REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO A DYNAMIC EXCITING EDITION OF REPORT FROM SANTA FE BECAUSE OUR GUEST IS SANDRA CISNEROS, HONESTLY, YOU ARE ONE OF MY FAVORITE AUTHORS OF ALL TIMES, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>>SANDRA: THANK YOU, I THINK I HAVE BEEN HERE ABOUT FIVE OR SIX TIMES, RIGHT?

>>LORENE: IT'S TRUE, OUR FIRST SHOW WAS IN 2009 BUT YOU KEEP WRITING BETTER AND BETTER BOOKS AND I HAVE TO HAVE YOU BACK.

>>SANDRA: I HOPE SO, THANKS.

>>LORENE: WELL, THE NEW BOOK THAT WE ARE CELEBRATING TODAY IS CALLED WOMAN WITHOUT SHAME , AND I WANT YOU TO TELL ME ABOUT THIS COVER AND THEN WE WILL GO THROUGH SOME OF YOUR OTHER BOOKS.

YOU CATAPULTED INTO INTERNATIONAL FAME, THIS IS THE TWENTY-FIVE ANNIVERSARY EDITION OF THE HOUSE ON MANGO STREET , I THINK MOST PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN THROUGH AN AMERICAN HIGH SCHOOL OR JUNIOR HIGH GOT TO READ THIS BOOK.

YOU ALSO WROTE WOMAN HOLLERING CREEK THIS DELIGHTFUL BILINGUAL EDITION OF MARTITA, I REMEMBER YOU, THE OTHER SIDE IS IN SPANISH, FOR THOSE OF YOU LANGUAGE LEARNERS.

LOOSE WOMAN IS ANOTHER ONE.

THIS IS ONE OF YOUR MASTERPIECES, CARAMELO , EXTRAORDINARY NOVEL AND A COLLECTION OF STORIES FROM YOUR LIFE CALLED A HOUSE OF MY OWN .

THESE ARE FASCINATING TO READ, AND YOU HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR YOUR HOME FOR SO LONG AND YOU FOUND IT.

>>SANDRA: YES.

>>LORENE: AMAZINGLY, INTERNALLY.

>>SANDRA: I HAVE, I THINK THAT IS KIND OF WHERE WE ALL WIND UP.

IT IS WHERE WE STARTED BUT WE NEVER COULD... >>LORENE: THAT IS WHAT T.S.

ELIOT SAID, TO FINALLY ARRIVE WHERE YOU WERE ALL ALONG AND TO RECOGNIZE THAT AT LAST, THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.

>>SANDRA: YES, EXACTLY.

>>LORENE: SO THIS NEW BOOK WOMAN WITHOUT SHAME, ALREADY YOU HAVE MADE THE TIME MAGAZINE LIST OF THE 100 MUST READ BOOKS IN 2022.

SO, THERE ARE TWO OTHER BOOKKEEPING THINGS I HAVE TO DO - YOUR AWARDS AND THEN I AM GOING TO LET YOU TALK.

YOU WERE GIVEN BY PRESIDENT OBAMA THE NATIONAL MEDAL OF THE ARTS, WAS THAT THE SAME THING AS THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE ARTS OR IS THAT ANOTHER GRAND PRIZE.

>>SANDRA: NO, YES.

>>LORENE: THE MACARTHUR GENIUS GRANT, THE PEN/NABOKOV AWARD IN INTERNATIONAL LITERATURE, THE TEXAS MEDAL OF ARTS, OUR BELOVED LANNAN FOUNDATION GAVE YOU ONE OF THEIR LITERARY GRANTS.

THE FORD FOUNDATION ART OF CHANGE AWARD, HONORARY DEGREES, SO MANY OF THEM, DID I MISS ANY BIG ONES?

>>SANDRA: THE TWO NEAS, ONE IN POETRY AND ONE IN FICTION.

>>LORENE: SO THERE WERE TWO NEAS.

>>SANDRA: NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE ARTS WHEN I WAS VERY YOUNG, YES.

>>LORENE: AND YOU ARE A WOMAN WHO ALWAYS GIVES BACK.

YOU FOUNDED TWO NONPROFIT ORGANIZATIONS.

>>SANDRA: YES.

>>LORENE: THE MACONDO FOUNDATION AND ONE FOR YOUR DAD, THE ALFREDO CISNEROS DEL MORAL, DID I SAY IT RIGHT?

>>SANDRA: YEAH.

AND I RECENTLY JUST GOT THE POETRY FOUNDATION'S RUTH LILY POETRY PRIZE ALONG WITH TEN OTHER POETS, INCLUDING LOCAL POET, ARTHUR SZE.

>>LORENE: OH HOW WONDERFUL.

>>SANDRA: YEAH, THAT JUST HAPPENED LAST MONTH.

>>LORENE: HOW WONDERFUL.

WELL SO YOU HAVEN'T WRITTEN A POETRY BOOK IN 28 YEARS.

>>SANDRA: I WAS WRITING POETRY ALL ALONG I JUST WASN'T PUBLISHING POETRY.

>>LORENE: DID YOU REALLY KEEP THEM UNDER YOUR BED?

