(upbeat music) - Welcome to At Issue, I'm H Wayne Wilson.

And as always we appreciate your joining the conversation.

This nation is attempting to become independent when it comes to energy.

We wanna reduce our carbon footprint, and solar is part of the solution.

So we're going to have a conversation about what residents and nonprofits in Central Illinois can do to benefit from solar energy.

To have that conversation, let me introduce to you Andrew Braun.

Andrew is the Peoria County Planning and Zoning Assistant Director.

Andrew, thank you for being with us.

- My pleasure, thank you.

- [Wilson] Also with us is Greg Porter.

Greg is the owner and region manager of Porter Electric.

Thanks for being with us.

- Thanks for having me - And Yvonne long is here.

Yvonne is the Hawk-Attollo operations manager.

And when you say Hawk-Attollo, we're going to explain what that is in just a moment, but first I wanna start with just a rough idea of what role solar plays in terms of how much growth in.

And I'll ask multiple people here, what the growth pattern is.

But Andrew, let's start with you in terms of how are we doing growth wise with solar energy in Peoria County?

- So in unincorporated Peoria County we've seen quite an increase in the amount of solar development projects over the last four to five years.

Those range from roof mounted solar projects to ground mounted solar projects to solar energy generation facilities or solar farms, if you will.

It's something that we've seen ups and downs but a pretty consistent pattern, over the last four years especially - Do we have any idea the number of permits that have been issued - Over the last four years we're looking at roughly 240 permitted projects.

Roughly 2/3 of those would be roof-mounted projects, and 1/3 being ground mounted erase.

- And that's just in unincorporated Peoria County - Correct.

- Greg, from your perspective what has growth been like either nationally or locally?

- So on a national standpoint, the statistics say that the residential solar has increased about 30% last year in 2021 from the installs in 2020.

And it's expected that because of supply chain issues and material that 2022 will be about a 25% decrease as opposed to 2021.

However, in Illinois because we are still on our state tax incentive that has been a couple years in the making of being renewed and is now back on pace to be funded till 2030 that we expect in Illinois that the installs will go up significantly over the next couple of years.

- Let's talk about Hawk-Attollo that's two words.

Greg installs solar panels, Andrew on behalf of the county permits them.

You serve a different role of you help nonprofits primarily, what role do you play?

- Sure, so nonprofit and tax exempt organizations are underrepresented in the solar market place.

And that's typically because without having a capital budget they're not able to have the same return on investment that a commercial entity would be able to have.

They can't monetize the federal tax investment credit.

They can't monetize the depreciation.

And so what we do essentially is serve as a development partner with them and we monetize what they cannot.

And for that matter most nonprofit and other tax exempt organizations, there people are wearing many hats.

They are sometimes doing two jobs per person.

And so taking on something like administering solar and trying to understand how renewable energy credits work and the reporting requirements is somewhat burdensome for them.

And so they can rely on a development partner who is an expert in the marketplace to be able to do that work for them.

And essentially they work with us to tell us what their goals are and what they wanna see.

We do a system behind the meter for them for their sole benefit and then we will own and operate it potentially as well.

Or we might partner with another entity to do that.

- You would work for instance with... You don't physically install.

- We do not do installation.

- Okay, so you might work with Greg or another company to- - [Yvonne] Absolutely - Actually put the panels in place.

- Yeah, we serve as a development partner and we might work on support related to permitting or something like that.

Or other authorities having jurisdiction like schools who have to work through the regional office of education will help manage that.

- Greg, there are basically two different types of solar energy.

One is concentrated solar power, which you don't deal with.

- [Greg] Correct.

- And if you would just give us the 30 second version of that, but you deal with photovoltaic which would be what we're used to seeing the solar panels.

- Correct, so photovoltaic is the act of converting the sun's energy directly into a usable direct current energy through the solar modules.

Whereas the concentrated solar that you mentioned it uses more of a mirror based system that focuses the suns heat on water for a power source.

At least that's my understanding.

