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(upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Welcome to Business Forward.

I'm your host, Matt George tonight's topic is, it's gonna be all over because I've got a thousand questions for our guest, but one of them keeping morale high in the workplace.

We're looking at business moving forward in 2022, joining me tonight, Dean Heffta Business Consultant and Communications Trainer.

And his company is Clarus Results, welcome Dean.

- Good to be here, Matt.

- Well, I'm always thinking about different topics and a lot of these topics always come back to you.

I kind of consider you a guru in so many different things and all due respect to you.

I mean, it's just one of those things that I can't even come up with the title of the Show, because there's so many different avenues, but another year behind us and people like to always kick off the new year with new year's resolutions, right?

So I thought, well, what better way that we're not talking weight loss and we're not talking all these different things that people talk about, but what are some business resolutions that we can talk about?

- Well, that's a great question.

So 2022, there's a couple of times where people seem to really be focused on what's next and reenergizing themselves.

The beginning of the year is a great time obviously to do that.

The other is kind of the close out of the school year.

People are like, okay, now what's next?

I think when it comes to our business leadership, people went through this pause of 2020, the catch up of 2021.

And now in 2022, I think it's a focus on purpose and further out into the future.

And so I think for leaders, the resolution that I'm hearing from people is getting back to who are we, what are we here to do?

How do we serve at our highest and best level?

And what does that mean that we have to focus on to take care of our employees?

Because, we hear this term, the great resignation of 2021, there's been so much turnover and discontent and the hybrid workplace.

And so I think for a lot of leaders, 2022 is a focus on the employee and how do we get them engaged so that we can really lead into the future.

- It's interesting because after 2020, you sat there as a business leader and you said, oh, this next year's, we just need to put this year behind us.

Then 21 comes and there's still that black cloud that was over 21.

And now that I'm talking to CEOs all over right now, and every one of them are saying, this is about people.

This is about vision, strategy, all of these great things that you just alluded to.

That's what it's, what's great about it is it's not a negative tone, that negative thread, that was kind of thinking that some would say there's a positive vibe going on.

I like that.

- Yeah.

- So one of the things you talk a lot about as adaptive communication in the workplace too, and what exactly does that mean?

- So when we think about the best leaders and the best communicators in the workplace, or any organization that we're in, I think the foundation of that is the ability to meet people where they're at.

So you can create that connection and it can be easy for us to get caught up into our own style of communication, the vision that we have, and it can close out our ability to connect with others and what we see and what we all experience in great communication is that ability to connect, when you're interacting with somebody that keeps you as the focus and is able to meet you where you're at, and as leaders, that's an opportunity for us that regardless of the department that we're checking in on, or the people that we're interviewing the ability to be present and to adjust our communication style and recognize that there is the golden rule where we say, treat others the way you want to be treated.

- Right.

- But the best leaders elevate that to the platinum rule.

And they say, let's treat people how they want to be treated and have that adaptability to meet people where they're at so that I can have the greatest influence, leaders need influence.

And having that ability to connect is really one of the biggest influences that they can have.

- So really a good leader should be, should have been planning this going into 22 months and months in advance, because there's going to be a lot of change and change is hard.

And I have had that discussion many times, but at the same time, if your focus is people and the people that you work with that are on your team, those are all hard objectives initiatives.

If you think of, I wanna do this with pay, or I wanna do this with the employee experience, or if those aren't easy things to do.

So how do you as a leader either if you've already planted out, how do you execute it?

But I guess a better question would be, how do you sit here and roll it out over the next 12 to 18 months?

I mean, is that a plan?

- Yeah, so you touched on a couple of key things there.

Now it's how leaders are feeling, right?

And we can tell ourselves stories, like you just said that that change can be hard and change can be hard.

But I think the differentiator for change is a question of, am I having change done to me, or am I a part of authoring the change that I want and leaders have to be spending time in the future.

- I gotcha you.

- So leadership is about the future and bringing my team who's in the present into that future.

So if I'm in a big L position where I'm a formal leader, and I'm not able to spend time in the future, getting people to the future, then I'm probably not really leading, the small L leadership.

And you've got people on your teams that don't have a formal title, and they are looking for opportunities and they're acting on opportunities that open up the future and they are seen as leaders.

So we have to have a relationship.

That's one of the key connections that as leaders we have to have is a relationship with the future.

And when we're able to do that, we give people something to aim towards and suddenly the change that we might be experiencing or having to go through has context.

And it has meaning to it.

People get most frustrated, I believe when change is imposed upon them.

