Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by viewers like you.

>>Nash: This week on New Mexico in Focus, we dig beneath the campaign trail with the incumbent and one of his top tier challengers in the race for Albuquerque mayor.

>>Uballez: I think there█s a lot of issues that we are not seeing transparency on.

And we█re not seeing service to the city and the people of Albuquerque.

>>Keller: We just got to continue the path and not go backwards.

Then our reporter heads north to chat with three candidates for the soon to be vacant Santa Fe mayor's office.

And we bring you a primer on that city's ranked choice voting system.

New Mexico in Focus starts now.

Thanks for joining us this week.

I'm Nash Jones.

It is local election season though we haven't quite hit the point where your airwaves and mailboxes are flooded with ominous ads condemning the opponent of one politician or another.

Last week we ran through three questions with two of the lower ranked candidates in Albuquerque's mayor's race.

There's seven candidates in that contest and eight in Santa Fe's.

So to make a call about who would get more substantial in-studio interviews versus shorter conversation in the field, we factored in fundraising, excluding any contributions that candidates made to themselves, along with ballot petition signatures.

To suss out the candidates with the most and the least support among voters this week, our reporter Cailley Chella wrangled three of the lesser known candidates in the race for Santa Fe Mayor.

For quick chats in the shadow of the Plaza obelisk.

What's left of it anyway.

And speaking of the city different those of you in the capital do local elections a bit differently.

The system is called ranked choice voting, and even if you've heard of it, there's a decent chance you've got some questions.

I know I did, so I sat down this week with Santa Fe County Clerk Katherine Clark for a primer and to get her thoughts on whether ranked choice voting would work statewide.

But we begin this week with a couple of the candidates for Albuquerque mayor who qualified for in-studio interviews, Mayor Tim Keller and former U.S. attorney for New Mexico Alexander Uballez who are both on the more progressive end of the crowded field.

You'll hear from Uballez in about 15 minutes.

On November 4th Keller is asking voters for an unprecedented third consecutive term as mayor.

There's weighty issues facing the city, from a swelling unhoused population to a long troubled police department to residents wary of frustratingly high crime rates.

We did our best to explore it all with the incumbent.

>> Nash: Mayor Tim Keller, thanks so much for joining us.

If you are reelected, you would serve an unprecedented third consecutive term as Albuquerque's mayor.

Eight years, which you've served is a long time.

What's left to finish?

>> Keller: You know, there is so much, and we are making real progress on long standing generational challenges, especially with respect to home, homelessness and crime.

And so that's why we need a little more time.

And I think it's that sustained effort of doing the hard work every day that is critical right now because these are such tough times.

And so, two examples would just be, when I came in, we had no system that actually helped the homeless.

From a city perspective, our answer was get on a bus and go to a nonprofit.

And we took care of zero people every night.

This was a problem in Albuquerque now for decades.

And then when you layer in national trends about fentanyl and our housing crisis, of course, it's just gotten worse.

But we were building a system from scratch that is the gateway system, and it's about two thirds done.

And we want to see that through.

Similarly, crime I mean, when I came in the department was literally falling apart.

We had hundreds of officers leaving -- a consent decree.

So we said we're going to fight crime differently.

We're going to use technology.

We're going to use civilians.

Now we finally have crime going down in every category.

But we have a long way to go.

But we know it's working, and that's why I want to keep doing that, to make sure that we we finish and we follow through on this deep change that we've been working so hard on.

>> Nash: As you mentioned, crime is going down.

What would you say to Albuquerque residents who say they feel less safe than when you took office in 2017?

>> Keller: First, I would -- just understand that, I probably feel the same way in a sense that, the difference between perception, is that it just trails, the actual crime statistics.

So, you know, I'm looking at a situation where we've had crime going up for ten years, and now, thanks to civilians and technology, it's finally going down.

But that just started last year.

And so, I believe that if we continue that for another couple of years, we will all feel safer.

So, we just got to continue the path and not go backwards.

But I agree right now it still hasn't -- the perception hasn't caught up with the statistical reality.

And that's normal, and expected.

>> Nash: Okay.

Keeping with crime and policing, the 11 year Consent Decree -- the Department of Justice oversight over the Albuquerque Police Department ended this year.

