(lively music) - Welcome to "At Issue."

I'm H Wayne Wilson.

Thank you, as always, for joining us for a conversation.

A company, an organization, a community, should be fostering a culture where the employees are feeling supported, that there is a feeling of inclusion.

We're going to have a conversation about inclusion, about diversity, about equity in the workplace, with three diversity and inclusion officers.

First, let me introduce to you Michael Hurt.

Michael's with the City of Bloomington, where he's the Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer.

Michael, thank you for joining us.

- Thank you for having me.

- Andre Allen is here.

Andre is the Peoria County Chief Diversity Equity and Inclusion Officer.

Andre, thank you.

- Thanks for having me, H. - And you may also recognize him as being a city council member.

Melodi Green joins us.

Melodi is with Peoria City, where she's the Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer there.

Thank you for joining us, Melodi.

- Thank you.

- And I suppose the place to start first is to have a definition of inclusion.

Michael, why don't you start us off and give us an idea.

And I don't want a dictionary definition.

- (Michael) Okay.

- I want a reality check.

- I'll do my best to avoid Merriam-Webster.

When we talk about inclusion in terms of our employees, we're talking about a place that's safe for that employee to be their authentic self.

They needn't come and hide the fact that they may be LGBTQ or being judged on some sort of disability.

Inclusion includes all of those diverse pieces that represent all of us.

- And if you don't feel comfortable in a workplace, the first thing that happens is what?

- The employee, what should happen, if they don't feel welcomed, is to talk to a supervisor who would then refer them to my office and we would assist them any way we can.

But what we have been seeing is, because there were so many jobs open, that individual would just leave.

And during the exit interview we would find out they were leaving because they didn't feel included.

- So Andre, it appears that the the challenge for all three of you is to create, to change, the atmosphere at your particular organization.

How do you go about doing that?

Because obviously there must be some sort of bias that exists, at least in some of the employees at your respective communities.

How do you go about changing that environment?

- You know, you have to be very intentional.

You have to have support from senior leadership.

You have to have the resources available.

So whether that is professional training opportunities for employees whether that is opportunities to really engage stakeholders both internally and externally of the organization, to really truly create that sense of belonging.

- And that's not something that's going to happen next week, next month, or even next year.

- No, so when you look at it, the history of our country you are trying to combat decades and decades of different systematic issues that exist in our society that have trickled into our workplaces.

So you have to realize that this work is patient, you have to be intentional about it, and realize that everyone is gonna be on a different step on this DEI journey, if you will.

And so you have to be ready for that and committed.

- And for those in the audience, DEI, we'll use that term quite often, diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Melodi, I want to expand the conversation beyond your workplace.

- Okay.

- When we talk about creating an environment where we can have inclusion, that has to start in the community not just at Peoria City Hall.

- I agree.

It has to start with the kids.

It has to start with parents who inform their kids about our society and how to grow up, how to become responsible adults.

And part of becoming a responsible adult is embracing other people within our society, despite differences that we may have.

I think once we start to do that we spread it out through our community, throughout our schools, our educational systems, and then as we grow up into adults and enter into employment, that is what is ingrained in us, as opposed to some other things that could be ingrained in us if we continue on the track of discrimination.

- We know that diversity training exists at companies or at cities but how do you go about training the general public?

- Someone's got a set a standard.

If it doesn't start in the public it can very well start in the workplace.

We have outlets in terms of city council meetings, in terms of our websites where we can add diversity into our branding, so that it is always in the face of everything that we do, from our hiring, from doing business with our vendors, from when we deal with the general public.

Diversity needs to be ingrained in everything we do.

Therefore we have set a standard that a wider audience can view and realize that this is a change that needs to happen, hopefully.

- I want to go back to the city, Melodi, because traditionally the city has had a difficult time, just finding applicants who are diverse, whether that be Hispanic, Black, maybe a physical disability that doesn't preclude them from being a firefighter or a police officer.

How do you go about finding the candidates to begin with, let alone the testing process in hiring them?

- Sure, I think there are, as Andre stated earlier, there are systemic issues that we have to look at if we really wanna tackle the root of some of these issues.

We know that minorities and diverse candidates are not less capable, we're not less capable than the majority.

But what is the reason that we cannot be retained?

What is the reason that we are not interested in these positions?

Or is that even the truth?

I think a lot of it has to do with is it educational access that is lacking?

Is it access to opportunity that is lacking?

One major thing that is lacking is representation.

If we don't have representation it's gonna be a battle to bring people that look like us to a job where no one else like that exists.