And they really don't have any idea why we're doing this, what's the purpose of this.

It seems like we're just going through it for the sake of change.

- Yeah, and then I guess if you take the mental health piece of a business and add that to it, you've the more concrete your plan is as a leader, it does give more comfort to your team at work, correct?

- Yeah, so I think there's a tipping point where we might end up creating as leaders plans that are so detailed and so concrete, they become fragile that as soon as some new piece of information comes, or we need to adjust, we're not able to do that.

And if it's too imposed upon the organization, then people that are responsible for the implementation, haven't had their say.

And so as we engage people in the plan development, they increase their commitment to it.

And that's what we really need for the change to happen is we need throughout the organization and engagement and a commitment to what is it that we're really trying to accomplish, it isn't about, we're gonna do these three things and everybody's gonna do it the same way.

It's making sure that we know what are we aiming towards?

- Right?

- What's our shared vision that we're working towards and then engaging people in that process.

So it's the clarity of the vision, but being able to be loose enough that we can engage and adapt as we go along.

Cause we're going to learn stuff every day.

- Well, I think that's, what's hard though, because as a leader in my agency, my organization, I've made mistake after mistake and I sit here and you go home at night and sometimes you don't sleep and you go, and I thought, I communicated that so well, and it's on a scale of one to 10.

It was actually awful.

It's too - Sure.

- And so when you have so many initiatives that are happening at the same time, I think for some leaders, it is very hard one sometimes to admit it but two, to actually kind of plan and put it in a timeline of this is so you don't make mistakes because we're talking, a lot of times we talk about the team or the employees, but leaders have bad days too.

- Of course leadership is one of the toughest, whether that's middle management or organizational leadership.

And I wanna highlight something you said that we're gonna make mistakes.

And so giving ourselves some grace and permission to make mistakes, it means that we're doing things and is our intent, right?

Is our direction, right?

Is our values, right?

And that has to be underlying that we're going to make mistakes.

The question is, what do we do with those mistakes?

Do we use that as learning opportunities for ourself in the organization?

Or do we keep getting better, then it's not a wasted mistake.

It is a part of how we learn every time we're doing something new, we're gonna make mistakes.

The other part of it is, making sure that when we're doing things, we're focused on what is it we're trying to accomplish because we can get wrapped up in the action or the activity and that communication, we can be so focused on it that we think, because I said something I communicated, but let's look at what communication is.

Communication is the exchange of understanding.

So I know what I said, but I don't know what you heard.

- Good point.

- So there has to be that give and take of ensuring the understanding to know that we've really had communication.

- Yeah, that's interesting.

And it's true.

And I think that's something that we all experienced, but right now in the past six months, I'm not afraid to admit it, there's been some bumps and there's been some things that I've personally recognized that I needed help on.

Or when I did make a mistake, how do you rectify that situation and be clear in your communications next time.

- Can I add something to that?

- Yeah.

- So I would also look at the responsibility that we have to engage people's responsibility to get understanding.

So as leaders, we can feel like the burden is on us to create everybody's understanding, but I would encourage leaders to say, I need a team that takes ownership in getting their understanding built, right?

I can only communicate what I can communicate.

I need people to say Dean, Matt.

I don't think that I quite understood what you're saying.

And so they're taking ownership for gathering that understanding, the leader it's not just on the communicator, the leaders shoulders, they're gonna do the best they can, but I want everybody in the company to take ownership of getting the understanding.

- Yeah, and that's easier said than that.

- sure.

- Right, so you speak on a lot of different topics, but one that I really wanted to touch on because I love dropping the drama, start your success.

What does that mean?

- Well, drama, so when I'm working with leadership groups with leadership teams and organizations often survey them, how much of your organization's time gets spent on dealing with drama?

- Putting out fires.

- Putting out fires, the backbiting the gossip, all of this stuff.

However, each person experiences drama.

It's real, it's gonna be a part of every organization.

And the feedback I get is anywhere from 20% of the time to 70% of time goes into dealing with drama in an organization.

And you think about that, the implication to the ability to deliver on our mission, the ability for us to use our funds wisely, that is a huge distraction.

So when we think about drama in the workplace, the leader has a huge influence on how do we create a space that reduces the amount of that.

And one of my favorite models is called the Drama Triangle.

And it was created by a guy Dr. Stephen Karpman.

And what he noticed is that when you have drama, which is this unproductive energy and communication in the group, there's really three different roles that are being filled.

- Okay.

- It's just like a Greek drama.

You've got a persecutor, somebody that's being perceived as doing the wrong thing.

