(upbeat music) - Will you consider this?

You grew up and it was tough, and you maybe even made it tougher on yourself, and Jonathon Romain is here to testify that he was exactly that person who needed to change some things.

And now you're helping people to change that narrative.

- That's certainly what we're trying to do.

- Okay, so first, for people who maybe don't know your story in a nutshell give it to us.

You grew up in the Chicago area.

- Grew up on the West Side of Chicago.

Was involved with just about everything you can imagine that goes on in inner cities, and was in and outta jail from a very young age.

- [Christine] And you were in a gang.

- Was in a gang.

And it's weird because I never felt like I was in a gang.

- [Christine] Hmm.

- But because of the neighborhood that I grew up in, you were just by default a part of it, your family were members.

- [Christine] That was your tribe.

- Yeah, you know?

And so, you know, without really ascribing to what people would think a gang is, I was in a gang, if that makes sense.

- [Christine] Okay, all right.

- But I never felt like a gang banger, or I never felt like a real gang member.

I just felt like these were my people, but yeah.

So I grew up in that environment.

And living in certain areas in America, things are almost upside down.

What should be right is wrong, and what should be wrong is right.

- [Christine] Uh-hmm, and how did that happen?

- That's the $100 trillion question.

You know what I'm saying?

It's, I'm sure, layered with one thing after another, after another, after another.

I mean, when you think you found where it started.

- [Christine] And what that answer is.

- Right, it's something that started that.

- Right, exactly.

- That started that, that started that.

And so we're layered with complexities in the community.

And so I don't worry, not that I don't worry.

I certainly do take into consideration some of the elements that helped to lead up to that from my limited knowledge, but more importantly, I try to figure out what is the solution.

You know what I'm saying?

We can opine all day long about how we got here.

Now let's try to figure out how we get out of here.

- Right, so before we get into that in detail, then you did some time in prison as well.

- [Jonathon] Right, right.

- You came down to Peoria, Illinois, and went to college.

- [Jonathon] Yeah.

- So that was fortunate.

- [Jonathon] Yes.

- How did that happen?

Oh, first you went to junior college.

- Yeah, so I never took school serious.

And it wasn't until I was getting ready to graduate, and the reality of trying to figure out what to do with my life, like, slapped me in the face.

And I knew that I did not want to be stuck in the rut that I saw all around me.

And I figured the best way to attack that is by trying to go to school, but I never took school seriously.

And, you know, I finished high school at the bottom 10% of my high school class.

Never took an ACT or an SAT.

College was never on my mind.

And just literally at the last minute I was like, "Ah, maybe I'll go to school."

And I talked to my counselor.

She really kind of, I wouldn't say she discouraged me, but she definitely didn't encourage me.

- [Christine] Okay.

- And it didn't seem as feasible.

- [Christine] Somewhere in between, yeah.

- Yeah, it didn't seem as feasible when I left that meeting with her, so.

I went and took the test to go to the Marine Corps because I was just trying to get outta Dodge.

Passed the test.

And literally two weeks before I was going to enlist, a friend of mine told me that in an inadvertent conversation, had nothing to do- - With anything.

- She didn't even know I was thinking about school, right?

- Uh-hmm.

- But she was just saying that, you know, you could go to a junior college, and no matter how well you did in school, as long as you just had a college, I mean, high school diploma, or its equivalency.

And that was my aha moment.

- [Christine] Um-hmm.

- So I shot over to Triton, which is outside of Chicago, registered for school, and did well enough to where Bradley accepted me the following year.

And for me, that was like, probably the biggest moment of my life is being accepted to a university like Bradley coming from where I came from, because nobody, when I told him I did that, believed it.

- I bet.

- [Jonathon] Nobody thought it was, you know.

- It was impossible.

- [Jonathon] I mean, this is a kid that was in and outta jail.

- Right.

- And, you know, in a gang, and you know, it was just, it was so inconceivable for everybody that knew me, but here I was in Peoria at Bradley.

And what I had successfully done, I removed myself from that environment.

- [Christine] Right.

- But that environment was still in me.

- [Christine] Came with you, yeah.

- And so I was still doing everything that I was doing on the West Side of Chicago that was landing me in and outta jail.

- All right.

So you can take the boy out of Chicago, but you can't take the Chicago outta him.

- [Jonathon] Right, absolutely.

- Yeah, yeah.

- And so, you know, at the end of my junior year, I was actually arrested for selling narcotics.

And I bonded out, fought the case for the senior year, and two weeks before I was supposed to graduate, I was convicted.

The judge let me bond out for sentencing to graduate.

And then two weeks after I graduated, I turned myself in, and I was given 15 years in prison.

And for me, I looked at it not as a devastating moment in my life because I was smart enough to realize that the things that I was doing could ultimately lead me there.

