♪ MUSIC REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

HELLO I'M LORENE MILLS, WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

I AM ENCHANTED TO INTRODUCE OUR GUEST, ONE OF MY FAVORITE WRITERS OF ALL TIME, SANDRA CISNEROS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>SANDRA: THANK YOU, LORENE, I DIDN'T KNOW I WAS GOING TO BE HERE.

>>LORENE: I KNOW, I KNOW, ANYTIME YOU'RE HERE.

NOW, SHE'S MOST WELL KNOWN FOR HER BOOK, THE HOUSE ON MANGO STREET , BUT SHE GOT TIME MAGAZINE' S LIST OF 100 MUST-READ BOOKS IN 2022 FOR THIS BOOK, WOMAN WITHOUT SHAME.

MY GOSH, AND THIS, I'M GOING TO SHOW THEM ALL, BUT THIS IS THE STORY FROM HER LIFE, IT'S CALLED A HOUSE OF MY OWN , AND THE LEVELS ON WHICH HOME, AND THE PEACE OF HOME, AND WHAT A HOME REPRESENTS.

DIDN'T VIRGINIA WOOLF SAY EVERY WOMAN SHOULD HAVE A ROOM OF HER OWN AND ENOUGH MONEY.

WELL, WE'RE AMPING, WE'RE UPPING THE GAME.

WE WANT YOU TO HAVE A HOUSE OF YOUR OWN, NOT DADDY'S HOUSE, NOBODY'S HOUSE, YOUR HOUSE.

>>SANDRA: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: YEAH, WHERE YOU SAY THE PEACE IS LIKE THE BEAUTY OF THE PURITY OF THE PAGE BEFORE THE POEM COMES ON IT, THAT'S WHAT I WISH FOR YOU.

>>SANDRA: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I THINK I FOUND THAT I'M 70 THIS YEAR NOW, AND THINGS ARE JUST GETTING STARTED.

I JUST FEEL LIKE I'M JUST BEGINNING TO GRASP WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO BE DOING ON THIS PLANET, SO IT'S AN EXCITING TIME FOR ME.

>>LORENE: OH YEAH, AND ALSO YOU HAVE BEEN SO ACKNOWLEDGED, I JUST HAVE TO READ A FEW OF YOUR AWARDS.

NATIONAL MEMBER OF THE ARTS FROM PRESIDENT OBAMA, TWO NATIONAL ENDOWMENT OF THE ARTS AWARDS, MACARTHUR GENIUS GRANT, THE PEN NABOKOV AWARD, THE TEXAS MIDDLE OF ARTS, OUR BELOVED LANNAN FOUNDATION LITERARY AWARD, THE FORD FOUNDATION ART OF CHANGE AWARD, LOTS OF HONORARY DEGREES, AND THEN I'VE HEARD YOU SAY BEFORE, YOU CAN LIST MY SUCCESSES, BUT WHAT I REALLY LEARN FROM IS MY FAILURES.

>>SANDRA: THAT'S RIGHT.

I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT THAT AS I WAS WALKING HERE, AND A POEM BEGAN IN MY HEAD AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ALL THE THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED TO ME.

TWICE BAPTIZED, TWICE- ONCE IN ENGLISH AND ONCE IN SPANISH, HIT BY A CAR TWICE- ONCE BY A REGULAR CAR AND LATER BY A TAXI, YOU KNOW, ALL THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED TO ME TWICE, AND WHEN I THINK ABOUT MY LIFE, SOME OF THE MOST PRECARIOUS MOMENTS HAPPENED TWICE.

BUT THOSE WHAT I CALLED EXPLODING CIGARS OF LIFE REALLY HAVE MADE ME WHO I AM, SO I'M GRATEFUL FOR MY FAILURES BECAUSE I WOULDN'T BE WHO I AM.

I GOT BACK UP AND KEPT GOING.

THERE WERE TIMES I FELT LIKE GIVING IN, BUT BEING AN ARTIST IS NOT 10 YEARS TO SUCCESS OR 20 YEARS, IT'S YOUR WHOLE LIFE.

I LIKE HOW THE JAPANESE PRINTMAKER HOKUSAI, AT 77, SAID IF I COULD LIVE FIVE MORE YEARS, THEN I COULD CALL MYSELF AN ARTIST AND I GET THAT.

I FEEL LIKE, AT 70, I'M JUST SCRATCHING THE SURFACE, I'M JUST UNDERSTANDING WHAT I'M SUPPOSED TO BE DOING AND HOW TO DO IT BECAUSE I'M LEARNING HOW TO LIVE MY LIFE.

>>LORENE: YES, YES, AND THAT IS THE GREATEST ART OF ALL.

>>SANDRA: EXACTLY.

