(upbeat music) - PNC is proud to support Business Forward, where community leaders discuss the issues confronting business in Central Illinois.

(upbeat music) - Welcome to Business Forward.

I'm your host, Matt George.

Joining me tonight, Michelle Sullivan.

Michelle's a speaker, author and social impact advisor and also a good friend, welcome Michelle.

- Thank you, nice to be here.

- Well, I like always starting the show talking about Central Illinois.

And so you're from here, right?

- Right.

- So where did you grow up.

- In East Peoria.

- Okay, and when you had a great career, we're gonna go into that in a second, but one of the things that has happened in the last couple years is you've written a book.

You've written a book called, "Looking Up," and it's a great read.

I actually read it when it came out, and then I read it again this past week, and it's a good read.

Why don't you explain over your whole career, what made you write a book?

- You know, it's interesting it wasn't so much my career that gave me the idea to write it, it was other people telling me throughout my life that, I should write a book with my experiences and so forth and, you know, I never thought that much about it because I believe we all have a story to tell, we all have taken our own journey in life.

And as we know, life is ups and downs and twists and turns, and everyone is unique.

And, as I was narrowing in on my 30 years at Caterpillar, in the last seven years of my career, I was the president of the Caterpillar Foundation and really got to see around the world, the people who are living in extreme poverty and also environmental projects, et cetera.

And, the people that I met in some of the, you know, deepest parts of the world and really into the area that I live in, you know, Central Illinois, in areas that I normally would not have gotten to work with.

It really got me thinking that, you know, I really look up to all these folks who if you look at them, you know, if they live in poverty, you know, you think, you know, they don't have very much, but in reality it was really interesting to see that, they really have the same aspirations as we all do.

You know, they wanna have a healthy family, and be able to support them, and be happy, and be you know, an impact on their community as well.

And so it did start to enter my mind the last couple years of my tenure at Caterpillar that maybe I could write a book about these folks and their impact on me, and it's not what you see, but you really have to get to know people to see how great they are and what an inspiration they are.

And so, even though the book is titled, "Looking Up," which, you know, being four feet tall, I look up to pretty much everyone, but it's more about the value that we see in others and the respect that we have for others.

And so the book is not all about me, and a lot of people think that when they pick it up, it's really about other people who have looked up to me and also helped me along the way, and that I look up to them and I tell stories about Susie et cetera, and the folks here in Central Illinois as what well, and so that's really how it started.

So with the couple years left, before I was gonna retire, I really got serious about it.

'Cause you know, writing a book and publishing it is a couple year project.

And then it happened, you know, in February just as the pandemic hit and everything shut down.

(laughing) And you know, it's also about perspective because when you think about the timing of the book, you know, when you first think about literally, I got home from LA, New York and Denver that weekend of February of 2020, and then that Monday in Illinois, everything shut down.

- Yeah.

- You think about that timing, but once we got through the next couple months of, you know, the real impact of the pandemic, the book really is about that, it's about perspective.

Do you see a problem or do you see an opportunity?

And so for me, the looking up was, we have to find some good out of this pandemic.

You know, we really looked in on our neighbors, you know, a lot of children were at college and they moved home, you would've never have gotten that time with the children.

And so a lot of families came together, innovation leapfrogged about a decade during this time.

And so the book's also bought perspective, and even though the timing may not on the surface look like it was ideal, it actually was.

- It interesting because if you look at, you were at CAT for 30 plus years, and in your last seven-eight years, was that the time, and maybe it's, it was the time of your career, it was towards the end of your career at Caterpillar, but what was it like just to know that you had the impact that you could have and your team could have, and the CAT Foundation could have to all of these communities across, not just Central Illinois, not just Peoria, but to everywhere in the world, didn't that just feel good?

- You know, it absolutely does.

You know, I've always loved social impact work.

I've been involved in not for profit since I was a teenager, and so that's a passion of mine and of course my family is the Caterpillar family, so that's a passion and bringing those two things together was ideal for me.

But I have to say that even though I thought I was ready for the impact and the role, the weight of the role, so that, you know, I treated the money of the foundation, like a business an ROI.