It's not really our area of expertise, but it super heats the water into steam which then turns the turbine in a generator similar to coal plants and natural gas plants and nuclear power plants that use a different source of energy to heat the water, to turn the turbine.

- So let's go to your area of expertise, the primer on how this panel works.

You put the panel typically up on the roof although it can be on the ground.

And it converts sunlight- - Into DC energy - DC energy direct current.

- Right.

- [Wilson] Okay.

- Most people are familiar with alternating current which is what homes and commercial buildings use to power their appliances and lights, et cetera.

DC is a form of energy that see or more familiar with in cars and boats and ATVs and things like that.

So in the current state of how the energy is converted from the sun in a solar module is not really usable in a home, so to speak.

So the modules will convert the sunlight into DC which is then strung together in series through the solar modules and sent down to an inverter which is akin to a transformer.

And it converts the DC energy to AC energy at a very high efficiency rate, usually 99% or greater.

And then that feeds the home.

- Before we go any further, you talked about the high efficiency that's at the inverter - Correct.

- The panel is not that efficient.

- Correct, so the solar modules, although they have been coming more efficient over the years, usually we'll see a rating of anywhere from 20% to 22% efficient on the solar modules.

And what that really means is that they are 22% efficient at creating electricity off of the sun's energy.

So a 100% of the sun's energy that would be absorbed by the solar module would only be converted to... Well, I won't say only 'cause a feet in and of itself, but will be converted to 22% usable energy.

- Before we go any further down that path and confuse me, let me turn back to Andrew because before Greg can go out and put anything on a rooftop or in the ground, Peoria County gets involved because there's a permitting process.

- Right, right, so Peoria County over the years has worked with dozens of different solar installers.

And we have a process outlined on the peoriacounty.gov website that will give you a checklist for either a residential application or a commercial application.

We are going to ultimately issue a building permit and an electrical permit to either one or perhaps two contractors depending if you're utilizing both services.

Once the permit has been reviewed and issued, Peoria County will also conduct inspections on site to ensure that is installed in accordance with the adopted building codes.

- So what does the county look for when you go out to a particular homeowner and the homeowner wants to put in the solar panels.

What kinds of steps do you have to check off before Greg can even put- - [Andrew] Sure.

- A panel up there?

- So not all houses were developed to withstand loads on the roofs the same.

So the very first step for a roof mounted system is to ensure that you have an architect or an engineer a design professional sign off that the weight of that system can be supported by the existing infrastructure.

Once we've got that in line, then we're going to look at the manufacturer's installation instructions to ensure that it is being installed correctly.

And that all components of the system are compatible with one another.

Assuming that you're able to meet all those requirements, you'd be able to then get your permit for a roof monitor system.

- Compatibility?

- So we look at the racking system or how the panels are actually being held and whether they're compatible with those solar panels.

The way that we look at the inverter and whether or not it's compatible with those panels.

And then how it's ultimately all tied together.

So not all parts are necessarily interchangeable with each different manufacturer's components.

And so we want to ensure that there is no slipups in that system in terms of compatibility.

- Greg, help me on the compatibility issue with going between the panel and the inverter.

Do they come as a package?

- No, they do not.

So we're a bit unique in that we design and install.

So we're familiar with the entire process from start to finish.

To kind of touch on what he was saying.

It all starts with somebody contacting us that they are interested in installing solar energy.

And we send one of our designers out to the home, to inspect the site.

Inspect the electrical infrastructure, take pictures of the roofing structure and things like that that will need submitted later for the engineering process.

And then we come back to our office and they compile all of that information into a design with the solar modules, the inverters, power optimizers the way that we're going to interconnect the rail and the supports that we use.

And we send that off to engineering to be confirmed or redesigned to get their stamp of approval on it.

And then we submit that to the city with the racking layout, the solar module layout or the inverters gonna be, where the interconnects gonna happen the size of the electrical service.

There's a great number of details that need to be disclosed to the permitting officials, in order for them to make the decision that this is going to be a proper install.

And then after they have approved it, it would come back to us and it would be ready to install.

- Is this similar for when you're developing a solar program for a nonprofit organization?

- Yes, very much.