>>LORENE: ONE OF THE THINGS, TO ME YOU REPRESENT LOVE, CREATIVITY, FREEDOM, AND FUN, AND I JUST HAVE TO, I DON'T WANT TO GET TOO SERIOUS THIS INTERVIEW BECAUSE YOU'VE DONE SOME OF THE MOST FUN THINGS THAT I'VE HEARD ABOUT.

CAN WE TALK ABOUT YOUR 60TH BIRTHDAY PARTY, WHAT YOU DID FOR FUN, YOU HAD A PUBLIC COSTUME PARTY WITH A THEME OF PASTRY.

>>SANDRA: YES, BECAUSE I ALWAYS WANTED TO JUMP OUT OF A CAKE AND I WAS 60, AND I THOUGHT, WELL, I BETTER JUMP OUT OF A CAKE NOW.

>>LORENE: WHILE YOU STILL CAN.

>>SANDRA: WHILE I CAN STILL JUMP.

SO I MADE AN OUTFIT THAT LOOKED LIKE A CAKE, AND MY SKIRT WAS THE TIERS OF THE CAKE AND THEN I HAD A BIRTHDAY CAKE THAT LOOKED LIKE MY COSTUME, WITH A LITTLE DOLL IN THE CENTER, LIKE THE ONES THAT YOU USED TO LOOK AT LONGINGLY WHEN YOU WERE A CHILD THAT YOU COULD NEVER AFFORD.

I FINALLY GOT ONE OF THOSE CAKES AT 60, AND EVERYBODY HAD TO COME AS SOME SORT OF PASTRY, AND I WORE THIS MAGNIFICENT CAKE SKIRT, WHICH IS NOW IN MY ARCHIVES AT TEXAS STATE UNIVERSITY WITTLIFF COLLECTION.

>>LORENE: YOU ALSO SAID IF YOU NEVER HAD THE BIRTHDAY PARTY YOU WANTED IT'S YOUR FAULT.

>>SANDRA: RIGHT, YOU HAVE TO THROW IT YOURSELF.

>>LORENE: YES, AND MAKE IT EXACTLY WHO YOU WANT, WHAT YOU WANT, WHAT YOU REALLY ALWAYS WANTED TO DO.

>>SANDRA: WELL, I ALWAYS SPENT MY BIRTHDAY PLEASING THE PERSON WHO LOVED ME, UNCONDITIONALLY, THAT WAS MY FATHER, AND HE ALWAYS WANTED ME TO BE IN CHICAGO.

SO, OF COURSE, AS A CHILD AND AS A YOUNG WOMAN, THAT'S WHERE I WAS.

BUT LATER, WHEN I MOVED AWAY, I STILL WAS COMPELLED TO BE HOME FOR MY BIRTHDAY ON THE HOLIDAYS BECAUSE MY BIRTHDAY IS DECEMBER 20TH.

SO IT WAS NEVER THE BIRTHDAY I WANTED, AND AFTER MY FATHER PASSED AWAY, I REALIZED, WELL, I'VE NEVER REALLY ORGANIZED A BIRTHDAY PARTY FOR ME.

SO NOW I JUST LOOK FORWARD, I'M GOING TO HAVE A WONDERFUL BIRTHDAY PARTY FOR MY 75TH.

MY 70TH JUST PASSED, AND IT WAS A BLAST AND THE 75TH, THE THEME IS BUSBY BERKELEY, AND EVERYBODY HAS TO MAKE SOMETHING OUT OF PAPER OR PAPIER-MÂCHÉ.

THAT WOULD BE IN A BUSBY BERKELEY MOVIE, WON'T THAT BE FUN?

>>LORENE: OH, THAT WOULD BE WONDERFUL.

WELL, WHILE WE TALK ABOUT BIRTHDAYS AND THESE WONDERFUL CELEBRATIONS, WONDERFUL BIRTHDAY CAKES, ALL THESE THINGS, HOW HAS YOUR WORK CHANGED OVER TIME, BECAUSE YOU WRITE ABOUT AGING SOME OF YOUR POEMS ARE SO EVOCATIVE OF THE BENEFITS AND RISKS OF AGING AND YOU TALK ABOUT HOW THE BODY KIND OF SHAPESHIFTS AND WHAT YOU'VE LEARNED FROM AGING, GIVE US THE PROS AND CONS.

>>SANDRA: WELL, I THINK THAT WHEN YOU AGE, I FEEL THAT THERE'S THIS CONSPIRACY TO NOT WARN YOU ABOUT THE BREAKDOWN OF ORDINARY THINGS, LIKE, WHEN YOU WERE YOUNG, YOU COULD JUST EAT ANYTHING AND WHEN YOU GET OLDER, YOU HAVE TO WATCH, OH I CAN'T EAT THAT, OH I HAVE FOOD ALLERGIES.