>>SANDRA: WELL, I SAY THAT METAPHORICALLY, THEY WERE UNDER THE BED.

BECAUSE I WAS THINKING OF EMILY DICKINSON AND HOW SHE WROTE AHEAD OF HER TIME AND DIDN'T PUBLISH AND LITERALLY KEPT THEM UNDER THE BED.

BUT I THINK THAT SHE GAVE ME DIRECTION ABOUT WRITING POETRY THAT IT WAS ESSENTIAL FOR ME TO WRITE IT, BUT NOT ESSENTIAL FOR ME TO PUBLISH, BECAUSE I GET MY PUBLISHING THRILL THROUGH THE PROSE AND POETRY IS VERY PRIVATE FOR ME.

I NEED TO KNOW THAT WHAT I AM THINKING, I DON'T HAVE TO SHOW IT TO ANYONE, IT KEEPS ME FROM CENSORING MYSELF.

>>LORENE: YES, YES AND THIS BOOK IS SO FULL OF LOVE AND CREATIVITY AND AGING AND FREEDOM AND FUN, BUT IT IS VERY HONEST AND VERY RAW, YOU ARE TRULY A WOMAN WITHOUT SHAME WRITING THIS BOOK.

AND SO I KNOW YOU HAVE TO BE A LITTLE BIT CAREFUL WHEN YOU DO PUBLIC READINGS AND I AM GOING TO ASK YOU TO READ ONE OR TWO POEMS AND I WILL LET YOU CHOOSE THEM FOR THAT REASON.

BUT THE FUN THING IS SO DELIGHTFUL TO ME BECAUSE, CAN WE TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU DID ON YOUR 67TH BIRTHDAY, WAS IT THE 67?

>>SANDRA: I KEPT THEM... >>LORENE: WHICH ONE WAS WITH THE CAKE?

>>SANDRA: OH, THAT WAS WHEN I TURNED 60.

>>LORENE: YOU TURNED 60.

SO YOU SAY TO PEOPLE, TO ME, "IF YOU NEVER HAD THE BIRTHDAY PARTY YOU WANTED, IT'S BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T MAKE IT HAPPEN."

AND SO YOU MADE THIS WONDERFUL BIRTHDAY PARTY HAPPEN, TELL US ABOUT IT.

>>SANDRA: WELL, YOU KNOW, WHEN I WAS YOUNGER, I ALWAYS HAD TO SPEND ALL MY BIRTHDAYS IN CHICAGO BECAUSE MY FATHER WANTED ME TO BE THERE.

SO WHEN HE CROSSED, I DECIDED TO THROW THE PARTY I ALWAYS WANTED.

SO WHEN I TURNED 60, I DECIDED WHAT WAS ON MY BUCKET LIST.

AND I THOUGHT ABOUT THAT AND I SAID, I WOULD LIKE TO JUMP OUT OF A CAKE.

SO I MADE MYSELF A CAKE SKIRT, I HAD IT MADE FOR ME AND IT WAS LIKE A GIANT PINATA SKIRT THAT I WORE SO THE WHOLE NIGHT I LOOKED LIKE I WAS JUMPING OUT OF A CAKE.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>SANDRA: AND EVERYBODY HAD TO COME DRESSED AS PASTRY.

>>LORENE: I JUST LOVE THAT.

WHAT DID THEY COME AS, A CUPCAKE OR... >>SANDRA: OH PEOPLE CAME AS CHOCOLATE CHIP COOKIES AND SOME PEOPLE TOOK IT A LITTLE BIT FARTHER AND STRETCHED IT, CAME AS BANANA SPLITS, NOT EXACTLY A PASTRY BUT THAT WAS OKAY.

PEOPLE DRESSED AS DIFFERENT THINGS, IT WAS FUN.

>>LORENE: WHAT A WONDERFUL THING AND WAS IT ON THE PUBLIC SQUARE?

>>SANDRA: IT WAS IN A RESTAURANT AND THEN WE ALL MARCHED DOWN TO THE PUBLIC SQUARE IN SAN MIGUEL, WHERE WE STARTLED AND AMUSED THE BYSTANDERS.

>>LORENE: AND THERE WAS ALSO MARIACHI MUSIC.

>>SANDRA: THERE WAS MARIACHIS BECAUSE THEY ARE ALWAYS THERE EVERY EVENING AND YOU KNOW THEY PERFORMED AND PEOPLE DANCED WITH US, IT WAS A LOT OF FUN.

>>LORENE: WELL, I JUST LOVE IT, BECAUSE I SAW THE PICTURES OF YOU AND THE CAKE AND I THOUGHT, OH THAT IS JUST GREAT.

YOU ALSO SENT I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE LUCKY ENOUGH TO GET THIS, ONE DAY IN THE MAIL I GOT A LITTLE BOX AND IT LOOKED EXACTLY LIKE THE COVER OF MARTITA .

I THOUGHT GOOD A LITTLE POCKET VERSION OF THE BOOK AND I OPENED IT UP, IT WAS THE MOST WONDERFUL CHOCOLATE.

