(joyful music) - Will you consider this?

You don't have much of a wild background, but it's wild enough to land you a job to be the big boss at the Peoria Zoo.

And Max Lakes is that very person.

And I met you recently, and you have a storied past in that you get to work with all the animals and all their caregivers.

So, welcome.

- Thank you, Chris.

- Welcome to Peoria.

Only been here since July.

- Yes ma'am.

- Okay.

And then, so tell me, you're originally from the Midwest?

- I am, so I was born in Lexington, Kentucky, spent most of my younger years in Central Kentucky and a few years in Cincinnati, where my dad's family is from.

My extended family call us the nomads because my mom and I added it up one time, and we'd moved 24 times by the time I was 16 years old, so.

- [Christine] 24 times?

- Yes.

- So you had to readjust to all those schools and everything too?

- Yes.

There were many schools that I was at only three or four months, and then we just moved.

So you learn not to make friends, which is where some of the connections with the animals came in.

- Okay, yeah, that's interesting.

I wanna hear about that.

So now in a brief conversation we had, because of all your moves and everything, school just was not for you.

- Well, ironically, I loved it.

I was actually good at it.

My dad was very adamant that I needed to get an education.

So he was a little bit older than my mom.

He was born in 1929, and he always told me, he said, "Now a college education for you is gonna be what a high school education was for my generation."

And the problem was is that I come from a very low socioeconomic background, and before he died, there were actually schools that told me I was from the wrong side of the track.

I didn't need to worry about going to college.

I needed to find a trade and go into that.

And that's not what I wanted to do.

- [Christine] Right.

- So when he passed, he passed, unfortunately, when I was young, 15.

That is really when I was like, "Nope, I'm done with school, can't fight him," 'cause he was that- - [Christine] He was the studying force- - He was, and he would literally go to... At first, they wouldn't put me into the advanced placement classes.

And so he went and fought for me and told 'em, he's like, you know, "His grades are there.

Why not?"

- Right.

- And they weren't gonna argue with him.

- Right, okay, well, that's good.

That's good to have somebody in your back pocket like that fighting for you.

Well, so you kind of then struck out on your own at the age of 15, and where did you go from there?

- Well, I went and lived with a brother in Columbus, Ohio for a little bit.

And after that, I decided, "You know what?

I truly have to set out on my own."

So I left and went with another brother in San Diego, California and lived with him for about eight or nine months.

And then he decided to move to Chicago, and I decided I wasn't, so I stayed there in Southern California.

- Okay, all right.

Well, then, where did you... Have you always loved animals along the way?

Were you raised with...

Even though you were from the other side of the tracks, did you have pets and things like that?

- We didn't have a whole lot of pets.

We moved so much.

And as much as my dad taught me to fight for myself, always believe in myself, never believe what in essence society was telling me, you know, he imparted with me the gift of being able to dream.

Unfortunately, he didn't impart me with the gift of work.

That came from my mother.

- Okay.

- And so- - [Christine] Well, it's good combination though.

- It is.

It is.

(Christine chuckles) And both of them impacted my life in amazing ways.

So how that connects back to the animals is we did spend a lot of time in Cincinnati.

So Cincinnati Zoo is- - [Christine] It's a good zoo.

- It is, very good zoo.

And it is actually in one of the worst or poorest neighborhoods in the city of Cincinnati.

And we lived in the city right next to it called St. Bernard.

So we didn't go as a family much 'cause we couldn't afford to go to the zoo as a family.

It was just too expensive.

But I had some extended family who would take me there often 'cause they knew of my love for animals, and that's where I fell in love with animals.

And I knew from a very young age that's what I wanted to do.

I just didn't know how to get there.

- Yeah, so then, how did it happen?

How did it come about?

♪ Can you talk to the animals ♪ (Christine and Max laugh) - It was a very circuitous route.

So, my father got ill when I was about 12 or 13, and my mom forged the first papers for me to get my job in a restaurant at 13 so I could start helping pay rent and pay the bills.

And I tell that part of the story because what it taught me and what mom's work ethic taught me is that if I was willing to go into a restaurant and work and work hard, I would always have a job, and I could always eat.

So, started that, and that didn't leave a whole lot of time for school.

