(upbeat music) ♪ Hey ♪ ♪ Hey ♪ ♪ Hey ♪ (dramatic music) - You ever met that type of person that has done an incredible amount of interesting things in their life, and they just really don't brag about it?

Well, that's our guest today.

Today we're talking with Gary List.

Now Gary, you're from Secor, Illinois, is that right?

- Yes.

- Where is that at?

- Oh, it's about 10 miles east of Eureka.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, it's between El Paso and Eureka.

- Is that where you're from originally?

- No, I grew up in Washington, which is about 10 miles east of Peoria.

- Does Secor, does it have one of those Casey's?

- Does it What?

- Does it have a Casey's?

- I don't know.

I've never been in the town of Secor.

We live on a small farm way out in the boon- - You live on a farm there, but you've never been in a town?

- No.

- How big is it?

- I really can't say, it's just a little kind of a- - [Rob Sharkey] It must not be that big.

- Well, it's a fast spot on the road.

- (laughs) Gary, this is what kills me, you say you always knew you wanted to work in a chemistry lab.

- Yes.

- From like, how old did you know that?

- I would say I was probably 12 or 13.

- Yeah?

12 or 13?

You're supposed to be, I don't know, playing army or something like that, but you wanted to create stuff.

- I did.

I don't have enough time to go into a lot of detail, but I stopped by our local library one afternoon, checked out a couple books.

They were biographies of Thomas Edison and Michael Faraday.

Edison was a great inventor, Faraday was probably one of the most outstanding scientists of the 19th century.

He discovered the laws of electromagnetism, laid the foundation for generating electricity and so on.

- Faraday cages, right?

- What?

- Faraday cages, like if you have an electric pulse or whatever, he figured out- - Oh yeah.

- Yeah.

- Yeah, yeah.

He was a brilliant guy.

That set the wheels in motion, I wanted to be a scientist.

- [Rob Sharkey] Okay.

- My senior year in high school, an Army recruiter visited our school- - [Rob Sharkey] Yeah.

- And I learned that the Army had use for chemical corps people to do lab work.

So they promised me if I enlisted that school would be guaranteed to me.

And- - Was this during a war?

- No, no, it was circa 1960.

- Okay.

- So I did, I enlisted, and true to their word, I was sent to the Chemical Corps school.

I graduated.

At the time, I could have been sent to Dugway Proving Ground.

- I don't know what that is.

- Well, it's, they test the effects of various warfare agents on animals.

- [Rob Sharkey] Oh, the bad, the nasty stuff.

- Yeah, bad stuff.

Works well when the wind blows in the right direction, but anyway, the third place I could have been sent was Edgewood Arsenal in Maryland, where all the chemical warfare research was being conducted.

I interviewed with a civilian biochemist, and he asked me, you know, "What do you want to do?"

And I said, "Well, I've always dreamed of working in a lab."

And he said, "Fine, you'll be my technician."

So in the group was a Black lady whose husband worked down the hall.

So I got to know him and I'll never forget, I was sitting in a chair across from him and he said, "List, what are you gonna do while you're here?"

"Well, it's always been my hope to work in a chemical lab for Dr.

Michelle."

He said, "Well, let me give you some good advice-" - [Rob Sharkey] Aha.

- "Don't waste your time here drinking beer and chasing the girls."

- Why not?

- Well, he said, "Take extension courses from the University of Maryland," which were taught on post.

- Yeah.

- So I took up his advice, and I would managed to accumulate a year's credit, college credit in chemistry, history, psychology, and a lot of other pseudo useless courses.

- Good night.

- What?

- That's a lot.

- Yeah.

So that was, I think, really a turning point.

When I was discharged, I had intended to come back to Edgewood as a civilian.

However, at the time I was discharged, there weren't any positions open.

So I thought, "Well, my family's back home.

I don't have any money.

I don't have a car.

I don't have a place to live.

That's not an option."

So I learned that there was a big ag lab in Peoria.

- Yeah.

- I had no idea it was there.

