(no audio) (no audio) (no audio) (no audio) (no audio) (no audio) (lively music) - Welcome to "AT Issue."

I'm H Wayne Wilson.

Thank you as always, for joining us for a conversation.

The Human Rights Campaign has reported that 35 transgender and nonconforming lives were lost to violence in 2022.

That includes five dead and 19 injured at the Club Q in Colorado Springs on November the 20th.

In 2021, that number was 50.

Regardless of how you look at it, 2022 was not an improvement over 2021 even though the numbers were lower.

We're going to be talking about the nonconforming individuals who, that's probably an inappropriate term but it's a term that's used quite often.

We're going to be talking about issues affecting the LGBTQ+ community for the next half hour here on "At Issue."

And to have that conversation, I've asked Amy Orwig to join us.

Amy is the PFLAG Peoria founder.

And before we go any further, a quick description of PFLAG.

- So PFLAG is the nation's oldest and largest organization that supports the LGBTQ+ community and their families.

That's what kind of sets us apart.

We're focused on helping to support the families so that they can, in turn, support the LGBTQ+ community and their loved ones.

- And you co-founded the organization several years ago.

- I did.

I did, in 2018 - In the Peoria branch.

- In Peoria, yes, yes.

- Alex Martin is here.

Alex is a local artist.

He's also an instructor of art at Illinois State University.

Thank you for joining us in the conversation.

- Thank you for having me.

- Also joining us, Cassie Lucchesi.

Cassie is the president.

I was gonna say founder but name the president of Peoria Proud.

A quick description of that organization.

- Peoria Proud's mission is to provide education, advocacy, and social outreach for the LGBTQ community in the major Peoria metropolitan area.

- And also with us, Deric Kimler.

Deric is Executive director at Central Illinois Friends.

A quick description of Central Illinois friends.

- Absolutely, yeah.

Founded in 1990, right here in Peoria Illinois by a group of individuals that were concerned about the local response to the AIDS epidemic.

We've grown and changed through the times.

Through 33 plus years now, going on our 33rd year.

And we'd provide now completely full slate STI and HIV testing, education for the LGBTQ+ community, families, schools, etc.

And really focusing on becoming more of a community center for the LGBTQ+ community.

- And you have a new truck for healthcare?

- We do.

We got a brand new mobile unit to take our services out.

We actually opened up a clinic in Bloomington, Illinois in Bloomington-Normal.

So we have two clinics, one in Peoria, of Bloomington-Normal, and then we have a mobile unit that goes throughout 15 counties to provide the services we provide.

- Before we go any further and start talking about these critical issues, we probably should define a few things.

And let's start with the term CisHet, C-I-S-H-E-T. A brief description.

- Yeah, well, so cis, he means cisgender heterosexual.

And so cisgender and cis is the Latin word of the same as.

Cisgender means that you identify as the same sex that you were labeled at birth.

Quite frankly.

Trans being the opposite of.

In Latin word of opposite is that you are the opposite of identifying as the anatomy or that the sex you were assigned at birth.

Het is obviously heterosexual or heteronormativity.

Which is the fact that there is only one way or the other.

There's only straight people.

There's only men and women.

And there always have been, which we know now, that's not true.

- So we have CisHet, we have transgender.

How about gender nonconforming?

- Yeah.

Would you like to take that?

- So gender nonconforming is an umbrella categorization where folks do not perform or do not express their gender identity or feel at home in the gender they were assigned at birth or they express things outside of that cultural norm.

'Cause gender is both psychological and emotional, but also cultural.

So folks like myself who are gender nonconforming do not line up with cultural expectations of what it means to be like a cis man or a cis woman.

- And one other term I wanna have described is non-binary.

- And to talk about non-binary, you really have to first talk about binary.

So binary being the concept that there is male and female when it comes to gender and nothing in between.

Folks who identify as non-binary identify somewhere in between that spectrum of male and female.

- Yeah, like I use the term non-binary to describe myself because I'm trans-feminine.

I don't identify as a woman, but I do not feel comfortable or at home with the sex I was assigned at birth.

And so I sometimes use the term non-binary as a catchall to say I'm expressing something either inside or outside that binary.

- So go ahead.

Yeah, please, Deric.

- I think something that will help with this conversation as we move forward is to understand the difference between, especially for the people that are watching this, the difference between gender identity, gender expression, sexual orientation and anatomy.

So those four things are four separate parts that we all identify differently in.

And none are black and white.

And they don't relate to each other which create all of the issues that we have today.

So for instance, gender identity is cisgender, transgender, non-binary, gender non-conforming, gender queer, two-spirited.

All those can fall under gender identity.

Anatomy could be male reproductive parts, female reproductive parts or intersex.