IT WAS SUCH A SURPRISE AND SO GENEROUS AND SO MUCH FUN.

>>SANDRA: WELL, THANK YOU FOR ALL THE SUPPORT THROUGH THE YEARS.

I WANTED TO THANK YOU, YOU'VE BEEN SO SUPPORTIVE.

>>LORENE: WELL LET'S JUST KEEP DOING THIS.

YOU ARE REALLY ON A ROLL WITH WRITING.

>>SANDRA: I HOPE SO, THESE POEMS HAVE BEEN LIKE ON THE BACK BURNER FOR 28 YEARS.

I DIDN'T EXPECT THAT I HAD SO MANY POEMS, LOOK AT HOW MANY POEMS THOSE ARE.

>>LORENE: I KNOW.

>>SANDRA: AND THEN THE TRANSLATION BY MY FRIEND AND FELLOW POET, LILIANA VALENZUELA, YOU KNOW THEY ARE EXCELLENT JUST IN SPANISH IF YOU READ IT IN SPANISH AND THAT IS YOUR FIRST LANGUAGE THEY DON'T SOUND LIKE TRANSLATIONS AND THAT MEANS THAT IS A GOOD TRANSLATION.

>>LORENE: THAT'S A REALLY GOOD TRANSLATION.

>>SANDRA: YEAH IS REALLY GOOD BECAUSE LILIANA VALENZUELA IS A POET.

>>LORENE: SO SHE KNEW.

BECAUSE I MUST TELL YOU THAT THIS COVER, THIS WOMAN HOLLERING CREEK , WAS NOT WELL TRANSLATED BECAUSE IN SPANISH IT WAS EL ARROYO DE LA LLORONA , AND WE ALL KNOW WHO LA LLORONA IS, SHE IS NOT SOME WOMAN HOLLERING - SHE'S OUT TO GET YOU, BE CAREFUL.

SO I THINK IT COULD HAVE BEEN A MORE CULTURALLY... >>SANDRA: WE WANTED IT TO RESONATE WITH LA LLORONA TOO, BECAUSE I THINK WOMAN HOLLERING REALLY COMES FROM LA LLORONA, IT JUST GOT LOST OVER THE AGES AND TRANSLATION.

>>LORENE: YES, AND IT IS NOT WHAT WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT HEARING HER.

>>SANDRA: YEAH, THAT IS JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE FROM THE SOUTHWEST, YOU KNOW.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>SANDRA: YOU KNOW THAT.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

>>SANDRA: BUT THIS COLLECTION I AM VERY EXCITED ABOUT.

IT HAS ONLY BEEN OUT SINCE SEPTEMBER 13 AND WE ARE GOING INTO OUR THIRD PRINTING.

>>LORENE: OH, I AM SO GLAD, I AM SO GLAD.

BECAUSE THE IMMEDIACY AND THE RAWNESS AND THE HONESTY ABOUT SO MANY THINGS.

THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS YOU FOCUS ON BUT AGING, YOU SAY THAT NOBODY REALLY TELLS US THE TRUTH ABOUT AGING.

YOU HAVE SO MANY POEMS ABOUT AGING IN HERE AND I AM WONDERING FOR YOURSELF HOW HAS YOUR WORK CHANGED AS YOU HAVE AGED?

>>SANDRA: WELL, I THINK THAT MY POEMS ARE BRAVER BECAUSE I DIDN'T EXPECT TO PUBLISH THEM, I DON'T THINK ABOUT THE READER.

I THINK THAT I SURPRISED MYSELF BY THE THINGS I THINK.

BUT I THINK WOMEN THINK THINGS THAT WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO THINK.

YOU KNOW, THEY ARE JUST TOO AFRAID TO SPEAK THEM OUT LOUD AND I DIDN'T WANT TO BE ASHAMED ABOUT ANY PART OF GROWING OLDER OR ANY PART OF MY LIFE AT 67 I AM ABOUT TO TURN 68 NEXT MONTH.

AND I DON'T WANT TO BE ASHAMED BECAUSE I FEEL AS HUMAN BEINGS WE ARE ASHAMED BY SO MANY THINGS THAT LIMIT US AND MAKE US ILL BECAUSE WE CAN'T LET THEM OUT.

AND POETRY IS ABOUT GOING INTO THOSE PLACES THAT ARE TABOO FOR US AND EXPLORING AND REALLY CLEARING OUT YOUR DEMONS AND CELEBRATING THINGS THAT MAYBE ONLY YOU WANT TO CELEBRATE.

IT IS SUCH A PRIVATE ACT AND SO NECESSARY WHEN WE ARE GOING THROUGH DIFFICULT DARK TIMES AS WE ARE NOW AS A COLLECTIVE, AS A NATION, AS A GLOBAL COMMUNITY.

THIS IS THE TIME WHEN PEOPLE ARE FEELING, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE UNREST, CIRCLING LIKE DOGS TRYING TO GET COMFORTABLE WHEN THEY SLEEP.

WE REALLY HAVEN'T BEEN GUIDED BY ANY LEADERS TO SAY, "OKAY, STOP EVERYTHING.