You wrote at the time, “after years of hard work, we've defied the odds and delivered.” What did the Consent Decree deliver?

What did APD in your administration deliver?

>> Keller: No one thought we could actually do it.

First off, like actually getting out of the Consent Decree, we were one of the faster cities in the modern era to even do that.

And the reason why we did that is because we decided to actually do the real change that would last.

So there's, three big things that are different.

Number one, the department holds itself accountable.

They still mess up, right?

That's a different thing.

But now, because the officers superintendent reform that I created, they actually discipline officers.

They fire officers.

And so there is that self-correcting mechanism that's a huge change.

The other one is that we're rebuilding the ranks.

We always knew we had an officer shortage.

And you see that now changing because of the confidence in the department.

And the third thing is, that now we know, that individuals will be held accountable, but also systematically, technology has been a huge difference-maker because when you do things like have gunshot detection and you're reading license plates and you're using databases to connect up with gunshot shell casings, to actually catch folks and put them in jail when they shoot someone.

Our department is now capable of that again.

Like, our department functions in the way that it was not before, both for internal accountability but also for crime fighting.

>> Nash: Okay.

Despite all of the reforms that happened under the Consent Decree, Albuquerque officers still killed people at the highest rates of any major metro area last year.

That would be, 14 per 1 million residents.

How is that what reform looks like?

When when people talk about not feeling safe?

What role do police officers play in that?

>> Nash: Reform was about making sure that when there is a wrongful use of force, officers are held accountable.

Reform was not about reducing the number.

Now, we want those to go together, right?

We all want less violence in either way, whether it's an officer being the perpetrator or not.

But the challenge is -- that's really driven by crime, fentanyl, violence on our streets, guns on our streets, and the difference is; is the officer using constitutional policing?

And that's what's -- >> Nash: If those are all constitutional uses of force.

Why is Albuquerque stand out above the rest of the large metros like -- why are numbers so high?

Why are our officers killing more people?

>> Keller: Three reasons.

Guns, more prevalent here than almost anywhere else.

Narcotics, which is also been a longstanding challenge.

And the third reason is Domestic Violence.

So, we have crime challenges that drive officers feeling -- unfortunately, that they have to use constitutional use of force.

So, those two issues, it's like a Venn diagram, like they overlap, but they're also distinctly different.

>> Nash: Meanwhile, seven Albuquerque police officers have pleaded guilty to federal charges in a decades-long corruption and bribery scheme, getting APD's Internal Affairs in order was part of the Consent Decree as well.

So, how can corruption like this take place in a reformed department?

>> Nash: Well, as you mentioned, this took place under, I think, four different mayors, like six different Police Chiefs.

>> Nash: Decades-long.

>> Keller: Yeah, the difference is, when did it stop?

Under my administration.

We were actually capable of dealing with all those officers you said seven.

We have let go of 30 officers that we know of -- >> Nash: Seven have pleaded Guilty.

>> Keller: Right, but I'm saying we're even way ahead of that.

We had 30 officers out of the department because of this issue before the feds even went to court.

That is a department that's accountable.

Doesn't mean it doesn't have problems.

It means it can deal with its problems.

And that is something that it could█nt have done for the last 30 years.

>> Nash: Do any of those include the Internal Affairs officers that are charged with doing this work?

>> Keller: Absolutely.

There's at least five I can name off the top of my head.

>> Nash: All right.

There have been some mixed messages, some questions about the future of Police Chief Harold Medina If you're reelected, will you continue to have him as your police chief?

>> Nash: I'll be looking for a new police chief next year.

And he knows that and I've known that for some time, and I've been really clear on that.

So, that's the game plan going forward.

We'll have a new police chief next year -- I think, no matter what.

>> Nash: Let's let's shift to homelessness and housing.

Since you first took office in 2017, the number of unhoused people in Albuquerque, at least those that we're aware of, according to the point in time count, has more than doubled.

Why?

>> Keller: The number one reason is, fentanyl.

And the second reason is our housing shortage.

So, when you combine those two issues together, you have addiction -- Literally, they█re keeping people on the street or pulling them onto the street.

And then we've seen rents go up almost by 50%.

So, of course, people are also getting priced onto the street.