And when I got to California, so I dropped out of high school at ninth grade.

That was my last full year of high school.

- [Christine] Okay.

- And got to California.

I was working road construction at the time, and I remember- - [Christine] And how old were you then?

Maybe 18?

- 19.

- Okay.

- I was 19 when I started road construction.

And when I got to California, I was right at 17, 18.

And it's funny, in my mind, I still think about the guys on the road construction team as the old guys, and they're probably a few years younger than I am now.

- Right.

(both laughs) - And we were talking, and long story short, they were like, "Look, you've always wanted to go to college."

We were building a bike path at the bottom of Palomar Community College.

And they said, "When you get off work today, we want you to go up there, and we want you to enroll."

And so I did and started out as a biology/chemistry double major.

Couldn't do work, road construction, and go to school.

- Go to school.

- So I got a job at, it was called Price Club, which is now Costco, so Costco bought them out, and wound up in food service.

So, became the food service manager there.

College was expensive, I found out, and so it became a struggle to balance that.

- As well, right.

- Pay the bills and go to school.

So, long story short, spent a few years... Well, I guess I spent seven or eight years out in California and then decided to come back to Kentucky after I felt that I'd gotten my feet on the ground a little bit.

- [Christine] Right.

- And came back, worked in restaurants for a little bit, was offered a job at the University of Kentucky.

I think it was a combination of offered and searched it out because I found out that UK, through their employee educational program, offered 18 credit hours a year free.

- [Christine] Oh, oh, that worked out really well.

- Yeah, so almost full time.

And if you worked at the University of Kentucky in good standing, they would also pay for your books.

Yes.

- Win-win.

Okay.

- Agreed.

- So that's how you did it.

- Well- - In a way.

- In a way.

- (laughs) Okay.

- So from there, so what happened, I started working at the University of Kentucky for... Good, bad, or indifferent, I kept getting promoted, wound up over in the Chandler Medical Center at the University of Kentucky and worked my way up into middle management.

And I was still biology/chemistry double major at the time, and then I went, "You know what?

It pays decent.

It's a secure job."

University of Kentucky had not had any layoffs in its 100-and-something year history.

So I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna switch."

So I switched to business/political science, and was gonna go that route.

The recession hit.

- Okay, that's 2008.

- Yes ma'am.

- All right.

- Taught me everything I needed to know about guarantees in life.

(Christine laughs) I came in, and my job was RIFed, so reduction in funding.

And I'd worked at University of Kentucky for almost 10 years, liked the people, didn't like the work.

It was a lot of administrative, and it wasn't my dream of working with animals.

So I had just accepted a seat at the Gatton College of Business for my MBA.

I was also finishing up my bachelor's at the time.

And I took a few weeks, and I was with my mom and- - [Christine] And what do I need to do?

- Exactly.

And every time I'd say, "Wanna go somewhere," she'd go, yeah, "Where do you wanna go?"

we'd wind up at a zoo.

And we were walking into the gates of the Cincinnati Zoo, and she goes, "Max, why don't you just do it?"

I was like, "Do what?"

And she goes, "Go for your dream.

You've always wanted to work with animals.

This is where you fell in love.

Do it."

So I said, "Fine."

- [Christine] Good for your mom.

- Oh, she's amazing.

- Of course.

(laughs) - Yes, and a pioneer in her own right.

- All right.

- So, left Cincinnati Zoo, found programs that better fit.

I'd dropped out of the MBA program or didn't take the seat.

So I didn't drop out, just didn't take the seat.

Got my master's in parks and recreation administration but focused on human dimensions of wildlife management, then got my doctorate in educational leadership and policy studies.

- Man!

And then when I was in Louisiana, I was like, "You know what?

I'm finally gonna do that business," and went back and got my MBA.

- Holy cow.

I'm out of breath just listening.

So for a high school dropout, and you have all these degrees and all this wonderful responsibility and things, so what's going on at the Peoria Zoo then?

So tell me where else you worked.

So from there, you were the executive director in Louisiana at the zoo?

- Yes.

So when I was doing my thesis for my doctorate, I was able to talk to Columbus Zoo in Columbus, Ohio into letting me do my research there 'cause I studied the impact of behind-the-scenes programming on conservation change or conservation behavior.

