- Welcome to "American Black Journal".

I'm your host, Stephen Henderson.

As we observe Veterans Day, we're taking time to honor the legacy of African Americans who served in the United States Armed Forces.

My first guests are members of the Detroit Chapter of Tuskegee Airmen Incorporated.

Tony Stevenson is President of the chapter, and he's a Captain in the Civil Air Patrol.

Captain Ashley Richardson served in the Army Nurse Corps.

This summer, she was invited by the Honor Flight Network to visit the nation's memorials in Washington DC.

And Norman Folson served in the Air Force during the Korean and Vietnam Wars.

He, too, participated in this year's Honor Flight.

It is great to have all three of you here.

- Thank you.

- Welcome to "American Black Journal".

I'm gonna start with you because my dad also served in the Air Force during the Korean War.

And I'm always talking about how different that experience for him was than it is for people today serving, and African Americans in particular.

He served in Korea and came back to a United States where he couldn't vote.

He lived in Mississippi.

He couldn't sit at a lunch counter in the town where he was from.

And I think all the time about the progress that's been marked, not only in the military but in other parts of American life.

But let's talk about that experience that you had in Korea and Vietnam as a member of the Air Force.

- Well, thank you.

The Korean War was a little different as far as the wars are today.

When I was in Korea, I was stationed at Kimpo, Korea.

For those who have been to Korea, it's K-14.

Now in Korea, the war was close to the time that the United States Air Force was formed.

It was formed in 1947.

And a lot of the NCOs and officers that were in the Air Force at that time were leftovers from the old Army Air Corps.

And some of them were from the Deep South and they brought their prejudices with them.

However, the Air Force changed as time progressed.

One of the instances that I can remember pretty closely is I was coming back from Korea.

The Air Force flew me from Kimpo, Korea, to Travis Air Force Base in California.

We landed at Travis and I caught a Greyhound bus home to Detroit.

Our first stop was Reno, Nevada.

Now, I had a two-hour layover in Reno.

So I said, "Well, Reno's got the casinos "and gambling."

- Gambling.

(Stephen chuckles) - "I think that I'll go to a casino "with my two hours and see what it's like."

I had never been to a casino before.

I had never seen a casino before.

So I went to one of the larger casinos.

I went in, and the first thing that I heard was, "Hey, boy, where are you going?"

I didn't stop because I wasn't a boy.

- Yeah, you figured they weren't talking to you, right?

- And not only that, that's not my name.

So I took a few more steps.

And this gentleman that must have been seven foot tall to me, since I'm not that tall, said, "Where do you think you're going?"

I said, "Well, I'm gonna look over the casino "and maybe place a few bets."

He said, "No, you're not."

I said, "Why?"

Then he did the magic thing.

He mentioned the N-word and he says, "You N's are not welcome in the casinos in Reno.

"Leave."

I left.

Now walking back to the bus station, I thought.

I said, "I just left a war zone risking my life "to save the United States.

"I'm a man, not a boy.

"And this is the welcome that I receive."

That's something that I'll always remember.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Always remember.

I spent 23 years in the Air Force.

Later on in my career, I cross-trained and became an airborne loadmaster on C-141 type aircraft.

C-141, in case you don't know, is a large cargo aircraft, right.

- It's a big cargo plane.

- And some of the things that I remember is flying back from Vietnam with a quarter of that plane filled with containers which contained the human remains of servicemen that had been killed in Vietnam.

And they are the heroes.

They're the ones that we should be thinking about today on Veteran's Day.

I also had the opportunity to go on the Honor Flight.

The Honor Flight is a volunteer organization.

They don't use taxpayers' money or government money.

It's all contributions.

And the purpose of the flight is to take veterans to Washington DC to let them see the museums and the monuments that are dedicated to the veterans in remembrance of those who fought in the wars.

And it was a very moving, very moving experience.

- Yeah, I'm sure.

- Especially to go to the Vietnam Wall.

- Yeah, I'm sure.

- I have several friends that are on the wall.

- Who are on the wall, yeah.

- And that was a very, very moving experience.