LET'S USE THIS LOCKDOWN TO GO INTO A SPIRITUAL RETREAT AND EXAMINE WHAT WE ARE FEELING AND WHY WE ARE AFRAID AND ALL THE EMOTIONS THAT ARE OVERCOMING US AS A POPULATION DURING THE PANDEMIC AND POST PANDEMIC."

YOU KNOW I HAVE TRAVELED THE LAST THREE MONTHS OVER SOME OF THE MAJOR CITIES AND IT IS DEVASTATING TO SEE HOW DAMAGED WE ARE AND THAT DAMAGE IS NOT ONLY EXTERNAL IT IS INTERNAL.

AND WE JUST HAVEN'T BEEN GUIDED TO WRITE POETRY WHICH IS SO ESSENTIAL RIGHT NOW, WHEN WE ARE LIVING WITH HEARTS BROKEN OPEN IN TWO.

I HAVE A POEM "GOD BREAKS THE HEART AGAIN AND AGAIN UNTIL IT IS STAYS OPEN."

>>LORENE: YES.

>>SANDRA: I THINK THAT IS WHERE WE ARE AS A COMMUNITY.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE SO WOUNDED WE ARE HOBBLING ABOUT WITH THE OPEN HEART.

AND WHEN WE WRITE, WE HAVE TO WORK VERY HARD TO GET TO THAT OPEN HEART STATE.

BUT WE ARE THERE ALREADY, WE SHOULD BE USING THIS SENSITIVITY TO EXAMINE OURSELVES AND BE KIND TO OURSELVES AND FORGIVING TO OURSELVES AND TO WRITE POETRY.

BECAUSE POETRY IS THE MOST DIFFICULT, THE MOST HONEST AND THE MOST TRANSFORMATIVE MEDICINE I KNOW.

>>LORENE: YOU OFTEN SPEAK ABOUT DISCOMFORT, THAT YOU NEED TO GO WHERE THE DISCOMFORT IS.

THAT'S WHEN YOU KNOW YOU ARE ON TO SOMETHING, AND YOU HAD SAID AT ONE POINT THAT YOU KNOW IT IS A GOOD POEM IF YOU IT TAKES YOU TO THAT PLACE OF DISCOMFORT.

AND WALKING THROUGH THAT DISCOMFORT TRANSFORMS IT INTO ILLUMINATION.

TA DA, THAT IS WHAT POETRY DOES.

AND YOU DO THAT TIME AND AGAIN IN SO MANY OF THESE POEMS BECAUSE YOU TAKE ON SOME TOUGH TOPICS.

>>SANDRA: ONE OF THE GREAT SPIRITUAL TEACHERS FOR ME IS THE VIETNAMESE MONK, THICH NHAT HANH, WHO DIED THIS YEAR.

AND HE TALKS ABOUT LIKE MEDIATION BEING A COMPOSTING OF WHEREVER WE ARE AND WE JUST POUR OUT WHEREVER WE ARE AND WE COMPOST IT AND WE COMPOST IT OVER TIME, WE DON'T SCOLD OURSELVES IF OUR EMOTIONS ARE NEGATIVE OR DESTRUCTIVE, WE JUST ALLOW OURSELVES AND WE ARE KIND TO OURSELVES AND WE ALLOW OURSELVES TO FEEL DEEPLY UNTIL WE COMPOST THOSE EMOTIONS AND FROM THAT COMPOST A LITTLE WHITE FLOWER WILL GROW.

AND TO ME, THAT PRECISELY WHAT THE WRITING PROCESS IS ABOUT, THAT I BEGAN FROM MY LITTLE PETTY FEARS OR ANGRY EMOTIONS OR ENVIOUS OR WHATEVER I FEEL AND I JUST COMPOST IT LONG ENOUGH UNTIL SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL GROWS FROM IT.

AND WHEN THAT LITTLE WHITE FLOWER SPROUTS AND I THINK, "WHOA" THAT'S WHEN I KNOW TO STOP, THAT I'M DONE.

SOMETIMES THAT TAKES YEARS, SOMETIMES IT TAKES A LIFETIME.

>>LORENE: YOU HAD TALKED ABOUT YOUR OWN MEDITATION PRACTICE AND IT IS SO BEAUTIFUL, CAN YOU SHARE A LITTLE ABOUT.

>>SANDRA: I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS REALLY MEDITATION BUT IT IS HOW I GET IN THE ZONE.

I THINK WHATEVER GETS YOU INTO THE ZONE IS VALID, SO FOR ME, WHEN I MEDITATE I ALWAYS CONCENTRATE ON SOMEONE WHO HAS PASSED AWAY AND IS IN THE SPIRIT WORLD WHO LOVES, I DON'T WANT TO SAY LOVED BECAUSE LOVE CONTINUES, LOVES ME UNCONDITIONALLY.

AND TO ME LOVE NEVER DIES, YOU CAN STILL FEEL IT IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE AND IF YOU PICK UP THE PHONE BECAUSE A LOT OF US RECEIVE IT AND DON'T PICK UP.