BUT NOBODY EXPLAINS TO YOU THAT THAT'S NORMAL, THAT THAT'S PART OF AGING, IT JUST COMES AS A SURPRISE AND YOU THINK, IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH ME?

I WISH THAT THERE WAS MORE COMMUNICATION AND HONESTY, ELDERS TALKING TO YOUNGER PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT TO EXPECT, JUST LIKE WHEN WE TELL CHILDREN WHAT TO EXPECT WHEN THEIR BODY CHANGES AND THEY BECOME ADOLESCENTS, WE DON'T HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

I THINK BECAUSE OUR SOCIETY IS SO AFRAID OF AGING AND DEATH, BUT WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT DEATH EVERY DAY.

IT SHOULD BE SO MUCH A PART OF LIFE, SO THAT WE'RE MORE MINDFUL IN THE PRESENT MOMENT.

THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I FIND AND MAYBE BECAUSE I LIVE IN MEXICO, I LIVE IN SAN MIGUEL DE ALLENDE, I FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE TALKING ABOUT DEATH.

I'VE GOT A WONDERFUL BOOK BY ANNE TASHI SLATER, LIVING IN THE BARDO, THAT'S JUST ABOUT THAT, ABOUT HER TIBETAN CULTURE AND BEING VERY AWARE AND VERY PRACTICING DISCUSSING DEATH AND LOOKING TO DIE IN A WAY WITHOUT FEAR.

AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD PRACTICE BECAUSE WE ALL PRACTICE DIFFERENT THINGS IN OUR LIVES, DIFFERENT STAGES, AND I DON'T THINK THE TRANSFORMATION, THE GRADUATION FROM THIS LIFE TO THE NEXT, IS ONE THAT WE SHOULD BE FEARFUL OF.

BUT IT SEEMS THAT OUR NATION AND EUROPEAN CULTURES ARE TERRIFIED, I FEEL A CALMNESS AND A STATE OF ACCEPTANCE IN THE INDIGENOUS CULTURES, ESPECIALLY THE ONE I LIVE IN, MESOAMERICA, THAT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE I WANT TO PRACTICE AND BE VERY PRESENT AND BECOME A BETTER WRITER, BETTER HUMAN BEING DAY BY DAY.

>>LORENE: WELL, CARLOS CASTANEDA, THE YAQUI SORCERER'S APPRENTICE, ALWAYS SAID, WELL, I WANT TO HAVE DEATH ON ONE SHOULDER ADVISING ME AND LIFE ON THE OTHER SIDE ADVISING ME.

JANE GOODALL, A DEAR FRIEND, RECENTLY PASSED AWAY AND SHE SAID, WELL, SHE SAID WHEN YOU DIE EITHER THERE'S NOTHING OR THERE'S SOMETHING AND I WANT TO GO ON THE NEXT ADVENTURE.

>>SANDRA: I FEEL IT'S AN ADVENTURE TOO.

I KNOW THAT THERE'S SOMETHING, I CAN'T CONVINCE, NOR DO I WISH TO CONVINCE ANYONE BECAUSE THAT'S NOT MY JOB, BUT EVERYBODY'S ON A SPIRIT WALK AND FOR MYSELF, AN INTUITIVE AND AS A MEDIUM, I KNOW THERE'S SOMETHING, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.

I THINK MOST ARTISTS, I THINK EVERYONE'S AN INTUITIVE AND A MEDIUM, BUT WE'RE NOT, AGAIN, AWARE OR CONSCIOUS OR TRAINING.

BUT ARTISTS HAVE A GIANT RADAR DISC, BIG SATELLITE DISC, AND IT COMES WITH OUR PROFESSION AND WE'RE ALWAYS COMMUNICATING, CHANNELING, RECEIVING MESSAGES, BEING INSPIRED.

SO TO ME, IT'S NOT A MATTER OF FAITH, IT'S A MATTER OF KNOWLEDGE.

>>LORENE: YEAH AND YOU DO TALK ABOUT THAT, THE BIG RADAR DISC THAT YOU AND YOUR INTUITION, BECAUSE YOU'RE VERY INTUITIVE AND PROBABLY AN EMPATH ALSO.

>>SANDRA: YES I AM AND THAT'S WHAT THE SUBJECT OF MY NOVEL IN PROGRESS IS ABOUT, SOMEONE WHO IS AN INTUITIVE AND A MEDIUM AND DOESN'T KNOW HE IS.

IT'S A HE AND DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO MANAGE IT, BECAUSE THAT'S HOW I FEEL.

LIKE I'M JUST THIS BABY INTUITIVE, I'VE HAD IT MY WHOLE LIFE, EVERYBODY HAS IT, BUT WE'RE NOT TRAINED TO PAY ATTENTION TO HOW TO WORK WITH IT AND HOW IT CAN HELP US.

