- Will you consider this?

Very early on, she probably began to see that the glass ceiling could be shattered.

Being modest, she may not have considered it was in her scope of reality.

I'm Christine Zak-Edmunds.

Stay with me to hear her fascinating story.

(upbeat music) She grew up in Peoria, and at an early age, was determined she wanted to be a pilot.

That dream and her determination led Laura Radley to the Air Force Academy and beyond.

I welcome retired Air Force Colonel Laura Radley.

How are you?

Glad you're back in Peoria.

- Yeah, thank you very much for having me.

It's nice to come back once or twice a year and see my parents.

- And well, you used to be able to stay in your old room, but they've moved now.

- They have.

They moved outta the family home we were in for about 47 years in High Point, just up across Mont Holly.

- And that was okay with you for them to do that?

- They stayed in the same zip code, so absolutely.

- Good.

All right, So tell me about yourself.

You were born and raised in Peoria?

- Absolutely.

I went to Kellar Grade School, Washington Grade School and then graduated high school from Richwoods.

- All right, and you loved it there.

When, um, Air Force, we have an air base here now, you know, but it's not exactly what you did.

What piqued your interest there?

- My parents had no real affiliation with the military other than my father's brief stint before Vietnam, during Vietnam.

So when I was in third grade, our family Christmas present was a telescope.

And it just was amazing.

And they got me in some classes at Lakeview to learn about astronomy and that's when I decided I wanted to go to the Air Force Academy.

I wanted to be a pilot.

I wanted to learn how to fly rocket jets and eventually go into space.

And my parents were very encouraging and supportive of that.

- Nothing, nothing could stop that dream.

- Absolutely, they never, they never told me no I can't do anything.

And they encouraged most things that I wanted to do.

- Well, you went from, straight from high school, so 1986, not that we're, not mentioning your age, you went straight from high school to the Air Force Academy.

You had to apply and there was kind of a a rigorous process you had to go through.

- Yeah, absolutely.

And it's similar today.

They look at the whole student concept.

So, academics, grades, extracurricular activities.

So, I did cheerleading and swimming and some other activities while I was in high school.

And then there's also a nomination.

And so at the time, Congressman Michel, Bob Michel, was our representative here, and so through a nomination from his appointment I was accepted.

And so that's how I got to the academy.

- And you went there and you were female, you're a woman.

How difficult was it to incorporate into what, in by and large, was male?

- Mostly men.

Absolutely, and it still is.

At the time I was there in the late 80s, mid 80s, about one in 12 to 13 cadets was a female.

And now it's about one to eight cadets is a female.

But again, I just, I didn't know any different.

And so the other women in my class and I, just we were all there for the reasons we wanted to be there and graduate.

And so we just kind of did it day by day.

- And did they all make it?

Everybody stayed with it and made it, or did some drop out?

- You know, the women at the military academies have the same attrition rate as as the men.

So it really depends on what your personal goals to graduate are.

And for me, I went there wanting to be an astronaut.

And I took my first test, and I remember this very well, and it didn't go so well.

And so at that point I changed my goal to just I wanna graduate and I wanna be a pilot.

- Well, what happened?

How did that, how did the bottom drop out?

- I think here, growing up, I was very motivated to succeed and excel and I was able to do that.

And then going to a military academy, you're with a thousand other people that wanna succeed and excel.

So it was just figuring out that dynamic and how to study a little differently away from my bedroom in Peoria, Illinois, and how to get through that chapter.

So it ended up going very well.

But I did graduate, and at the time, being an astronaut at that moment was not in the cards, but being a military pilot was.

So I went to pilot school and came out flying cargo planes at the time, C-141s, and then.... - [Christine] Those are big birds.

- They are, they are.

And now they've transitioned to C-17 cargo plane.

So I was a mobility pilot for my active duty career.

- That's crazy.

So did you actually see...?

Those wings, I mean they lift up because they're carrying all that heavy equipment.

How was it to get that puppy off the ground?

- Again, just that I didn't know any different.

And the military training is just very, very rigid, very set, very checklist-driven.

And I was the only female in my class at pilot training, so about 32 men and me.

So I definitely knew I wasn't like everybody else, but I really was like everyone else and had to study and go through check rides and meet the curriculum and graduate.

- And how were the men in accepting you?

Because that was a challenge for them.

I mean, we've seen the movie Top Gun and Top Gun 2.

So how was that in terms of, you know, trying to give you a nick here and there?

- Sometimes it was like having 32 older brothers that.... (both laughing) - [Christine] Well, that's a good thing.

- It was.

And then other times it wasn't as comfortable as maybe it is now, or maybe in some situations it's still not comfortable.