So I went over and interviewed there, and they wanted to hire me and- - To do what?

- What?

- [Rob Sharkey] To do what?

- Work in a lab.

- Oh, to be a scientist.

- Yeah, well, a technician, you know, instead of doing a lot of thinking, you do a lot of work.

(laughs) - Okay.

- But anyway, I was fortunate enough to be put in a group, composed of a lot of senior scientists, you know?

Age 50 and above, and- - People that knew what they were doing.

- Oh, yeah, yeah, well mostly- - And here you were, this young kid.

- Yeah, I was 21, and I looked at those guys and I thought, "Man, those guys are ancient."

- [Rob Sharkey] Yeah.

- Well, 50 doesn't seem so ancient anymore.

- (laughs) No.

- But at any rate, you know, they didn't care if I had a PhD or a MS or a BS, or any advanced degree.

- Because, what'd you have?

You had a associates?

- No.

- Not even that?

- Not even that.

- Okay.

- So they gave me a really a lot of challenging assignments, which helped my career.

And so in about seven or eight years, I had topped out as a technician.

I couldn't go any higher.

And my boss told me, "Look, if you want to advance further, you need more education."

Well, at the time, I was married, had two little kids.

So I decided to enroll in our junior college there, in East Peoria, ICC.

- Oh yeah.

Harvard on the hill.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

(chuckles) - So I finished my degree and, I met the minimum requirements for a professional chemist.

- [Rob Sharkey] Okay.

- I fought for two years to be reclassified, and finally it came true, and- - Well, you've been doing it though, right?

- Well, yeah.

- But you just, - Well- - This was so you could move up in your career.

Even though you had the on-job experience, you needed something.

- Well, you see, one of the requirements to do that was not only education, but one year's experience as a chemist.

Well, I didn't have one year's experience as a chemist.

So to make a long story short, from 1975 to 1981, I was promoted three times.

- Okay.

- Then my career hit a brick wall.

- [Rob Sharkey] Why?

- Not a PhD.

- So it was your lack of- - Yeah, lack of an advanced degree.

- Education, okay.

- Yeah.

- Did that annoy you?

- What?

- Did that tick you off?

- Yes.

(Rob laughs) - I knew the answer to that before I asked the question.

- Well, you just made me more determined that I was going to beat the system.

I got a chance to take a supervisory role, assume more responsibility.

- Okay.

- And I was finally promoted after sitting 17 years in grade.

Then- - Where were you working then?

- Pardon?

- Where were you working then?

- At USDA where I started.

- At the USDA, okay.

- Yeah, where I started.

Then as time went on, some good things happened to me.

I got some awards and my career picked up, and it was time to be reevaluated for another promotion.

So, okay, I'll give it a shot.

Again, failure.

- Well, you gotta bribe people.

We're in Illinois, you're working for the government.

- You gotta be persistent.

- Well that too, if you wanna do it the hard way.

- You're not defeated until you quit.

(Rob laughs) So I appealed the decision and was, the panel was overwritten, and I finally got my promotion.

- You did that with an associates.

So that was always the problem.

- Yeah.

- Okay.

- Yeah.

- So this board or this panel finally saw your worth in what you were and not just your diploma, and you got the promotion.

- Got my promotion.

- Okay.

That had to feel good.

- It did.

You know, I shouldn't say this, I've gotten a lot of recognition, but the satisfaction of beating these jackals, running the lab, I- - Well, it would annoy me.

It would annoy me that, and I'm gonna speak for you 'cause you're humble.

If I was better at the job that I was not getting promoted because of some document, a piece of paper saying that I got whatever degree.

Yeah.

(Rob laughs) - Well, yeah, I think we all react differently to adversity.

- Okay, yeah, I think you and I do.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- I cuss more than you do.

- There's two plans, you either give up- - Yeah.

- Or it's full speed ahead, armor out in front, infantry behind.

(Rob laughs) - You have been acknowledged though.

Just recently, the American Soybean Association gave you the Pinnacle Award.