I felt a huge responsibility on behalf of the employees and dealers and customers who, you know, the money comes from Caterpillar Inc to the foundation to invest that we really made it the best return on every dollar that we had.

And I wanted them to know that because it took all those folks in order for, you know, us to receive the funds to invest.

And then also the partners are on the ground.

It was amazing to meet the people that we partnered with and their passion, and then to go see the impact personally.

And I mean, there were times when we went to places that had no roads, the children went to school under a tree, you know, things I thought I knew about, but you know, until you actually experience it, you know, you don't get the breadth of it, and it does change you, it absolutely change me.

A lot of the people that I met and I think of them often, and I took that experience with them back, and the team as well, my team got to travel and see the work that was very important.

And also the facilities around the world, you know, I wanted them to let us know what was important in their communities that we could help with, you know, under the umbrella that we had strategized for the foundation, which was working in poverty and the environment.

And so, we counted on the people in region to know what they thought that they needed help with.

And that was great, you know, to deCentralize some of that decision making.

And so it was really a cumulative amount of input that came with the investments, which I really enjoyed.

Because when you feel you have a part in it, you have ownership of it, like you said, and it makes you feel good, not just personally, but on behalf of Caterpillar and the Caterpillar Foundation, and so that was really thrilling for me.

And then when you see the success stories, you know, there were so many times, you know, you get teary eyed and you have a personal investment.

I mean, you're very tied to these folks because in my situation, being born a little person and have some disabilities, there are many places in the world that I could have been born into the countries that I would not have been given, the opportunity to be educated, nor the opportunity to have a job and thrive.

And so for me to be born in a country where it gave me that, that opportunity, where I could really walk through, and do the things that I wanted to do, and then also to be born into the family that I was born into.

So, you know, when you look at all of that, we all should sit back, and when we're able to travel, we should travel to see how other people live, because unless you've done that, you have no idea what people are going through.

I can't imagine for instance, what the people of the Ukraine are going through right now, as they wake up to the shelling and so (indistinct) I can't fathom that.

I can't fathom going to school under a tree, even though I've personally seen it, but I'm thrilled that they are being educated.

And when you go back to visit a place even in Central Illinois, and see how the investments are working, that's really fun too, to see that, you know, the impact is working to help with people.

You know, if I believe in a hand up more than a handout.

- Yeah, you know, you mentioned family and I don't wanna just lose the fact that your parents were so vital in your success and you know, a lot of people that you're talking about, going all over the world, they don't have access to just awesome parents.

Your dad, you describe what he did for you in the book, but you also, your mom was a saint.

And so, I just wanted to throw that in there because I knew your mom and she's just a great lady.

- Yeah, you know, very rarely will you do anything by yourself, think about all your accomplishments, and there were a lot of people who helped you get there.

And in the book I talk about that, and we need to throughout life acknowledge all the people that have helped us, who looked up to us to really give us the strength to go after what we wanted and we certainly should do that for others.

I deeply believe in, you know, assisting people and helping them get to their goals as well.

- Yeah, when I think of you, I think of many words, one of them is resiliency, and when you talk about one of the things that's my own personal goal, and you actually accomplished it was, you actually did a TED Talk.

And, it's like one of the coolest things.

You're the only person I've ever had on this show, that's ever done a TED Talk, and I think I may be wrong on this, but I think you're the only person from Caterpillar that's done a TED Talk, is that correct?

- Well, I think maybe one other person has done it now, but at the time in 2016, no one had done one yet.

It's incredibly difficult to do one because they just don't offer them to, you know, everybody, you really have to have a deep thinking topic.

And also just because you do a TED talk, I didn't know this, it doesn't mean that it gets published.

And so my understanding is, I could be wrong is that, they publish one a day only.

And so, the night before I was to give my Ted Talk and this one was in San Francisco.

And when you walk up to the building, there's 10 trucks of satellite dishes, 'cause it's all being broadcast worldwide and you start to get nervous.

And then I find out at just because you give one doesn't mean it's gonna be published.

Matter of fact, it's highly unlikely it's not, and it's a lot of work because mine was 12 minutes long, you don't use any notes, you just walk out onto that red dot and there's a big clock in the back and you better keep your time.

And so I thought, you mean, I did all this and it may not even be published?