That█s why the solution has to involve addressing all of those issues.

I mean, you've got to do an all of the above approach to both the causes, all the way through to more housing.

So, it's challenging, but that's the kind of real work.

I mean, that's the deep change that we've been doing.

We're not saying there's just one answer to any of these issues, but, it's also a national trend.

And so, it that makes it even harder because I mentioned our own challenges at the city that we've had for decades that we have now really, rebuilt or built a system to try and deal with that.

But also, you have a national trend where it's going up.

The last part of that is the Community Safety Department You know, creating that, we're the only city in America that actually has social workers trying to get people into housing and get people into treatment through the 911 system.

And that is tremendous, we've got to keep that going.

>> Nash: You've got all these investments, these efforts, could you see those numbers starting to fall in your third term?

>> Keller: We know that when we started, the city took care of zero people.

In terms of getting them help and off the street.

Zero!

And now we know we take care of a thousand every night in the gateway system, and we have a path in the next year to take another thousand, into help and services off the street.

Now, that still leaves probably another two thousand on the street, where you have much more serious issues around -- things like addiction and so forth.

So, we just know that if I can, take the problem and cut in half, that is major progress.

>> Nash: So, you say, Gateway, which is a spectrum of services for people experiencing homelessness, is serving about a thousand a day.

In your State of the City Address just a couple of weeks ago, you said that you hope to double that by next year.

How do you get there?

>> Keller: Yeah, it basically has to do with, we have six Gateways that we're looking at.

So, we're opening a youth -- Young Adult Gateway.

And these are -- it's like a converted hotel.

So, people can picture what that is.

But it's essentially also bed or apartments.

And so, you can count the numbers on how you get there.

So, you've got the Young Adult Gateway.

We're doing a Senior Gateway because we have so many unhoused seniors.

And then we're expanding the Housing Navigation Centers by one hundred each -- >> Nash: And what are those?

>> Keller: Those are basically, inside the Gateway Center, which is the old place on Loveless, and they█re places where people stay from 1 to 3 months and we get them housing, whether it's an apartment or whether it's a different form of housing voucher.

And so, it's basically, you know, an interim space so they can get their life organized, get medical care, and then be able to be put into stable housing.

And actually, that vote's coming up for several hundred more beds, is coming up in city council, I think this week.

>> Nash: Okay.

We can't very well talk about the Gateway Center without talking about your challenger, Alex Uballez█ records request.

He's seeking those records to answer a number of different questions.

Here's one of them, that I would like to ask you to answer.

Did your administration intentionally expose construction workers and their families who were made to work without protective equipment at the Gibson Gateway Center, service providers who were working in offices that shared HVAC systems, with the areas under renovation, as well as elected officials who were brought to tour the facility to toxic materials, asbestos and silica?

>> Keller: So, this is an old issue that has been brought up by council numerous times.

And we've responded to all of this.

So, he's literally recycling Dan Lewis's accusations.

And there's a couple things in there -- We know there were issues with the contractor.

We let go with the contractor for these reasons, and now everyone is suing everyone.

But I am 100% sure no one would ever do anything intentionally, literally to expose people.

And I also just want to mention I'm one of those exposed people.

So, I mean, just to be really clear, I have been in Gateway more than any other elected official by far.

So, I think this is really -- I mean, it█s kind of -- it's recycling Republican talking points.

And it's also -- I think it's a sad reflection of a desperate candidate, really.

>> Nash: He says that the records have not been released.

Why not release them if all the work has been done?

Council█s addressed it.

And get them out there just to clear things up for the voters.

>> Keller: They have.

So, we've responded to numerous records request, as I█ve mentioned, there are multiple court cases involved.

And, to the extent there are any hold ups, it█s just because it's all going to court and it's, you know, we have contractors and subcontractors all arguing over who's responsible.

And they should because it definitely took too long to figure it out.

I understand that, and that's why it's in court.

>> Nash: Okay.

Continuing on with your address-- the ways that you've been addressing homelessness and unhoused population, despite the Gateway Center being really -- you could say a cornerstone of your administration, the initiatives to support people experiencing homelessness in Albuquerque.

You're still sweeping encampments, where officers and sanitation workers will ask folks to move.

They've been known to throw people's possessions away.