- Yes.

- That's like the top dog.

- The highest award given by the Association.

And, well, it's meant to honor a lifetime of achievement, benefiting the soybean industry.

So I was really kind of surprised, but- - That's a big award.

I know what that award means, coming from that organization.

- Yeah.

- So, but that's not the only one.

You've had a lot of recognition for your accomplishments and what you've given back to not only just agriculture, but what you've given back to the world.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- I know this stuff is extremely important to you, but talking to you, I think what's more important to you is your faith.

- Well, (clears throat) I grew up in a Christian home, stable, two parent family.

Dad was a breadwinner, Mom ran the house.

We attended a rather liberal church.

I won't mention which one, but salvation depended on church membership, baptism- - Uh huh.

- And the sacraments.

Once you had all those bases covered, you were good to go.

- Well that sounds nice.

- What?

- That sounds nice, just 20 bucks in the basket every week, and you're- - Well, you know- - (whistles) Straight up.

- We didn't have to pay penances like they did during the dark ages, but some of 'em, you know, I kind of abandoned organized religion.

Mainly because I didn't see a lot of fruit.

- Yeah.

- You know what I mean?

- [Rob Sharkey] Yep.

- I didn't hear the gospel 'til I was 40 years old.

My wife and I, well, it's long story.

When I proposed to her, she said, "Well, under two conditions, number one, you stay out of the beer halls, and number two, you attend church with me."

I said, "Okay, I can do that."

- [Rob Sharkey] You're just trying to seal the deal.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- I gotcha.

- Yeah.

(Rob chuckles) Yeah, they're quite adept at setting the hook.

(pair laughs) I'm kidding.

So, sitting under a rather ultra conservative, fire and brimstone preacher, I finally came to salvation and was the best decision I ever made.

- Mmhmm.

You just don't talk the talk, you guys are living the life of... How many kids?

- Well, we have four.

- Okay, tell me about that.

- Two boys, two girls.

- Yep.

- Seven grandkids.

So, both my wife and I have always believed that child ministry is extremely important, because if children aren't nurtured in the admonition of Christ, the world will get them eventually, you know, they'll be into drugs and drinking and all sorts of... - Tom Foolery.

- What?

- All sorts of Tom Foolery.

- Yeah.

- Yeah.

- Oh yeah.

Yeah, well I did for 40 years.

I know.

(Rob laughing) But we have taken a number of mission trips together.

My wife made two trips to Mongolia to teach English.

- Mongolia?

- Yeah.

- Oof.

- Yeah, we had friends on the mission field there.

So they asked her if she would not come over and teach English.

- You were also foster parents, right?

- Yeah, yeah.

My wife was trained as a music teacher and taught for one year and then took a job with a music company here in Peoria.

She worked there, I don't know, 10, 12 years, and decided that God had called her into full-time ministry.

So she quit her job and went to Camp Good News.

I don't know if you've ever heard of it.

It's a Christian camp, located north of Washington.

- Okay.

- But we decided that we would do foster parenting.

So, we did that, oh gosh, for, I don't know, a long time.

We had, at one, over the long haul, we had probably 20 different kids.

- I always thought that would be hard 'cause you'd get attached and then they gotta leave.

- Hard.

These kids come from dysfunctional families.

Many of them have been abused physically, sexually, emotionally.

- Mmhmm.

- They don't bond well with people because every adult in their life has failed them.

And it's pretty tough.

- Yeah.

But, you know- - But it's worth it?

- They put the wrong people in foster homes.

They would put the parents in foster homes.

Really, it's amazing.

- Yeah, I'm not disagreeing with ya, yeah.

- Yeah, yeah.

But we ended up adopting two of the children.

- But you guys fought through it.

- What?

- But you guys fought through it?

- We did.

- Yeah.

- I've been to enough dissolution hearings to make me want to walk up and punch the judge out, but- - [Rob Sharkey] But that would be wrong.

- Yes.

(Rob laughs) So anyway, we took a couple mission trips to California.

My wife took three of our foster kids to Mexico.

- Oh, wow.

Like I said, you guys aren't just talking the talk, you're walking the walk- - Well, it's... - [Rob Sharkey] Just say yes.

You're too humble.

- What?

- [Rob Sharkey] You're too humble, just say yes.

- Well, I guess if you've done it, it is not bragging, but- (chuckles) - Well Gary, if people wanna find you on TikTok, what's your handle?

- What's my what?

TikTok?

(Rob laughs) - Yeah.

What's your handle on TikTok?

(laughs) Gary, we're running out of time.

(laughs) - I wonder why.

(Rob continues laughing) - Gary, I wanna thank you for coming on the show.

I really do.

- Well, I wanna thank you for giving me a venue to kind of vent my schpeel.

- I think you're gonna have your own show now.

- No, nobody cares anymore.

- Oh, I think you- - Well, that's part of the problem.

- I think more people would listen to you than you realize.

- I don't know.

I don't know.

(Rob laughs) - Well, Gary, I wanna thank you for all the work you've done for not just agriculture, but the work you've done to help the world in all the things.

I mean, you've done a lot of good, you've solved a lot of problems.

You've gotten some awards, but honestly, probably not enough for your contributions.

Yeah, this isn't your opinion, this is me talking.

Yeah, you don't get to disagree with this.

- No.

(Rob laughs) - I know to win that Pinnacle Award from the soybean says a lot about you, because that's not just work, that looks at a person's character, that too.

So, yeah, I definitely want to thank you for all the things that you've... Are you uncomfortable now?

- No.

- Okay.

- No.

- Because your wife says you don't like to take compliments.

And you have to ride home with her.

(pair chuckles) - You know, I...

I've never forgotten who I am and where I came from.

- Mmhmm.

I don't know if that's advice or not, but that's some of the best things you could say.

People do kind of get wrapped up in things and you've had a lot of adversities in that.

With the silly thing over your diploma and your degree, the way that you overcame that, the way you fought through that, I think a lot of people can take lessons in that.

- If nothing else, it inspires someone to crawl out of poverty in their current situation.

Wife and I have done evangelism in one of the inner cities, schools here in Peoria.

And those kids, most of them are extremely bright.

They're not stupid like the sociologists have been telling us for generations, but they're trapped in poverty and are convinced that there's no future for them, you know.

That's not true.

If young people would apply themselves in school, acquire some education, work hard, play by the rules, as unfair as they may be, they can succeed.

And I recall we had a very bright young man in our school, and I asked him, I said, "What would you like to be when you grow up?"

He said, "Well, I'd love to be a doctor, but I can't."

I said, "What do you mean you can't?

You can do anything you want to do."

I don't think it registered, but you know, that's what we're facing is people are frightened, they're unsure of the future.

Well, we all are.

(laughs) Nobody knows what's gonna happen tomorrow or within the next 15 minutes, so- - I don't know what's gonna happen with the rest of this interview.

- Probably not, but you know.

(Rob laughs) - Well, you never know, I mean, you tell the kid that he can be whatever he wanted to.

You know, you've gotta plant the seeds.

Even if you're not there to see it grow.

- I don't know.

I hold up a couple recent examples of how minorities can achieve things.

- [Rob Sharkey] Yeah.

- I think Ben Carson is one of the most outstanding men I have ever seen.

- Mmhmm.

Well, Gary, again, I wanna thank you for everything.

- Oh, thank you.

- Really do appreciate it.

Really appreciate you coming here.

- What?

- I really appreciate you coming here.

- Well, I appreciate your invitation to come and- - All right- - I hope I haven't said anything that was out of line, but- - Oh, believe me, we've done a lot of things that would get us kicked off air.

Yeah, and we'll just add this to the list.

(laughs) - Do you ever interview with Willie York?

- I gotta go, man, they're gonna cut me off.

(laughs) Gary, thank you very much.

Everybody else, we'll catch you next week.

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