(inspiring music) (inspiring music continues) - In 2024, US consumers reported losing more than $12.5 billion to scams, and that's a 25% increase compared to the previous year.

While the number of fraud reports remain stable, the percentage of people reporting losses increased significantly, and it affects everyone.

And we wanna help you to hopefully avoid being scammed.

Joining us today, Jessica Tharp, the President and CEO of the Better Business Bureau of Central Illinois, good to see you.

- Thanks for having me.

- So you've been with the Bureau a long time, more than 20 years, and you've seen the evolution of scams, and it's just amazing what's out there.

- Oh my gosh, it has changed so much.

You know, one of the top scams when I first started, Mark, was the Stuffing Envelope scam, where you could work from home, which was not a thing, and make tons of money, and of course it was a scam.

But even then, it was a highly-mechanized process that eliminated the need for home workers.

But now we're seeing the same employment scams, still topping the charts, offering high earnings with little or no experience, working from the comfort of your home.

- And with the technology that's just exploded and keeps getting better every day, we'll talk about AI in a minute, but it seems like that's created more problems too with emails, smartphones, things like that.

- Oh, yeah.

- Just more ways for people to scam.

- Yeah, talking about the evolution, door to door being the origination or even print ads, and now obviously people bombarded with telephone calls all the time with scammers, fraudulent text messages, things in your email you have to be afraid to click on, and things on social media, it's relentless, it really is.

- Out of all your years, and you don't have to get into specifics, but what's the worst scam in terms of someone who's been taken for money?

What amount of money has someone been taken for that you know of?

- Well, when Bitcoin first became a thing of a latest investment medium, people were putting in life savings.

I mean, I'm talking like $80,000-$90,000 being invested into Bitcoin, and it's gone, and they never see it back.

I think the hardest though too is the romance scams where people feel like, or they've been convinced that they are in a relationship with someone that doesn't really exist, and it's really a scammer out to get their money.

So, I mean, there's been numerous times where I've had to tell somebody, "I don't think you're engaged to them.

I don't think that they're a real person."

And helping them kind of navigate how I can spot it and helping them come to that resolution on their own.

But it's a heartbreak.

- Yeah, sure is.

- It's a heartbreak finding out that this person that you were in love with doesn't exist.

- Now do these people in our area who are getting scammed, I'm sure plenty of them are, once they do find out, if they find out they're embarrassed.

- Oh yeah.

- Don't wanna talk about it.

How do you maneuver that kind of thing?

- Well, it's important to know that everyone is targets, everyone is a target of a scam.

You, me, our family, our neighbor, our kids, our parents, everybody is a target because they're after your information or your money, and everybody's got that in some way, shape, or form.

So it used to be the old adage of seniors were the main victims of a scam, and that's not necessarily true.

What does make them attractive is they tend to have more cash on the side that it's easier for them to access.

If somebody came up to you and I and asked for $40,000, we'd be like, "Okay, that's not a thing."

But somebody might have that if they're in their senior years.

So as far as understanding that everybody is targeted in a scam, and if you are a victim, the most important thing you can do is report it and get information on what to do next.

And that's where the BBB comes in.

And we're never going to make you feel dumb.

And that's usually what we hear is, "Oh my gosh, I'm so stupid, I shouldn't have fallen for that."

Well, these are professional people.

Their pride is in how many people can they take advantage of.

How many people can they trick so they become really crafted at what they do, and they're using technology to make it even easier to convince you that they are who they say they are.

- When I was younger, I always used to get frustrated when I would hear these scam stories, especially with older people, and now I'm one of those older people.

I'm thinking, "How could they fall for that?"

But man, as technology continues to grow and grow and grow and the scammers become more sophisticated, sometimes it is really hard to tell what's real and what's not.

- Yeah, and what's interesting is how interconnected all of the scams are.

So I mentioned the romance scam, right?