I was hopeful that it wouldn't, but, you know, you roll the dice, and you sometimes crap out, and so.

- [Christine] But it was your lesson.

- It was a lesson, but I also determined myself to come out of prison better than when I went in.

- Okay.

- And so, from the very beginning, I was just looking for opportunities to turn that 15 year prison sentence into an asset and not a liability.

- [Christine] Okay.

- And as long as I came out of there, stronger, smarter, more capable, then it wouldn't have all been for naught.

- [Christine] Right.

- And that's what I did.

And it just so happened I stumbled into my first love, which was art.

I never thought I was good enough to be an artist.

- So how did that exposure come to you in prison?

- Well, so I just walked by a guy's cell and he was drawing, and I knew I loved to draw, so I found out how I could get my own equipment, and I started drawing, but I still wasn't taking art seriously, but after about a year of drawing, and, you know, this is like an accelerated, intense process because you have absolutely nothing but time and razor-like focus.

And if you do anything with that kind of concentrated effort you're bound to, you know, get some good results.

- [Christine] Exactly.

- And so my drawings became really, really remarkable to even my worst critic who was me.

- [Christine] Oh, well, that's good.

- And then as fate would have it, a guy from the South Side of Chicago came to this prison.

He'd been in and outta prison most of his life because he had a heroin addiction, but he was an incredible sign painter, and, also, an incredible fine artist.

He came into that art room that we all shared, the inmates, and he was knocking out these beautiful oil paintings in a day, when everybody else who was pretending to paint, I will call it, were taking two and three months to do something that looked one fraction of what he was doing.

- [Christine] Yes.

- And I was just, like, in awe, but he looked at my drawings and he was like, "Oh, man, you can do this."

And he just kept encouraging me, encouraging me, and I just kept watching him.

And, you know, maybe about a month after that, I ordered my first set of oil paints and started painting.

And for about a week I kinda shadowed him, but then he ended up going to segregation because he got caught with some contraband, but when he came out, he didn't even recognize my oil paintings.

- [Christine] Is that right?

- Yeah, because he thought somebody new had came to the institution when he saw 'em because that's how fast I had actually developed that skill.

- [Christine] Wow.

- And this is the craziest thing.

While I was at Bradley, I took a painting class, and guess what?

That is the only F on my transcript.

- [Christine] (laughs) Well.

- Isn't that crazy?

- Funny how life turns around.

- Right.

- So now back to, we know that narrative, so you got out, and you managed to do something with your life through your art, and you know what the narrative has been.

And again, as you said, we don't really know how we got there because it just snowballed.

- [Jonathon] Right.

- This led to this, led to this, led to this, led to that.

So you have a program.

You have a presentation that you're making to change the narrative for kids who grew up like you.

- Right, so, we have an afterschool program where we took an old school building, and converted it into a community art center.

- [Christine] Right, at ART Inc. - At ART Inc. - [Christine] And that's on Northeast Jefferson, yes.

- And, you know, we service between a hundred and 150 kids every day, but one of the grants that we're operating off of, we actually titled it, "Change That Narrative."

And this whole thing came into existence as the result of a meeting that I had monthly with a group of community leaders and the mayor.

- [Christine] Okay.

- Mayor Rita Ali.

And she just charged us with trying to come up with solutions to curtail some of the challenges we face in the inner city.

And so I had always in the back of my mind thought about how the media has had an overwhelming role in shaping the narrative of the way people think, and the way people act in many situations.

- Right.

- And I said, you know, I've never seen that awesome tool used.

- In the right way.

- Well, I'm not gonna say that.

I'm not gonna say that because it has been used in the right way in many cases.

- In some instances, yes.

- But it hasn't been used to attack some of the challenges that African Americans, and brown, BIPOC communities.

- [Christine] People of color, right.

- Deal with, and I actually read a book a while ago, it was about a guy who had a marketing company.

It's slipping my mind right now, but in Chicago, one of the biggest Black advertising firms in the nation.

He wrote a book and it actually talked about if you put a monetary value on the negative media that African Americans have had to- - [Christine] Are exposed to.

- Have been exposed to over the years, it would be billions and billions of dollars.

So I'm saying, let's use this technology to- - [Christine] Change that narrative.

- Change that narrative.

- [Christine] Right.

- And it's like introduce the community to an alternative way of thinking about some of the things that we take for granted.

For example, the whole concept of snitches get stitches.

- [Christine] Right.

- Right, that's like an overwhelming, prevailing point of view in the community.

And everybody adheres to it.

We teach our kids not to be tattletales, and all of these different things, but if you look in the community that has signs up that says, you know, neighborhood watch signs.

- [Christine] Right.

- You know, we will call the police, and all of these things, those are the safest neighborhoods in our communities.

Right?

Because those people are taking an active stand.

- [Christine] In caring for each other.

- 100%.

- Yes.