So after I did my research, I got a part-time job there and then went to Wichita, Kansas at Sedgwick County Zoo, had a wonderful, wonderful time.

And not long after I'd been there about a year, I was offered the job as an education curator in Garden City, Kansas at Lee Richardson Zoo.

And then that zoo promoted me to deputy director, and I spent about four years out there and then became director at Alexandria Zoo in Louisiana.

- [Christine] In Louisiana.

Did I say that right, or is it Louisiana?

- Well, I'm from Kentucky, so they always told me I said it wrong.

- Okay.

- 'Cause for them, I was a Northerner.

- Oh, (laughs) that's right.

Yeah, okay, they didn't know... Well, maybe they did know where the Mason-Dixon line was, I guess.

- They did.

For them, anything above Interstate 10 was- - Oh (laughs), and that's way down there.

- That is.

- All right.

So you're there, and you're dealing with animals, and then you get hired here in Peoria.

And what intrigued you about the Peoria Zoo?

You were glad to get back to the Midwest.

- I was.

- You didn't like the heat down in Louisiana.

- I did not.

I do not have a body style that fits well in that environment.

- [Christine] Okay.

- And it was a long way from family.

It was 16 hours from my family that's still in Kentucky and Columbus, Ohio.

And so I had been kind of looking and wanting to get back to the Midwest.

My time at my other zoos, it had a different animal collection than what I had in Louisiana.

I very much missed my rhinos and giraffes and- - [Christine] 'Cause they can't tolerate the heat, or no.

- Well, the collection down there was just smaller.

- [Christine] So that's what you call it, a collection of- - Somewhat.

- Okay.

- The animals that call us home.

Collection is easier for us.

And this came open.

You know, I did a little research.

You know, Peoria Zoo's AZA accredited, so that's the Association of Zoos and Aquariums.

There's only 251 institutions in the country that hold that standard.

- Really?

- Yes.

And I do not put it in an application that is not at an AZA zoo.

So I already knew that it had a very good standing, and the work that it does is world-class.

So it is right up there with San Diego.

There's a couple great zoos here and, you know, the ones in Chicago.

We have to meet the same standards.

So I saw the opening, and I saw the collection, and I knew some people that knew the zoo.

I was like, "You know what, I'm gonna go for it," and I did, and I'm very grateful that I did.

- So you like our collection?

- I do.

- Now, we do have a little alligator, don't we?

- [Max] Yes, the Chinese alligator.

- Yeah, but you were used to much larger crocodiles and alligators in Louisiana.

- We did have a larger collection of those.

So one of the ones I met at first was Moease.

Moease was about 15 feet long and about 700 pounds.

- [Christine] Yikes.

- Very interesting to work with, but he was very docile.

The original director there had him as, got him when he was very small and used to sit in his office and would put him on his chest and- - And pet him.

- Do his paperwork.

- Hmm.

So how do you communicate then?

You said that growing up, you didn't make very many friends with people because you were moving so much.

So what is your language with the animals?

And you don't really have hands on that much, do you, in your directorship?

- Those are two great questions.

So, interestingly, my childhood, which was poor but also very dysfunctional, imparted on me and my siblings hopefully the ability to read a room when you walk into it.

So I've always been interested in nonverbal communication.

It was just, as a child, I didn't know what to call it 'cause you better be able to sense what's going on, and we've all done that.

We've walked into a room or a meeting- - [Christine] It's like, yeah, whoo-hoo, whew.

- Yes, and been like, "Oh, it's not feeling right."

- [Christine] No, I know.

- And that transferred well to animals because they have nonverbal communication a lot, you know, and outside of their own species because if you're out in the wild, and you're a prey or a predator animal, you need to be able to sense if somebody's going to eat you or if you have some dinner around and what their motives are.

- It's one or the other.

- Yes, is this gonna harm me?

You know, fight or flight.

- [Christine] Okay.

- Which that is big in the animal world and was also big in our home.

- Oh, okay.

- Better fight or flight.

So that transferred over well.

And so at the zoo, the nice changes as director, I do try to get out and see the animals a lot.

I like to get out and talk with the keepers, see how they're interacting with the animals.

But I also like to take our guests and anybody that wants to see it or schedules a tour, I like to do those a lot of times.