You've got a victim of that persecutor, somebody that says I've been wronged, but just having a persecutor and a victim isn't enough, you need to have a rescuer.

And so that rescuer comes with good intent, with the desire to make things better.

But what ends up happening is that rescuer actually persists and spreads that energy in unhealthy ways through the organization.

So for me, it's elevating the ability of people in the team to resolve the issues that they have with others and speak clearly and candidly about what their needs are and their expectations and their frustrations.

- Yeah, the rescuer.

I like that because I feel like there's times I've been that rescuer and then you sit there and you go, I need to get out of the weeds.

I mean, that's a very common term, but you sit there and you think that you just said 70% up to 70%, that's mind blowing because if you have a strategic plan and you're trying to execute a strategic plan and you're wasting 70% of your time, how can you even work?

- Right.

- So how do you get somebody that if I'm managing somebody and they're constantly in the weeds and no matter how much direction, I feel like I'm giving them or trying to pull them out of the weeds, but they keep going back.

Well, how do you get them out of it?

- So when you talk about the weeds, there's a couple of ways we can look that sometimes we get drawn into the details, then we're missing out the big picture.

Other times when we talk about the weeds, it could be they're getting into that rescuer drama spot.

Which do you, - The rescue.

- The rescuer, yeah.

So the biggest thing is the mindset of do I believe people have the ability to solve their own problems.

And if I don't, I'm gonna operate from a standpoint of I'm gonna come in and give you advice, even though you're not asking for it, I'm gonna tell you how it should be done.

I'm gonna sweep in and take care of these problems.

So you don't have to.

- Yeah.

- And I feel good as the rescuer because I'm valuable now and you feel like, oh, good.

Now I don't have to take responsibility.

So the first spot for me is recognizing that people need to own the role that they've committed to deliver on.

And for us as individuals, to be able to speak that if I have an issue with somebody, I need to talk with that person.

And for me, the rule is if you have an issue, speak to that person, not about that person.

If we could implement that in our communication as individuals all of us.

- Yeah.

- The drama goes away because now we're able to discuss this and work through it as adults, rather than thinking, I need to go to Emily over here and talk to Emily about how annoyed I am with Matt.

- Yeah, so I picked a rescuer, I call it the fixer, but it's the same thing.

- Exactly.

- Just go in and think I've saved the day again.

- Yep, I get to be a superhero.

- I need to be every day.

- Every day.

- What are some, looking forward, what are some ways to get employees more engaged?

Because right now we've at every business.

I don't care whether you're in the restaurant sector, whatever it may be, getting employees is tough right now.

So how can you get them engaged?

Get them in hired, let's assume they're hired and then keep them engaged.

- So it's not uncommon for us to maybe minimize the role that middle managers have in an organization, but it's actually one of the most important roles in any organization.

Because you look at that.

They are the people that have the most contact with the people that are getting the work done.

And so, number one, I'd wannna make sure that, that my middle management team has a clear understanding of how important their role is in engaging with employees, especially new employees that are coming in, right?

So the important thing there, for a reason, they need to have a great relationship.

That's one of the number one predictors of the engagement and success of an employee is the relationship with their manager.

And so do I have the right people because that middle manager becomes really a choke point in the organization.

- Okay.

- If the leadership executive team is communicating through that middle management team, what's getting through to the people getting the work done, right?

So everything has to get translated and communicated, same thing as what's coming up to the executive team and to the board when it comes to opportunities and needs and requirements and how things are doing, how fast does that information go up?

So the middle management team is critical and them having an understanding of their role and the importance of it engaging the employee in, do they feel like they have a say in how they're doing the work?

Do they feel connected to the mission of the organization?

Like they're actually making a difference.

And if I don't have a connection to the vision and to making a difference, eventually the hard work that has to be done on a daily basis turns into a sense of drudgery.

- Grind.

- It's a grind, right?

So what's that feeling I get when I'm getting out of bed in the morning, am I excited to tackle this mission and feel like I have the ability to take action on it and do things and that I'm gonna be heard, even if I don't have my say implemented that people are looking for my input and that I'm valued as an individual.

That's why that middle manager has such an impact on them and on that engagement.

- Yeah, and that sometimes gets pinched so hard that you wonder, because you're sitting here thinking everything's okay, but you know that next layer underneath that management piece, you're not getting the production and you can't figure it out sometimes.

- And so the more that we as executive teams and managers and employees in an organization can eliminate assumptions and those blind spots, because when we make comments, when we make decisions that are informed by some sort of a belief or an assumption we have, and that's why getting close to the action, spending time with the employees, spending time with our customers, spending time where the action is happening, it gives us so much more information to be able to make sound decisions and understand how things are actually going.