So typically this is where a local resident believes they're in a relationship with someone typically overseas, a very prestigious career, sometimes in the military.

And they develop this relationship, they isolate that individual, all in an effort to get them to send them money.

There's a problem with the business.

"I can't order the iPads for my employees like I need to, could you help me out, dear?

Could you help me out and order these iPads?

I need you to ship them to this address for me so my employees can work."

Well, what's happening is somebody has applied for a work-from-home job, and their job is to inspect quality merchandise and repackage it and ship it out somewhere else.

And of course we're using stolen credit cards, but they've developed this ring that makes it very hard to track the money because it's going here and it's being changed and it's going there and it's getting changed and things like that.

- Yeah, a lot of people lately have been talking about texts that they've been getting, like say, from the state of Illinois, "You owe toll money."

Well, I've gotten a lot of those.

I've gotten random ones where someone just says, "Do you have time to talk?"

And it's from a number I've never seen before, and I have a feeling that's some kind of scam too.

- Absolutely, they're trying to verify that your number has a live person on the other end.

- Okay, so short of turning off your phone, turning off your email, not being on your computer, what are some tips you have for folks to try and avoid being scammed?

- Okay, a couple of tips.

Question everything.

Go into every email that you don't know what it is, every phone call as jaded as Jessica at the Better Business Bureau is, okay?

I question everything and you should too.

And if you're not sure, just call us.

We do that work all the time, we know what to look for.

So just knowing that you're going to need some more information before you hand over a credit card number, before you hand over any kind of personal information about yourself, whether it's a driver's license or a social security, Medicare is a big one that confuses people.

So just know that they're out to get you and that you are your own best protection with double checking things and getting more information.

So that's really the best advice.

- Sure, what about passwords?

What's your opinion on what people should do with those and not do?

- Yeah, passwords are the bane of our existence, aren't they?

And they really are a valuable tool.

You know, we recently interviewed Pearl Technology on our podcast for the BBB, and they talked about how we need the passwords.

So thinking of different ways to remember your password, maybe it's a song lyric that you like.

Making a pass phrase instead of a password can be a little bit easier to remember instead of coming up with all of those crazy characters that the recommended password comes up with.

So have fun with it.

- So the extra time it takes you to type it out is worth it?

- It is, it really is, yeah.

- So I shouldn't use 1234?

- As long as you're not wearing the t-shirt that's like... (both laughing) - Yeah.

Well, and speaking of Pearl, we work with them too.

And our IT people actually send us scam emails to see if we know what we're doing and they look good.

- Yeah, and I think it trains you to be jaded.

It trains you to have that mindset of something's going to try to trick me today, which one is it?

And then you have to pick which one it is.

But it's just that practice of, "Okay, something in here is gonna make me vulnerable.

Which one is it?"

- Sure, I know it's storm season and over in Normal, we had some bad hail a few weeks ago.

And I think the next day I had a guy show up at my doorstep saying, "Hey, we're in town and we're fixing roofs."

- And we've heard all kinds of stories about the people who travel from town to town, and some are legit, but a lot aren't.

How do you vet someone who just shows up at your door, or should you just say, "Thanks, but no thanks."

- Yeah, certainly checking with the Better Business Bureau is a great resource for you to vet anybody, to see who they are and what are other experiences have people had about that company.

Folks in our area need to know that roofing is a licensed industry in the state of Illinois.

So that means you have to pass a test in order to get your roofing license.

It's not just like our license plates where we just pay a fee and you get it.

It's a test, a competency test.

And that's important because you wanna make sure that the person on your roof knows how to fix it properly.

We've seen all kinds of things come through the Better Business Bureau where something flashing wasn't installed correctly, or the shingles weren't put down properly, and your insurance isn't going to cover a bad roof repair.

So that'll be on you to deal with the contractor, which already would be a nightmare.

So just checking them out through the BBB is a huge first step.

