♪♪♪ Scott: Sacramento is home to one of the largest Hmong populations in the U.S.

The Hmong are vibrant contributors to the social and economic life of our region.

Joining us to share their insights about this unique community are Mai Vang, Sacramento City Councilmember, and Nancy Xiong of Hmong Innovating Politics California.

Nancy, tell us who exactly are the Hmong?

Nancy: Yeah, Thank you so much for that question, Scott.

So the Hmong community came here in the 1980s.

Um, As a byproduct of war during the Vietnam War and also a large-- our community was also recruited by the CIA to fight in the secret war.

And so much of our, uh, you know young men were fighting in the war at that time in the 1980s, after the war had ended, we had an influx of refugees coming to the United States and most of our communities ended up coming to California specifically in the Central Valley.

So from Sacramento all the way to Fresno, you'll see a growing number of Hmong Americans in the regions.

We've been here for almost 40 plus years, and we are reaching a point in which a lot of our young people are second, third generations, Hmong Americans and yeah, that's the history of of how our communities got here.

Scott: Councilmember Vang, you represent what has historically been known as one of the most diverse districts in our region.

In fact, in the entire United States.

Tell us the story of the Hmong from your perspective as a part of the broader community and what most Sacramentans that you encounter in your role as a councilperson, don't really know and should know about the community that and the friends and neighbors that they live among.

Mai: Thanks, Scott.

First of all, just thank you so much for having both Nancy and I on just really to talk about our lived experience, which is part of the larger Hmong American experience, which is part of the larger Asian American Pacific Islander experience.

And also I take this moment to say happy AAPI month as well as we're celebrating the diverse cultures here in Sacramento.

Um, And I can absolutely speak from my own lived experience.

You know, as a daughter of Hmong refugees born and raised right here in South Sacramento.

And I would say while we eat, perhaps eat different food, speak a different language, a lot of the struggles that the Hmong American experience -- a lot of struggles that the Hmong Americans or even residents here in Sacramento experience very similar to our black and Latino community.

And I say that because, you know, growing up right here in Meadowview, in South Sacramento, my family, while my parents came here as refugees, we lived alongside black and Latinos and low income families.

And we saw firsthand how the system was really stacked against us.

Right?

And so, yes, when we came here to the United States, there's definitely deep poverty within the Hmong community.

But I would say, you know, our struggle is also very similar to other communities of color as well.

And so I'm grateful to wake up every morning to serve south Sacramento.

And while my identity, while I do identify as as a Hmong daughter and that Hmong experience, I can also understand our other other communities as well and the struggles that they're facing on a day to day basis.

Scott: Well, one, I want to say, as a son of South Sacramento and a product of Freeport Elementary School, I'm glad to always get a shout out for South Sacramento.

And when you talk about the struggles that the Hmong community faces, along with lots of other communities, I want to focus in on something, Nancy, that you and I talked about in the past, and that is that there's this whole concept of model minority and that the broader community and this is true, you know, in the press and a lot of other places talk about, well, the AAPI community are a model minority.

They don't.

And there's an assumption that they don't face any challenges or they don't face the same challenges that other communities do and sometimes are left out of discussions about attention and resources.

Can you speak to that?

Nancy: Yeah, I could definitely speak to that.

So the model minority myth of, you know, assumes that all Asian-Americans do really well.

They're not... there's not any barriers or challenges for them to succeed.

They're all graduating high rates and high school, college and finding really high paying jobs.

Right.

And that's definitely not the case for, you know, the Hmong American community.

And that, you know, a lot of -- So I graduated from college about ten plus years ago during a big recession.

And I feel like that was in itself a big struggle.

Right?

And this past year, we did a community asset assessment for our communities where we hosted different focus groups for Hmong youth, Hmong young adults, and also Hmong parents.

And I think, you know, where we were... we were hopeful that we will learn something completely different about our communities, but that what we realized was that a lot of the struggles still remain the same for our for our communities, right?

Especially for our young people.

Things like - Scott: Give us an example... Nancy: Yeah.

Yeah.

I think the things that came up for them was the growing economic disparity, right?

Like not being able to make enough money or find jobs or find mentorship or really find a circle of networks to really help them succeed professionally.

Right?

The other parts that you really brought up was like wellness and mental health and how that's been really impacting them, as well.

Us coming out of a pandemic and figuring out how to support their families, how to support their parents.

You know, Hmong Americans also live in multigenerational households.

And so that means that our young people are living with grandmas, grandpas, uncles, aunties and it's a lot of people in a... in a household.

And that means that someone in that house has to take care of either the children or the aging elders, right?

And so oftentimes that ends up being our young people.