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

THAT'S WHY IN THE SHAMANIC TRADITIONS YOU HAVE A GUIDE, THE SECRET PROTECTS ITSELF AND YOU HAVE A MENTOR OR A GURU OR, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER, WHO SHOWS YOU AS MUCH AS YOU CAN COMPREHEND.

IT CAN'T GET THE WHOLE ENLIGHTENMENT, KIND OF KNOCKS PEOPLE OUT.

>>SANDRA: I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF ABUSE AND PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTANDING THE SPIRITUAL WORLD.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU HAVE A SPIRITUAL ELDER MENTOR THAT YOU WORK WITH AND I DO.

SO I FEEL LIKE AT THIS TIME IN MY LIFE I WAS ASKED TO MOVE TO MEXICO, I ALWAYS WONDERED WHAT AM I DOING IN MEXICO.

I BELIEVE IT'S FOR THIS NEXT PHASE OF BEING THE CRONE AND COMING INTO THE KNOWLEDGE, THE MYSTICAL KNOWLEDGE I'M SUPPOSED TO HAVE FOR THIS NEXT BOOK, SO THAT I CAN PRACTICE FOR MY GRADUATION WHENEVER THAT TIME IS, AND TO LEAVE WITH JOY ON THAT NEXT ADVENTURE.

>>LORENE: THERE IS, YOU HAD MENTIONED THAT SOMETIMES THE DISCOMFORT ON THE PATH OF LIFE, YOU KNOW WHEN A POEM IS KNOCKING ON YOUR DOOR AND YOU KNOW IT'S A GOOD POEM IF IT TAKES YOU TO DISCOMFORT.

>>SANDRA: YES.

>>LORENE: YOU KNOW YOU'RE ONTO SOMETHING THEN, AND YOU WALK THROUGH THAT DISCOMFORT TO TRANSFORM IT INTO ILLUMINATION, AND THAT'S WHAT POETRY DOES.

>>SANDRA: YEAH, IT REALLY IS LIKE STEPPING ON A LITTLE PEBBLE, AND YOU'VE GOT TO GET IT OUT OF YOUR SHOE BEFORE YOU CAN KEEP WALKING.

YOU CAN'T GO FORWARD UNTIL YOU SIT DOWN AND FIND THAT PEBBLE AND WALK AGAIN, YOU CAN'T WALK WITH THAT PEBBLE.

>>LORENE: WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH SANDRA CISNEROS ABOUT HER BOOK, THE HOUSE ON MANGO STREET , BUT WHO YOU ARE, WHAT A BRILLIANT ARTIST, WRITER, POET, YOU DO SO MANY THINGS.

>>SANDRA: YEAH, I DO A LOT OF THINGS AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT I THINK IS SO AMAZING ABOUT GETTING OLDER.

YOU CAN SEE THE TRAJECTORY OF YOUR WORK FROM THE HOUSE OF MANGO STREET , TO MY LAST BOOK, A WOMAN WITHOUT SHAME , AND NOW THE NOVEL I'M WRITING NOW, INFINITO , WHICH I HOPE WILL BE DONE SOON, I'M STILL WRESTLING WITH IT.

BUT YOU CAN SEE BY LOOKING AT AN ARTIST'S TRAJECTORY HOW IT REALLY DOES TAKE A LIFETIME FOR THEM TO MASTER THEIR CRAFT AND I FEEL LIKE MY NEXT BOOK IS GOING TO BE MY FAVORITE.

>>LORENE: IT ALWAYS IS, ISN'T IT.

BUT YOU LIKE YOUR FIRST BOOK TOO, BECAUSE IT'S THE BABY.

>>SANDRA: I WASN'T THAT FOND OF MY FIRST BOOK AS MUCH AS MY PUBLIC UNTIL I STARTED COLLABORATING WITH DEREK BERMEL, THE COMPOSER, AND HE CREATED AN OPERA FROM THE BOOK.

SO NOW I'M EXCITED BECAUSE I GOT TO WRITE THE TEXT, THE LIBRETTO, SO THAT'S BEEN FUN.

WE PREMIERED IT THIS SUMMER.

>>LORENE: YES, AND I WANT TO CONGRATULATE YOU ON THAT.

THAT IS A BOLD STEP, BUT COMBINING MUSIC AND POETRY IT HITS A WHOLE OTHER PART OF CONSCIOUSNESS.

AND WHAT A GIFT, BECAUSE MUSIC CAN JUST KIND OF SLIP... >>SANDRA: MAKE IT FLY, AND THAT'S THE GREAT THING.

I'M NOT A MUSICIAN, BUT I'M A POET, SO I'M A MUSICIAN OF SORTS WITH SYLLABLES AND DEREK BERMEL IS JUST AS BRILLIANT A COMPOSER.