The other thing, when you have a storm, like what we get in Central Illinois is you've gotta be really familiar with your homeowner's insurance policy, because some of the other issues that we are hearing about are people that have insurance, they've hired a legitimate company and they're having a hard time getting that roof replaced.

So understanding do you have replacement cost or actual cost?

And knowing that one of them incorporates the depreciated value of that roof.

So it's a lot of headache because most people think, "I have homeowner's insurance, it's gonna be covered, no problem."

That's not the case.

- Yeah, what about online purchases, paying bills online?

What are some tips you have for that?

- Use a credit card.

Your credit card offers a lot more protections than a debit card, and it's not tied directly to your checking account.

So always use a credit card and they have better processes in place when there's a dispute, maybe you didn't get the thing that you ordered, things like that, they can help get your money back.

- Good to know.

Some of the big scams that you've mentioned too, the romance, friendship scams, a lot of financial grooming type scams.

Is it one of those things where you should probably think to yourself if it's too good to be true, it probably is.

- Absolutely.

You know, the romance scam has taken a different twist as of late with using celebrities.

So folks in our area are under the impression that they're direct messaging with a major celebrity and they have a relationship with that person.

And so when it comes time to sending the celebrity money, certainly what do they need money for?

- Oh right, yeah, that's a red flag.

- But when your heart's on the line, you ask less questions.

And so that's what's going on.

So if you think that you're direct messaging with a major celebrity like Mr.

Beast, or Jennifer Aniston, or Elon Musk, or any of those, Harrison Ford, they're not direct messaging you, and you're probably wrapped up in a scam.

- Sure, what about social media And I mean, you get all kinds of ads and things, but also like Facebook marketplace and buying things from people, eBay, things like that?

- Oh my gosh, Mark, this has been the common theme of 2025 so far of people in our area, and we gotta love our classic car guys.

They want to get that dream car and it's available on the other side of the country.

And so usually on marketplace, the process is, or the scam process I should say, is you have to put some money down to secure that car will not be sold to somebody else.

And then here comes this web of, "Okay, well now we need you to pay in full for the car and now we need you to pay for the transportation, which is another scam company by the way.

And so they're taking your money and they're gonna need insurance on the car, and we're gonna need transportation fees and all of these fees, fees, fees, fees, fees, until you're like, "What is going on?

I just want the car," and it's not real.

So what I recommend in those situations is if you right click on the image that you see on marketplace, you can do a Google image search, or a Lens search.

And what this is gonna tell you is how many times does this exact same image appear on the internet.

Because with the classic car thing, we're seeing that they're pulling these real cars off of legitimate car dealer websites or classic car vendors and they're trying to sell them on marketplace, only they don't have the car.

- Hmm.

Wow.

What are your thoughts on when it comes to paying for this kind of stuff?

Some people, a lot of people want cash, but then some people also accept PayPal, Venmo.

Is it better to do one of those app services that are genuine or no?

- Yeah, we see a lot of scams perpetrated with those kind of cash type applications.

So I don't really have a recommendation on either of those.

My advice is if you're buying something off of marketplaces, go see it in person yourself.

Try to really avoid buying anything that you aren't gonna see after you give them your money.

- Sure.

Makes sense.

Well, speaking of technology, let's talk about AI, Artificial Intelligence, which seems to be getting smarter by the day.

I guess that's what it's for.

- Yeah.

- How are scammers using that to do their evil deeds?

- Okay, well, it's going to get really, really interesting.

So currently what we're seeing is the rapid, I guess ability of scammers to contact people using AI.

They're able to mass dial and mass create effective-looking emails and that kind of thing.

They're using AI to break barriers, like you mentioned the email test that you guys have to do.

They're the barriers that we're all putting up in place and figuring out a way, how do I get around that?

But I think my biggest forecast is that the AI technology is able to produce such real-looking images and videos that people aren't going to know what's real or what's not.

And it's going to really open up a can of worms in terms of any type of scam, because you think you can see something with your own eyes and it's real.

