late do you open at night usually?

- 7:00, yeah, - Okay.

- Yeah.

Yeah, I've kept it 10:00 AM to 7:00.

Of course, we open at 8:00 for the mall walkers, but the stores are 10:00 AM to 7:00 PM.

We might, you know, extend that, but it seems like, especially with local stores, you gotta be careful, because if it's a local store, there's only, you know, maybe mom and dad running the store and their kids are...

So it's hard to cover all those hours.

And even with the nationals, you know, finding, since Covid, they've had a hard time finding employees, so I always like opening earlier and closing at 7:00 so people can go home.

Like on Sunday, we close at 5:00, they can go home and have dinner with their family.

So I'm more apt to say let's open earlier and close at the same time.

But it's what everybody wants.

I usually send a memo out every year and say, "What do you guys suggest on the hours?"

'cause I want everybody's feedback.

- Sure.

Well, Julie, great news (Julie laughs) that Northwoods is doing well, and I hope people who haven't been there in a while take the opportunity to go check it out and support local.

You can support local businesses by going to the mall.

Who knew that would ever happen?

- Yeah, who would've known?

- All right, Julie Revallo, the general manager at Northwoods Mall in Peoria, enjoy the rest of your holiday season.

Thank you, thank you for inviting me on your show.

- All right, anytime.

And thank you for joining us.

You gotta see This is Next.

Check us out on Facebook and Instagram and at wtvp.org.

Have a good night.

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