AND SO WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO PREMIERE IT WITH THE GLIMMERGLASS FESTIVAL THIS PAST SUMMER AND IF PEOPLE WANT TO SEE LITTLE SNIPPETS OF HOUSE ON MANGO STREET, THE OPERA, YOU CAN GO TO THE AARON COPLAND HOUSE WEBSITE AND PUNCH IN THE HOUSE ON MANGO STREET, AND IT'LL POP UP AND YOU CAN SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE AND HEAR SOME OF THE ARIAS.

>>LORENE: OH HOW WONDERFUL, HOW WONDERFUL.

WELL YOU HAVE WORKED IN SO MANY WAYS TO GET YOUR VISION ACROSS AND YOU HAD QUOTED ONCE, EMILY DICKINSON IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE POETS, AND SHE DID HAVE TO CAMOUFLAGE WHO SHE WAS, BUT SHE SAID, "TELL ALL THE TRUTH, BUT TELL IT SLANT, SUCCESS IN CIRCUIT LIES."

AND YOU ARE ABLE TO HAVE SO MANY LAYERS IN YOUR WORK THAT THE SECRET PROTECTS ITSELF IF PEOPLE ARE NOT READY ENOUGH.

>>SANDRA: BUT THE BOOK STILL GETS CENSORED, THAT'S THE THING.

I HAVE TRIED WRITING THINGS SLANT IN HOUSE ON MANGO STREET , AND THE BOOK STILL GETS CENSORED.

IT'S BEEN CENSORED IN FREDERICKSBURG, TEXAS, IN THE RIO GRANDE VALLEY, OUTSIDE OF AUSTIN, HOWEVER, IT WAS REINSTATED THANKS TO A GROUP OF PEOPLE IN TEXAS WHO OBJECTED.

I'LL BE GOING TO FREDERICKSBURG, WHERE IT WAS REMOVED, AND GIVING AWAY COPIES OF THE HOUSE ON MANGO STREET AT A BOOK FAIR ON JANUARY 17.

THAT'S WHAT WE CAN DO, GIVE AWAY BOOKS, BUY BANNED BOOKS OR READ BANNED BOOKS AND DISTRIBUTE THEM FOR FREE IN COMMUNITIES, MAYBE WHERE THEY'VE BEEN TAKEN OFF THE BOOKSHELF.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOU HAD A STATEMENT THAT JUST DELIGHTED ME ABOUT BANNED BOOKS.

YOU SAID BOOKS ARE MEDICINE AND IF IT'S NOT YOUR MEDICINE, YOU DON'T BURN DOWN THE PHARMACY.

>>SANDRA: THAT'S RIGHT.

IF IT'S NOT YOUR PRESCRIPTION, YOU PUT IT BACK FOR SOMEONE ELSE AND I GOT THAT WHOLE IDEA FROM A NEW MEXICAN POET, JOY HARJO, WHO MENTIONED BOOKS BEING MEDICINE.

AND SO I JUST TOOK THAT FURTHER BY SAYING IF IT'S NOT YOUR PRESCRIPTION, YOU PUT THE BOOK BACK.

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

AND BANNING BOOKS ACTUALLY CAN BE VERY PRODUCTIVE BECAUSE THE FORBIDDEN ENTICES PEOPLE AND SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE TWO BOOKS, ONE'S BANNED AND ONE'S NOT, AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WANT TO READ THE BANNED BOOK.

>>SANDRA: WELL, I THINK THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BANNED MY BOOK HAVEN'T READ MY BOOK BECAUSE I ALREADY TOLD THE TRUTH SLANT SO AS NOT TO OFFEND OR TO SCANDALIZE ANYONE.

AND I REALLY WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, RESPECTFULLY, TO PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE BOOKS SHOULD BE BANNED, BECAUSE I DO WANT TO HEAR, RESPECTFULLY, WHAT THEIR OBJECTIONS MIGHT BE TO MY BOOK, WHICH I ALREADY TOOK CARE OF TAKING AWAY ANYTHING THAT MIGHT OFFEND.

MY BOOKS ARE LIKE MY CHILDREN, SO TO HAVE MY BOOK BANNED IS LIKE HAVING YOUR CHILD SENT TO THE PRINCIPAL'S OFFICE.

I WANT TO KNOW WHAT HE DID, AND I WANT TO HEAR.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO, TO SPEAK TO COMMUNITIES WHERE MY BOOK HAS BEEN REMOVED, BECAUSE I, WITH ALL RESPECT, I DO WANT TO UNDERSTAND.

>>LORENE: WELL, MANY BANNED BOOK AUTHORS HAVE BEEN BANDED TOGETHER TO TALK ABOUT HOW THIS HAS AFFECTED THEM.

