- Will you consider this?

You may think you know a lot about golf.

I'm Christine Zak-Edmonds.

Coming up, my guests are going to take us way back.

(upbeat music) Well, back in the day when golfers took to the links, things were understandably very different.

Take the equipment for example, far from today's technology.

Joining me now, are Denny and Cathy Lane, members of the local Honorable Company of Hickory Golfers.

So.

those are real woods, made out of Hickory?

- Yep.

- All right, let's start with, what is this?

- Well, this is what they call a play club, 'cause that's the one you usually tee off with, and it's got the least amount of loft to try to get more distance out of it.

This would be a club that you hit from the fairway.

It's got a lot more loft and you can see the shape of it is, got kind of a concave face.

And this club here is an interesting one, 'cause they call it a rut iron, it's for hitting out of wagon ruts, because back in that day you never moved the ball anywhere.

And they used-- - It's heavy.

- Yeah, and it's usually got a real thick shaft on it, and it was extra long because if you was way down in a rut, and you're standing on the ground.

But then you notice too, they're smooth-faced.

They didn't have grooves back in that day.

And that's what you use to get out of your wagon rut.

- Well, how did you come to learn everything you know about Hickory golf and Hickory golf clubs, and the whole big deal?

- Well, I started off with getting a couple of clubs that I found at an antique mall, and started just playing with them a little bit with what they called a Cayman ball, because I wasn't sure if they'd break or something like that, 'cause I think that's the big fear a lot of people have is when they're gonna play a club like this that this club here is probably a little over a 100 years old.

But you really find out that they're still very strong and very good.

Every once in a while you'll run into one that's got some dry rot in it, or what they call little wormholes and stuff, and those won't be any good.

But if you break them and split them, you can still fix them.

- Tell me about the company, your Honorable Company of Hickory Golfers.

- Well we got that name from one of the very first golf clubs was the Honorable Company of Edinburgh Golfers.

And they're obviously in Edinburgh, Scotland.

And I thought that name sounded kind of fun, the Honorable Company.

And so we used that to go with our Hickory thing here.

- There's groups like this all over the world actually and they could be a local group, like a Eastern Seaboard type group, or Texas-based group, or it could be a country, but there's groups like this all over the world.

- Not in Illinois until we started this one.

- Well, that's fun, how many members do you have to date?

- Well, we consider anybody that comes and plays with us once and we hand out a gift to them that's got our logo on it.

And we probably have somewhere around 30 people, different people that's come and played with us at one time or another.

Sometimes, and there's so many golf outings going on anymore that sometimes we'll get 15, 18.

Sometimes we'll get eight, and just depending on people's schedule and stuff, but we all get together.

It's not too much really about the golf in which you score, because most of the time we don't even keep score.

- [Christine] (laughs) That would be good to me.

- Yeah, yeah, 'cause it's not about...

This game here isn't about score, it's about how you play it and it's about the fellowship.

And that's what we like, is you make a lot of new friends, people from all over, they come around.

We've had people as far away as Minnesota, we got a guy that comes down pretty regular from Green Bay, we've had Michigan people.

- And we correspond with people all over the world on this, on history, just general questions about clubs or balls and things like that, that we don't know.

We can reach out to other people.

- Right.

- Super generous.

- 'Cause you've been around, since officially the season started in 2014, after the Washington tornado.

- Right, yeah, that was our first outing was in 2014, and we had a pretty good little group at that time, but it was just something to kinda get together with people and that have love of the game like this.

And it's not for everybody because not everybody would appreciate this game in that if-- - And not hitting the ball very far, that's what you're saying.

- No, the balls we use in this game here, will fly 100, 110 yards maybe at the most, and you get some roll, obviously.

If you move up to the next era, which is the gutta-percha.

- Here, let's see these, so the very first one was-- - The very first one.

- The feathery they called it.

- The feathery.

Yeah, that's the ball that was played up until 1848.

We make these, if you can see, this is how they start out as three pieces of leather and then she sews it up and that's what we got there.

- [Christine] You stich by hand?

- Everything's cut and punched and drawn by hand.