And I think that we have to look systemically at things that have happened in the past and figure out, okay, how do we start to target some of these things individually, in order to make an impact collectively.

- Let me ask Andre about, once someone is hired, you've got a qualified candidate, you hire them, they're a minority, and there is discrimination within that department.

How do you handle that?

Because retention, it's not just hiring minorities, to try to make sure that you reflect the population of the community, but how do you retain employees?

- So that intentionality piece is very important.

So when you are bringing on a new employee you need to have some type of diversity, equity, inclusion training and letting he or she or they know that there are reporting mechanisms in place so that way they can address those issues right when they occur.

So whether that's reporting it to the direct supervisor, going to the appropriate human resource official, or the DEI officer of the organization, if that one exists, so that way these issues don't snowball.

Because what happens is, especially those who come from underrepresented communities, we are so used to this, so that we might not say something right away and it just snowballs, snowballs and snowballs.

And then you ultimately don't get the work output that you need from that individual.

And it ultimately contributes to them quietly quitting and ultimately they will transition from your organization.

So you have to have the mechanisms in place where people feel comfortable saying things and when they do report or they do say things, your organization has to take action.

They can't just be a file that's wrote up and it's just put in the filing cabinet.

That person needs to feel that when they said something, it was addressed and they feel valued at your organization.

- Melodi, we're not just talking about being tolerant we're talking about inclusiveness.

So for, let's pick an example of 20 people in a department, there's one minority.

And on Fridays they go out at 4:30 PM after work and say, "We're gonna stop by XYZ bar for a beer "before we go home to dinner."

And can the minority feel excluded from that in certain situations?

- Absolutely, number one, the minority came to work nine times out of 10 with some sort of invisible burden on their shoulders to begin with, just to get through that day.

It's a difficult space to be in when you have no one that you can relate to and you are expected to produce an output the same, if not better, than other individuals within your organization.

And so for the larger group, the end group is what I call it, that goes to have drinks on every Friday, this minority may not want to join that group because they may not feel comfortable, they might not want to subject themselves to micro-aggressions that may occur, they might not feel like it's an inviting environment, even if they were in fact, invited.

A lot of times the feeling is like, "Whew, it's Friday, " I can get back to my real life."

As opposed to, "Let me extend this workday some more "by going with this group that I do not feel a part of."

- Michael, you're not nodding in agreement.

- Yeah, but we've, we've had a couple of those instances where someone quietly quit, but in the meantime they're on their computer looking for another job someplace else.

And then they come with the announcement that I'm leaving.

And like I said, we wait until they get to the exit interview table to find out what the problem was.

One thing that I know would help also is when a new employee comes in and they are the minority.

If you assign a mentor to them to sort of help them navigate the culture, let them know where to go if they're having issues, and what issues are dealt with by the diversity office, which ones are dealt with by HR.

that can help that individual.

And as Andre said, if this report comes up to administration, or up to my office, there needs to be some very decisive action taken.

That action needs to send a message to the rest of the organization that the head of this administration, in our case it's the City Manager, is very serious about the issue of diversity and inclusion, and this is what happens,, or what can happen if this sort of behavior continues, if this culture continues this way.

- Do you get support from Mr. Gleason, the City Manager?

- Absolutely, he created this job.

It didn't exist before 2020, but the systemic racism existed, just went on and on.

Prior city managers have told the administrative staff the executive staff, well you basically hire who you want to hire because you can be responsible for the success of your department.

So feel free to hire who you want to.

And that has gotten us to where we are now, where our minority workforce is in no way representative of what's in our, of the demographics, within our community.

- For instance, you're about 10% African or minority?

- We're about 10% African American.

I think the population of Bloomington is 77,000.

So we would probably look at maybe 23% of that 100,000 or whatever, should be African American, or should be some sort of diversity.

African American, whatever you want to call it, in terms of racial diversity, disability, sexual orientation.

But we don't have that.

Overall, I think, out of the 650 employees that we do employ, we're somewhere around 70, in terms of diversity.

- And what about the police and fire department?

- Police and fire department- - And I ask that because that's where, quite often, the public interfaces with the police officer or maybe the firefighter.

- Absolutely, I think right present, well I know present, we have one African American firefighter.

We do have some Latino firefighters and Latino policemen.

But there's only one African American policeman that I think we have right now.

So the representation is just, isn't there.

- Andre, Melodi earlier mentioned the term micro-aggression.