- And we have somehow distorted perhaps where the real, the real reasoning behind that concept came from because, you know, the whole idea of the police department came by way of- - [Christine] Getting information.

- Well, no, no, no, no, no.

I'm talking about right after slavery.

- Oh, after slavery, okay, okay, all right.

- Right after slavery, the police departments began by police patrols by patrols.

And they were getting these Blacks, and basically turning them back into a pseudo form of slavery through if you do something wrong, then you have to serve time and working in the fields because, obviously, a lot of plantation owners were short of workers, right?

- [Christine] Of workers, right.

- And so this was how it started, and so quite naturally, the Black community was resistant of that.

- [Christine] To any kind of information.

- Absolutely, and that just evolved over time, but now it has turned into something a lot more pernicious, and more destructive to the community itself, because the worst elements in our community are allowed to prosper and to grow based off of what eventually started as an altruism for the community.

And now it's like, you know, you feel worse by telling on someone than that person who did the crime feels about the crime that they did.

- [Christine] Okay, interesting.

- You see what I'm saying?

- [Christine] Yes.

- And so we have to start challenging that, and understanding that sometimes if you tell on a person that's destroying the community, you're doing the community the favor.

- [Christine] Exactly.

- And if you don't tell on them, you might as well be doing the same thing that that person is doing.

- [Christine] Or worse.

- Or worse, so I was silenced, and I was, you know, I was, obviously, a victim of this way of thinking growing up on the West Side of Chicago being a gang member, a drug dealer, a thief, everything you can imagine.

And I fed into that too, right?

But as I became wiser, as I got more mature, and I started to understand that we need to protect our community.

We need to stand up for those in our community that can't stand up for themselves, and that's our children.

- [Christine] Exactly.

- That's our mothers, our sisters.

We need to be in the front row as a line of defense for those people and those things that we hold so near and dear to our heart.

And we can't allow these things that a lot of us don't even know where it came from to dictate and determine how we're going to respond.

- [Christine] You need to step up.

- You gotta step up.

And it's almost a revolutionary concept now.

- [Christine] Right.

- Because so many people are so opposed to it.

- Well, so what are you doing in order to change the narrative?

How are you reaching kids?

- So what we're doing is through our grant that we have, is we're talking about these concepts, and we're using all of the different forms of art to actually help change that narrative and shape these young people's minds and teach them that there is a different way of thinking that is more productive and that is more altruistic than the way that we have been taught.

Even, for example, the whole notion of being a gangster.

- Right.

- You know, that's so prevalent among so many of our young people.

- [Christine] Right, and they think it's important.

- They think it's important.

- [Christine] Yeah.

- You know, we feign intelligence to look- - [Christine] Powerful and in control.

- Absolutely.

And so we just have to dispel those myths and to show how if you start looking at life different, the results are going to be more desirable.

And I use my life as an example.

- [Christine] As an example, a glaring example.

- Absolutely.

And so when I was inundated with all of these negative thoughts and concepts, I was miserable.

I'm having to look over my shoulders.

- At every instant, yes.

- I'm snatched off the streets, right at probably the most proudest moment of my life, graduating from college, something that I thought I would never do, and thrown into a prison, and had to spend seven and a half of a 15 year prison sentence there.

While in there, had to deal with and endure the challenges of being in prison - And the gangs in prison.

- The gangs, I mean, not even just in prison, but on the streets, you know, all of the things that we have to deal with by trying to adhere to these thoughts and these concepts that are so, so detrimental to us, our community, our family.

And then when I let those things go, and I started looking at things from a different perspective and changing that narrative, now, you know, I'm an accomplished artist.

I sell my art all over the country.

I get good money for my art.

I bought the old school.

I renovated it, turned it into a community art center.

We have 15 full-time staff, 50 part-time staff.

The energy that I put into the universe, it comes back to me.

- Sevenfold.

- Tenfold.

- Tenfold, yeah, all right.

- You know what I'm saying?

But the same energy I put in when I was a young man, it came back tenfold, too.

- Um-hmm, um-hmm.

- [Jonathon] It came back tenfold.

- Well, so do you really feel that you are reaching the kids?

Because you're a living example, because you're a person of color, and because you have this not so good background that, but with karma you changed it around and here you are.

- Well, you know, I think that because of my background, young people that adhere to that type of lifestyle are more receptive to listen to me, but, you know, I'm not unmindful of the fact that it's very difficult to think, well, it's not.

It's probably naive to think that one person- - [Christine] Can make that much of a difference.

- You can make that much of a difference with some people, but to make enough of a difference in- - Numbers.

- Numbers, that's a different ball game, but I do think if we start approaching this problem from this angle, and it's something that can swell nationally, I definitely think it can make a difference because I do see the difference that we're making on an individual level.

- [Christine] So grassroots.

- Absolutely.