So we do preliminary designs as well based on feedback and input from the customer.

So we review their utility bills and talk to them about what kind of a percent offset they would like to see with that solar asset.

And then we'll do the same thing he does with site inspections.

Sometimes we might call Greg and Greg ask to help with a site inspection for a project even.

Particularly under Illinois solar for All.

But otherwise we do a lot of that same thing with site work and determining whether or not the structure will support an array.

We ultimately tend to own it and operate, maintain it.

And so we are protecting both the customer and Hawk-Attollo and that process.

And the same thing we'll send it to an engineer to review and approve.

- And the permitting process for land based solar panels would be similar except that you don't have to worry about the integrity of the structure.

- Well, we do still look at the integrity of the racking structure.

Because that's designed a little bit differently, certainly than the rails that are gonna be installed on a roof.

In addition to the other components that we look at on the roof mounted.

For ground mounted, we do look at the site layout and ensure that it does meet setbacks.

So we treat this as an accessory structure and much like a shed or a garage.

It would have to be set so far off of a individual's front side or rear property line.

We've seen instances where a variation from that requirement has been granted, but in general those do need to meet the setback requirements of the county's ordinances.

- So we're ready to install and we get it up on the roof or on the ground.

What kind of benefit do I get as a homeowner?

I mean, what's my payback period?

If I generate more power than I use, do I get a benefit there?

- Yeah, so the main benefit is you get to see a lot of happy electricians installing your solar for a few days.

- Okay.

- The payback period is typically for a residential customer about three to five years on their out of pocket expense.

And when I say out of pocket expense, that would be what the homeowner would be responsible for after the state incentives and the federal tax credit.

And we also offer a financing option for residential customers that allows them to install solar for zero dollars down essentially, no money out of their pocket up front.

And then they have a solar loan at a certain APR rate, usually depending on their credit that we try to keep below the cost of what the energy the solar is offsetting.

So they're kind of cash flow equal.

- And if you generate more power, then you use, does that go to the grid or?

- It does, so through net metering with Admired and Comred and most of the co-op utilities, they have a net metering policy that when you over produce what your we'll say, your home is using at the time, they will take that extra power on to the grid and give you a dollar for dollar credit that you can then pull from in the evening or during a storm or in the less productive months of the year.

- And then this is all possible because of the tax credit.

- Correct.

Well the net metering is not.

The installation is possible yes, due to the tax credit, which can get the cost of solar installed for usually significantly less than what just purchasing your power from the utility would be.

- And that's 26% right now?

- Correct, this year is 26%.

It was originally slated to be 22% but they renewed that this year up to 26%.

So the following year, it will be a 22% tax credit.

And then the following year it will go to zero.

- And it's important to note that, that's a tax credit it's off of your next year's taxes.

- Correct.

- Okay.

And one of the benefits that Hawk-Attollo offers is that the nonprofit would not qualify for these credits but you can make arrangements that that will happen - Right, well because we will own the asset and they have the full benefit of it behind the meters.

So they have similar with a residential customer.

They have that net metering benefit.

And then it's is there for the course of a 12 month period, and then it resets.

So during those cloudy days or in the months where it produces less, then they've banked what has been produced in more along the lines of the summer months.

And they're able to have that for their benefit.

But we need the... Not just the federal tax benefits and depreciation benefits, but also the solar renewal energy credits to do what we do because we subsidize the system.

Our goal is to provide minimum of a 10% savings for our customers.

In most cases we can do that.

It's become increasingly challenging with some supply chain issues and the renewable energy credits are less at least in draft format right now than they have been.

But we need those in order to provide our customers with savings which is what our mission is.

- And turning to you, Andrew, so far we've been talking about residentials or nonprofits in Yvonne's case.

But there are a couple of solar farms is the generic term solar farms in Peoria County?

- Right, so the county has approved permitted and is my understanding that they're fully operational solar farms or solar energy generation facilities as our ordinance defines them in the Southeastern portion of Peoria County., as well as the Northeastern portion of Peoria County.

The roughly two megawatts in scale.

And they have thousands of arrays installed at those specific locations.