I don't know that I would've done it had I known that, but I'm so glad I did, it was a lot of pressure and they helped you a lot along the way to really fine tune it.

And you know, for me, it was an emotional talk, and the only time I got through it without breaking down was the day I gave the talk.

So I was really nervous about, you know, being a blubbering person, which I would not have been happy about, and I did get through it.

- That's funny because I was gonna ask you, if you got nervous, 'cause I've never really seen you nervous, you just kind of have that, I'll use the word again, you're just resilient in what you do.

So I've always wondered that, so that's good.

- I was nervous.

(laughing) - Well, you know, I have four daughters and I talk about my kids all the time and I had my older daughters read your book right when it came out, because I think it's important for girls to have women to look up to.

And I know you talk about that, I know you've gotten inspirational letters.

I mean, what can you tell people like my daughters right now that wanna get into business and want to really follow the path that you have paved?

- You know, I think it's incredibly important, especially for young girls and growing up women to have self-esteem.

And if you don't have self-esteem, then you look to other people, men or whoever to give you that, or give you that protection et cetera.

And when you start doing that, you can get in some real bad situations I'll say.

And if you have self-esteem and confidence though, it does help you move forward knowing that we're all gonna make mistakes.

And I will tell you that when things don't work out, you learn more from that than if everything in life just goes exactly as you have planned.

- Yeah.

- And rarely does it do that, but when something is fortunate does happen, you know, you have to look at a perspective, okay, this happened so what do I do with it?

- And if you really look deep, it's usually a good thing.

And you have to then, you know, rotate to make it work, or adjust, you know, whether you're a career, or what you wanna do, or if you're dealing with, say a relationship or something like that, you know, maybe you need to take a second look and adjust a little bit.

But for me, young children, all children, but especially girls, the greatest gift in my opinion, you can give them, is self-esteem and confidence.

- [Matt] Oh wow.

- So that they do not have to depend on another person, especially as they get into relationships because that can have a great influence on you in a way that you don't want.

- I love that.

- You don't feel confident enough to push back.

And I got that, yep.

- You do yeah, and I think as a father-- - And as a child, I got it.

And it was tough because, you know, I was always smaller than everyone, and it was gonna be that way, that was not gonna change.

I mean, I got that loud and clear when I was a child.

And so I wasn't gonna be the person in sports, etcetera.

So I had to find my own path, and I was part of an organization starting at age 12 with Little People of America, which is people born with autism.

And, you know, when I'm around my friends who are, you know, little people, they can relate a lot to what I'm going through and vice versa.

And, you know, education is really stressed and also just being confident with who you are.

And the world now is much more accepting than it was, you know, back in the day, and I think we have a long way to go, you know, today we have trans people and others that are really trying to come out, you know, and be themselves, and there's people who don't agree with it.

And I think we're losing the art of collaboration and compromise.

We all don't have to agree on every single thing, but we should respect it, and let people be who they are.

And so I think we have a long way to go on that aspect.

- That's a good way of putting it, so I'll switch gears here.

You've been on many, many boards and committees over your career, how do you juggle those requests?

I mean, because somebody that's competitive like you, you kind of wanna do a lot.

- I do, and I will tell you that, I have backed off a little bit and I'm really going after what my passions are, and it definitely has to be involving social impact, and also there's other things I'm working on personally that I like, and so I have backed off some boards so that I can have time to do some of the things I personally like to do as well.

And I also enjoy, you know, my time in Florida for the winter, things like that.

But I do like being a part of, you know, impactful organizations.

It's very, for me, you know, it it's very, it brings meaning to what I'm doing.

And it's, for me, every single thing has to have an impact on people, or I don't do it.

- [Matt] Or you don't.

- And the same with my speaking, if I don't feel that I can connect or make an impact with what they're trying to do, then I don't do it.

- You know, one of the boards that you're on, or been on is the one board and Bono from U2's on that board, and he actually wrote a testimonial on your book.

And he said, Michelle Sullivan's so sharp that you can get cut on the pages of the book.

(laughing) And he had so many cool, complimentary things about you, but I wanna kind of talk about, when you're talking about people on that board, like a Cheryl Sandberg, like Bono, I mean, huge names.