Sexual orientation could be gay, lesbian, pansexual, demisexual, asexual.

And then you also have gender expression which is determined on wherever you're at in the world on what masculinity is in femininity the way you express yourself.

- I don't wanna go any further until we talk about one term you mentioned, that's two-spirited.

Could you help?

- Yeah, two-spirited is a Native American term that has been around forever, since on the tribal ages.

And two-spirited is the history of peoples who embody the two different spirits.

Spirits of both male female.

Have both masculinity and femininity.

That was the term that was used.

As we all know, language is limiting.

And it adapts as we know more, we do better and we learn more terms.

And two-spirited is a term that people today still use but as an older term that basically provided the understanding that some individuals represented both sides of the male female spectrum.

- And it was created as a bridge between all of the different indigenous groups and nations that were here originally.

Like they all have their own languages and cultures and ideas of gender.

Two-spirited was created as a term to unify all of like, oh, we'll cover it under this, again another umbrella term to cover multiple bases.

'Cause different groups, different cultures have their own belief and so two-spirited encompasses all that.

- Let's turn to some of the issues that the LGBTQ+ community faces.

And one of those that I'd like to start with, Amy, the issue of rejection by family members.

- Right.

Which is huge and tragic.

Within the young homeless population, like the young adults, the largest number that fall within that population happen to be homeless because they were rejected by their families.

And that's one of the things that attracted me to PFLAG is because of course, we're working against that.

I think it's going to require a lot of education and teaching families.

It's okay.

I mean, you love this child, keep loving that child no matter what.

And it's sad that for some of these families, they feel they have to reject their kids.

They think that that's the way to move forward.

And it's really, really not.

I always tell new parents when their kids have come out and they're like, "I just don't know that I know my kid anymore."

I always say, "You know what?

You know this kid.

You've known this kid their whole lives.

The only thing that has possibly changed is that they have shared more of themselves with you.

And now it's up to you to love that and to respect that."

- And let me turn to Alex to further this conversation.

Because is this a case of, at least in many cases, whether that be a parent or a neighbor or a friend, they don't understand and I don't understand who you are, therefore, at the very least, I'm not going to associate with you and I may even harm you because I don't understand.

- I think it's a mix of a lack of understanding, which is why education and outreach, a lot of the organizations that are represented here today do that just so folks know and are aware that LGBTQ folks have existed forever and we're not going anywhere.

And so I think it's a lack of understanding and then also fear.

A lot of people are raised with cultural biases or religious biases or things that frame a certain population as being bad.

A certain population is being less than or wrong.

And those are really hard to undo.

You have to sit and think about yourself, think about your upbringing, think where you're at to undo those prejudices and biases.

And unfortunately, they get taken out on some of our most vulnerable populations when folks can't come to terms with those.

- Cassie, continuing this particular conversation I had a friend, a good friend of mine, who once told me, he said, "H, I didn't choose to be homosexual.

I am homosexual."

They're hesitant to come out and say, I am homosexual, or whatever the case may be.

What advice do you have to people like that?

In the case of a parent that I don't wanna tell my parents that I'm a homosexual or I'm a lesbian or what have you.

- Yeah, I mean, I think it really comes down to creating safe spaces for folks.

So the reason people stay closeted is because of safety, because of concern for other people.

Oftentimes, concerned for their self.

It's a question of whether or not I'm going to be accepted in this space or whether or not I am going to be respected or heard or validated.

And so we have all of these things that are rolling around when we're talking about who we are as humans.

When you're coming out, you're not only coming out to other folks but you're also coming out to yourself first.

You have to first accept that this is part of who you are and then tell others and share that with others.

And so that part is scary.

It's scary.

The realization is scary but also sharing it with others is scary because we don't know how they're going to react.

Or from what we've seen in media or from our friends, families or from others around us is that a lot of times, those reactions are negative.

And when that's what we're working with, those negative reactions, it's a lot harder for people to want to tell folks about themselves.

Particularly young people.

I would say the younger, the harder because they don't know what to expect.

- I wanna stay with you, Cassie, and we can go around the table for anyone that wants to add on the question of parental recognition.

Because all 50 states have laws that say, well, first of all, you can get married.

A male and a male can get married and a female and a female can get married, etc.

But it's legal in all 50 states but when it comes to adoption, that's where we have a problem.

- Correct.

What is the situation and what kinds of laws might we need to correct that?

- Well, that's a great question.

I think a lot of times, when we're looking at adoption, the agencies that hold that power, that have those adoption cases, those are the ones who get to decide who they're going to work with and who they're not going to work with, and I think that's where the issue lies.

So the state can say, or the nation as a whole can say, hey, there's no discrimination against who can adopt a child.

But then there's this caveat that, wait, because of your religious stance, you can decide who you do or do not want to adopt those children too.

And so that's where we have that issue is who is deciding who can adopt children.

I think that laws that could be in place to support the LGBTQ family would have to come with research about how a family unit is not just made up of a mom and a dad but a supportive household.

And two people who care or even one person who cares deeply for this child.

So I think that we would need to see laws that are supported in research in fact, to back that up - Amy, you're nodding your head in agreement on this particular topic.

- Oh, I totally agree.

You did a great job.

- Thank you.

- Great job explaining all that.

- Did Cassie support us right here?

- Yes, yes.

- [H Wayne] Did you wanna add to?

- I think you did a great job.

No, I'm sorry.

- [H Wayne] Deric.

- I can go ahead and add to that because the reality is we can pass laws and we can create ordinances and statements from the governor or the president.

But at the end of the day, like our dear colleague letters that are like to be sent out, that doesn't mean that anyone's held accountable.

And so we've also gotta realize that laws are there to protect ourselves to create a better way of life but that doesn't mean people are being held accountable.

That starts with education.

That starts at a local level.

And so therefore, even though certain things may help when it comes to state adoptions or federal adoptions or adoptions ran by non-faith-based organizations, that doesn't mean that certain states in certain areas who only have faith-based options, those LGBTQ+ people still will not get a chance.

To be able to raise- - Mentioning that, the US Supreme Court has ruled that a Catholic affiliated adoption agency does not have to agree with a same-sex couple.

- Correct.

- [H Wayne] Going through the adoption process.

- Correct.

- They do not have to participate.

- Correct, correct.

- That's a Supreme Court decision.

So state laws.

- They've overturned one decision.

(laughs) - Can overturn more.

I think too, and when we're really asking the question is, who's benefiting from that?

The answer is not that child.

- No, definitely not.

- That child that doesn't have a home, so.

- That's why it's multifaceted in approach.

Like yes, getting bills passed, getting laws passed is a victory but you need to advocate on multiple levels.

You need to be educating folks, you need to provide resources.

Resources for the families and education so folks know that it's just folks who love and want a child to love and want a child to take care of, there's nothing else going on.

We need to share.

It's organizations like this have to do that work of providing resources from the community, providing help, providing support to navigate the system 'cause getting a bill passed is amazing but that's just the very first step.

- Let's talk about bills, Cassie.

You've had an opportunity to lobby for the first time.

- I did.

- Down in Springfield.

- I did.

- HB-8.

- Nine.

- Nine, do we wanna talk about nine?

- HB-9.

- Okay.

Because that's the birth certificate.

- Correct, yup.

And so last Thursday, we had a mini lobby day during the lame duck session and we lobby on behalf of Equality Illinois, who is one of the forerunners in the state for advocating for LGBTQ laws and politicians who support LGBTQ folks in the state.

They're fantastic.

And so we went down to the state and we talked to senators and representatives about HB-9 which would allow the name changes on driver's licenses to be an easier change and also run in accordance with the federal law.

That allows people to change their name once and then not have to do it again and again and again on different documentation.

- And then there's HB-3195 - And that is for, the House of Representatives was voting on that to allow currently in the State of Illinois, if you want to have a multi-stall bathroom, it has to be labeled either male or female.

It cannot be labeled non-binary.

And so that particular House Bill is to remove the language in that documentation that says it has to be male or female and would allow businesses if they wanted to have multi-stall bathrooms that were non-binary or gender neutral.

- Permissive in nature.

- Correct.

- But in terms of one-stall bathrooms, there is a mandatory law.

Is that correct, Alex?

- Yes.

So yeah, one-stall bathrooms in the State of Illinois have to be, an assumption have to be gender neutral accessible.

- An assumption.

- Yeah.

- And going off of that, and these bills being passed like it's not just for ease of life or like, it does help but it helps us get documentation that matches but it's also for safety.

I and other members of the community face violence.

If you go into the bathroom, regardless of what bathroom you go into, people will act out, people express their prejudice, or if someone gets pulled over and they look at their ID and the name and gender marker doesn't match who they are, who they're expressing, there's loads of cases of violence against trans people because information doesn't match up.

Or discrimination at work because information doesn't match up.

So it's not just for quality of life and ease, it's for safety.

- Deric, what about the question of married same sex parents.

They may not be listed on the child's birth certificate if they're adopting or whether they have a surrogate.

They might have a problem with having their names listed on the birth certificate of the child?

- Correct.

There's many regulations and restrictions that occur when members of the same sex either adopt or have a baby through a surrogate.

And it even becomes more complicated with same sex couples interracial relationships or who have a child who maybe not of the same race or ethnicity.