>>SANDRA: BUT I DON'T KNOW IF ANY AUTHORS HAVE ACTUALLY GONE TO SCHOOL BOARDS TO LISTEN.

>>LORENE: YES, WHAT'S WRONG, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH MY BOOK?

>>SANDRA: WHERE IS THE OBJECTION, BECAUSE I DON'T UNDERSTAND.

>>LORENE: YES, I THINK ONE OF THE CHALLENGES OF READERS IS THAT ONE OF YOUR PHILOSOPHIES OF WRITING THAT YOU'VE TOLD ME BEFORE IS TO WRITE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE AFRAID TO WRITE ABOUT.

DON'T WRITE ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT TO REMEMBER, WRITE ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT TO FORGET.

>>SANDRA: YEAH, I THINK A LOT OF THINGS LODGE IN OUR HEART AND WE CARRY THEM UNTIL THEY MAKE US ILL, SO IT'S IMPORTANT TO PUT IT DOWN ON PAPER SO YOU DON'T CARRY IT AROUND.

I THINK IT'S A BIT OF A CLEANSING WHEN YOU WRITE ABOUT IT, YOU DON'T ALLOW IT TO INFECT YOUR SPIRIT.

>>LORENE: YEAH, BUT THERE'S WHEN BANNED BOOK WRITERS GET TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, IT'S A CELEBRATION, WE'VE COME THROUGH, YOU KNOW.

THEY'VE THROWN THE WORST AT US, WE'RE STILL STANDING, PEOPLE LOVE OUR BOOKS, WE'RE WRITING, WE'RE CONTINUING TO WRITE, WE ARE UNSTOPPABLE.

IT'S KIND OF LIKE SQUISHING MERCURY... >>SANDRA: WELL, I THINK THE MORE YOU BAN A BOOK, THE MORE ATTENTION YOU DRAW TO IT, AS YOU SAID AND YOU CAN'T BUY THAT KIND OF PUBLICITY.

>>LORENE: YOU ARE NO STRANGER TO CONTROVERSY.

ONE OF MY FAVORITES WAS WHEN YOU WANTED TO PAINT YOUR HOUSE THE COLOR YOU WANTED TO PAINT IT.

>>SANDRA: I DIDN'T ACTUALLY MEAN TO UPSET ANYONE, ALL THESE THINGS HAPPENED TO ME, THEY'RE JUST LIKE THESE EXPLODING CIGARS.

I THOUGHT I HAD THE RIGHT COLORS AND IT WAS DURING A TIME IN MY LIFE WHEN I WASN'T PRESENT.

IT WAS A DIFFICULT TIME WHEN MY FATHER WAS DYING, LEFT IT TO SOMEONE ELSE AND I WOULDN'T HAVE MINDED CHANGING THE COLOR IF THE HOUSE HAD ALREADY BEEN APPROVED BEFORE WE PAINTED IT, BUT IT WAS AFTER WE PAINTED IT THAT WE GOT THE OBJECTION AND THAT WAS OPENING UP A CAN OF HISTORICAL WORMS ABOUT HOUSES AND THE COMMUNITY.

SO IT WASN'T MY INTENT TO UPSET ANYBODY ON THE HISTORICAL REVIEW BOARD, IT WAS AN ACCIDENT, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT WAS AN ACCIDENT ON THE OTHER HAND.

I THINK THINGS COME TO YOU BY WAY OF DIVINE PROVIDENCE AND IT TURNED OUT TO BE A VERY GOOD THING BECAUSE I STARTED RESEARCHING ABOUT HISTORIC PRESERVATION.

WHAT I LEARNED IS THAT WE WERE PRESERVING, IN SAN ANTONIO, EUROPEAN HISTORY, BUT NOT THE HISTORY OF THE NATIVE PEOPLE THAT WERE BORN IN THAT REGION OR THE MEXICAN CULTURE, IT WAS JUST THE EUROPEAN AESTHETICS.

SO THAT GOT EVERYBODY THINKING, AND AFTER A LONG TIME WE CAME TO A PEACEFUL COMPROMISE AND THE MOST IMPORTANT CHANGE IT MADE WAS ABOUT THINKING ABOUT HOW WE THINK ABOUT HISTORY.

WHOSE HISTORY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT, BECAUSE HISTORY IS A CONTINUUM, IT'S NOT JUST ONE CULTURE'S HISTORY.

>>LORENE: BUT IT'S A CONTINUUM WRITTEN BY THE VICTOR.

>>SANDRA: THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: THAT'S WHY HOWARD ZINN WROTE A PEOPLE'S HISTORY OF AMERICA , NOT THE CAPITALIST BILLIONAIRE'S HISTORY.

>>SANDRA: THE GREAT THING, TO ME, THAT HAPPENED WAS THAT THE HISTORIC REVIEW BOARD, THE MEMBERS THEMSELVES, BECAME MORE DIVERSE AND STARTED LOOKING AT HISTORY IN A DIFFERENT WAY, SO THAT WAS IMPORTANT.

