(lively music) (lively music ends) - Welcome to "A Shot of AG."

I'm your host, Rob Sharkey.

Do you own ground, or do you wanna buy ground, or are you ever just curious what ground is worth?

Well then, you need an appraiser.

How does an appraiser know how much ground is worth?

Well, we're gonna find out today.

Today, we're talking with Dan Legner from Princeton.

How you doing, Dan?

- Good.

- You are a Senior Certified Appraiser.

So you're like not just the slum appraiser; you're like the certified, but then you're the senior of the certified.

- I'm one of the senior of the certifieds, right.

- Okay, so do you mainly just do farm ground?

- Predominantly.

Probably 95% of what I do is strictly farmland.

- [Rob] Okay.

- I cover Bureau County, Putnam County, Lee County, and Whiteside County, and for Compeer Financial; and we have other appraisers throughout the north half of Illinois and then Wisconsin & Minnesota.

- Okay.

So, boy, you gotta know your stuff because the ground, an acre in Princeton, Illinois is definitely different than an acre in Minnesota.

- Right, right, and that's why most of us cover about three or four counties in Illinois.

They cover more in Wisconsin and Minnesota.

But we're fairly localized and so specialized in the farmland in those counties that we cover.

- You grew up in Princeton?

- Southeast of Princeton, about five miles.

- Southeast, okay.

- About 26, right before Interstate 180.

- [Rob] Okay.

Farm kid?

- Farm kid, right.

- [Rob] What were you raising?

- Well, in 4-H, I had Ayrshire dairy cattle.

- Oh, okay.

- Yeah.

And my dad, small farmer, 300 acres, corn and beans.

- Just the one milk cow?

- Only one I'd milk at a time.

We had probably six of 'em, but one calf at a time.

- You didn't have to wake up like at four in the morning, did you?

- No, a little bit later, but I milked the morning and night.

- What'd you do with the milk?

- Well, we drank it and we gave some away.

- Oh, raw milk, you were breaking a law?

- Pasteurized it.

- You did?

- Yes, had a little pasteurizer.

My mom would pour it in that and... - Really?

- Yeah.

- [Rob] Did it take very long?

- I don't remember what it would take.

Maybe an hour.

- Okay.

- Yeah.

- You get it up like, just not at boiling, just... - It was preset, I believe.

- You just let it go.

- Just let it go.

- And had pasteurized milk.

- Pasteurized milk.

- It's the rage, you could have been before your time having the raw milk.

You could have been like the rebel.

- Yeah, yeah, ahead of the game.

- So you grew up there.

I mean, did you ever wanna go back to the farm?

- Well, I hobby farm it now.

But after high school, I went to IVCC and then I went on to Illinois and... - U of I or ISU?

- U of I.

- Okay, and generally, people work that into the conversation within 30 seconds.

- Oh really?

Well... - Sounds like you're secure in your masculinity: "I went to U of I, not a big deal."

(both chuckle) What'd you study there?

- Ag econ, and so graduated in '87, I guess.

And then, through 4-H, I went to Ireland as a international 4-H youth exchange - Oh, cool.

- for six months after.

- [Rob] Oh heck, you lived over there.

- Lived over there, lived with a dairy family outside of Cork, and... - [Rob] Could you understand them?

- Yes, yeah.

- You could?

- Little bit of a twang, but... - If you get on TV, I have a hard time listening, figuring out what they're saying.

- Oh.

Well, you gotta focus at first.

- [Rob] That's my problem.

So what'd you learn there?

- Well, they milked about 70, 72 head of Holsteins.

They were on a quota system.

And my oldest brother, I went back here... Well, I've been back several times.

But went back last year and they're building a new large facility that'll be milking 300 and his son's coming back into the operation and he's kind of transitioning out, Richard.

But it was amazing how, and it's similar to any other business: you either gotta grow or get out.

- Yeah.

- And, you know, he's taken the growth route just because his son's coming back.

But, you know, the same thing as here, large investment.

They're spending a million pounds to put in this new circular milking parlor.

- Oh, the carousel.

- The carousel.

- Yeah, those are cool.

- Yeah.

But anyway, that was a real enjoyable experience.

And when I came back, then I went to work for a bank over in Peru, Illinois and did that for a year and a half.

And my roommate that I had in college, he was going on to graduate school and he said, "Well, why don't you come back to graduate school?

We'll go down to Oklahoma State."

- Oklahoma State?

- Yeah, Oklahoma.

- Why there?