I suppose we ought to define that and how does that work into the everyday situation where I may not be aware that I am micro-aggressing.

- Um-hmm, so it's something that you could be doing implicitly or explicitly.

Implicitly, meaning you're not knowing that you're doing it and so you're ignorant to it, just because of, maybe that was just how you were raised.

We all have, I look at people as clay.

We've all been molded by our past experiences, how you grew up in your household, what church you went to, what music you listen to.

All that has molded you into the person you are today.

And so you may be micro-aggressing, if you will, if we're gonna use that verb, without knowing.

And then you have those who are explicitly doing it, they know better, but they feel that because they maybe are part of the dominant group, then they feel that they need to exude their dominance on a particular group that they feel is below them.

And they do that using micro-aggressive behavior.

- So is an incumbent among me as a white man if I see a friend of mine and I recognize some micro-aggression, assuming I do recognize it, in the presence of a minority, maybe not at that moment, but at some point should I have a discussion?

Is that part of developing a culture in the entire community?

- Absolutely, so after the murder of George Floyd I had so many of my White colleagues and counterparts reach out to me saying, Andre, this was not right.

What can I do to help?

What can I do to make a change?

And I said, before you think about trying to hit a home run and impact your community or your organization, are you impacting your kitchen table?

Are you impacting when you all go to the local Applebee's and you notice one of your friends is being different to this waitress because she's a minority versus when you were at the other restaurant and that person aligned with your racial makeup you didn't give that person the same pushback.

And you can have that conversation, maybe not publicly in front of the group, but you can give them a call later that day and say, "Hey, I noticed that you were acting a little bit different "because of this at this restaurant versus that restaurant."

And I think that's so important in this space that we as officers, we need allies.

We cannot shoulder this burden ourselves.

We need allies who understand the importance of this work.

We're not asking you to be a subject matter expert by no means, but your commitment there can help us move the ball down the field.

- So Michael it sounds like, listening to Andre, that your job just isn't to find more minorities for positions within the City of Bloomington, but to influence the entire community and you're just one person.

- Absolutely, and those charges are built into my job description.

But I don't do it alone, I'm part of a group of diverse diversity officers.

We exchange ideas with one another.

When things come down the pipe, that they know I've got an issue with this, they will let me know.

But yeah, it is, it's impacted the entire community.

But we have to start at home.

In my opinion, we've got so much, in terms of systemic racism, processes we've had for decades that have precluded us, enlarging our pool of diverse candidates.

Bloomington had a reputation, or has a reputation, for a very long time, of not being particularly kind to minorities when it came to hiring processes, or even getting an interview.

So we have instituted, between my office and the Human Resources Office, instituted processes that help us with that in terms of getting employees through the application process who are diverse.

We have included, instituted blind recruitment.

None of the hiring managers know the name, the school these people went to, all they see on that application is the education and the experience.

And the person who advances to the interview is just based on those facts.

But once you get to the interview table, again, implicit and explicit biases can kick in.

So to counteract that, there always needs to be a person of diversity, a diverse individual, at that table when that interview goes on.

- Has it helped at all that you have the organization, not in our town, in terms of reaching out to the community and trying to develop a different culture?

- It is very helpful to have these community partners come to walk alongside us or we walk alongside them.

At the basis level, we both have the same intentions in terms of creating access, creating equity across the board in whatever we do in terms of the city, whether it's with employment or whether it's with public accommodation, finance.

There, there have been, of course, issues with red line districts and insurance companies not wanting to finance houses, banks not wanting to finance houses, I'm sorry, in certain areas.

And a lot of those areas, if you are maybe a minority, you don't have the best job.

You're not at the executive level, but you have a house that you can afford.

But it happens to be within that red line level.

These are the things we have got to stop.

We've got to honor people where they are.

- Andre, is there, have you come across, and I know you're new on the job, but you have experience in this field, what about backlash?

If you hire a minority, is there a problem with, say a White applicant, who felt, "Oh I'm, did you hire them because they're Black?"

- (Andre) Um-hmm.

- How do you deal with backlash?

- So overall, this is when you have to define what is equity and not equality.

So equity is LeBron James is six-eight, and he's playing Muggsy Bogues who's five-two and equity or excuse me, yeah, equity is, we're gonna lower the hoop for Muggsy Bogues, 'cause he's only five-two.

He shouldn't be playing on the same 10-foot hoop against six-eight LeBron James.

And so that's why we have to let people know that I'm not saying that you don't deserve this opportunity, but this particular group has not had these opportunities for decades in this country.

And we have to remember, equity doesn't just apply to African Americans or minorities.

If you think about post World War II, when the GI Bill was implemented, that was equity for our soldiers that came home from the war to make sure that them and their families were able to have access to loans, jobs, educational opportunities, to combat some of the things that they inherited fighting for our country.

And so we are all beneficiaries of equity and equity is a tie that raises all boats.

- And that was true after the Vietnam War with the U.S.

Postal Service and other governmental agencies.

- (Andre) Absolutely.

- That hired a lot of Vietnam vets.

- If I could just add, H, there's often a misconception that if you choose a minority candidate over a White candidate, that minority candidate is not qualified.

And I just want to express that that's not the case.

It is not legal to just have a preference for a minority candidate simply because they're a minority candidate.

The minority candidate would also be qualified.

The minority status is just a part of the background.

So I just wanted to make clear that you hire a minority candidate, that minority candidate is qualified for the job or they should be.

- That's why the blind applications are beneficial.

- Absolutely.

And in terms of terminating someone who may be a diverse employee, the expectation is when you employ somebody, it's a contract We pay you and we have an expectation that you're gonna do the job well.

If we find out after, you can't meet those expectations, we send you for, to training to help you with those deficiencies.

So as an employer, if we've done all we can to get you up to speed so that you can be successful on the job and you're still not successful, then regardless of where you fall within that diverse pipeline, determination won't be affected.

And it's absolutely fair.

I don't like terminating anybody, personally.

I've been there myself, so I know that feeling.

But yeah, there is an expectation that you meet the the requirements of the job.

- Melodi, how are we doing on progress?

Not just within hiring people in the city of a diverse background, but the community.

Are we making progress over time?

You've been in the community for a while, a long while.

- Yeah.

I'm born and raised in Peoria.

I don't know if I'm equipped to answer that question fully.

I mean, for me, just being here and doing this work is progress.

Having a supportive city manager, having a supportive city council is progress, and it's progress for our community moving forward.

There are a lot of community leaders who fought, and continue to fight, for diversity and equity and inclusion.

So I think progress is constant, but we are up against years and years and years of oppression built into our system.

So I guess it depends on who's measuring what the progress is.

I do think we're making progress, but there is always more work to be done.

- And it's always difficult to measure progress when you're talking about the culture of a community.

It's not just, "Well we were able "to hire two more African American officers "or what have you."

It's that environment that exists.

Andre, you're on the city council.

Do you, what, how do you feel about progress in developing the equity in the community?

- We're moving the ball down the field getting four yards at a time.

We're not necessarily throwing no Hail Mary's right now, but when I look at the makeup of our city council, we have the most diverse city council in the history of this city.

When I look at other organizations around this city that are being led by African Americans and other minorities, I think that we've definitely made some progress.

And that's when that representation that we talked about earlier is so important.

But we do have some ways to go.

You know, when you look at unemployment rates of African Americans in the City of Peoria, pre-COVID, we were at 18%, which is three times the national average.

And the national average was at 6% pre-COVID, and that was a record low in this country.

So we are three times behind in the City of Peoria.

- Michael, when we talk about this attitudinal change in the community, the greater community, - (Michael) Um-hmm.

- Do you, can you assess whether that is different with people of Baby Boomer age versus Millennials, versus Gen-Zers?

- Yeah, there's always gonna be some generational issues that go on.

What I discovered, Andre's generation, which is my son's generation, and individuals who are younger, they were raised in schools where they were put in contact with people of different races and ethnicities.

So they are a lot more tolerant, if you will, than people of my generation, the Baby Boomers.

So yeah, that, and even once you get them in the same office in terms of different generations, I think what we found out is they discovered they have more in common than they do differences.

- And if I can follow up on that, when you talk about the business case of why this work is important for organizations and municipalities, my generation Generation Z, we want to work for diverse organizations.

We want to live in diverse cities, and the cities that are growing, organizations that are growing, they have that representation.

- And with that the conversation needs to end during this program, but we hope you continue the conversation at home, as we will probably do here.

Let me say thank you to Michael Hurt who is the Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer of the City of Bloomington.

- You're welcome.

Melodi Green, likewise for the City of Peoria, thank you both for being on "At Issue," and to Andre Allen who is the same position, but with Peoria County.

Thank you all for the conversation, I appreciate it.

And we'll be back next time with another addition of "At Issue."

This time we're going to be talking about a new approach to concussion diagnosis, it's called Flight Path.

We'll have the doctor who created it on the next "At Issue."

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