But it's just part of ultimately having that goal and stay in mine, and mine was to graduate so I wasn't gonna let anything or anyone deter that.

- Get in your way.

Good for you, good For you.

What was the most frightening thing that has happened to you as you've been piloting a plane?

- Being in charge.

The Aircraft Commander.

So by the time I was in my mid to late 20s I was the Aircraft Commander.

So a female.

I was the rank of a Captain and in charge of this crew.

And at the time we had eight to 12 crew members.

And I'll tell you, we were flying and then we started having some malfunctions on the airplane.

But you train for it every day.

It's very procedural.

Me as the one in charge, is directing how to get through the emergency.

Again, very standard to deal with nonstandard things.

And then one of my co-pilots, a man, but he was a pretty vocal man, suggested we do an alternate course of action.

And so at the moment I think I doubted myself and listened to his loud voice.

And so, we changed directions, and I was still in charge, but then now I was acquiescing because I could rationalize his input.

- It's teamwork, right.

- Exactly.

But pretty, pretty quickly after doing that I realized it was not gonna be the right thing to do.

And so I had to now go back...made a decision.

- To your original plan.

- Go, and go back.

And then the perception was I doubted myself.

And so, that was a big lesson to me.

And when I'm in charge, absolutely teamwork is very important, but there's no reason to doubt myself.

I'm in that position because I deserve to be in that position of in charge.

- And that was recognized.

Then, that's a white knuckle moment.

What has been the most exhilarating, fun thing that has happened to you while you've been piloting, or a crazy fun story?

- Well, it's amazing the opportunity being a cargo pilot, military airlift pilot.

And I had the opportunity to be stationed out at McChord Air Force Base which is in Tacoma, Washington, the Pacific Northwest.

And then for the second half of my flying career I was in Charleston, South Carolina.

And so, I got the chance to fly and visit all through Asia and the Pacific and Australia.

And then I also got the chance out of Charleston to fly all through Africa and Europe.

So really, the highlights are just being able to see.... - [Christine] The world.

- Amazing places.

- Exactly.

That is awesome.

Well, from there, you retired from the Air Force after 30 years?

Or more?

- It was, it was.

The second half of my military career though, in an effort to have a little more control of my life and not continually just be going overseas so much, I transitioned to become a logistics officer.

And through that I had an opportunity to command about 750 people where I was the person in charge of the people in charge of the civil engineers and the police and the human resources office and the people loading the cargo planes.

And that just gave me a fantastic perspective about teamwork.

And it takes everyone to do any mission, or you know, my case, the mission of flying the airplane.

- So, but 750 a day, you were moving around the puzzle pieces?

- Well, fortunately we have something in the military called span of control.

So, the 750 people were actually in seven squadrons and I was directly responsible for the seven squadron commanders.

And then each of them was responsible for just over a hundred people.

So it worked.

- My life's pretty boring compared to yours.

But then when you retired you were a commercial pilot for a while, you thought you'd give that a little try.

- I did, and actually my time with American Airlines was in between being a pilot on active duty and then coming into the Air Force Reserve full time.

And then the G in airline pilot stands for the glamour, was my experience.

And it's a fantastic career opportunity, and I definitely encourage anybody that's interested to do it.

But it just wasn't for me.

I didn't wanna be gone anymore.

I wanted to be at home.

And so, becoming a logistics officer full-time in the reserve is what gave me that opportunity to build the second chapter in my life.

- Well, now you have another chapter, Space Force.

It's kind of brand new.

- Absolutely.

And so... - So describe Space Force, 'cause a lot of people don't exactly know.

Oh yeah, Space Force, we gotta do Space Force.

Somebody's gotta.

It's protecting really, the skies and how many satellites are up there floating around.

- Absolutely, so Space Force was signed into law and then Congressionally approved December of 2019.

So, it's the sixth branch of our military service.

And for me coming full circle, to being a six-year old and getting that telescope to now being a civilian working for the Space Force, is truly amazing.

- [Christine] It's your way of being an astronaut, in a way.

- Absolutely, absolutely.

It's what makes sense for me here and now.

And going to work at the Pentagon every day is very exciting.

And to be in on the ground floor.

I was part of the second wave of the initial cadre of civilians to be hired in Space Force.

So really, America, the Department of Defense has not set up a new military service in 75 years since the Air Force.

And so, what we're doing now every day, it's really the first time it's been done.

- What is a day in your life in the Pentagon working for Space Force?

- So, Space Force is the smallest of the six services.

We only have about 13,000 people.

About 8,000 are Guardians wearing a uniform every day.

And then the other 5,000 are civilians like me.

Different than the other services, Space Force Uniform Guardians only do that space mission.