- Well, I don't know, so I said, "We'll go down and check it out."

So he went down there, and he called me and he says, "We're not going here."

I said, "No?

Okay."

He said, "No, I sat out here," outside either the dean's office and he said he never came out, and so he said, "We're going back to Illinois."

So I went back for my master's and he was getting his PhD.

- Do you think that was true?

- I do.

- Or is it like your roommate went there and he hit on a girl and she laughed at him, and he was like, "To heck with this place, we're going back to Illinois."

- No, no, he was...

So anyway, I was home for the summer, between my first and second year getting the master's degree, and a local bank, First State Bank in Princeton at the time, they had bought another bank and one of their loan officers was going to go be the president of that one, and they needed a loan officer and asked me what I was doing.

I said, "Well, here's what I'm doing," you know, what I told you.

And so, they said, "Well, why don't you come talk to us?"

So I did.

So they hired me and I was with them about five years, and at the time I was taking an appraisal class, and so I continued to take that.

- You were a loan officer though?

- Yeah, I was a loan officer.

- You were crushing people's dreams by denying them money.

- Well, some could say that, I guess.

We were giving others opportunities.

When you're young, you're full of ambition and goals, right?

So I continued to take that appraisal class and then kind of put it on hold because I was, you know, working at the bank.

And after about five years, I left and went and worked for a local realtor and got my real estate license and started taking the appraisal classes again.

And after a year and a half of that, I opened up my own shop, and so- - Was that a little scary because, I mean, you had been working for people, the whole them, now you're gonna be your own shingle.

Ride or die is only with you.

- Well, two things.

You know, as I said, when you're young... - You don't care.

- Well, you know, risk is a word that probably you think relates to other people and maybe not yourself.

And then, at the time, my wife was working and, bless her heart, she provided the insurance.

And so there was the stability there where I could take a chance.

- Yeah.

- And so that was probably you know, one of the motivating factors to try it.

And one day, then I was in my office and one of the loan officers from, at the time, we were First Farm Credit, he stopped in and he said, "Say, we're looking to hire an appraiser.

Would you be interested?"

So I talked to 'em, and they gave me a few months to close my operation down.

- [Rob] Oh, so you were all in?

- So I went to work for them.

- Yeah, yeah.

- And that was back in '03, so it's been, what?

22 years?

- It'd be 22 years, yeah.

- Yeah, it was 22 years, March 1st.

- [Rob] Seems like just yesterday, huh?

- Just yesterday, yeah.

- Where'd you meet your wife?

- Where'd I meet my wife?

Well, you probably won't believe this, Rob.

- Are you gonna lie?

- No, not to you.

I met her... Well, you grew up outside of Princeton and, you know, Princeton's not a booming metropolis for single women or even, you know, single guys from the women's standpoint.

- I have no comment on that, Dan.

- Okay, well, it was January, the first of the year, and our church was starting a bible study.

And it was, say, Monday night, you know, six o'clock, and Monday night came and 6:15, it dawned on me that the Bible study was at 6 and I debated whether I should go or not.

And I thought, "Well, whatever," so I went, and here was this black haired young lady sitting in the class.

- [Rob] You didn't know her?

- I did not know her.

I knew of her because we went to high school together, but she was two years older than I am, so we weren't in the same class together but I knew of her.

- Like the older women?

- Yeah, yeah.

More experienced.

(Rob laughs) - Was it love at first sight?

- It was, for me, you know.

(Rob laughs) - She took a little work because she had- - She did, she had a boyfriend.

Can you believe it?

- Oh.

Did you go throw down with him?

- No.

We arm wrestled.

- Oh, did you?

- Yeah.

No.

- Well, you're a dairy kid, so... - Right, right.

No.

And it was, we met in January and got married in October.

- Oh, nice, okay.

How many years now?

- You would ask me.

No.

- [Rob] It's not a trick question, man.

- Okay.

1994, so... - I didn't ask what year it was.

(both chuckle) - October the eighth.

- Okay, all right, so around 31.

- It was a rainy Saturday.

- That's a bad omen.

It probably won't last.

- Well... (both chuckle) - Okay, so now you're working for Compeer.

- Working for Compeer.

- Now is that... Is that afford you some benefits to being... Because I imagine if you're appraiser, seems to me like you have to have just information coming in from all different sources to figure out what ground is gonna go for.

Working for Compeer, did that give you some more sources of information?

- Yes, and it gave me an assistant to do a lot of the, if you wanna say- - Grunt work.