- So if you were to see them it'd just be row after row, after row of panels on an angle.

- That is correct.

- And those are commercial operations?

- Those are commercial operations.

Those are owned by private developers.

And so ultimately I believe Greg can explain that they are subscription based.

And so you're subscribing to the energy that they are ultimately producing as opposed to them producing energy specifically for one individual site.

- And let me turn to Yvonne again, because you do this for nonprofits but do you do things for where I can subscribe to a solar energy producing facility?

- We do as an example, working with the Village of Deer Creek to develop a community solar project that was part of the original lottery through the future energy jobs act.

And we'll be able to have off takers there, that could be both commercial and residential.

- Greg, we talked about the efficiency of panels, 20, 22 somewhere in that range, probably getting a little bit more efficient as time goes by, but I'll tell you what the sun doesn't... Until this week or this past few days we haven't seen a lot of sun.

Is there still an advantage here is or panels not very effective when it's cloudy?

- So when it's cloudy that the production is definitely reduced.

It is still producing electricity when it's cloudy.

And usually we build in about a 5% weather.

We'll call it a weather decrease in annual energy for systems installed in Illinois.

So I know it seems like it's cloudy and it rains a lot and it snows a lot, but that's about all we see from what would be considered a maximum perfect efficiency.

100% of the year, we see about a 5% reduction in overall production due to weather.

- Andrew, the county, Peoria County has had some experience with solar out at the Peoria County jail.

- Yes, sir.

- And this was a company that installed a solar array several years ago.

And you're struggling with that.

Have you been able to resolve that issue in terms of getting it fixed?

- It's my understanding that the solar array that was installed out at the Peoria County jail is about 66% efficient at this point.

There's been some components of the array that are no longer operating efficiently, and it has been a struggle to find an individual company that can service that panel or array because they were not the ones that originally installed that array.

- So Greg, when you installed do you offer a maintenance so to speak, so that if you had installed Peoria County and I know you didn't.

But they could call up and say, "Hey, this isn't working quite right."

Is there a warranty so to speak?

- There is so there's manufacturer warranties on the modules, on the inverters on the racking similar that will cover the material costs of any replacements.

Most tier one solar modules are warranted to be producing at least 80% of their initial energy at year 25.

So if at any time it falls off that scale then that solar module is available to be replaced through the manufacturer for no cost of the material.

What we do see a lot of is that the agreements that some people have signed into to get the solar installed don't include a labor warranty.

So in order for them to replace a significant amount of solar modules or inverters to get back up to what I have to imagine was like an out-of-state developer, which we saw a lot of during the initial incentive program startup.

It would be a fairly significant cost for labor.

So we offer a 30 year labor and material warranty with our installs.

That is pre purchase through a third party insurance company so that it would cover the material and the labor both.

- And now that we've enticed several viewers into saying, I ought to look into solar.

Maybe we should tell them which direction should their house face before we even look at that.

- So a south facing roof is ideal in that it will produce about 20% more than a west east facing roof for the same solar module.

A north facing roof is not great for production really at all.

So most of the time we try to stay away from putting anything on the north facing roof and tend to not really see a very good payback for that.

- And you have to be worried about things like chimneys and dormers and things of that nature.

- Correct, there are setback rules through the fire marshal, through structural engineering that need to be followed.

So an event of a house fire, the fire department needs to be able to get onto the roof without stepping over solar modules and things like that, which comes through the permitting process and the engineering process.

- And with that, we have concluded our conversation.

You can continue your conversation and give a call to the appropriate organizations to ask more questions about solar installation.

Remembering that the county will be heavily involved or in the case of City of Peoria or City of Bloomington they would be heavily involved in permitting that.

Let me say thank you to Yvonne Long, who's with Hawk-Attollo and to Andrew Braun, who is with Peoria County and also to Greg Porter, who is with Porter Electric.

Thank you all three for joining us on At Issue.

We'll be back next time with another edition of At Issue.

We'll be talking with the executive editor editor of the Peoria Journal Star.

Questions directed at him on the next At Issue.

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