We don't have the logisticians or the civil engineers or the police or the human resources officer.

So, my position at the Pentagon, and the team of people I work with, is to work with the Air Force who provides all of those support services to the Space Force.

So, my experience having led those 750 people.... - [Christine] In logistics, right?

- Exactly.

Exactly.

And the other support entities is what qualified me to be in the position now to work those same types of issues on behalf of the service.

- How many satellites are in space?

How many do we have?

And then how many others are there?

And how many near misses are there, if you think about it?

- Well, a lot.

A lot.

(Christine laughing) And it depends on what type of satellite, whether it's communication satellite or different types of satellites.

One of the interesting missions with Space Force, and our main mission is to protect the domain of of space.

So, it's a geographic area.

One of the things that we do do is called space domain awareness.

And so, all that space junk you hear about, there are more than 41,000 pieces of space junk.

Any one of them could hit something to take out some type of communication.

And so that is one of the many missions we do in Space Force, is to track that.

- Do you figure out ways to get them down then to get, clear it out?

There's gotta be some some way to do that.

- Well, just with the tracking and notification, then to allow the owner of the different satellites to reposition them enough to not get injured or damaged.

- And hopefully, hopefully everything's working so that they can take control of that.

- Absolutely.

Absolutely.

- Why do you think it took so long to, we've had satellites there for how many years?

Why do you think it took so long for us to establish this sixth branch of the military?

- So actually, the original plans were on the shelf in 1998, which was fascinating to me to learn that the idea of a service of Space Force is not as new, I guess, as it appeared several years ago.

So the plans were on the shelf.

And then it's my understanding through orientations, that the money that had been set aside to create the service of Space Force, and at the time it was gonna be the Space Corp, so a little smaller than a service, was repurposed when September 11th, 2001 happened.

And rather than setting up the Space Corp, the money went to Homeland Defense.

And the transportation, or the TSA Agency, and all that was stood up.

And so the plans, the viable plans for the service remained on the shelf.

- [Christine] They weren't scraped, but they were just kind of put aside.

- Exactly, exactly repurposed, and then came to fruition.

- Do you look forward to going in every day?

I mean, is it a 40-hour week for you?

- It, it's definitely more.

- It can be.

- It can be, it can be.

But obviously I have the opportunity like this week, to take vacation time and come home with my parents.

I do look forward to going in every day, because every day there's gonna be something different.

Since we haven't done this in 75 years and now with technology and email and computers and the way we communicate, and then just managing our bureaucracy, every day, are new problems.

And then we have to be careful how we solve a problem to not create more problems.

And it takes a lot of communicating, a lot of research, a lot of innovation I would say, to make sure we're setting something up to solve a problem and not making the problem worse.

- Just incredible.

You said one of your personal biggest problems is for over 30 years you had a uniform to put on, you didn't have to worry about what to wear.

- Absolutely.

And now having to pick out civilian clothes every day, definitely different.

It was much more streamlined wearing that uniform every day.

But I wanted to continue to serve.

And so, whether I was serving in a uniform or in my business suit or slacks or whatever, I still really appreciate the opportunity to get to serve.

- And the vibe in the Pentagon.

So, you've been obviously accepted, because this is a service that we have needed.

- Absolutely, absolutely.

And for the Space Force, so we're part of the Department of the Air Force.

So like the Marines are in the Department of the Navy, the Space Force is in the Department of the Air Force.

And so, we have the Air Force, and the department, and our secretaries, the Secretary of the Air Force.

So he's the department, the Services Department.

There's already a good understanding and good knowing about the things that we need to do to provide, to have that support provided to do our mission.

- Of all the people that are involved in your office, how many have been in the military?

Maybe you said this already and maybe I just was half paying attention.

How many are former military and how many are just civilians?

Or are they all from military backgrounds?

- So, our office started with about 12 people.

And we've been at about 12 people for the past two years since the inception of Space Force.

And now just recently, we've gotten about five more people, and in the next year or two we'll get about 13 to 20 more people.

Initially, out of those 12, about six of us were prior military and the others were mostly career civilians.

So, they entered civil service at the same time the other ones of us entered uniform wearing military service.

- Very interesting.

And they're not intimidated by any of you who've been in the military because you do things a lot differently than most of, the rest of us?

- Well, fortunately in this, the Department of Defense Civil Service, there's so many ways to serve, whether you're a civilian or military.

So, those that hadn't done prior military service had been around enough people that were, and so under understand the language.

I mean we say there's a whole new language at work, it's called Pentagonese, and the way we talk and communicate.

- So, gimme an example of Pentagonese.

- Oh, you say the word leverage instead of use.