- Grunt work, clerical type work, writing up the sales.

- [Rob] Stuff you didn't wanna do.

- Well, stuff that takes a lot of time because... You know, but values come about from prior sales of similar properties.

And so we get transfer decorations, or they were called green sheets because they're green, of all the sales of 20 acres or more say from the courthouse.

And then, we also have loan officers who, you know, if you went out and bought a farm, you come in and see the loan officer for a loan, we do the appraisal on that, we get the loan contract or purchase contract.

And so we get sales that way where, you know, as an independent you wouldn't have access to that.

And then, we go to the auctions or either somebody from the office typically goes to a public auction, we get information that way.

So that's predominantly how we collect information and then work up those sales, have a computer database that keeps all the Bureau County sales and they're broken out by Soil Productivity Index, which is the main driver of land values.

In a nutshell, that's the process.

- Does it drive you nuts when somebody says, "Well, what's farm ground going for?"

- No, not really, because, you know, that's the business I'm in, and so... - [Rob] Do you just give 'em a range because you can?

- Right.

- Okay.

- Normally, we give a range.

You know, if it's class A ground, here's the range.

- So what is farm ground going for?

- Well, in Bureau County, prime class A farm ground, anywhere, 15 to 18,000, depending on location, neighbors who want it, you know, a few other factors.

- Yeah.

We had you come out and appraise some stuff on our farm.

You're not very good at your job.

You were way too low, way too low, like half.

- All depends if you're the buyer or the seller.

Usually, I'm too low if they wanna sell or I'm too high if they wanna buy it.

- That's an extremely good point.

What's this thing?

- That is a replica of a Minneapolis-Moline Model U tractor.

- Okay, you had me at Minneapolis-Moline.

You lost me at Model U.

Was there many of those made?

- Well, I don't know the exact production, but when my dad moved up to Bureau County, 1960, he had a narrow front end, this is a wide front end, had a narrow front end U and that's what he farmed with, and my brother and I, we still have it.

- [Rob] Still run?

- It probably will.

It's been parked in the shed.

But it was an LP.

This is a gas one.

Anyway, my dad collected tractors, and he had a U and a UB and a Z, and then the G-1000 was the latest one that we had.

So anyway, partial to the prairie gold.

- Oh yeah, yeah, definitely.

Your parents were 4-H leaders, right?

- Right.

They were.

- Yeah.

They had some bratty young girl in their club: my wife.

- Yeah, I was gonna say, you know, nice young lady.

The guy she's married to, I have my doubts, but... - Throwing down.

(both chuckle) - Yeah, and I couldn't find it.

I had it at the office.

My mom passed away, well, I guess 2021.

And so going through all her stuff, I came across, she had a little picture of Emily when she was about probably nine years old.

I was gonna try and find it to bring it, but I couldn't.

But yes, Emily and her sister were in Elm Tree 4-H Club and my mom and dad were leaders.

- Gotcha.

And obviously, 4-H was important to your family; you went to Ireland with them.

- Yes, yeah.

- You ever go back to the 4-H fair in Bureau County, Princeton?

- I haven't been there in a few years.

- I wouldn't go.

- No?

- It's not what it used to be.

- Well, I still sponsor photography three, I think, trophy.

- Oh, do you?

- Yeah, which I had for probably, I don't know, - Do you judge?

- 40 years.

No, no.

- Photography three.

So if you won a ribbon or a plaque, I guess.

I don't know what they get- - Little plaque or a little trophy from K&M products.

That's who, yeah.

Well, it's probably like everything; everything's changing, huh?

- Yeah, yeah.

The former president of the Illinois Society of Professional Farm Managers and Rural Appraisers.

So you must be good at your job or at least have the respect of your peers, huh?

- Well, I'd like to think so.

- [Rob] Yeah.

- Yeah, we have a state association for farm managers and rural appraisers and, yeah, I was the president, I think 2018 maybe.

- Okay.

You still do any hunting?

- Not too much.

My dad never hunted.

Quick story.

My dad never hunted.

He had a good friend, Laverne Carruthers, from Seaton, Illinois.

When I was maybe in eighth grade, I got a shotgun for Christmas.

Laverne would would call, you know, two nights before deer hunting and say, "I'll be down at six o'clock" and, you know, like a little boy before Christmas, you didn't hardly sleep the night before.

And he'd have sandwiches and soda pop and... - Oh wow.

- He'd pick me up at six, we'd go out, sit in a timber, and about nine o'clock we'd go back to his truck and...