SO WHAT I DO IS I CONCENTRATE ON SOMEONE IN THE SPIRIT WORLD WHO LOVES ME UNCONDITIONALLY AND I PUT THEIR FACE ON THE MOON, I LIKE TO DO THIS UNDER A FULL MOON ESPECIALLY AND I JUST KIND OF INHALE THAT MOONLIGHT INTO MY HEART AND THEN I EXHALE THAT LOVE BACK BECAUSE YOU'RE REALLY JUST EXCHANGING LOVE WITH THE BREATH UNTIL IT CALMS YOU.

YOU CAN DO THIS 5, 50, 555 TIMES UNTIL YOU ARE CALM AND IT JUST PUTS ME IN THE ZONE OF LOVE AND CALMNESS AND I JUST WANT TO BE THERE.

I JUST WANT TO STAY THERE, IT IS JUST SO GREAT.

IT HELPS ME BEFORE I SPEAK, BEFORE I WRITE AND SOMETIMES I WILL ATTACH IN A LITTLE MESSAGE IF I HAVE AN INTENTION I WANT TO WRITE WITH HUMILITY TODAY.

I WANT TO HONOR ALL MY ANCESTORS, IN THE WORK THAT I AM DOING.

AND AS SOON AS YOU PUT FORTH THAT INTENTION OF HONORING YOUR ANCESTORS, YOUR EGO GETS OUT OF THE WAY AND THAT'S IS THE BIG CHALLENGE WHEN YOU WRITE, HOW CAN I GET MY BIG FAT EGO OUT OF THE WAY.

THEN YOU CAN ASK TO DO WORK THAT HONORS YOUR ANCESTORS.

>>LORENE: WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH AUTHOR SANDRA CISNEROS AND YOU HAVE CERTAINLY PUT YOUR EGO OUT OF THE WAY.

>>SANDRA: IT'S SCARY.

>>LORENE: YES, BUT YOU DESCRIBE SOME OF YOUR EXPERIENCES KIND OF WITH THE PARANORMAL.

>>SANDRA: YES, YOU KNOW NOW THAT I AM OLDER, I KNOW I CAN TALK ABOUT THIS AND NOT BE ASHAMED.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>SANDRA: I REALLY AM A WOMAN WITHOUT SHAME ABOUT DISCUSSING THE SPIRIT WORLD AND EXPERIENCES I HAVE HAD.

YOU KNOW MY BROTHER DOES NOT BELIEVE IN SPIRITS BECAUSE HE HAS NEVER SEEN ONE AND I FEEL SORRY FOR HIM BECAUSE IT IS SO WONDERFUL WHEN YOU HAVE ONE BECAUSE YOU ARE NEVER AFRAID OF DYING.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>SANDRA: YOU KNOW, IT'S SO GREAT, I JUST FEEL LIKE, YOU KNOW, OKAY.

HE HASN'T EXPERIENCED IT AND NO MATTER WHAT I SAY, HE WILL NEVER BELIEVE ME AND THAT IS FINE.

WE ARE EACH ON OUR OWN SACRED PATH AND I KNOW WHAT I KNOW AND I CAN'T UNKNOW IT, I CAN'T CONVINCE HIM.

THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD EXPERIENCES WITH THE SPIRITUAL WORLD, THE WORLD OF THE SPIRIT, WHETHER IT'S A SPIRIT OF THE TREE OR A CLOUD OR A PERSON, AN ANIMAL SPIRIT, WILL KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT AND THOSE WHO HAVEN'T IN THIS LIFETIME, PROBRECITOS .

I FEEL SO SORRY FOR YOU THAT THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO, I'M NOT HERE TO CONVINCE YOU.

>>LORENE: BUT THANK YOU FOR BEING A WARRIOR AGAINST SHAME ON EVERY LEVEL.

>>SANDRA: I'M TRYING.

>>LORENE: IMAGINE WHY WOULD PEOPLE WANT YOU, US, TO BE ASHAMED OF HAVING A CONNECTION.

>>SANDRA: YOU KNOW, LORENE, THE MORE I MEET PEOPLE AND THE MORE I TALK ABOUT MY EXPERIENCES WITH THE SPIRITUAL WORLD, WITH THE SPIRIT WORLD, MORE PEOPLE TELL ME, "OH I HAVE THAT, TOO."

ESPECIALLY OLDER WOMEN BUT THEY HAVE BEEN MADE TO FEEL ASHAMED ABOUT TALKING ABOUT IT OR BEING CONSIDERED A LOCA , YOU KNOW SO THAT DON'T WANT TO TELL ANYONE.

BUT IT IS SO GREAT, YOU KNOW, I LIKE LIVING IN MEXICO BECAUSE I CAN TALK ABOUT THESE THINGS AND MEXICO IS A CULTURE WHICH I CALL THE FIRST WORLD OF SPIRITUAL LEARNING.

I CAN GO THERE AND TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT EXPERIENCES I HAVE HAD AND IT IS PERFECTLY NORMAL.

>>LORENE: I CERTAINLY AGREE WITH YOU.

BUT ONE OF YOUR FIRST VOICES THAT YOU HEARD WAS THE ONE CAME TO YOU OUT OF THE BLUE THAT SAID, "YOU ARE NOT YOUR HOUSE."