So I go and spend times with the animals, and I only show up when good things are gonna happen because in my industry, we call it, we create a trust account.

And so you need to be able to have that trust account with that animal.

So when you walk into the behind-the-scenes areas with a 5,200 pound white rhino, they know that I'm coming for good things.

Nothing bad's gonna happen.

- Okay, and you've established, you've managed to establish that relationship.

So how do you establish it in the first place though?

- [Max] A lot of the same ways you do with your coworkers- - With people.

- Or your family.

It's time.

It's time and building that trust and letting them know that your intentions are good.

Like, I don't ever go into a room with an animal with the vet.

- Oh no, I know, because they come with sharp objects.

- Yes, they do.

And you build that up, and then you start the training.

So most of our animals have cues that we call it to where they will do different behaviors, and that behavior allows us to have them participate in their own medical care.

- [Christine] Okay.

- Which, that's hugely important 'cause you wanna anesthetize an animal as little as possible, and the doctor would tell you the same about you.

- Absolute.

I say the same about me.

Uh-uh, don't knock me out.

- (laughs) Yes.

- Go ahead.

- And so, you know, having a...

So right before I left, they did the radio call of who wants to do the blood draw on Harris's ear.

So Harris is our 5,200-pound white rhino, and he has cues.

He'll come up, and he'll get into his stance.

He'll give you his ear, and then you can draw blood right out of that blood vessel.

- [Christine] Because he knows that's his comfort zone- - Yes.

- In that way, okay.

- And it takes some time to build that relationship, but we do that.

It's really cool to see and experience over time.

An interesting story with that as far as communicating, over the holidays, had some family in, so I brought them with me just 'cause they were like, "What do you do?

Why do you have to go into the zoo on a holiday?"

And I was like, "We got some meds to give out."

- Yeah, I mean, they need 365, or in a leap year, 366, days of attention.

- Yes, they do.

And so to make a long story short on that one, went in, and my family even commented.

They're like, "Oh, we could tell the animals that you did not have a relationship with and the ones that you did," because the ones that I hadn't taken the time to build that relationship with was much more difficult to medicate.

- [Christine] They're a little more skittish.

- Yes, and couple of them wouldn't even come to me.

- Oh.

- 'Cause they're like, "We don't know who you are."

- [Christine] You're a stranger, stranger danger.

- Yes.

- Okay.

Fascinating.

Well, so what's new?

What's in store?

What kind of ideas do you have from the other places where you've been that might be incorporated in at the zoo?

'Cause you got those little things, those little dreams in the back of your mind.

- Well, I have a lot of thoughts, but the biggest one transfers with me from my entire life, which is that all of the things that I've accomplished and all of the places that I've been, it all took a massive community to get me there, even when I didn't realize there was community and support behind me when I was being that independent, rebellious youngster.

- [Christine] 15-year-old.

- Yes, yeah.

It sounds like you've had one.

(Christine laughs) - We all have, yeah.

We've all been, but I digress.

- And so, that plays into me because is that I wanna learn what the community wants.

What does Peoria want?

And I need to learn what does it mean to be a Peorian.

You know, I consider myself a Midwesterner, very proud of that, but I'm not from here.

So what do people such as yourself or who've lived here their entire life wanna see?

And I hear wonderful stories from the community of their memories of going when they were younger and, you know, then the opening of Africa and that amazing addition, and talking to people and asking them, "What would you like to see from the Peoria Zoo?"

and then using that to move forward with the ideas that we have.

And there's already some wonderful changes and that were started before I came on board.

So we have Butch and Darla, who are our black-handed spider monkeys.

Butch is the oldest black-handed spider monkey that we know of.

- [Christine] In the world?

- In the world.

He is 52 years old.

They normally live to be about 24 to 26 years old.

- So he's been living the good life here.

- He has, and has been here since 1973.

Now, you know, back in 1973, how much time an animal should have outside was very different, or at least the perceptions of that were very different than what they are now.

- Right, they were caged, glassed in, yeah.

- Yes, it sounds like you've been there then.

- Right.

- And over the time, it has progressed, so there's not the glass front anymore.

And then they did have those large garage doors that you could open up, and they could see outside, but they hadn't actually, or he hadn't been outside since 1973.