He passed away, oh, it's probably been 10 years ago.

My oldest son, he bow hunts, and he did quite a bit when he was young.

We go out a few times, but nobody eats deer meat other than me and how much deer meat can a guy eat?

- You only get one a year basically.

- Yeah.

Still a lot of deer meat, Rob.

So do a little bit of hunting, but not like I used to.

- Yeah.

You used to do the duck hunting too, didn't you?

- Well, Ian, again, my son, he and my nephew, Hayden, they go duck hunting.

We got a small pond, they go duck hunting.

But I'm not a duck hunter.

- Oh, that's nice.

You don't have to go like go down the river and get the boat out and all that stuff.

- Right.

- Well, if somebody is wanting to buy ground and like they kind of want the blue book, they want to know they're not being taken, I mean, do they call a person like you to get an appraisal?

Can you do kind of a version without actually going out to the farm?

- Yes, yeah.

We have an automated product that it will... We put in the Soil Productivity Index percent tillable, location, and it'll search our database and come up with five sales.

We review those sales, make sure that they're, you know, legitimate, and it'll give a value and we can provide that to a prospective buyer, you know, if they wanna... Or a lot of times, you know, if a party's buying it privately from a neighbor and they want an outside opinion, we can do that for 'em.

- Yeah.

Why is ground holding its value?

- My opinion, it's been, other than in the '80s, I guess, but it's been a safe investment and I think a lot of people are nervous as today has shown, the stock market.

It provides an income stream.

And just over time, if you look at what land sold for 50 years ago and where it's at now, it's a safe investment.

And so I think it's viewed as also people are diversifying their portfolios.

You know, maybe they've got 401k, they've got money in the stock market through those investments and they just want something else.

So that's I think the main driver.

- Okay, so when I go into Compeer and I go to buy this farm, I will simply say, "Well, talk to Dan.

He says it's a safe investment, so give me the money."

- Well... Now, you, Rob, they'll give you the money probably.

But if I were to go in, they'd say, "Well, what do you have for collateral?"

And, you know, it doesn't pencil out unless you have at least probably over half.

So they would ask me how am I gonna pay?

Well, let's use some numbers.

I wanna buy 80 acres and let's just say I get it for 15, 12 million too.

So one, I gotta have 600 grand just to be in the game, right?

And then they're gonna ask me how am I gonna pay the other 600 back, and 7% interest 42,000.

I'm gonna finance that over 20 years.

Well, I gotta come up with 30,000 just for the principal and 42 for the interest, so 70,000.

And I'm gonna rent it to you and you're probably gonna give me, what, 500 an acre, cash rent?

- Not me, but somebody.

You can get it.

- You think I could get 500?

- Ah, sure.

- That might be...

Okay, well let's just say I could get 400, and on that 80 acres, I'm getting, what, 32,000?

And I gotta come up with 72,000.

- [Rob] Well, that's your problem.

- I'm gonna have to have a side gig.

- It always goes up, so it's a no brainer really.

- If I live long enough, right?

So that's the problem.

And the disparity, you know, between, let's just say the '60s when my dad started farming, you could go and buy a farm and it would...

There's getting to be a lot more competition.

And so back in the day when a farm would sell, it'd typically be the auctioneer would go out to the 80 and he'd have the neighboring farmers.

- [Rob] Yeah, good old days.

- You didn't have the, I call 'em the real estate investment trusts and, you know, the internet opened up, just became more... People became more aware of farm ground and you know...

So it's getting out of reach for a lot of people.

- Do you think it's always been that way and we just?

- I don't think so because, as I'm going out to do appraisals for estates, and one in particular sticks out in my mind.

- [Rob] Yes.

Ours?

- No, no, this was for an estate.

We do a lot of appraisal work if somebody was to pass away and then, you know, they get the stepped up basis.

But I asked the lady, she was my age, "How'd your dad get this ground?"

She said, "Well, he started farming, bought it, and then just kept buying again."

And I don't see too many people my age that have started on their own without having family backing and have been able to keep buying.

- They got some heck of a side gig.

But, Dan, I could talk about land prices all day, but we do have to go.

I wanna thank you for being on.

For people that don't know, you've been an incredible pillar in agriculture up in Bureau County, so I want to thank you for that too.

So Dan Legner from Princeton, Illinois, thank you very much.

- Well, thanks, Rob.

Enjoyed it.

- Everyone else, we'll catch you next week.

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