>>SANDRA: YEAH.

>>LORENE: AS WE SEE IN THIS WONDERFUL BOOK, A HOUSE ON MANGO STREET.

>>SANDRA: YES AND IT HAPPENED IN MEXICO.

>>LORENE: EXACTLY.

>>SANDRA: YOU KNOW I HAD THOSE MESSAGES, I DON'T KNOW WHO SENDS THEM AND THEY NEVER COME IN SPANISH OR ENGLISH, THEY ARE JUST ARE MENTAL MESSAGES.

I'VE HAD THEM BEFORE IN MY LIFE LIKE THREE OR FOUR TIMES.

BUT THAT WAS A BIG ONE THAT CHANGED THE COURSE OF MY LIFE AND MADE ME MOVE TO MEXICO AND GIVE UP MY LIFE IN SOUTH TEXAS.

SO I GUESS I MUST HAVE DETOURED OFF MY PATH, SOMEBODY SAID WE HAVE GOT TO WAKE HER UP.

>>LORENE: RIGHT.

>>SANDRA: SHE'S GOING WAY OFF COURSE, LET'S GET HER BACK.

>>LORENE: ONE OF THE RESULTS OF THAT WAS AS YOU SAY, YOU HAVE A BIG RADAR DISH.

>>SANDRA: I DO.

>>LORENE: SO NOW YOU ARE OPEN TO PICKING UP ALL SORTS OF THINGS.

>>SANDRA: YEAH, ANIMALS, THAT'S WHY I RESCUE LOTS OF ANIMALS BECAUSE I CAN FEEL THEIR FEAR AND THEIR JOY AND THEIR PAIN.

I CAN'T WORK AT AN ANIMAL SHELTER OR I WOULD GO HOME WITH 12 DOGS EVERY DAY, SO I CAN'T DO THAT.

BUT, I CAN SUPPORT THE ANIMAL SHELTERS IN WAYS THAT MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR THEM TO DO THAT WORK.

>>LORENE: ANOTHER WAY YOU SUPPORT THE WORLD, YOU DO A LOT OF TEACHING.

>>SANDRA: I DO, I TRY.

>>LORENE: AND I HAVE WATCHED YOU IN ACTION WITH JUNIOR HIGH AND HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS.

>>SANDRA: YEAH.

>>LORENE: AND YOU TELL THEM, AND THEY HAVE NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THIS, BUT YOU SHOULD WRITE ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE AFRAID TO WRITE ABOUT.

TO NOT WRITE ABOUT WHAT YOU WANT TO REMEMBER BUT WHAT YOU WANT TO FORGET.

>>SANDRA: YES, BECAUSE WRITING IS ABOUT HEALING YOURSELF.

AND THERE ARE SO MANY THINGS THAT LODGE IN OUR HEART THAT WE WISH WE COULD FORGET AND THE WAY FOR ME, THAT I HAVE LEARNED HOW TO TRANSFORM THOSE DEMONS IS TO WRITE ABOUT THEM.

NOT ALL THE DEMONS WE ARE ABLE TO ERADICATE FROM THE HOUSE OF OUR HEART BY OURSELVES AND SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO GET SPECIAL PROFESSIONAL HELP FROM A THERAPIST TO HELP US DEAL WITH SOME OF THE BIGGER DEMONS.

BUT FOR THE MOST PART IN MY LIFE, I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO IT ALONE AND WHEN I HAVEN'T, I HAVE LEARNED THAT IT IS OKAY TO GO SEE A THERAPIST TO HELP ME AND THAT HAS BROUGHT ME BACK TO A BALANCED HEART WELL-BEING.

>>LORENE: ANOTHER THING I KNOW THAT'S HELPED YOU WAS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN ON THIS PATH WITH ANOTHER GREAT POET, JOY HARJO.

>>SANDRA: OH YES.

>>LORENE: THE INTRODUCTION TO THIS, THIS BOOK.

>>SANDRA: DID YOU READ THAT?

>>LORENE: I CERTAINLY READ IT, I CERTAINLY DID, OF COURSE.

>>SANDRA: JOY WAS LIKE A BIG SISTER TO ME.

>>LORENE: BUT YOU WERE HERE FOR THE SANTA FE LITERARY FESTIVAL AND YOU AND JOY DID A THING, BECAUSE YOU HAD BEEN YOUNG POETS, UNKNOWN, AT THE IOWA WRITER'S WORKSHOP IN IOWA, FOR POETRY AND YOU FELT LIKE YOU WERE BOTH OUTSIDERS.

>>SANDRA: WE WERE, I WAS 20 GOING ON 21, SHE WAS MAYBE 24.

>>LORENE: AND SHE COULD DRIVE, SHE HAD A TRUCK, SHE HAD KIDS.

>>SANDRA: SHE HAD A TRUCK, SHE HAD KIDS, SHE KNEW HOW TO MAKE COFFEE, I DIDN'T KNOW ANY OF THOSE THINGS.

I WAS JUST LIKE AN ESCUINCLA AND I WAS LIKE TOTALLY IN AWE THAT SHE COULD DO ALL THESE THINGS THAT I COULD NOT DO.