We visited all of the monuments which started at Fort McHenry.

- Yeah, it's in Baltimore.

- Fort McHenry is where the British were going to invade the United States.

From there, we went to the U.S.

Army Museum and we were housed at the Baltimore Hilton, 186 of us.

We went to the National Cemetery in Arlington, Arlington National Cemetery, and visited the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.

This was a moving experience.

- And it's amazing that you are still having these experiences now.

Given your long service, you know, the things that you did so long ago that you still are experiencing these very moving moments that have to do with service.

- These are things that never leave us.

And I think every veteran has memories.

Memories, some that they wanna forget and some that they don't wanna forget.

And they have good and bad.

- Yeah.

You were part of the Nurse Corps.

And that brings in a whole other set of experiences.

Because women have not always been equally treated members of the military either.

Talk about what kinds of experiences you had as a pioneer really in that space.

- Yes, you are so right, Steve.

I am a person who was born in 1928.

Lots of people look at me now and they say, "Well, you were born before Christ."

(Stephen laughs) And I often tell them, "At least say Moses, not before Christ."

(Stephen laughs) However, I've had struggles along with obligations.

And I have weathered, so-called, weathered the storm.

And I started off in Virginia where I received my nursing, Registered Nurse License.

And this was in the '40s.

However, it was a school called Hampton Virginia Dixie Hospital.

It was segregated.

And when I say segregated, we had a few, a couple of Black nurses as instructors.

But most of our instructors were white and of German nature.

And so I did get more involved in the surgical aspect.

That was where my interest.

However, because of certain rules, even our dialect had to be changed.

Because Virginia was one of those states that believed in segregation, which means it was a difference between the classes of people.

And when I went for the surgical classes in the operating room, and I encountered from one of my German instructors.

And she had asked me to do some technique.

And my response to her was, "Yes, Miss Gammage."

And she grabbed me by the back of my gown in the operating room, snatched me back.

I think if I hadn't have been tiptoe, I would have probably fallen.

However, her problem was, I said, "Yes, Miss Gammage."

And she blurted out, "You don't say yes to me.

"You say yes ma'am to me."

And I changed my subject to her and said, which was a whole new subject, "I don't say yes ma'am to my parents, "so I'm not gonna say it to you."

So I was put on probation and did not receive my nursing cap because of that incident.

Moving on, I did graduate from Hampton Virginia.

My first job that I had after graduating in Virginia, I was working at a hospital.

And I was informed by some of the Black nurses who was already at this hospital, "Bring your food in a bag."

And I had questioned it, but I did go and bring my food in a bag.

After I got there, we were at a table that consisted of nine Black nurses.

But we could see at a distance a glass-paneled room that had steam coming out of the tables.

And those were for the white nurses and white doctors.

However, the nine Black nurses, we had a small room.

It wasn't no tablecloth.

And we were eating out of a bag.

So I had a discussion with my father and I asked him, "What's going on?

"What's happening?"

And he just said that, "You know, that's the way Virginia is."

I didn't understand it.

Even though I had been a Virginia resident all of my life, I didn't know anything about the prejudice of separation of races.

However, he says, "I can't help you, "so the best thing for you to do is to move on."

Of course, I saw him drop a couple of large tears because it was the first time that I was leaving home and he was not able to explain to me what the situation was.

So I left and went to New Jersey.

And soon after that day, I found out that there were similar problems.

But I was so happy that I left with an open mind that race would not keep me in a baffle of hate.

My mission always, and it came from my dad... He was a nurturing father, I didn't have a mother.

And his following for us to follow was, "Always be kind.

"Know that man is a product "of the spiritual world.

"He has a heart just like you.

"Just think about being kind to people."

So I worked there for six or seven years and discovered... Some few things that happened to me there was, I had trained exchange students from Russia and Ireland, Scotland and the like.

But as they went to school, I was working 3 to 11 because I was advised, "If you work 3 to 11, you can make more money.

"And therefore, you can send it to your parents."

And so I fell for the act.

However, those students that I was training, they became my supervisors.

And I knew that that was a problem.