That's the number one thing for leaders, is get to the action.

You don't seat in your office.

- Right, I mean, I probably say I'm on the move, 40% of my job, and I'm at this location or this location and people pop in and they sometimes wonder, they must wonder why I'm always coming by their office or they, you know, I'm just checking in.

I, I'm not judging or making sure they're doing their work.

I'm just making sure they're okay.

So I guess that goes to the relationship piece.

The more you know about your team, the easier it is to actually go in and talk to the team across the board and maybe even make change and pull in that engagement piece.

- And challenge people to a higher level of performance.

Sometimes we feel, we can feel even that engagement and happiness are synonyms, but they're really not.

So as a leader, I'm not in charge of my employees happiness, that's their own responsibility.

That doesn't mean that I'm callous or cold about it, but I can't make somebody happy, but I can treat them with respect.

I can value their input and their experience and engage them in that decision-making process to increase the odds that they feel that ownership, have that ownership feeling towards the problem we're trying to solve the people that we're trying to serve.

- Yeah, interesting little side note.

I recently spoke at Illinois State to a couple of back-to-back finance, senior classes there, and it was about non-profit work, but the questions at the end, all related to wanting to feel that company embraced them and that both classes.

And so it was interesting.

I was driving home that night and I was sitting there going, that is interesting because here you've got probably 35 seniors in each class and a lot of smart people in that room.

And I'm sitting there trying to also, as I'm speaking, sell, because we need people to stay here in this community.

But at the same time at that age, they're wanting and knowing what they are craving, I guess, so to speak.

Are you seeing that?

- Yeah, so there's a hunger for.

- Hunger, that's a good word.

- Maybe a hunger for responsibility, right?

Because we know that if we're gonna live a life of impact, that's coupled with our ability to take responsibility for things.

And we really, when you think about people in your life that have had a huge impact on you, whether it's previous managers or mentors or people in the community.

- Right.

- It's people that have challenged you to a higher level.

- Right?

- They said, you can do more, you can be more, you have it in you.

Those are the experiences we that stick with us.

That's what we want from our organization.

- Right.

- We don't want to just kind of go along and get by.

We wanna be fully engaged and fully present.

And so being able to ask people to bring more and contribute at a higher level, not necessarily more time, but more contribution of towards the mission, towards the impact, how can we get better?

- Right.

- And so leaders need to be able to ask better questions to engage that whole person.

- When I was thinking about doing this interview with you today, I was thinking, in my probably the previous 6, 7, 8 years of my career, I sat here and would think about, when I talked about the health of the business, I always talked about it from a financial standpoint.

And I don't know when it turned.

I think I've got it pinpointed, but it was probably about a year and a half ago when actually I threw that out the window, because I think that's a given in my job.

But at the same time, I started thinking about the mental health of our team.

And COVID changed it, but that piece is so important as what we're talking about.

If that engagement moving forward, I think it gets over looked sometimes.

- It really speaks to how do I view people, right?

So we've all worked with people that we get this sense, like, I don't think they trust me, to make the decision or to contribute to this conversation.

And it's amazing when we ask more of people, they deliver more and as leaders that's one of the things that we can do is call people to a higher level of contribution and to speak about COVID for just a moment, we we've heard for almost two years now, this concept of well, because of COVID, so kind of this excuse of, well, thanks to COVID, because of COVID as kind of an apology.

And my challenge to leaders is to say, let's shift that to thanks to COVID in a positive way.

- That's a good point.

- Like, so we're a higher tech organization.

We're a more engaged organization.

Thanks to COVID.

- That's cool.

- So looking at the challenges that we're presented with as a blessing that's made us.

- All right, I'm gonna put you on the spot before we end, Deans speed round.

Are you ready?

- Okay, bring it on.

- Best book on leadership.

- I love, "Turn the Ship Around!"

by David Marquet.

- Okay, best podcast besides your own.

- I enjoy Jordan Peterson.

- Jordan Peterson, leadership guru that you resonate with most.

- Jocko Willink.

- Nice, two liters that you love.

- Well, Matt George.

- I said this is a speed round, thank you Matt on that one.

Alright man, well, you are awesome.

You do so much for business.

I just love talking to you.

So thank you.

You're a mentor to me and thank you for coming on, Dean Heffta Clarus Results.

One of the good guys, we appreciate all that you do.

I'm Matt George.

And this is another episode of Business Forward.

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