- Yeah, and then you turned it inside-out through this hole, and that's what you get.

- [Cathy] And then he stuffs it with boiled feathers.

- With oiled feathers?

- Boiled.

- Boiled.

- Boiled feathers, okay, to make them wet and heavy.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- It's really hard.

But so, this is wet when you're stuffing them too, right?

- Right, yeah, we'll wet it back down and of course it grows to this, and then we've got a form that we put this in, and as we stuff, stuff, stuff, and you can't believe the amount of feathers that go in this.

You take a regular sandwich bag full of feathers that are wet and will go into this.

And, obviously you can, where's?

- It's just one of the stuffers.

- One of the things we use to stuff with.

Like that.

And we got several different tools that we use.

- The difficulty with this is that once the newer balls came into fashion, these were very, very expensive, more expensive than a club would be.

So, sometimes people would win a tournament and rather than take a cup or a belt or something else that would be of value or recognition, they would take their payment in balls because they were much more valuable.

And if you played around, the art balls-- - [Christine] And you'd hate to lose them.

- Or break them.

And they did break.

- And they do break, yeah.

- Yeah, so the ball, they would take maybe three, four or five with them.

So, it was really a game for wealthy people, not for... - [Christine] The common folk.

- Not for the common folk.

So, once these came in, those were like, "We're done with those."

- Once in 1848, when the guy discovered that he can make a golf ball out of gutta-percha, that's when the masses could come in, because these were very, very cheap compared to this ball, and they find it didn't really fly any farther.

And when they first made them they was smooth.

And so they had a very irregular flight, and then they found out that after you hit it, after maybe you played a round or two with it, it started getting nicks and cuts in it.

And they found wow, it flies better, because now it's got some aerodynamics to it.

And so then somebody came up with a ball mold and the line cut like that then.

And these will fly maybe a good day, 150, 160 yards.

- [Christine] Boy, really moving up in the world.

- Yeah, so it makes up a golf course like where we play like Hillcrest, it makes a golf course like that still relevant for today because the modern equipment hits it so much farther.

This still makes a course like that, a short course, a lot more fun.

And it's a different game because you won't fly this ball into a green and spin it and hold it.

It's a bounce in front, run it on.

You got to read the lay of the land and stuff like that to play this game.

- And you make sure that the fairways and the greens are kinda like they were back in the day?

- When we do the feather, I make greens like what it was.

So, you're putting on very long grass compared to a putting green nowadays.

And I guess for golfers that are listening to this, that know about stimpmeters, that's how they measure speed.

A stimpmeter reading on a feather green like that would be about a two or a three.

where nowadays, when you play the Masters, it's like 14.

And then like in this day, would have been probably a seven or eight or nine, maybe at the most in that.

So, it was a completely different game back then.

- Right, and Cathy, that's your specialty is to make those balls.

And so what happens when one explodes on you and you see it, or somebody else has used it?

- We do sell these balls now, but we didn't use to, we used to do it just for our own group, and we did it because they just weren't available any other way.

As far as we know, there's only one other group in the world that makes these.

Now, some people will take on the task as a personal challenge, but that's usually the last one they ever make, because it is a lot of work.

- And how long does it take to make just one?

- Well, you start with just the stamping, and each of these holes are punched by hand, then the stitching, then the turning, then the stuffing.

- [Christine] And you do it all by hand?

- Everything's by hand, so it's very, very, very slow, and they have to dry, and then be painted.

There's just many, many steps.

So, if you sat and just did it from beginning to end, and with not including the drying, it would probably be a good three, four, five hour process, depending on how different-- - [Christine] Per one?

- For one.

- Per ball, yeah.

And back in the day of when the feather ball was the only ball played, the ball makers and that then can make maybe three a day.

So, you had a shop where you might have maybe four or five guys making golf balls, and that was their livelihood.

- [Christine] Maybe come up with a dozen.

- Yeah, yeah.

- So, we've had many failures over the years, so we used to just play with them and we would all go out and everybody would just pick a ball that we made, and who knew.

- [Christine] Hope for the best.

- Hope for the best and some did explode.

Just literally hit, poof.

We didn't sell them and we were just doing it for fun and to experiment, to see how to make them better and better and better.

And then once we felt confident enough, that's when we started to sell them.

- It probably took us somewhere in the neighborhood of about three years of working on different things to find one that actually holds together when we play now, yeah.

- Did you think he was out of his mind when he started all this or you were right there with him?

- Well, the ugly truth is I don't golf, so...

But I do like to do things like this.

I mean, this is kind of up my alley, is kind of crafting but this kind of history, and starting to understand, I really love the history of golf and everything that goes into what these guys do because as you can see, they dress.

- [Christine] Yes, so tell me about the dress.

Now, you don't wear a kilt?

- No, although we do have a couple guys that have played with us that wear kilts.

Basically the outfit of the day, back in that day.

- For the feather era.

- This is the feather, no, this one's the feathery.

- Both of these would be, and this too obviously, for the wagon ruts.

The people that played golf and that was the so-called professionals, were actually caddies, and ball makers, and club makers.

So, the dress that they had was basically their work clothes.

That's what they just kind of work in, or when they went out to play golf, this is what they wore.

And it's basically a jacket, with a waistcoat, and usually a shirt with a tie, and long pants.

Knickers and that didn't come into play until around the turn of the century.

And they called them plus fours and that because-- - Or plus eights or plus twos, there's a whole bunch of them.

- And they kind of figured that on what they measure, coming down below the knee and that.

But like I said, that was more or less around the turn of the century, the feather era golf was like what I'm wearing now.

- You had to research that too?

- Oh yeah.

You get in there.

There's a couple really good...

There's the Golf Historical Society that's got a lot of good stuff, and then there's the Society of Hickory Golfers.

You can get online and I belong to that, and there's a wealth of information on there.

- They're golfers but they're mostly history buffs.

You find most of them-- - [Christine] So, they combined two loves?

- Yes.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, that's what makes it kind of fun is to chase down...

When we started making things, of course we have to boil the feathers to do this.

And one of our thoughts was, would they use their drinking water, or their cooking water to do this?

Probably not, and they're in Scotland, so how much freshwater do they have?

There're near the sea, would it be Bracken water?

Would be sea water?

We don't know.

So, we go down rabbit holes like, what is water?

What are feathers?

What is leather?

And that's what's fascinating.

- [Christine] And what did you find out then?

- Well, what's left behind is not a lot.

We know it's bull's hide soaked in allen.

Now, we buy this from a modern supplier 'cause that's dangerous.

All the chemicals and things involved are quite dangerous, but we try to stay as true to the procedure as we know it, as we can imagine.

People might say, "Why don't you get a vegetable dehydrator, they'll dry faster."

It's like, "They didn't have vegetable dehydrators."

We have to do it the right way, the real way.

There's shortcuts.

- And that's the fun about it.

Is trying to figure out what they did, how they did it, and then trying to do it.

- Right.

- Yeah.

- Another challenge.

- Another challenge.

- Well now, there could be an Etsy group.

Where would one find some Hickory golf clubs?

Do you have to just scour the internet?

Are people making them now?

- There's two manufacturers that actually manufacture Hickory clubs right now.

One is Tad Moore, I don't know where his shop is, but he's online.

Louisville Golf makes wood shafted clubs, but to find most of the clubs I've got, were founded an antique malls, I got leery about buying it off the internet because it looked good in a picture, you never know what it was like when you get it, and then you get a couple surprises where you get there and the shaft has been, where they might have put the whipping on like that, there's a big crack in it or something like that.

- Another thing you need to look out for is during the transition to metal clubs, they would disguise the shafts with veneer I guess you'd call it.

- Well, it was a pirate tone.

- To make it look like wood.

So, we've had people approach us, like, "Look at my Hickory clubs" and they're actually metal.

- And they're steel shafts, yeah.

- So, you got to watch.

- Right, well, and then do they warp?

Would they warp?

- They can, it depends on if they were stored in your barn, or stored in your wet basement or something, but they can be straightened.

I made a jig to straighten them and stuff like that.

- [Cathy] He takes it all apart.

- Yeah, when I get a club, you find the pin, you knock the head off and we reglue it.

That way you can see if the cone part is rotten or something like that if that's in good shape 'cause I've had a couple of them where you get it all fixed up, and you got in play and hit it four or five times, and it'll snap off right here, so.

- [Christine] Because it's rotted underneath.

- 'Cause it rotted out under there.

So, I say, as far as breakage, and you're swinging different with these.

A modern club, you're swinging with all your might and going as hard as you can.

These, you get better distance and better control with a nice smooth slow swing, and you don't force the swing.

- [Christine] You don't want to kill it.

- No, no 'cause the ball will actually go better with just a nice smooth swing.

And so, but they lasted.

Surprising I've got a couple of clubs at home, that were made before 1900, that I play with, that are still going strong.

And just, every year I take some steel wool, steel wool it down and put another finish on it.

A slack, put a slack on it to keep, 'cause moisture is the thing that kills these things.

- How many clubs do you play with?

And they don't have numbers on them, so... - Now, you just got to kind of look at the loft and kind of get a feel for how far you're gonna hit it.

There's no rangefinders and stuff like this.

You just look from here to there and think, "Okay".

'Cause you're not always hitting the same kind of shot.

You might, depending on the wind, and depending on the day, one day you might hit a lower shot into it or a little higher shot.

It depends on how the course is playing.

But there's just so many variables.

In my set, I usually got about six clubs, which is plenty.

- And you carry them?

- Yeah.

- Or do you have a caddy?

- No, I carry.

- Cathy you can caddy for him.

Well, now tell me about what that bag is right there.

You have a leather bag and that was for?

- This is for sand.

You get some wet sand, and it's got a lining in it.

It's got a lining in it to keep-- - [Christine] Waterproof.

- Waterproof, yeah.

And this come from a little company in Louisville that is called Stuart Jacoby.

And he makes all these leather products and stuff by hand, and he makes golf bags and all this stuff.

Anyway, that's where this is.

Sand, you put wet sand in that and that's what you use for your tee.

You reach in there and grab a little bit, form a little bit and you set your ball on top of it.

Or you can use this, you can fill that up with sand.

- [Christine] But they didn't use to have those obviously.

- No, this was-- - There was some during the time, usually metal, someone's made this.

- Yeah, it's just kind of a replica of what one was, but some genius with-- - And mostly they use their hands, just like that.

- Well, wet sand, it's like building a sand castle.

- It is, yeah, and there's so many different ways to make a sand tee, and you want to make sure that you kind of make it correctly, so you're not basically hitting out of a sand trap.

- But you're allowed to hit it 'cause in a sand trap you're not supposed to hit any of the sand, right?

- Yeah, a lot of that depends on the shot too, how big the lip is, and how deep the bunker is, 'cause back in the day, the bunkers were fairly deep, and getting in one was a real hazard.

A lot of today's bunkers are, the sand is-- - So, that's when you would use the wagon rut thing.

- You could use that.

Yeah, that's a good one, because it had a little bit of a rounded sole on it, and you could get out of the bunker fairly easy with that club.

- Now what about this club?

It has some, they're not grooves, but they're little-- - They're punch dots.

- Punch dots.

- And that club is of an era, that's more like in the 1920 era, when the more modern so-called modern ball come out, that actually they were a wound ball within a cover.

And they started doing grooves and punch dots, and they had all kinds of different patterns.

You get some that look like fish scales and things like that, and they just tried everything.

But that's more of the modern club.

- [Christine] And those would be forged?

- These are all hand-forged, yeah.

And way back then they was forged over an anvil.

The guy had a flat piece of steel and had to make the hozzle and then flattened it out, and that's why there was no, what they call match sets.

There was individual clubs.

They were, they were one of... And that's the interesting thing about going back into this part of the hobby, is researching the names on the clubs because you look in the back of the club, and they have the maker, and usually the place that was forged, and you get some very interesting names on them sometimes.

And we've actually researched a couple that we've gone all the way to a guy that we know in England that knew this company and knew the history of the club, and part of the... Yeah, like I say, it's just the history of the clubs and that, because you never know who played with those clubs.

- [Christine] Exactly.

That'd be fun.

- It just where'd it come from, originally who played with it?

How did it get here?

Because they were made in Scotland.

- Well, here's a question, we have maybe four minutes left, but you have a tournament, you have two tournaments a year, one is this April, and then the next one is in the fall, so quickly tell me about those.

- Well, we get together and in the spring and we play two days.

Friday, we usually play at Hillcrest because we play the feather, we play a 12-hole feather event, and then we play nine holes with the Gutty, there we go.

We play nine holes with the Gutty ball then.

And then on Saturday, we'll find another golf course usually to go to, sometimes we go to Metamora, and play there 'cause that course was laid out-- - [Christine] Generally links.

- Kind of like a link style course, yeah.

And then we usually put a Gutty ball there on that.

- So, that's April 15?

- [Denny] 15th and 16th this year.

- And all comers are welcome.

You don't need any experience, we have loaner clubs.

If you just want to come watch and kind of observe, you don't have to dress, a lot of people do, but you don't have to at all.

That's not important.

- No, and just to get started in this hobby, it's just you can come like you say.

We have clubs, we have balls to-- - But leave your ego at the door.

If you're used to hitting a 300-yard drive, that's not going to happen.

- But everyone you're playing with is neither.

- Okay, that's good.

- You're in good company.

- And then you have another tournament in the fall that you host.

- Yeah, and it's usually in October towards the end of the season.

And we do the same thing, on the Friday is we play, it's basically the same format.

- And we have a Facebook group, so if anybody's interested they can check us out there and we usually have our calendar and events up to date.

- [Christine] And that's your job?

- Pretty much.

- Since you don't play.

And he's busy doing all these other things.

So, that'll be when in October?

- We don't have the date yet.

It's usually around the first weekend in October.

- We're gonna be in Scotland this year, so we may not be there but others will be, so hope.

- You'll be at St. Andrew's or?

- Well, we're actually, we will be there for a little while, we're gonna be there supposedly three weeks, is what our plan is, and we've kinda got the whole of Scotland kind of mapped out for us and got different courses to play.

- Historic courses.

- Yeah, so.

- Well, what's the most interesting thing that you have figured out about this whole thing and people's interest in it?

Are they amazed?

Are they in awe?

- It's funny because I've got two friends.

One was Jeff and the other one was Tom that played the first time and it was like, that's it.

They don't play modern golf anymore.

I haven't played modern golf since I started this.

- [Cathy] It's very common.

- Yeah, yeah.

- [Christine] 'Cause it's more of a challenge or just?

- Yeah, it kind of brings back to the roots of the game.

'Cause there's no technology here.

This is you against the golf course and with your skill.

And you find out you don't have a lot of skill sometimes, but it's more satisfying really, to play this.

- Just make contact with the ball.

- Yeah, try to get it airborne, and sometimes you're not really trying to get it airborne, like I say, you play along the ground.

I've had holes where I've played a putter from 100 yards out.

and you just give it a good smack with that and it gets airborne a little bit.

- So, there is actually a Hickory Putter too?

- Oh yeah, yeah.

- Kind of like today's putters?

- No, no, no.

- No.

- They look like real putters.

Some of the modern stuff kind of look like spaceships.

- [Christine] Well they do, yeah.

- I'm not knocking that game, 'cause this game isn't for everybody, but this is just what we like.

- Well, I am so thankful that you came and shared the story, you shared your talents with all of these hand-stitch.

I mean this, it's really actually pretty heavy, it looks like a little baseball.

And it's just been fascinating.

So, thank you very much for sharing your love of this, your discovery, your 21st century discovery.

- Well, thanks for having us on.

- Thank you so much.

- And we look forward to hearing more about it.

I think I might have to come and take a look.

Maybe I'll feel good about myself by swinging the golf club.

- We have clubs.

- Thanks so much.

All right, I hope that you learned a lot, and I hope you enjoyed it.

All you golfers out there, good luck, and stay safe and healthy.

(upbeat music)