And so your judgment is based off of that.

Well, here you go, it looks real.

- Those romance scams could get a lot worse.

- Mm-hmm.

- Do we still have, it's almost become a running joke the Nigerian prince scam and that goes all the way back to snail mail.

You still have things like that going on?

- Oh yeah, yep.

Only now it's an email.

I get them myself, they're trusting me to hold their family's heirlooms of millions of dollars and if I could just give him my bank account number, I would really be helping him out.

(Jessica laughing) - Yeah, no kidding.

Helping him out a lot.

- Yes.

- Gosh, what are some other scams that are prevalent these days?

- I mean, anything related to the marketplace, there is some type of scam.

Our sweet little puppies, we see lots of puppy scams or animal scams, any kind of unique breed.

Going back to the marketplace type thing.

We see animals listed online for sale.

And again, it's a scam.

People send hundreds if not thousands of dollars to get hopefully a new family member only to find out that it's fake.

Businesses are targeted in scams as well.

The latest, everybody's trying to hire, and so they're getting fake employment applications as well.

So one of the pieces of advice we recently learned about is if you're doing an interview online, whether you're the applicant or the employer, ask the other person to wave in front of their face so you can see if it's pixelated or not.

- Yeah, I know someone who had kind of a pre-interview and it was via Zoom.

Well, it was online and they had to record themselves answering questions and send it to a person.

I mean, I think it was on the up-and-up, but still, it's kind of strange.

- It is kind of strange, and I think here in Central Illinois, we're still a little old school in that way, that we wanna sit down with people, but understanding that this could be a problem, right?

And how do we make sure that that business exists that you're applying for?

And then businesses have to start safeguarding themselves as well and checking out who is applying.

- Do people still have problems with, I don't know, I don't write checks, but with fake checks, bouncing checks?

- That's another scam businesses are targeted in.

So it's like, they get an email from someone saying, "Hey, I'm out of town, could you go, but I need you to take care of this job at my house?"

And so whether it's a pressure washer or a roofer or window guy or whatever, landscaper, or whatever, they get the information on the house and the "scammer" we'll call it says, "Okay, I can't be there, but I need you to take care of it.

I've got a check in the mail for you, so as soon as you get the check head over there."

So they get the check, and so they go over there and they do the work, only the check bounces and the whole thing is a sham, except the part where they put the check in the bank and the scammer has that information.

- Okay.

Most of the things we've talked about affect adults and older adults.

But what about kids?

I know the answer to this question, are there scammers out there trying to target kids?

And if so, what kind of things should parents be on the lookout for?

- Oh my gosh, I mean, obviously there's the predators, the real predators that we've gotta be on the lookout for.

But in terms of marketplace-type scams, it's the enticing ads that they're being presented with on Instagram and TikTok for whatever it is they're interested in, you name it.

The ad looks real, the price is great.

I hear my daughter always say, "Mom, they're having a 40% off sale."

I'm like, "Who is it?

Where are they located?"

And if you can't answer that question, then we're not shopping there.

And teaching them how to check out a company is going to be a huge piece of information that they need because they're not questioning it.

- Right, yeah, they're not thinking that far ahead, are they?

- Mm-mm.

It's not their debit card that's going in.

(both laughing) - That's right, that's right.

But when it comes to, let's jump back to smartphones and texting and things like that.

We hear in this one, crazy, we hear from local law enforcement, almost every county in our viewing area, individual cities, they'll say they'll send out an email or they'll send out a Facebook message that says, "We will not ask you for this and that via text or over the phone," things like that.

What else do people have to be looking for besides police departments?

- Oh gosh, yeah.

- Fake police departments I should say.

- Wasn't it somebody was called for jury duty and they wound up calling the local judge and trying to get her, told her she was late for jury duty and they wanted to fine her or something.

It was kind of interesting.

Yeah, just understanding that it's most likely a scam.

That whole, it's too good to be true type adage is, "This is probably a scam" is kind of the way you have to take those calls.

It's like, "What, I've never had this call before."

There's probably a reason.

And you have absolutely every single right to look into something before you give out any information.

So we see that really heavily around the holidays with communities being targeted in charitable giving.

"Will you donate to this?

Will you donate to that?"

And there's a lot of high pressure there.

They really pull on your heartstrings.

Well, you should know that you have every right to say, "I'll look into that, and if I'm interested I'll call you back."

Because a legitimate organization will want you to call back or they will take your call.

You don't have to do something right now.

- Sure.

We've talked about some ways to avoid these things and if it does happen to you, you mentioned using a credit card, that's a good way to maybe get your money back.

But what are some other things you can do after the fact?

- Okay, so if it's most scams, whether it's an employment scam or a puppy scam, or whatever the scam, the chances of you getting your money back are slim.

So what we have to do next is to stop the bleeding per se.

We need to protect your information, we need to change accounts and things like that.

So there's a gamut of things that need to happen next, and we understand that this is a hugely emotional time for you, and there's a lot going on.

So we can send out a checklist to you of something that you have it in your control.

These are the things that you can do now.

And most of the time, like I said, it's changing bank accounts, it's turning off a credit card or a debit card.

It's possibly contacting the Social Security administration to get a new number and then all of the things that go along with that.

So it is a overwhelming time.

- Sure.

What else is the BBB doing?

20 years ago plus when you started, I think a lot of people thought of the Better Business Bureau and they thought, "Oh, that's the place where I go if I wanna complain about bad service or a crooked contractor or something.

And now scams and everything else.

What is your office doing, kind of blanket-wide to help the community out?

- Yeah, we help people is what we do.

We help consumers and we help businesses.

And dispute resolution is still a very strong part of what we do today.

Our goal is to help two parties that are at odds, find a resolution, and we work essentially as mediators to try to get things to move forward toward that resolution goal.

And that's still a really effective way.

I mean, it's fast, it's free, and it's fair.

We're neutral and our interest is you guys sorting this out.

We also do consumer reviews and we do it different than most other platforms, as two things.

One, we verify that the person is real, that is filing the customer review.

It's not a bot, they really had an interaction with that person, it's not a competitor filing a negative review.

It's not an employee trying to boost their own numbers.

It's a real consumer filing a customer review, and then we send it to the business first.

And we do that because we want them to have a chance to see it and respond to it before it goes on BBB.org.

So when you're reading information on the Better Business Bureau's website, you know that it's a balanced view.

If there is no com company response, well they had the opportunity.

And so when you're looking at complaints, more importantly than the complaint is, what did the company do about it?

How was it resolved?

So you can see the whole story of, "Okay, they took care of that issue," or, "Holy crap, they did not."

And then you can make your decision from there.

So we do a lot of work in that area.

Education is a big part of what we do.

A lot about scams of course, but maybe your teenager's getting ready to buy their first car and you know how kids don't listen to you, the parent, they need to hear it from somebody else?

- Yeah.

- Well you can send 'em to the Better Business Bureau.

We're gonna give 'em the rundown of what to expect when you go test drive a car, what to do next, that kind of thing.

But just basically anything in the marketplace we can help with, and if you're starting a business or if you're newly in business and you've got some pain points, we have the resources of information that you can take away from and help become a better business.

- All right, well lots of stuff out there, lots of scary stuff, but we're glad that people like you are around trying to help us out.

And boy, like Jessica said, if it's too good to be true, it probably is.

- It probably is.

But you can check.

- Yes, yes.

Double check on everything.

All right, Jessica, thanks for your help, and the website people can go to?

- BBB.org.

- Okay, great stuff on there.

Thank you very much.

- Thanks for having me.

- All right, thank you for joining us.

We appreciate it.

You can check us out at wtvp.org anytime, and we are on Facebook and Instagram.

Have a good night.

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