So moving on from that arena, I was recruited.

I was not drafted in the military, I was recruited.

And I was commissioned in Fort Jay, New York, as first lieutenant.

And I was flown to San Antonio, Texas, to follow through with my officers' training.

And that was quite an ordeal for a person coming from Virginia and didn't even know the background of her own state.

However, it was quite a learning experience.

I had my nursing background, and this is why I was chosen for the commission.

- Can you talk about the Honor Flight that you just went on?

- Yes.

Now, speaking of the Honor Flight, I am still floating in the atmosphere.

(Stephen laughs) It is really unexplainable.

The care, the altering of one's minds of taking us back through what we had experienced.

And it was like a movie being replayed.

However, it was interesting and a movie that made you feel that you had overcome.

It was taking you back through the avenues of time that I had spent in the military.

Now, most of my time, because I was a surgical nurse, was behind doors of the operating room.

So I didn't witness a whole lot of contact.

so far as prejudice.

Because we as nurses, our work was fortified by the procedure of what was needed by the soldiers who were brought into Walter Reed.

I had a wonderful experience and didn't receive prejudice at all.

Even though the Army was prejudiced at the time, I think my type of nursing kept me secluded from the problems that others would meet.

- That others had.

- Yes.

But it was an interesting experience.

And I received an honorable discharge.

- Yeah.

- I was in during the Korean War.

Thank you.

- Tony, it's amazing to hear these stories which I think a lot of people watching might think, "Well, this is all so long ago.

"It's all ancient history."

But it is not that far from any of us.

- No, it really isn't.

And I've had the honor and privilege of being the President of the Detroit Chapter for a while now.

And I'm always stunned and amazed at the stories.

I still enjoy listening to them.

This is my girl right here.

(Stephen chuckles) And it's things that people need to understand.

That's part of the purpose of the Detroit Chapter of Tuskegee Airmen.

- I mean, this is preserving their stories for people now, and especially for our children.

- To communicate and educate young and old.

Because you'd be surprised.

A lot of seniors don't understand and know what Tuskegee is all about and what they had to go through.

So we travel, we give speech engagements.

We go to schools.

And one of the things I will even quiz you about, Stephen.

You've heard of the movie "Top Gun".

- Mm-hmm.

- Okay.

What you may not have known, back in 1948, that was known as the Aerial Gunnery Competition.

At that time, the first winners of that competition were the Tuskegee Airmen.

- Wow.

- We won it first.

A lot of people don't know that.

And so, there is a trophy that is at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base that the first names on that trophy are Tuskegee Airmen.

We just lost one of the last combat pilots, James Harvey, just a few weeks ago.

He was 100.

So they're becoming few and far between, which is terrible.

That breaks my heart.

So yeah, I've enjoyed doing that.

But as you mentioned in the open, I wear a different hat also.

I'm also a Captain in the Civil Air Patrol.

We are part of the total force of the Air Force.

You have the Active Duty Force.

You have the Air Force Reserve.

You have the Air National Guard.

And then you have the Civil Air Patrol.

Our function in that group is for basic search and rescue.

We assist the Air Force and also FEMA.

We play a large part in FEMA.

During 9/11, when all airports throughout the United States were shut down, Civil Air Patrol aircraft were the only ones authorized to be in the air.

We were taking pictures of Ground Zero, hurricanes, tornadoes, floods.

We do all that work by taking aerial reconnaissance for the Air Force.

So I wear several hats.

But this one, this one brings the joy to my heart.

- Because of the meaning.

- Yes, absolutely.

So we're hoping that in this political climate, things will get straightened away so that the veterans do not suffer in all this as well as the regular armed forces, the men and women who serve right now actively in uniform home and overseas.

Because they're the ones.

These people here were the pathfinders.

They paved the way.

There is not a pilot of color in the United States right now, civilian or military, who do not owe their wings to the Tuskegee Airmen.

- Yeah, yeah.

- That's a high bar.

- Yeah, yeah.

Thanks to all three of you really for everything you've done and for being here on "American Black Journal."

- Appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

- Thank you.