SO SHE SEEMED NOT MY PEER, SHE SEEMED LIKE AN ELDER AND SHE OPENED A PATH FOR ME.

>>LORENE: YOU WERE COMPA�ERAS .

>>SANDRA: NOW WE ARE.

>>LORENE: YOU ARE TRAVELING TOGETHER, SHE HAS BEEN OUR POET LAUREATE FOR QUITE A WHILE.

>>SANDRA: YEAH.

>>LORENE: BUT WHEN YOU DESCRIBE FINDING EACH OTHER AT THAT WORKSHOP WHICH WAS JUST, YOU KNOW, YOU MADE THEM READY FOR WHO YOU WERE.

BUT WHEN YOU FIRST GOT THERE, IT WAS THE MIDDLE OF IOWA AND IT WAS LIKE.

>>SANDRA: WELL, YOU KNOW, WE WERE NOT LOOKED AT SERIOUSLY BACK IN 1976.

SO NOW WHEN I SEE WHERE JOY HAS ARRIVED, YOU KNOW SHE WAS THE POET LAUREATE FOR A COUPLE YEARS AND WHERE I'VE ARRIVED, I ALWAYS TELL JOY, ISN'T THIS LOVELY POETIC JUSTICE.

>>LORENE: POETIC JUSTICE, THAT IS WHAT IT IS.

>>SANDRA: IT MAKES ME LAUGH.

I KNOW THAT PEOPLE WHO WERE OUR CLASSMATES WHO DIDN'T THINK WE WOULD EVER AMOUNT TO ANYTHING MUST BE GRINDING THEIR TEETH.

I THINK POETRY IS THE BEST REVENGE.

>>LORENE: I THINK SO, I THINK SO.

YOU DO A LOT OF TRAVELING AND I KNOW IT IS HARD FOR YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE YOUR PUPPIES AT HOME, YOUR DOGS.

>>SANDRA: I FEEL LIKE, I CALL IT THE CIRCUS CISNEROS BECAUSE I TRAVEL HEAVY, CARRYING LOTS OF GIFTS FROM MEXICO AND BRINGING THINGS BACK, SO I AM ALWAYS WITH THESE SUITCASES ON WHEELS, NEVER WITH ONE, SEVERAL, AND SO IN MY HEAD I HEAR THIS CALLIOPE MUSIC WHEN I CHECK IN AND OUT OF A HOTEL.

AND I DO IT ALL BY MYSELF LIKE A LITTLE BURRO.

I AM THINKING THERE HAS GOT TO BE AN EASIER WAY BUT I HAVEN'T FOUND IT YET.

>>LORENE: IN ONE OF YOUR INTERVIEWS YOU TALKED ABOUT IT WOULD BE NICE TO TRAVEL WITH SOMEONE, JUST TO HELP.

>>SANDRA: IT WOULD BE.

>>LORENE: I'M AT THAT POINT TOO.

>>SANDRAS: YOU CAN PHYSICALLY DO IT BUT THEN AFTERWARDS YOUR BACK HURTS, YOUR ARMS HURT, YOU HAVE TO GO SEE THE CHIROPRACTOR, YOU NEED A HOT TUB.

SO I THINK NEXT YEAR, I AM GOING TO START INVITING SOMEONE TO GO WITH ME TO HELP ME, HIRE SOMEONE, BECAUSE IT IS GETTING HARD AND OUR BODIES ARE NOT AS RESILIENT AS WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER.

>>LORENE: YEAH, YEAH.

SO MAYBE, IT'S SUCH A GIFT WHEN YOU TRAVEL TO PLACES LIKE YOU WERE HAVING A READING HERE WITH MARGARET RANDALL.

>>SANDRA: I ASKED IF MARGARET RANDALL WOULD BE MY COLLEAGUE ON STAGE BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE WITH LEVI ROMERO AND ESTEVAN RAEL GALVEZ AND I HAVE BEEN HERE WITH CARMELA PADILLA ON STAGE, SO THERE HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT PEOPLE THAT I HAVE ASKED.

THIS TIME I ASKED MARGARET RANDALL.

I THOUGHT FOR THIS BOOK WE NEEDED A POET AND WE NEEDED SOMEONE WHO HAS A LONG VIEW.

>>LORENE: SHE HAS A LONG VIEW, SHE HAS WRITTEN SO MANY BOOKS AND SHE HAS STUDIED SO MUCH.

SHE IS REALLY ONE OF OUR LEADING INTELLECTUALS IN THE STATE, AND WITH A SOUL OF A POET.

>>SANDRA: AND WITH A BICULTURAL EXPERIENCE OF HAVING LIVED IN MEXICO AND TRAVELED TO LATIN AMERICA.

I JUST THOUGHT THAT SHE WAS THE IDEAL PERSON TO INVITE TO BE ON STAGE.

>>LORENE: PLUS HER LITERARY MAGAZINE, EL CORNO EMPLUMADO , IS THAT THE NAME OF IT?

>>SANDRA: YES.