Because if you imagine having only one parent on your birth certificate and it is a parent of a different race or ethnicity, they have their own struggles and stipulations of trying to navigate life.

When on all reality, this is an easy fix.

If we're allowing the same sex couples to have children.

And there's lots of different ways where same sex couples can have children now.

Many different ways.

It's not just having a surrogate or adopting now.

There's many different ways where people can have children but yet, we're not making it easier.

It's easier to have the baby than it is to raise that child.

- Amy, I started the program by talking about 35 people were killed in 2022.

But the more common offense is bullying, cyberbullying, harassment.

- Right.

- How pervasive is that in your opinion?

And what kind of educational process do we need to go through to convince people that harassment doesn't resolve anything?

- Right, right.

Well, I don't have numbers but I would say- - I'm not looking for numbers.

- It's very pervasive.

I know of at least one child that decided to end their lives due to that type of behavior online.

And I don't know that we'll ever know fully because so much of it is online, the cyber bullying, what's going on.

Again, I go back to, I think we need to start educating early on that people of all sorts exist and it's okay.

It's actually good.

And your bullying or picking on somebody isn't gonna make them change, and isn't gonna make you any better.

It's just, we just need to really preach kindness really teach kindness.

- And I think a lot of that has to go with the fact that we try not to tell people that others exist.

We have to acknowledge that the world doesn't revolve around us and our own way of life.

My way of life isn't everybody's way of life.

And so when a child grows up in that household where they believe they don't know any other person other than their way of life and is told that their way is the right way and everybody else's way is wrong, it's easy to encourage bullying and intolerance.

- 21 states have include LGBTQ+ individuals in their anti-harassment, anti-bullying laws.

That means there's 29 states that do not have one.

But there are are four states, Cassie, that have what are commonly known as no promo-homo laws.

Can you explain that to us and how...

I'll use the term offensive, that might be.

- Yeah.

Well, first of all, I mean, just to say homo or homosexual in general, it's rooted in diagnosis.

And so in history, people who were homosexual were diagnosed as homosexual.

Meaning that there was some kind of way to fix it or treat it.

So the word homo in itself is problematic.

But then just to further that, if the no promo homo laws that are there are discouraging folks in schools and in public spaces to talk about LGBTQ folks or acknowledge existence of LGBTQ folks.

- Only four states have that law currently.

- Thank goodness.

- Others have tried.

- Yeah.

- One final thought, Deric.

And that is the effect on mental health.

And Alex, please join in this conversation real briefly.

- Yeah, I mean, so first of all, so LGBTQ+ people have existed since people has existed.

And, and when, when we continue to ignore that fact, it makes life harder to grow up as an LGBTQ+ individual.

And so we have to acknowledge that we talk about people on a daily basis in history that we're LGBTQ+ but we leave that piece out.

We leave the piece out that Friedrich Wilhelm von Steuben was a gay man.

We leave out the fact that George Washington Carver was a gay man.. We leave out the fact that Casimir Pulaski was intersex.

We leave out the fact that we've had many trans, non-binary, two-spirited people, lesbian, gay, who have made major contributions and that is so important for our future to hear.

But with that being said, when it comes to the mental health side age is, we also like to think that if your LGBTQ+ you can't adapt to society which is what makes you have mental health issues, which is what makes, which is what makes you homeless, which is what makes you not be able to hold a job.

And it makes you this way.

But the reality is it's a cause and effect.

And the fact is that our community not being able to help LGBTQ+ community causes mental health issues.

- Also, as a kid in a school, if people police are removed, people think if you don't see any representation if you don't hear anything that you're not gonna come out, you're not gonna do that.

- And with that, I'm sorry but we have to move on.

The clock is moving.

But we hope that we'll continue the conversation here.

We hope you continue the conversation at home.

Let me say thank you to Amy Orwig and to Cassie Lucchesi for the conversation.

- Thank you.

- And also to Alex Martin and Deric Kimler.

Thank you, we appreciate your participation in the conversation.

We'll be back next week with another edition of "At Issue."

We'll be talking about violence again next time.

This is violence against individuals who are affiliated with the Jewish faith or the Muslim faith.

Next time on "At Issue."

(rousing music) (no audio) All of you indicating.

Yeah, we have to get smiles.

- [Director] Alex, look at your camera across the way and smile for me.

There we go, very good.

Okay, camera pan.

Next.

Deric, smile.

Thank you very much.

Take your through.

Cassie, if you'll smile at your camera.

Thank you very much.

Smile, thank you very much.

Take two.

Oh, better smile, yeah, fetch your earphone back here.

- I'm used to doing the promo shots in advance, yeah.

- [Director] Can I talk to you again?

- Okay.

Now you can talk to me in my ear and say bad things.

- [Director] Hey, George, look at me and.