BUT IT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT I PLANNED, IT WAS PURE DIVINE PROVIDENCE.

>>LORENE: WELL, THAT HAPPENS TO YOU A LOT.

>>SANDRA: A LOT.

>>LORENE: SO TELL ME ABOUT THE BIG RADAR DISK AND YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO THE PARANORMAL.

>>SANDRA: WELL, YOU KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS BEEN A MEDIUM, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW THAT AND I THINK A LOT OF ARTISTS ARE INTUITIVES OR EMPATHS OR CLAIRVOYANTS OR MEDIUMS.

THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT, SOME ARE ALL OF THE ABOVE, AND I HAVE ALL OF THE ABOVE, AND I'VE HAD THESE GIFTS SINCE I WAS A CHILD, BUT IT'S ONLY IN THE LAST FEW YEARS THAT I HAD A MENTOR TELL ME, OH THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE, YOU NEED A TEACHER TO TELL YOU, OH, YOU'RE AN ARTIST.

AND THIS MENTOR TOLD ME, WELL, YOU ARE A MEDIUM AND I DIDN'T WANT TO BE A MEDIUM, BUT SHE SAID YOU ALREADY ARE.

AND THAT EXPLAINS A LOT, BECAUSE I THINK THAT WE ARE ALL BORN WITH INTUITIVE GIFTS.

WHEN WE'RE CHILDREN, WE ALL LOVE TO DRAW, WE ALL LOVE DANCING, WE ALL LOVE THE ARTS BECAUSE THE ARTS OPEN US TO THINGS WITH A SPIRIT.

AND AS CHILDREN, WE'RE ALL EMPATHS, WE CAN COMMUNICATE WITH DOGS AND TREES AND CLOUDS.

AND ARTISTS ARE JUST CHILDREN THAT NEVER GREW UP, THAT KEEP COMMUNICATING WITH DOGS AND CLOUDS AND TREES.

SO I THINK WE ALL HAVE THIS GIFT BUT WE AREN'T TAUGHT HOW TO LISTEN TO IT UNLESS WE COME FROM A CULTURE THAT HAS VERY ANCIENT ROOTS THAT COULD TEACH US HOW, GRANDMOTHER, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT HAS THE GIFTS OF CLAIRVOYANCE AND SAYS WHAT DID YOU DREAM, PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR DREAMS AND TEACHES HOW TO PRACTICE YOUR INTUITION.

>>LORENE: THERE HAVE BEEN RECURRING WAVES OF INTEREST IN MEDITATION JUST TO STOP AND LISTEN AND THERE CAN BE MAGIC MANTRAS AND ALL THAT STUFF, BUT IF YOU JUST CALM YOUR MIND.

>>SANDRA: THAT'S WHAT I'M LEARNING, THAT I HAVE TO WAKE UP AND MEDITATE AND GO TO SLEEP AND MEDITATE BEFORE I SLEEP SO I CAN DO MY BEST CREATIVE DREAMING AND PROBLEM SOLVING.

I WISH I'D KNOWN THAT EARLIER, BUT I'M LEARNING IT JUST IN TIME.

>>LORENE: WELL, IT IS FOUNDATIONAL IN YOUR WORK.

>>SANDRA: YES, IT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M WRITING ABOUT IN THIS NOVEL RIGHT NOW.

IT'S ALSO LIKE, AT 70, I TELL EVERYONE I'M ON MY MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR, LIKE THE BEATLES, IT'S A MAGICAL TIME OF ME TAPPING IN AND UNDERSTANDING, OH, OKAY, I HAVE THIS GIFT, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE IT, BUT IF I WRITE ABOUT IT, IT'LL BE A WAY FOR ME TO SIT WITH IT AND CHANNEL AND LEARN THROUGH WRITING HOW TO CONTROL THIS GIFT AS OPPOSED TO IT CONTROLLING ME.

>>LORENE: WELL, ONE OF THE BIGGEST GIFTS YOU CAN GIVE YOURSELF IS TO ESTABLISH A PLACE, A HOUSE OF YOUR OWN, WHERE YOU CAN DO THAT, WHERE YOU HAVE MADE THE TIME AND THE SPACE INVIOLATE.

THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO, AND DON'T YOU WISH SOMEONE COULD HAVE SAID THAT TO US WHEN WE WERE LITTLE.

>>SANDRA: YOU NEED A HOUSE OF YOUR OWN INSTEAD OF WHEN YOU GET MARRIED AND HAVE CHILDREN.

AND I DON'T TAKE THAT AWAY FROM MY COLLEAGUES WHO HAVE GONE THAT ROUTE BECAUSE A LOT OF THEM ARE ARTISTS TOO, BUT THAT WAS NOT MY ROUTE.