I see how some of the young people that come into our program after being with us for a year, a year and a half, start to look at things differently, start to act in a different way.

And so I know it is effective, but it's a lot of work.

- Right.

- You know what I'm saying?

It's, like, a lot of work.

- Aha moments, they're tough to get to.

- [Jonathon] 100%, yeah.

- But you have this book now, so tell me about the book.

It's called "Change That Narrative."

- Yeah, so the book was born from this grant that we're working out of.

And so it was, like I said, we're using the different genres of art to send that message of changing that narrative.

And the book is actually a collaboration with over 50 artists from across the country who have outstanding art careers already.

These are artists that I've shown with, that I've met through my 25 year career as a full-time artist.

And they were gracious enough to contribute art that spoke to this whole concept of change that narrative.

And so now we're taking this book, there you go, and the book and the art from the book.

And we're doing exhibitions all over.

We're actually on our fourth exhibition, which now is actually in Washington, D.C. the suburbs of Washington, D.C.

I actually fly there in a couple of weeks.

We already took the art to a facility that's called the Sebrof-Forbes Cultural Arts Center.

And it's in the suburb of Washington, D.C. And we'll have the art there for about a month, and then we're gonna come back.

We're working on some things of taking the book and the collection of art to the state capitol.

And we're just, you know, on a grassroots level.

- [Christine] Let it snowball from there.

- Absolutely, yeah.

- Awesome.

So who picked out, did you pick out all of the works, or you let the artists pick them out?

- Well, I picked out the artists and asked them to give me something that either they wanted to create, or they had already created that would speak to change that narrative.

And like, for example, one of the artists, Paul Goodnight, who's a phenomenally incredible artist, and a very accomplished artist as well.

When I told him about it, he was so excited because it was something that he already was thinking about doing in some capacity.

And he had already had these pieces that spoke to that.

Like, he had one piece that's in the book.

It's called "K.K.K."

- [Christine] Oh.

- "Kids Killing Kids."

- Interesting.

- [Jonathon] Right.

- Interesting take on that.

- And so a lot of the artists, you know, it didn't take a lot of movement to get them to be a part of it, because a lot of them feel in some way or another, the same way that I feel that we as creative people, we have to take our talents and try to do whatever we can to leverage those talents to make a difference in our community.

- [Christine] In a creative way.

- In a creative way.

- And you feel that the kids are already responding?

- Oh, I absolutely do.

I, mean, you know, when just the art center in general, just ART Inc. in general, you know, when we- - [Christine] 150 kids a day, - Between a hundred, 150 kids daily, but when we're doing things with them, you know, we have what we call Fun Friday.

Every day, you know, it's like a party at ART Inc. And you see these kids laughing and running, and they're safe.

They're in a creative space.

- And that's a big problem.

It's that afterschool time that- - From 3:00 to 6:00.

- Yeah.

- That's one of the most crucial periods of the day for our young people.

And to have them in a safe, fun, creative space, to see them laughing and playing and being kids, that by itself is more rewarding than anything I've ever done in my life.

- That's awesome.

Inspirational, for sure.

So the book is, they can get it at the ART Inc. website.

- You know, actually, www.changethatnarrative.org, or you can get it portaled through the website for ART Inc. as well, and that's www.artincpeoria.org.

- All right.

Where else will you go with this then?

You've been a couple of places.

Do you have a lot of interest already for people who really need to make a change?

- So we have four locations that we've already done, and I'm trying to work with an organization.

I'm gonna keep that under my hat.

- [Christine] Okay.

- I don't wanna bring that up because I don't wanna jinx it.

- [Christine] 'Til the deal's done.

- Right, but I have a national organization that I am flirting with to maybe get them to do a national tour of the book, so.

- And will you go on all of those, or some of the other artists will participate?

- Well, we offer an invitation to the artists to participate in anyone that they want.

Like, when we had the first show here in Peoria, over 15 of those artists flew in from all over the country for our first show.

The other locations were smaller locations, so I didn't ask that of them to do, but in D.C. we'll have some more there.

In fact, several of the artists in the book live in the D.C. area.

So as we go, you know, we'll just figure out what makes the most sense with every stop.

- [Christine] Keep on keeping on.

- Yeah.

- Well, thank you.

- Thank you, it was my pleasure.

- It's so nice that you are helping the next generations, plural.

- Yeah, and let me tell you this on the tail end of that.

Nikki and I, my wife, we started this thinking that that's what we were gonna be doing, but when we walk into that building every single day, it's what those kids give us.

- [Christine] That's awesome.

- Yeah.

- Great, well, thanks.

- Thank you.

- Thanks so much, Jonathon for being here.

Hope you enjoyed listening to his fascinating story and his vision.

You gotta keep that in perspective.

Keep changing things, change that narrative.

- Thank you.

- Thanks for being here, be well.

(upbeat music)