Sometimes important possessions from blankets to important, identity documents.

What would you say to your progressive critics who say that that is an inhumane, civil rights violation?

>> Keller: Well, what you described, I'm not sure is entirely true.

So, our policy is very clear.

Everyone is offered services.

Everyone is offered transportation, and that's why we have the Community Safety Department, and everyone is offered storage.

Now, to the extent that didn't happen in certain situations, that's an accountability issue on the front line.

And I know we actually have disciplined some frontline workers who are not following that policy -- >> Nash: Who are throwing people█s stuff away >> Keller: Yeah, that's an issue and that's why we dealt with it.

But that's what the policy is.

The policy, ensures everything that you just said should not happen.

>> Nash: Okay.

>> Keller: Now, I do want to mention this.

If you are next to a school, you just cannot do that.

So, we do have we have a policy of; there is no room for folks who are literally homeless encampments next to children's programing.

And those folks are just asked to move.

They're just asked to please stay with -- and I forget the number of feet of a school or child programing.

And I think that's true.

I mean, I don't I don't think it's appropriate to have homeless camps near schools.

So, you know, people might disagree with me on that and that's okay.

But, yeah, we're not going to have homeless camps near schools.

I don't think that's right.

>> Nash: And in terms of, people accusing sanitation workers, officers of throwing their things away, that shouldn't be happening, is what you're saying, >> Keller: It should not, and I know -- there's a couple of cases when it was and they were disciplined and taken off that kind of duty.

>> Nash: Okay.

Back to the housing crisis.

Your Housing Forward initiative, which you launched in 2022, aimed to build 5000 new housing units by this year, where are you in terms of that tally?

>> Keller: We're at 2,500 that we have built as a city.

And, we think the number is about, it's even higher by 7000 or so if you include the private partners who have been doing it as well.

Now, the challenges we need 20,000 units.

So we have a long way to go, but the city has actually done.

If you look all up and down Central, we're converting these rundown hotels into housing and they're popping up and I think there's seven now up and down Route 66.

It's great to see, but we need more faster.

And that's why our follow up program is about how to incentivize all the things that we legalized, like cottages and duplexes and all -- There should be no discrimination on the type of housing that, you know, is permissible.

And I think that█s been the real zoning fight at like city council and things like that.

But we have to have housing for all.

I mean, that's what we need.

And so we continue to push on that.

But we also know that it's it takes a council vote on every one of those issues.

So we don't always win.

>>Nash: You can watch my full conversation with Mayor Keller online.

Just head to the New Mexico in Focus YouTube page.

I█m very concerned on on how Santa Fe becomes a homeless hub between Albuquerque and Espanola because of the accommodations and services.

The key things are Felons, drug addicts, and alcoholics, and afflicted.

That█s what they serve.

>>Nash: Reporter Cailley Chella will introduce you to three Santa Fe mayoral candidates in about 15 minutes.

But first, we meet a progressive challenger in the race to become Albuquerque's next mayor.

Alex Uballez was the U.S. attorney for New Mexico until President Trump asked him to step down earlier this year.

The career prosecutor is now entered politics for the first time, seeking to unseat Mayor Keller, arguing he's made all the right promises but hasn't delivered.

I sit down with Uballez much as I did with Keller to learn what he'd do differently.

>> Nash: Alex Uballez, thanks so much for joining us on New Mexico in Focus >> Uballez: Thanks for having me >> Nash: So you're notably not from New Mexico.

Your wife and her family is, but you grew up in the San Francisco Bay area.

What about your life experience?

Makes you a good fit to run the city of Albuquerque?

And what would you say to folks who think the mayor should be homegrown?

>> Uballez: Sure, I would say I'm an adopted son.

So I think I was always destined to land here in Albuquerque when I fell in love with my wife at 19 years old.

She is, you know, ninth, 10th generation New Mexican.

Her family has been here forever.

And we met in college, and we've been together for the past 20 years.

I'm just thinking the other day about how, during our first summer of 2020, 2005, I was working two jobs in the Bay area.

She was working here for this arts education nonprofit that used to be downtown.

And I quit my jobs, bought an Amtrak ticket and traveled out here to see her, because I was not in love with her.

And this is, you know, and, frankly, like, my whole career, we lived in New York.