And that... that... that can take like a big, um, you know, impact on their their mental health on... on how they see themselves and their confidence.

And, um, I think the feeling that often comes up is like not feeling enough right.

Like to be able to do all these things.

And so I think at HIP when we're working with our young people.

It's really our analysis is always about how our our environment hasn't changed.

Right?

And so if our environment hasn't changed and we haven't done policy work or systems change work to really shape the environment that, you know, us or young people, our community lives and we're going to keep seeing the same outcomes.

Right?

And so I think a part of our work is really about how do we center systems change work and empowerment, making sure that we have folks like Councilmember, Mai Vang in office who look like us, who have had the same experiences as us, right?

And... and be able to uplift those experiences because, you know, the Asian American PI Native Hawaiian community is so diverse, like we speak so many different languages, and we just can't be seen as like a monolith.

Like that, We are the same, and with the same languages.

Scott: You know, that's interesting.

Councilmember Vang, you, uh, on your position of influence and power, have to make resource allocation decisions, but you also, in your role focus the public and your colleagues attention on big issues.

Tell us about the challenge of being able to speak to what Nancy was just talking about, about how far too often we might just take the easy route of lumping everyone who's either Southeast Asian or Pacific Islander into the broader AA -- AAPI community and how that sometimes leaves out real discussions and real decisions that need to take place.

Mai: Yeah, absolutely Scott.

You know, oftentimes elected officials or government agency, we use data to inform our decisions.

We use data to inform how we allocate dollars.

And most of the time when we think about Asian-American Pacific Islander, were... we're lumped together.

Right?

Um, and so and it goes back to the model minority myth.

What... what it does -- once -- there's several issues with lumping Asian-American Pacific Islanders together.

You heard from Nancy just earlier.

Our community is incredibly diverse.

I mean, there's over 55 ethnic groups.

We speak over 100 different languages.

And what the model minority does is that it masks disparities, particularly among - Scott: Let me just interrupt you for just a second to ask you this.

Is that very term in some ways, while it's meant as a compliment, harmful or damaging Mai: The model minority myth?

Scott: Yeah.

Mai: Absolutely.

I actually think that -- I...

I believe and I've seen firsthand how the myth itself is harmful to the struggle for racial justice, you just heard from Nancy about the pressure that our young AAPI, our young Hmong students are feeling right?

The needing to succeed and not having the mental health support, not having the mentorship, the resources really to reach their full potential.

And a big part of that is because there is this myth that Asian-Americans are doing well.

But when you just aggregate that data, when you look at that data, you see just, you know, um, how while we have made many milestones, you see the struggles, you see the disparities even within that data.

And so you see that when we talk about gender pay, you often see, you know, the differences between there's organization that puts out data.

Scott: Tell us about that.

Tell us about the gender pay issue.

Mai: Yeah.

So recently, the California woman -- on the commission on California women, they released a data kind of laying out the... the disparities among just the equity pay.

But they what they did was they lumped all Asian-American women together and kind of laid it out, kind of like, here's the disparities among, you know, just women across the United States.

Right.

But if you actually did aggregate about AAPI women data, you would see the disparities within... within our group, right?

With many of our native Hawaiian Pacific Islanders, Laotian and Southeast Asian and when you look at their pay, it's so much lower.

You can say the same thing for education, for access to health care.

Right?

And what ends up happening as policymakers, if we don't have that data, we can't make informed decision on... on resources, on allocation.

Right?

And so that's a reason why it's so important to to disaggregate the data to really be more thoughtful when... when we -- and you know, the other piece is that the model minority myth isn't something that's new.

It was like coined in the 1960s.

Right?

So it's... it's been out in the main narrative as Asian-Americans doing really well.

So if they're doing really well, Why aren't the Latinos and African-American -- and our black community doing well?

Right.

And I see it as a tool.

It's always been a tool to really divide our communities and put other communities down.

And so it's always been a tool - Scott: That's a... that's interesting to hear you say that So you're saying that that that's actually less of a compliment and more as a weapon that's used.

Can you share a little bit more on that?

Mai: Yeah, because what the model minority myth does is that it erases that racism doesn't exist, Discrimination and violence, anti-Asian violence doesn't happen against Asian-Americans.

That's what it does.

Right?

And it... it... it's a tool.

It's actually really harmful for the Asian-American community and not just harmful to the Asian-American community, but for all of communities of color by putting other folks of color in competition with one another.

Right?

When we really should be striving for the liberation of all of us.

And so I see it as a tool really to divide and conquer.

So it's... it's more harmful.

It's harmful to... to the struggle for racial justice.

Scott: Nancy, your... your organization is known in shorthand as HIP California.