And you, when you talk about social impact, it really doesn't matter the celebrity of the person, right?

- Right, you know, that's exactly right.

You hear a lot of people talk about those that, you know, have a lot of money, et cetera, which they absolutely do, but when you really get to know them and see what they do outside of the camera and how much time they spend on social issues, and they also use their celebrity to bring awareness to a program unlike you and me who most people don't know, if we talk about it, you know, it doesn't even make the headline in Peoria, let alone around the world, but they know how to use their celebrity image to bring awareness.

And then they also go to the governments and fight for change and they advocate for changes and policy.

And when you start making change at the, when you start advocating for change at the policy level, meaning the legislation, then you start to see exponential impact, start to work its way down to the groups on the ground.

- [Matt] Gotcha.

- And so I have really grown to appreciate folks, I would never had been given, you know, access to see all this work that they really do behind the scenes, you know, for instance, Bono travels and does all the concerts, where people don't see us, you know, he does a concert till late at night, and then the next morning, more often than not, he's meeting with the government official in that city or country.

Advocating for those who are living in poverty or have, you know, diseases that we're trying to help with as well.

Nobody sees that, he could sleep or do whatever he wanted, and he's not, he's always, always advocating the next day.

- When you're talking about diversity and inclusion and that's one of the topics you speak on, you've actually lived it in the corporate world because of who you are, right?

So is there a, now that it's in the spotlight, those terms, diversity and equity and inclusion constantly, you know, it's almost like sometimes people hear it, but really don't know what it means, but you actually have been preaching it for a while.

- I have and that's just what you see though.

I preach about diversity and inclusion in terms of your life experiences as well.

- [Matt] Right.

- I go deeper into what's called intersectionality, which is, you know, we are more than you can see, you know, a lot of people would describe me as short, you know, squeaky voice, funny laugh.

And I describe myself as an advocate, a collaborator, a person of faith, family oriented, and passionate in the social space.

None of those things that I describe myself as you can see, until you get to know me.

And so for me, it's not just male, female, Black, White, Latino know it's, you know, who are we and what have you been through in your life that you can bring to the table in our business or organization?

What is it that we're missing?

You know, who can you speak for?

What kind of customers, what type of innovation do we need in that part of the world?

Things like that.

So I think it's much deeper and what you can see and most people they'll get hung up on, you know, the numbers.

How many females do we have, et cetera.

And I go much deeper when I would interview for a team, an opening on my team.

You know, I always asked about their life, and situations they had, because it told me a lot about or perspective and how they handle things.

- That's an awesome answer, another thing that you are is a mentor.

So you're a mentor to me too, so I appreciate that, but you're also a mentor to others.

And so let me ask you this, on that topic of mentorship, do you have mentors yourself, or have you a over your career, or have you just kind of, I'm guessing in the Caterpillar world, they have coaching and things like that, or, how did that work?

- Yeah, they do and you know, I would argue that mine has been more informal.

I'm very outgoing and, you know, have the gifted of God, so I talk to everybody, but I also watch, I learn more about watching people and how they treat others or how they go about their business, about what I don't wanna be like.

- [Matt] Oh, wow.

- I don't like certain things on how people treat others.

And I watch, I really watch, I like to think I have a sixth sense about, you know, how is it you conduct yourself.

And so I learned a lot that way.

And you know, people at Caterpillar absolutely gave me opportunities, I still had to perform and shine, but they saw that I had the potential and that, you know, some of the managers didn't, and that they were, you know, opening the door for me to shine, and I appreciate that and they know who they are, and they're mentioned in the book a lot of them, and of course, you know, outside of work, I have, you know, the same with my friends and the community, I call it my village around me.

And we're all of, you know, to be honest, you know, we like the social impact stuff and that's a passion, and you know, it's how you treat somebody is what people really, you know, learn a lot from and realize.

And if you don't treat them right, then I don't wanna be around you.

- Well, I hear you.

Well, Michelle-- - You know, I firmly believe we all have value.

- Yeah, I love having you on, I appreciate you coming on.

Your book is, "Looking Up," it's a great read.

This has been a fun show, this is another episode of Business Forward.

- [Michelle] Thank you.

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