Right?

And so I was going to law school at Columbia, and I left her there my first summer to come here and work for the Mexico attorney General's office.

And then, of course, after law school, we both came back because that same nonprofit that she she was working for that she grew up in as a kid here, called Working Classroom, the executive director called her over in New York, was like, hey, I need you to come back and run this program.

And she was like, we got to go back.

And I was like, it's fine.

I just took a bar.

I'll take a second bar and what█s a bar exam.

It's not a big deal.

We moved back here, so we've been here since 2011.

My whole professional career has been here in New Mexico and serving the people of New Mexico.

From the DA's office, there's a crimes against children prosecutor to the U.S. Attorney's office as a cartel investigator to the U.S. attorney's position.

You know, this is my home.

>> Nash: And, as you mentioned, you were most recently the U.S. attorney for the District of New Mexico, before resigning just this last February at the request of President Trump.

You told correspondent Russell Contreras on this program two years ago that that position at the time allowed you to express your abilities and your values best.

What are your abilities and values?

>> Uballez: Yeah.

So I'm the first and only attorney in my family, right, my dad is from the projects of East LA and a high school graduate.

My mom is an immigrant born in China.

Moving here when she was very young to build this family in this community.

And the strange place that we now call home.

And people like me don't get to be the United States attorney, right?

We don't get to get to go to law school for me, a path to public defense, a path to public service, you know, was was obvious.

But when I looked at the legal profession, I looked at the area of the law that I felt most needed to be changed.

It was the criminal justice system, it was a system where people who look like me, young black and brown boys are overrepresented.

And so if I truly believed in fixing that system, if I truly believe in this country and its ideals, I felt I had to take the position that would best serve those people at the end of the day.

Right?

And I love my brothers and sisters in the public defender's office and in the private defense.

But they have to fight at motions hearings, at trial, on appeal, to win a case.

A prosecutor's job, when they're doing it right, is to make the decision of whether a case advances justice before they bring it.

Make the decision about whether an investigation protects public safety before they open it.

And so for me, the values here are about following public safety, right.

As U.S. attorney, as an ADA, how do we use these tools that we have not to just arrest people and lock people up, although we did, but to actually make the public safer >> Nash: and know, some folks may see your resume as a prosecutor and think crime is going to be one of your top priorities.

It definitely is for many, Albuquerque voters, though crime rates are dropping.

Will crime be one of your top priorities if elected mayor?

>> Uballez: Absolutely.

I like t it as an ecosystem.

And I like to think of it as a broader issue that we need to deal with in a comprehensive way.

Why I'm not running for DA or for AG, although those are positions I could easily step into, is because those aren't positions that have enough tools to deal with the issues that fall to the criminal justice system, right?

So as a career prosecutor, I've seen both the worst right?

Corruption.

I've seen cartel leaders, I've seen killers, but I've also seen a lot of people, probably the majority who end up in criminal court because of poverty or because of addiction or because of mental health.

These are things that a mayor, that a city, our community, have a responsibility to solve before they fall to the criminal justice system.

>> Nash: As U.S. attorney, you prosecuted Albuquerque's DWI officers who participated in a decades long bribery and corruption scheme.

Also, the Department of Justice oversight over the APD, was lifted this year.

11 years of oversight through the consent decree.

What would you do differently than past mayors to instill a culture of accountability in our police department?

Yeah, I think the people of Albuquerque need and wants a mayor who can run a police department.

We have seen what happens when we have civilians who don't understand law enforcement and trust in law enforcement, and not pursue the needs of the community from the global perspective of public safety.

For me, that's the key, right?

So not thinking about, you know, the third of our budget that goes to APD as a policing budget, but as a public safety budget.

And what does that mean?

Right.

So we address the hard issues.

Right.

So corruption, internal, you know, problems, drug trafficking, violence with the police response.

But we address the issues that are driven by poverty and by mental health issues and by addiction with medical responses and social services.

Right.

This is all public safety.

These all bleed together.

And when I've talked with thousands of people all across Albuquerque City over the past five months, every one of them has seen, right, that we have some, you know, the crime stats that are falling, issues that our cops should be handling, and many issues that we as a city need to step up in and handle and with the issues that the cops should be handling if they're not handling them in a standup way, if they are falling short, standards and practices and, a culture that at least Police Chief Harold Medina has said has sprung up out of this accountability project with the DOJ, what should happen?

We gotta hold people accountable.

Right?

And that starts with leadership, right?

When you have rank and file who don't trust in their leadership, then they are not going to be operating on a single mission with the rest of the city towards public safety.

Right?

They will be operating on their own.

The thing that I've learned is running public servants and as a as a public servant myself for the past 15 years, is that people who sign up to do this work, not just cops, but city workers too, sign up because they love this city and especially our law enforcement.

They sign up because they will put their lives on the line for other people.

The thing that we have to give them is the support and the direction of where to use that energy and that focus And so what's big for me and thinking about accountability for police is accountability for leadership, right?

That is what drives how an agency moves.

That is what drives what the people are discontent.

That is what drives people to corruption or to simply failing their jobs when their leadership is not giving them clear direction and inspiration.

>> Nash: Has police Chief Harold Medina done that.

So I think that what I know from talking with rank and file, who I've known for 15 years, and the people of Albuquerque too, is that they've lost faith in this police chief.

I think that's critical for any departments.

Right?

It's an intangible.

It's not a thing like funding.

It's not a thing like technology.

But the leadership of a place really affects how it serves the people of the community.

And so I think when the leadership fails, we see failing agencies.

>>Nash: And if you became the ma would you replace, Chief Medina?

>> Uballez: Yeah.

>> Nash: You are seeking to unseat two term Mayor Tim Keller, who's running for reelection?

You said you started your campaign for mayor because you knew the city needed a better option than, quote, ineffective, the ineffective or the cruel.

Let's take each of those separately.

Let's start with cruel.

How has the Keller administration been cruel?

Sure.

And so I think the contrast I'm drawing here is between the ineffective of the Keller administration, who has made big promises yet failed to deliver, and the cruel proposals that has created from the other side.

So from the ineffective, you know, I think there's a lot of support for Tim Keller because he's set a lot of the right things.

These are things that are not mysterious to us.

A lot of smart people have done a ton of research across the nation to give us the answers to these big problems that we have, right?

Like the Violence Intervention program, like ACS, like, you know, Albuquerque community safety.

Correct.

Albuquerque community safety.

Like sending the correct response.

But he's been ineffective at rolling these out.

Right.

And we see that in the streets every day.

We see that these programs have not lived up to the promises.

We see that the Gateway Center, the Gateway System is not a gateway, but it's a brick wall.

People get stuck in the West Side shelter.

People get stuck in the gateway without a way up off of the streets.

And so that's ineffective.

And the people who are ready for someone who's going to deliver results.

I think the problem when you make good ideas, right, like comprehensive services and alternative police response look bad, is you make bad ideas look necessary.

That's what's happening on the other side of this debate.

People who are saying, well, we tried being nice, now let's just arrest everyone for jaywalking.

Right?

No, we tried being nice.

Let's just lock everyone up in a facility outside of the city.

So that's the cruelty.

And that's a result of are you saying the Keller administration are the ones that tried being nice?

I think that's the message that they gave to the people.

And I think the message that the people received was, well, if we tried this thing and it doesn't work, let's try the cruel thing.

And this is not a this is a reasonable conclusion to come to if you're being sold this, message about what actually happened.

The problem is we didn't implement the things we promised.

>> Nash: And now, you've mentioned a few.

Are there are there specific, places where you see the administration has been ineffective and what would you do differently?

Absolutely.

I mean, I wouldn't I wouldn't flood parks to move homeless, homeless folks out of them.

I wouldn't do daily sweeps of our streets and throw away people's identifications and their father's ashes.

I wouldn't put hundreds of workers in a center built in the 1950s that was full of asbestos, silica and mud.

>> Nash: And that's the Gateway >> Uballez: The Gateway Center.

I wouldn't say divert.

Federal funds are supposed to go to frontline workers, to folks in the administration who sit behind doors safely during Covid.

I think there's a lot of issues, that we are not seeing transparency on, and we're not seeing service to the city and the people of Albuquerque.

>> Nash: Now, the number of unhoused people that at least that we're aware of has doubled over the last few years.