>>LORENE: SHE PUBLISHED UNKNOWN PEOPLE, SHE WAS THE VOICE FROM THE WHIRLWIND SAYING, "LOOK AT THIS."

>>SANDRA: YEAH, SHE DID THE BEST REVIEW OF CARAMELO , EVER THAT ANYONE EVER DID BECAUSE SHE WAS SO IMMERSED IN THE AMERICAS - NORTH AND SOUTH, BOTH AND SO IT WAS A GREAT REVIEW, I AM SO HAPPY.

WE'D LOST EACH OTHER FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, WE HAVE BEEN OUT OF TOUCH AND SO HAPPY TO BE IN TOUCH WITH HER AGAIN AND TO SHARE THE STAGE WITH HER.

>>LORENE: YES.

WE ARE ALMOST OUT OF TIME, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A POEM THAT YOU WOULD CHOSE TO READ.

>>SANDRA: I WOULD BE HAPPY TO READ A POEM FOR YOU.

>>LORENE: THE ONE THAT I WOULD LIKE IS TOO LONG TO READ, THE ONE ABOUT I NEVER WANTED, YOU BETTER NOT CALL IT A POEM... >>SANDRA: WE WOULD GET CENSORED IF I READ THAT HERE.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>SANDRA: BUT I WILL READ ONE THAT LEVI ROMERO REMINDED ME OF.

I WROTE AN EMAIL FOR POET LEVI ROMERO AND HE TOLD ME THIS IS EMAIL IS A POEM, I SAID REALLY, I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.

AFTER A QUOTE FROM MY FATHER.

"THE FLOORS ARE STICKY WITH GOLDEN LEAVES, THE DOGS AND I TRACK IN ON THE SOLES OF OUR FEET.

WINTER CLOTHES NEED TO BE BROUGHT DOWN, MAKE THE BED, COMB HAIR, WASH THE BODY, SLEEP.

TOO MANY TO-DOS POSTED ON MY NOSE.

CHECK BANK BALANCE, STOP AT VET, PICK UP SPRAY FOR FLEAS.

NONE SAY 'LOOK AT THE MOON, WRITE POETRY.

TAKE YOUR TIME MIJA, TAKE YOUR TIME.'"

>>LORENE: OH, WE ALL NEEDED THAT, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

SO CAN YOU FOLLOW THAT DICTUM NOW IN THIS PERIOD OF TIME?

>>SANDRA: WHEN I DON'T, PEOPLE QUOTE MY FATHER AND TELL ME, "TAKE YOUR TIME MIJA."

WHICH IS SO LOVELY BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT MEANS MY FATHER'S VOICE SURROUNDS ME, LIKE HIS LOVE EVEN NOW.

>>LORENE: YES, AND IT'S THE BEST GIFT FOR ALL OF US.

>>SANDRA: I LOVE IT WHEN PEOPLE QUOTE MY FATHER WHO NEVER MET HIM.

>>LORENE: RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT AND YOU ARE STILL IN TOUCH WITH YOUR SEVEN BROTHERS.

>>SANDRA: I HAVE SIX BROTHERS.

>>LORENE: SIX BROTHERS AND YOU WERE THE... >>SANDRA: RIGHT, I HAVE SIX BROTHERS AND I AM ONE OF A FAMILY OF SEVEN.

AND THEY ARE ALL IN CHICAGO WHERE MY TOUR WILL END AND SO I WILL SEE SOME OF THEM.

I NEVER GET TO SEE ALL, BUT IF I SEE THREE OUT OF SIX, I AM LUCKY.

>>LORENE: OH GOOD, GOOD, GOOD.

WELL THAT IS YOUR ROOTS, I MEAN THAT IS WHERE MANGO STREET WAS AND THAT LAUNCHED YOU INTO THE STRATOSPHERE.

I AM SO GRATEFUL.

SO IN THE SPIRIT OF YOUR FATHER, WE HAVE TAKEN OUR TIME, IT HAS BEEN LOVELY HAVING YOU.

>>SANDRA: THANK YOU, LORENE >>LORENE: OUR GUEST TODAY IS SANDRA CISNEROS.

I WANT TO JUST DRAW ATTENTION TO YOUR NEW BOOK, WOMAN WITHOUT SHAME .

THIS IS... >>SANDRA: THIS IS IT IN SPANISH.

MUJER SIN VERGUENZA.

NOT "MUJER SINVERGUENZA" BUT MUJER SIN VERGUENZA >>LORENE: YES, IT IS SUCH A POWERFUL GIFT BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH SHAME ABOUT SO MANY THINGS AND YOU FREE, THIS IS LIBERATING, ILLUMINATING.

>>SANDRA: I AM STILL WORKING ON IT, LORENE.

I THINK WE SLAY ONE SHAME AND ANOTHER ONE POPS UP, RIGHT?

>>LORENE: IT IS TRUE, THE MANY HEADED HYDRA.

OUR GUEST TODAY IS SANDRA CISNEROS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>>SANDRA: THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING ME TO BE HERE.

IT IS ALWAYS FUN.

>>LORENE: IT IS ALWAYS FUN.

AND I AM LORENE MILLS, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR AUDIENCE FOR JOINING US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM