- PNC is proud to support Business Forward, where community leaders discuss the issues confronting business in Central Illinois.

(upbeat music) - Welcome to Business Forward.

I'm your host, Matt George.

Joining me tonight, Diana Doukas, U.S. Policy Programs Manager, Economic Impact for Meta.

Thank you for joining us, Diana.

- Thanks for having me.

- Well, today's topic is one I'm interested in but one I do not quite understand fully.

But I'm guessing I will in the next 30 minutes.

As a matter of fact, I have a feeling I'm gonna get schooled in it.

It's the metaverse.

What does that mean?

- Sure, so I'm glad you're asking, 'cause a lot of people are hearing the term metaverse be thrown around.

So including our name changing from Facebook to Meta.

And so a lot of companies are talking about building the metaverse, and first I wanna say that it's going to be a collective effort.

But really, what the metaverse is going to be is that it is going to be a 3D experience connecting you to your communities, to neighbors, to events, to shopping and more.

It's a 3D interactive experience all interconnected with different surfaces and platforms.

So instead of us having this conversation on via screen, this 2D experience, we would actually be able to even have our avatars immersed in your studio and having this conversation.

- So I could go do something else and have my avatar do the interview?

- I think you'd have to be a little bit more present, but yes.

- So Morgan Stanley says the metaverse will become the next generation platform to replace the mobile internet.

That's strong.

- It's a strong statement, but we do think that that's the progression.

You think about the first iteration of the internet where you're thinking about dial up.

You're thinking about the second iteration of the internet, which is really what we're experiencing now, this interactive experience.

And then the next phase is this 3D immersive experience where you're really going to be able to bring together those experiences and those technologies to have this immersive, all-encompassing and really exciting experience.

- Before the show, I was talking to you off air and talking about, you know, I was trying to explain something to my dad.

And this is another topic that if I tried to explain, it's a hard thing to explain.

Is this a generational thing?

Is this just for younger people or is this for everybody?

- This is gonna be everyone.

And I think to your point, kind of thinking about what your dad has experienced over the last 50 years, right?

All the technological changes.

So he certainly remembers the first internet and being able to, maybe you all were fighting over who got to be on AOL or whatever other platform you were using.

You're like, no, it's my turn.

Maybe someone else couldn't get through to you because you're using the same landline.

So everyone remembers that experience.

And then we're all in this interconnected space now, in this 2.0, and it has certainly evolved since that beginning.

And we really think that this new experience is really gonna be accessible to all and may even be a comforting experience to be able to access and feel like you're with your dad currently in a space.

Or if you know that your friends are across the country and you wanted to meet their new baby or have a dinner party, you can be able to do that.

- Yeah, so I like the word comfortable there because I think that's a key word when you're introducing something so, I don't wanna say radical, that's not the right word, but so different that there is gonna be a comfort level thing happening right here with a lot of people, right?

- I think so.

I mean, and it is a new concept.

Although the idea of this immersive experience has certainly been depicted in movies and other mediums, but we're really excited about bringing this to, helping to build for this in the fullest capacity.

So thinking about how a student could potentially go to graduate school and learn some technical training via, right from where they're located via the metaverse.

We're thinking about how to even expand upon what a lot of businesses and people experience during the pandemic.

So if you think about the way that people, consumers, and businesses gravitated online during the pandemic as a sense of keeping their business alive and connecting with their communities, this is kind of the next step to being able to do that.

- So Caterpillar is big here in Middle Illinois, in our region.

And there's a company here in town called CSE Software, and we had the CEO on and she was talking about, they invented the CAT simulators, the software for the CAT simulators.

And now they're doing things that are in hospitals at OSF here, in the Jump Learning Center to where they're doing things simulating surgeries and things like that.

I mean, is that something that, is that what you're talking about?

Something very similar?

- Absolutely.

I mean, if you're thinking about the educational opportunities and being able to almost democratize those experiences and those trainings, it's a really, one, an amazing concept, and then two, being able to really implement that.

So if you're thinking about, let's say, I'm in currently in Washington DC, and I know that I need to better my skills at a certain trade, but the best school and opportunity for me to do that is in Washington State.

But let's say I don't have the means.

I don't have the availability or the time to travel to Washington State to be able to go do that.

But if I have the metaverse and I'm able to work with this technical school to really upskill my training and my abilities, I'm gonna be able to do that from my home and become, hopefully become best in class.

- [Matt] Wow.

- And be able to localize that economic impact, thinking about what I could do with this really best in class training, but keep it local because I don't wanna leave Washington DC to go do that.

So I can bring those skills here.

- And if you think about what you're saying is somebody like me that likes to read constantly and constantly learn, I really could do that.

As part of the metaverse, I could kind of jump in and just start learning different tools or trades or whatever it may be and start a new business or whatever, right.\?

Because you... Let's talk about business for a second.

So how do businesses prepare for their customers shopping and buying in a 3D world compared to 2D?

- Sure, so the first thing I do wanna say to businesses who are thinking about this and learning about this right now, do not stop doing what you're doing.

Right now, you are invested in your communities, in your networking, in building your marketing and your business plans.

Continue doing that.

I will say, do start paying attention to the different ways that you can start bringing in some of today's technology that will bring you to the metaverse, that will bring you along to the metaverse.

E-commerce is a big bridge in that model.

So one of the products that Facebook created during the pandemic is something called Facebook and Instagram shops, which was really an e-commerce experience where the business could set up really their own virtual storefront.

You could fully customize it, you could personalize it.

You could ensure that up to 30 products were specific to your intended customer.

And then the customer would be able to have this experience like shopping in a one-stop-shop experience.

So almost as if you were in a brick-and-mortar experience.

And what I mean by that is that things are customized.

Products are customized to you.

You're able to communicate with the owners, but then also you're able to complete your transaction all in one place.

So if you're thinking about anytime, sometimes you're buying something online, you go from this platform to that platform to that platform just to finish the transaction.

And in this experience, you don't have to do that.

So it makes it a lot more seamless as if you're shopping in person.

So I say that as an opportunity to start thinking about how you're using technology and really to start moving towards that, in that direction.

I would also say that there is a technology called Spark AR, AR being for augmented reality, which is a tool and a filter that you're able to use as a small business owner and be able to use with your product so that a customer could envision themselves either wearing a dress or makeup or wanting to see where that couch would look best in that room.

So really being able to use that type of technology to bring your products to the customer without them leaving their homes.

- That's crazy.

So if I wanted to, as an example, there's not a Nike town here in Middle Illinois.

So if I wanted to try on all of the different Nike outfits, I can have me and then put those on me and be able to see that.

- Yes.

- Oh, wow.

- In Nike's metaverse, the products that they will be building for the metaverse, that is exactly what could happen.

- Wow.

So now I'm starting to understand what you're talking about, and as you were talking, this isn't one of my original questions, but I was just thinking about the gaming world in regards to gambling.

And we don't really talk about gambling on this show, but online gambling has become so big.

That could be part of this too, couldn't it?

- I think you're looking at a lot of different ways for people to experience the metaverse.

And so you're talking about gaming and what is that immersive experience like?

You're also thinking about opportunities like going to concerts and shared social experiences.

And so there are many, many different ways that someone can use the technology and the immersive experience to continue engaging in the same types of legal and safe of course experiences that they are doing in real life.

- Wow.

How do you use the learnings from our pandemic experiences to connect with current and, not only just current customers, but also cultivating new customers?

- Well, if you're thinking about how businesses in general have used the internet to continue to grow, hopefully, or at least survive the pandemic, what you've been able to see is that so many, from the get go of the pandemic, unfortunately, so many businesses had to transition online.

But then what you saw was an opportunity and ability for a business to not only sell to those who are able to walk into their store, but all of a sudden, you're able to market to and sell to people across your city, across your state, across the country, across the globe.

And so there really are just a many, many opportunities to bring this connective tissue that we're helping to build.

And what we, you know, as Meta has always been core to our mission, which is truly, we are a connecting platform.

The metaverse is going to do the exact same thing.

It's going to connect people to people, people to communities, people to businesses.

And if you think about it, you're talking about diving into reading and being able to learn all that you can learn.

Well, imagine being able to do that in the setting of under the Eiffel Tower or along the Nile or somewhere that you've always wanted to be that you find particularly soothing and stimulating.

You could be doing all of those things from your home.

- Isn't that crazy?

And the other thing I was, I've got all kinds of things popping in my head, but if you'd never been to a certain country and you wanted to go there, you could explore that to see if that's even an option before you even wanted to spend your money to go.

- Sure, absolutely.

- Wow.

- And we wanna make sure that we're bringing all of the educational opportunities too.

So if there's a particular moment in history that you wanted to experience and participate in in its own way, or at least observe as closely as possible, you could do that.

- That is really some neat stuff.

So if I wanted to invest into this space, how do you go about that?

I'm guessing there's people that are investing into this business or this methodology maybe.

- Well, there are lots of different ways.

One, I should again mention that the metaverse isn't something that we own.

It is going to be many, many different companies building towards the metaverse together.

So you talked about Nike earlier.

I read a couple of months ago, yeah, a couple of months ago at this point that Nike was building their own shoes for your avatar in the metaverse.

And so there are lots of different ways that different companies are going to enter into this new market.

So whether it's real estate, whether it's gaming, whether it's educational opportunities or footwear, there are lots of different ways.

But what I really suggest for people in general is to really just start learning about the metaverse as much as possible.

And especially if you're a business, you can go to meta.com/business, and it's going to start giving you some tips and tools to start thinking about as we all move towards this together.

- And I think if you don't start looking at it and don't start educating yourself, you could be left behind, in a sense.

- Well, I'm glad that you mentioned that because that is something that we're really cognizant to not do.

And I think that that's why, well, I think that's one of the reasons that we wanna be out there talking about these opportunities now, because if you're thinking about it, or we're thinking about it, the metaverse could be three years away, but it could be 5-10.

But what we don't want is for people all of a sudden 3-10 years from now to wake up and say, oh my goodness, what have I missed?

All of my customers are online.

I have to go find them.

We wanna make sure that we are doing the best that we can to bring this to people's attention, to excite people, because we are excited about it and all the opportunities it could bring and make sure that people start to understand how they can slowly integrate some of these more technology changes and adaptations, or even just thinking as we all move forward, move this forward together, because we really don't want anybody left behind.

The promise of the metaverse is that it's going to be this opportunity for everyone to kind of jump in.

And that's what we wanna make sure people can do.

- Yeah, jump in at your own pace too.

I mean, that's what you're saying.

And it actually, from your comments there, it actually gives an opportunity for more business.

- I think so.

And that's what we're hoping.

That's what we're really hoping for again, 'cause if we're looking at the model from the pandemic alone or just using social media in general to market your business, looking at that evolution from that start to then to what the great transition onto the internet in general and now where it could be, it really just allows for you to have access and you as a business to have access to many different potential customers.

And what's great about for the customers is that they have access to many different businesses.

So if you're looking for that really specialized, embroidered napkin, or if you're looking for something that is just so personal and tailored to you, I guarantee you someone across this globe is going to have that for you.

And now it's gonna be easier for you to find.

- Yeah, and so in a sense, it's a global partnership.

You talked about a collaborative effort.

So that global partnership, whether it's with businesses or creators or policy makers, whatever they may be, it is a collaborative effort.

- It is a collaborative effort.

And that's also why we're having this conversation now, because we want to make sure that everyone is not just bought in, but everyone is working towards this same system.

And we wanna make sure that we're educating policy makers and governments and our partners on what it is that we are hoping to accomplish so that we can all have the best in mind as we all move forward to really building this.

- So what industry or industries are best positioned to kind of be those early adopters of the metaverse?

- Sure, so one I mentioned earlier, but is just e-commerce.

You're already experiencing some of that one-stop-shop efforts.

If you're already dabbling or well-versed in Spark AR and you're already making sure that you're, you know, you can help curate someone's dining room table well, you're in that space.

And so that you're going to have, you have a baseline to start moving.

The other one to think about is online events, because something that's really exciting is that I could go to a concert in London or in New York or in Brooklyn where I am nowhere near currently.

But if there's an artist that I'm, you know, I haven't seen Billy Joel at the garden during his stint or his residency.

But if I could have, I would have.

If I could do it in the metaverse, I will.

I'm showing my Long Island roots there a little bit, but online events is certainly something.

And that is something that we saw really come out of the pandemic, because as you're thinking about it, these artists, these musicians really all of a sudden, folks who are coming to their galleries or to their concerts couldn't have their audiences.

So the people started moving their dance parties and their concerts online, and that we were able to help these hosts by creating something called paid online events.

- [Matt] Yes.

- Way we're doing that, we're just bringing it more, we're fully bringing it to this experience.

- Kind of that experience that's going all over the United States right now is that Van Gogh experience.

- [Diana] Yes!

- Yeah, so you could do this from the luxury of your own couch, so to speak.

And when you're talking about events, I get the concerts and stuff.

That would be pretty cool, but I was also, I'm a fundraiser in my end, so running nonprofits, you could do a lot of fundraising events, I guess it's just endless.

I guess your mind just starts spinning once you start understanding this, but there's just a lot of potential fun out there.

- Yes, that is definitely true.

- How will the metaverse, I think you might have just answered it, but how will this bring people together and build better connections?

Because I think it's so important right now in this world that we need to start bonding more and loving more and being one.

And so how will this help?

- So I think it's a way to, this is going to maybe sound a little contradictory, but I feel like it's going to humanize, it has the opportunity to humanize again.

And the reason I say that is because you may not be just having, let's say you're having a meeting and you're all over the country and you're doing it via VC or you know that you're trying to work something out via email.

Sometimes I can feel a little bit impersonal because you're not having the water cooler conversations or you're not, you don't know what the tone in the meeting is.

And so can you joke, can you not joke?

But if you are bringing your avatar or even yourself into this augmented reality space, I think you're gonna be able to bring your personality a little bit more clearly into these experience and really hopefully get to know people a little bit more than words on a screen.

- I love it.

I love that.

So are there products right now that you can go into the metaverse and purchase?

Is that the right type of question?

- Yeah.

- Okay.

I think I'm tracking with this whole metaverse, so it started to feel good.

- I think you're doing great.

So again, I do wanna say the Spark AR that again, that augmented reality platform that can be used for brand, by companies and brands for marketing tools.

And again, bringing those effects to your consumers is a really positive way of doing that.

And you can always put them on Instagram, Facebook, or Messenger.

And you can also experience the metaverse a little bit by Quest 2, which is a headset and also Ray Ban's Stories glasses, which is an augmented reality experience.

That was a partnership with Ray Bans that allows you to take photos, to take videos, to take a phone call or listen to music all with wearing Ray Bans.

- Very cool.

So just, you know, my daughter should be the one interviewing you because they are the ones who know what Facebook shop and Instagram shop is.

Can you just explain briefly exactly what that is?

Is it considered what e-commerce store is that?

- Yep.

- So if I wanted to sell sporting equipment or whatever, it may be on Instagram or Facebook shop, I can just post the pictures like I would on any type of platform?

- Facebook and Instagram shops is more immersive and kind of more relationship-oriented, or it's more interactive, I should say.

And so you as a small business owner could curate up to 30 products for your customers to come in, view what you have around and that what you have in your store, and then be able to check out all in one place.

So it's really, it is an e-commerce experience, as opposed to simply advertising that you have a product to sell, if that makes sense.

- Well, I have an 11-year-old daughter who is an entrepreneur at heart, and she is building a jewelry business, and she wants to, you know, dad, how do I do this and that?

And I'm now going to look at Facebook shop and see if I can help her that way.

You gave me some good ideas for daughter's personal gain, I guess.

- Absolutely.

- This is a very interesting topic.

Basically what you're saying, I wanna kinda just wrap this up to a couple talking points.

The future, whether it is three years, five years, 10 years, whatever it may be, you're just asking people, just learn, learn what the metaverse is.

Just understand it.

And I think that is a very important piece here, because even after today, I'm gonna jump right off of here and go read more because I think this conversation really sparks some things in my mind to look at some of the business that I'm doing, including the nonprofit piece that I'm in.

So am I on target with that one?

- I think absolutely.

I think that there are, again, while it's a couple of years away, one, we know time moves pretty quickly, and two, we wanna make sure that you're going to be able to maximize that opportunity when you can.

And when your daughter is old enough to be able to use the products and our platforms the way that you intend, encouraging that entrepreneurial spirit, I think that's really exciting.

- And just to clear this up too, cause I've been wondering, and I know the name Facebook to Meta, but is that everything?

'Cause now, I mean, you're still calling it Facebook shop.

So is this kind of a transition or what's the play there?

- Well, the idea behind changing the name from Facebook to Meta was, one, to signify our looking to the future.

And so Meta in Greek means beyond, and I should know this because I am Greek.

My parents said it much.

My parents pronounce it much better than I do.

It was one signifying factor to that.

But then also, because we have so many other products to offer, Instagram, Oculus, WhatsApp, we really wanted to separate the connotation of the company at large to just one product, because of course, Facebook to Facebook really just connotes that one product where we have become a lot more.

- Well, very interesting topic.

And I appreciate you coming on.

I wanna thank Diana Doukas, U.S. Policy Programs Manager, Economic Impact for Meta.

That was an awesome show.

Thanks a lot, and let's talk again.

- Thank you so much for having me.

We'd love to come back.

- Sounds good.

I'm Matt George, and this is another episode of Business Forward.

(upbeat music) - Thank you for tuning in to Business Forward, brought to you by PNC.

- Hey, Diana, are you still there?