And one of the things that I loved seeing when I was doing my interview is that the park district and the zoo had started the process to build an outdoor habitat.

So in September of this last year, that was completed, and Butch and Darla got to go outside for the first time in a very long time.

- And how did he react?

- Well, it was amazing.

He was a little skittish at first.

Darla, who he has been with for 27, 28 years, I tease people and say that she'd been asking for a Florida home for that long.

- [Christine] Okay, there you go.

- Yes.

- Finally got it.

- And she did, and so she was the first one out.

I thought that Butch would be the first one out.

- [Christine] Like, "Get me outta here.

Freedom!"

yeah.

- Yes.

And she went out.

She looked around.

She kind of, you know, checked things out.

Of course, you know, being that size, you want to check for some predators.

And she was safe.

And she went back in, and she grabbed him and dragged him out the chute.

- [Christine] Okay.

(laughs) - And then once he got used to it, then they started doing behaviors that we want to see.

We call them species-specific behaviors.

And all that means is, are the spider monkeys doing what spider monkeys should do?

When they were inside all the time, we noticed that they weren't doing all of the behaviors that we would like- - [Christine] And what are those behaviors?

Such as?

- So for a primate like that, you wanna see a lot of grooming and a grooming of male to female and female to male, and that helps with the bonding.

That's their trust account.

- All right.

- And Darla would always groom him a lot, but he wouldn't groom her.

It took about three weeks outside, and we started noticing him groom her and out in the open.

So that was just amazing.

He likes to bathe a lot, so they'll go in.

If you're ever in there, you'll see water bowls at the bottom, and he'll get that, and he likes to do his hair.

- Yeah, I've seen him do that.

- Yes, and that self-grooming is very important.

- It's like, "Yeah, hey, look, Darla."

- Yeah, well, it's Butch that does it more.

We call Darla more the natural girl.

- Okay.

- She doesn't do that as much.

- No, but I'm just saying he's showing off for her.

- He does, yeah.

- He's like, "Hey, baby."

- Oh, we do call him suave.

- Okay.

- He's our suave guy.

And we started noticing her doing that more when she would come in, which was amazing.

- Wow, fascinating.

And we've only got a couple minutes left.

So, there's some programming, and there's picnics, and there's camps and all different kinds of things available to Peorians and all of Central Illinois to come to the Peoria Zoo.

- There is, and I want to mention one in specific that is something that hasn't been in Central Illinois yet, which is a lantern festival.

We're calling it Glow Wild.

And it's the type of lantern festival that you've seen, or people may have seen in Chicago and St. Louis, and they'll be all throughout the zoo.

And that's gonna be starting in March and run Friday, Saturday, and Sundays in March and April.

So it's gonna be absolutely wonderful, and it gives you a different view and experience of the zoo.

- When you're there after dark?

- [Max] Yes.

- And so that's what it will specifically be in the evenings?

- Yes.

And now the animals will still be out.

You know, if they're allowed access to the outside as far as temperature, they'll be out.

And we'll have some new concessions or food items available as well.

So some people may have heard of a place in town called The Chef and The Baker, and one of the former owners of that has joined our team at the zoo and is now managing our concessions.

So you can expect a- - A little bit different than popcorn and hot dogs.

- Yes.

- Okay, okay.

Well, and how many staff do you have there?

- It ranges.

So in the wintertime, we have between 40 and 45, and in the summer, we'll hit between 60 and 70.

- Well, it is a lot of fun.

It's worth going.

Howl-Zoo-Ween is fun, a little bit scary at times, I gotta say.

- And it's gonna get bigger.

- It's gonna get even bigger than that.

I don't know where you store all that stuff, but there's a lot of skeletons.

If you haven't been to Howl-Zoo-Ween, you'll see more skeletons than you've ever seen in your entire life.

Well, welcome to Peoria.

Welcome to Central Illinois, back to the Midwest.

And thanks for sharing your story.

It's pretty fascinating.

- Thank you, Chris.

- You've done a lot.

- And I look forward to doing more here in Peoria.

- All right, thanks.

Max Lakes from the Peoria Zoo.

Thank you for joining us.

Hope you enjoyed that story.

And be safe, stay warm, and stay healthy.

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