I COULDN'T AFFORD TO HAVE MY SELF, I COULDN'T AFFORD TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF UNTIL I WAS 40 YEARS OLD.

IT WAS A DIFFICULT BECOMING.

>>LORENE: BUT YOU HAVE LITTLE FOUR-LEGGED BABIES.

>>SANDRA: I DO, I RESCUE ANIMALS.

I HAVE TO SAY ONE OF THE THINGS I LIKE ABOUT NEW MEXICO AND WHY I CONSIDERED POSSIBLY LIVING HERE WAS THE GREAT REGARD FOR THE ANIMALS AND AT ONE TIME WHEN I LIVED IN THE STATES, I HAD LIKE SIX OR SEVEN DOGS, AND THREE CATS, AND TWO PARROTS.

AND NOW I ONLY HAVE FOUR DOGS, BUT ONE DAY I WILL RALLY AND HAVE A BIG DOG AGAIN WHEN I HAVE MORE SPACE, PERHAPS MY NEXT HOUSE OF MY OWN.

I HAVE TO LIVE WITH ANIMALS, THEY JUST NOURISH ME LIKE A BOUQUET OF FLOWERS.

>>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.

>>SANDRA: I DON'T WANT TO HAVE CAGED BIRDS, I LIKE TO HAVE THEM IN THE SKY, BUT I HAVE TO BE NEAR ANIMALS BECAUSE THEY HELP ME IN THE WORK THAT I DO.

THEY'RE VERY PATIENT AND SIT NEXT TO ME FOR HOURS WHILE I'M WORKING.

>>LORENE: YEAH, IT'S FUNNY, DR.

JANE GOODALL, KNOWN FOR HER WORK WITH CHIMPANZEES, HER FAVORITE ANIMALS WERE DOGS AND FOR HER 90TH BIRTHDAY, SHE INVITED 90 DOGS TO COME AND CELEBRATE HER BIRTHDAY.

AND IT WAS ALL TAIL WAGGING, IT WAS JUST BEAUTIFUL.

>>SANDRA: I CANNOT IMAGINE HAVING 70 DOGS IN MY HOUSE, I HAVE TWO CHIHUAHUAS, AND THAT'S ENOUGH.

TWO CHIHUAHUAS CANNOT DEAL WITH ANY OTHER DOGS, EVEN THE OTHER TWO THAT LIVE WITH THEM.

BUT THAT'S A GREAT, THAT MUST HAVE BEEN A GREAT PARTY.

>>LORENE: YES, IT WAS.

SHE WAS VERY HAPPY.

>>SANDRA: WELL, AT LEAST IT WASN'T SEVENTY, HOW MANY, 90, AT LEAST IT WASN'T 90 MONKEYS.

>>LORENE: NO, NO.

OH MY GOSH.

I LOVE TALKING TO YOU.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS SANDRA CISNEROS, EVERYONE KNOWS HER.

THE GROUNDBREAKING.

HOUSE ON MANGO STREET .

THIS IS ANOTHER BOOK I HIGHLY RECOMMEND, A HOUSE OF MY OWN.

OH, I CAN'T STOP, I'LL JUST DO ONE MORE.

THIS IS WOMAN WITHOUT SHAME.

>>SANDRA: THIS IS MY FAVORITE.

>>LORENE: THIS IS CALLED MARTITA, I REMEMBER YOU .

>>SANDRA: THIS IS MY FAVORITE PERSON.

>>LORENE: TURN IT AROUND BECAUSE... >>SANDRA: FLIP IT AROUND, AND IT'S MARTITA TE RECUERDO IN SPANISH AND IT'S MY FAVORITE OF ALL MY BOOKS.

>>LORENE: WELL, I ALSO LOVE THIS VERY SWEET BOOK, HAVE YOU SEEN MARIE?

>>SANDRA: YEAH, THIS IS THE BOOK I GIVE TO PEOPLE WHEN THEY ARE GRIEVING AND I DON'T KNOW HOW TO COOK, SO THIS IS WHAT I GIVE PEOPLE.

AND THIS HAS AN EPILOGUE OF HOW TO HELP YOURSELF WHEN YOU'RE GOING THROUGH A DARK NIGHT OF THE SOUL.

SO I LOVE THIS BOOK BECAUSE I KNOW IT HELPS PEOPLE TO NOT TO FORGET, BUT HOW TO HONOR AND LIVE ALONGSIDE A DEATH.

>>LORENE: THANK YOU, SANDRA CISNEROS, FOR JOINING US TODAY.

>>SANDRA: THANK YOU LORENE.

>>LORENE: AND I'M LORENE MILLS, I'D LIKE TO THANK YOU, OUR AUDIENCE, FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

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