Tell us how you came upon that name and what the vision is for the role that the organization plays, not just in your own community, but in the broader discussions within this region and beyond?

Nancy: Yeah, you know, our... our name Hmong Innovating Politics really came out of us, you know, young professionals, folks that have been working at the Capitol or have been like nonprofit space or for me and like one of my -- our other colleagues or organizers had grad -- just recently graduated from college, right?

So we came together, um, after fighting the school closures, we decided that we really wanted to approach politics in a different way, that there has to -- we're tired the status quo, were tired how things are done.

And we want to make sure that, um, we... we get to innovate how, uh, one, our community sees politics and how they are civically engaged.

And then also like, why couldn't we also put out policies that support our communities, Right?

Why couldn't we be also in those roles of of decision making as well?

And so the word that comes up, I think, in our name that often defines folks are like, oh, innovation, right?

I think is a big part of our identity.

And it coming from that has really been the spear of HIP is like how can we do things differently?

And we don't have to do things the way that it's always been done and that we can also center transformative relationships, right?

Like that we... we... we live in the neighborhoods that our communities live in And like, how do we actually care for each other too, right, like that?

We're not just calling you to vote on X, Y, and Z, but that we are also creating stronger relationships with each other and connections.

I think the connections are so important and not just in organizing, but also in the Hmong American community, right?

Is that, you know, if you walk -- if you go to like a Hmong store or even if you went to a state that didn't have a lot of Hmong Americans, you might run into someone who is Hmong and you already have that instant connection of like, “Hey you're Hmong.

Im Hmong, ” right?

And so there's that connection that I think we really want to celebrate in HIP as well is that we're in this together and everything that you're experiencing is not for you by yourself to really to... to work through.

But that we're here and we're going to fight.

We're in this fight together for long term.

Right?

And so making sure that, you know, our communities and our young people really, really have that space.

Our... our goal is really to create a culture of our communities and our young people being civically and politically engaged.

I think oftentimes with the model minority myth, what you know, what also comes out of it is that, you know, Asian-Americans are really quiet and docile and, you know, we don't speak up.

But there has been, like gen -- like histories of like our Asian-American community really standing up and fighting for what's right.

And I think that our, um, you know, our... our goal is that we just, you know, after 40 years of being in the United States, we really want to think about what the future entails for our second and third, fourth generation Hmong Americans and that they belong here and that they have a voice and they have power and they have the ability to shape their environments and policies to... to better serve their... their families, their communities, and so our goal is really to be able to build that... build that up.

Right?

And it's going to take generations like I don't know if I'm going to see in my generation, but I feel really hopeful about - Scott: What is the hardest thing Scott: Nancy.

What's the hardest thing in building toward that goal that you have to change or educate your own community on in order to get from where they are today to where it is that you all aspire them to be?

Nancy: Yeah, I think - Scott: Is it a cultural thing... is it a behavioral thing is a kind of a basic value.

What... what has to change?

Nancy: Yeah... Ooo.

Mai: I - Mai: Yeah.

Scott: Weigh in, come on.

Come on, Councilmember, Come on.

Mai: I think what has to change.

They have to see the possibilities.

Scott.

We have to see the possibilities.

And I say that because I think about the time when Nancy and I was organizing because we co-founded HIP, and I remember they... they had said that we were a bunch of just loud... loud kids causing trouble when we were up doing protest with the parents, when we're actually educating our parents about who's your school board member, you know, these are the concerns that you want to relay to the school board.

You have 2 minutes.

How do you how do you tighten up your message so that the board can understand where you're coming from around the school closures?

Right?

And I think for them, they need to see the possibility They didnt know who a school... a school boardmember was, they didn't know that they could civically engage in this way.

And so as HIP organizers we kind of just -- we were actually in the back, I would say doing the work in the back, but really letting our parents lead by letting them know the possibilities.

I think when they see the possibilities, that's when change can happen, right?

When they don't see it, when they don't see an elected official look like them, when they don't see the possibilities, they don't think it's possible.

Scott: Is there... is there a tension between the younger generation that that you all represent and those that come after you and the older generation in terms of approach or just like, hey, you know, we you know, we don't engage in stuff like this, eh, tell us where that comes from.

That you had to... to kind of play that organizing role.

Nancy: Yeah.

You know, I think that for HIP, uh, our... our biggest you know, we -- our... our... our base that we work with are youth for young adults, Right?

And so we know that we have to start this culture us being civically, and polit -- politically engaged, like, much younger, right?

And often times when we're working with the -- I say that the biggest barriers is like the... the racism and the oppression that they've experience.

Right, like generations after generations and like getting them to... to feel empowered, to use our voice and that they matter is such a, one, It's a big barrier and then also like how... how is it that, you know, what are we doing in order for for them to also see their their belongingness and their worth and... and how they're shaping their, their communities.

Right?

And that's been really important for us, like the belongingness, especially for our young people, because often times our young people come to us, they don't feel Hmong enough, they don't feel American enough, Right?

“American enough.

” And so that leads in to like how they see community.

And if as organizers, we're expecting our... our young people to come back, you know, to get back into to organize our communities.

And they don't feel like they belong there, they're never going to come back.

And so our goal is like, how do we create that here for them?

So that wherever they go, if it's like that being maybe Sacramento or they find, you know, their career options are elsewhere, that they come back home and that HIP will be here for them and we are this really permanent political home for them to really be able to build power with.

And when they're ready, Right?

Like we're here and we're going to give them that platform.

Because I think what often happens is that young people are, you know, elected officials love like “empower youth, ” you know, people -- young people going through leadership.

But what they don't like is when a young person has opinions and thoughts and wants to see things differently.

And so our goal in HIP is like, how do we provide that platform for them so that they're not just practicing it within HIP, but that they also have other platforms to practice it outside of HIP as well?

And so I think for me, like that's like the most exciting thing about our work is like just the belief and themsleves and like how we are, you know, like really combating racism and oppression and making sure that our young people are at the forefront of making decisions for... for their communities.

Scott: You know, all that being said, Councilmember Vang, you are recognized nationally as a leader and a role model, not just among the Hmong community, but other female leaders, especially younger females leaders.

What advice would you give to the young people that Nancy is referencing who are aspiring to have a role like yours and -- or hers and to move into positions of leadership?

How do you want them to get started?

What do you want them to do?

Mai: I think the first thing I would say to them, and it's something I always tell young folks and folks of all ages, is that one, you got to you got to love yourself, you got to trust yourself and you got to believe in yourself.

And when you're able to do all of that, everything, the universe will align itself for you.

And that goes back to the sense of belonging.

Right?

Right?

It goes back to a sense of belonging that you belong here in the United States, you belong here in your community, and that your existence matters to us.

To all of us, right?

That's what I want to tell them.

Because once a young person or an individual, you know, trust themselves, they love themself and they believe in themself, anything's possible.

So.

Scott: Nancy, you have anything you want to add on that Nancy: I think what I would add along -- I just I love that.

We... we just saw council member Mai Vang, uh, recently And so we have brought in young people from Fresno to Sacramento to the Capitol, and I felt like this story encompasses that is that our young people didn't know you could to go to the capital to visit it.

They thought that you had to get a special invitation to come to the capital and the possibilities, the opportunities that I think that we are opening for them.

They are starting to see that this is a place for them to belong to and that we need them also as part of this fight right?

I think that what I would share with folks is like, you know, the patriarchy is real, you know, between me and council member we... we... we know that there's like, you know, whether you're Hmong or not, like the patriarchy really penetrates through all of the different spaces that we're in right?

And so I think for us if we have listened to folks and said like -- you know, and not formed HIP.

I think that we would have not have what we have now.

Right?

And so what I would say is believe in-- like have your values and stay true to your values and your vision and build it.

And folks will come because there's a ton of folks that are also looking for a space of belonging, a space for empowerment, a space for them to also practice their leadership and often times, like being a trailblazer is probably the hardest like job, but it is so transformative, especially when you start to see generations after you be able to create space, right?

And so I would say, yeah, build it and they will come.

And I still stand true to that to this day because of HIP.

Scott: You know, one word that you all both have used a lot in this conversation has been the word belong.

Okay?

If we were forecasting out 25 years in the future, what is there any goal that you can say just one sentence as to what will show that you all have arrived at the place you want to be?

One -- just one sentence very quick.

I'll start with you, Nancy.

Nancy: Well, gosh, one sentence.

We will see... You know, just an increase of voters of like Hmong and Southeast Asian folks that... that... that it's like it's just second nature now.

Right?

Like, right now we are actively phone banking and canvasing.

Scott: Okay.

You got to keep it in one sentence.

All right, Councilmember Vang, you get the last word, one sentence.

Mai: Yeah.

I was going to say...

I was going to say it's the same thing that we're able to build political power here in the United States.

Scott: All right.

And we'll leave it there.

Thank you both and good luck in your work.

Mai: Thank you so much.

Nancy: Thank you so much.

Scott: And that's our show.

Thanks to our guests and thanks to you for watching Studio Sacramento, I'm Scott Syphax.

See you next time right here on KVIE.

♪♪♪ All episodes of Studio Sacramento Along with other KVIE programs are available to watch online at KVIE.ORG/VIDEO