You say the cost benefit analysis.

You say tracking, are you tracking this?

So it's just the lingo in the communication.

- Our kids are probably using that language.

Our grandkids are probably using it.

We're old school, that's for sure.

- And one of the funny things about communicating in the Pentagon is it has to be done in PowerPoint or a bullet paper.

So you write.... - You're allowed to use the word bullet paper?

- That that's exactly what.

Because you're doing bullets, you're not.... - Right, bullet points.

Yes, bullet points.

- You don't really communicate much in complete sentences.

It's just what's the point, what's the background, and then what's the recommendation, and what's what's gonna be, probably happen if I don't do it.

- Get to it.

Just get to it, yeah.

Does it have to go in chronological order then?

- Well, typically you do what's called a BLUF, the bottom line up front.

And so, if someone doesn't have a chance to read the whole paper, they just read the top two sentences.

And then yes, you go from there.

- So how difficult was it for you to make that transition?

But you were already doing that in the Air Force?

- Exactly, exactly.

So it just kind of made sense.

I have understood the languages in the Air Force of both piloting, operating is what they call it, and then supporting.

And so now coming to this job in the Pentagon, it's a great marriage of both.

It's how do you support the operation, and then how do you communicate that, and then how do you advocate?

And so those communication tools have been very helpful.

- So, what do we as just common folk need to do to support Space Force and what it's doing, and to get it to grow so that we're safe?

- Well, I think the biggest thing is just to understand that it really is a viable, good thing for our national defense and for all of us.

And although, I know there are some pretty funny memes, and I have to say some of the memes, although probably well deserved, it's a viable service.

We have a need for it.

And it really aids and is a necessary part of our national defense.

And the inception of Space Force was not done with a little bit of self deprecating humor.

We have three subordinate commands.

So I'm at the Pentagon, and our three commands are the Space Operations Command, referred to as SpOC, and then our space Training and Readiness Command, which is referred to as STARCOM.

- Huh, well, getting back, you were also the first pilot for Special Ops?

- I did.

That was going back into the 1990s.

I had the opportunity to fly special operations cargo missions.

- Which is what took you around the world?

Probably?

- A little bit of everything to took me around the world.

The special operations, we kind of only went to a few places.

So really what took me around the world was missions like resupplying embassies and dropping cargo off to American, whether it's embassies or or military troops stationed everywhere.

- All right.

But, and the reason I brought it up, is because you mentioned Special Ops, or SpOC, with Space Force.

- So special operations, even though, I guess the acronyms are the same.

For Space Operations Command that is just the space mission.

So whether it's tracking the space junk, or detecting missile, early missile warning, or tracking the satellites we need to stay in their orbits.

The Space Operations Command is the operational command that does that main mission for the Space Force.

- And you're watching on a screen?

You're, you can see all this?

Or how are you able to envision all these things?

- So, the space operators at their locations, and one of the main locations is out in Colorado at a place called Shriever Space Force Base.

Absolutely, there are operation centers that are just like you would imagine or like we've seen in in movies.

Exactly.

Consoles, big screens.

A lot of smart people at keyboards.

- Okay.

That's incredible.

And you're very happy with what you're doing?

- I am, it's just fantastic.

And again, it just kind of comes full circle with, I'm not necessarily gonna have the opportunity to be an astronaut, but serving in the Space Force absolutely meets that goal of being a part of the space domain.

- The next best thing.

Well, so then, now bucket list?

Have you done just about everything?

- I have.

I have.

And I've had the opportunity to travel and I've had the opportunity to have some great jobs.

So now having my Colonel retirement and still being able to work for civil service, it's just enjoying my townhome in Old town Alexandria, Virginia with my dog, going to the dog park.

And then enjoying getting up and going to work at the Pentagon.

- You didn't wanna be a General?

- Well, (laughing) coming up through the Air Force, you get to a point as a Colonel where you're either going to be a General or.... - [Christine] Or not.

- Or you're gonna retire.

And so for me, it was retiring.

And part of it was, typically if you're a pilot, you stay a pilot the whole time until you retire.

Or if you're a logistics officer, you started as a logistics officer the whole time.

Because I was a pilot for the first half and a logistics officer for the second half, by the time I was a Colonel it made sense to retire.

- What fun, what fun.

So, you'll have more adventures that we can catch up with another time.

Meanwhile, today, while we're recording this, it is her birthday.

So, happy birthday to you.

- Thank you very much.

- And thanks for being with us.

And thank you for being with us.

I hope you enjoyed it.

I really enjoyed getting to know you.

I know your parents, they're great.

And all of you, look out into space, think of her, and stay safe and healthy and hold happiness.

(upbeat music)