The city remains far short of the number of housing units that it needs to meet the needs of the city, the demands.

How will your approach to both homelessness and housing differ from the current administration?

>> Uballez: Housing is critical.

And what has happened here.

If you look at the stats, is that as we have not been building here for years, that's why we are such a deficit when it comes to units for people to live in.

We haven't been building.

If you look at the following, the dramatic fall in the number of permits we've been issuing, and if you speak with any builder or really any small business, what you'll hear is the failures here are not in the big flashy projects, and the ribbon cuttings that we've had.

The failures are properly staffing the nuts and bolts of government that makes the city work.

That's the planning and zoning department.

But permits take forever to get out.

That means small businesses can't build.

It means we can't build residences and people places for people to live.

Inspectors are way overwhelmed and they can't make all the places that they need to be.

What that means is job sites sit unattended and that's money lost, right?

That█s time lost.

It█s to fund a government that serves the people right is to take to draw back from the t shirts and the ribbon cuttings and instead fund the people who make a city work for the people.

And so that's one of my big beliefs here is our city, you know, and any, any government agency really.

We should have a customer service mentality.

We should be getting people to.

Yes.

If you come to us with a project, hey, I want to build this great thing.

We should be saying we will handle the bureaucracy for you.

We're not going to make you an expert.

And checking all the boxes on the city forms between running between all the divisions and coming up with answers.

Your job is to follow your dreams.

Our job is to get you to yes, and to provide the staff and the coordination amongst departments to do that.

>> Nash: And if that's tackling the housing issue, what about people who are living on the streets of Albuquerque right now who, aren't accessing shelters or who, need support on the ground?

What is your solution for, getting more people into housing and getting them the support that they need?

>> Uballez: Yeah, we talked about the Gateway Center and the West Side as night one crisis responses.

Right?

Which means there isn't a you know, these are necessary, right?

Like an emergency room.

You know, in a medical I like to think about them as medical conditions.

But you break your foot, you go to the are you need that.

They're going to cast it.

You're going to walk out will be rolled out.

But that's no one is thinking that the next week, the next month they're going to go run marathons because you went to the E.R., right?

These are long term medical conditions.

We're talking about mental health and drug addiction that need long term medical responses in in order for a long term medical response to be successful, you need stability.

That's some sort of housing, transitional housing, or somewhere where you can not have to worry about your safety on the streets every day while you receive the treatment that you need to get off of the streets and into our community.

Our Gateway Center has become a dead end Our West side shelter has people who've been there for five years.

There is one and a half caseworkers, right, who handle 600 people.

They can't get out of there.

Right.

We have to build that transitional housing.

It has to be, built with wraparound services to treat the medical issues as they are, to help people get off the streets.

>> Nash: And would this be less of these large, facilities that, a lot of people are staying in together and more smaller, smaller units or what what would that actually look like?

>> Uballez: Exactly.

Right, right.

We have to be not thinking about big, beautiful buildings, but about actual practical responses, and meaningful paths out.

Right?

That is residences.

We actually have a lot of residences that need to be upgraded and retrofitted so people can live in them.

We actually have a lot of housing stock that's unused and vacant or that's dilapidated and falling apart, and the city can do a lot to rebuild and invest in these properties.

So we have places to put people where they can have this ability they need and then partner with the services that they need.

>>Nash: We appreciate Uballez coming in to talk with us about his bid for the Albuquerque mayor's office.

And just like with Tim Keller's interview, you can watch the rest of my conversation with Uballez on our YouTube page In the first of several installments covering the folks hoping to take Santa Fe Mayor Alan Webber's place in focuses, Cailley Chella introduces us to three of the lesser known candidates.

Webber isn't running for reelection, so the job is up for grabs for any of the eight candidates on the ballot.

To reiterate, our team set a threshold for who would qualify for one on one interviews based on fundraising and petition signatures.

We'll show you our conversation with the top tier candidates in this race in the coming weeks.

For now, here's Cailley in Santa Fe.

>> Cailley: I sat down with three Santa Fe mayoral candidates Letitia Montoya, Oscar Rodriguez and Jeanne O█Dean and asked them the same three questions, giving them 60 seconds to answer each.

I asked about the top issues impacting Santa Fe, including the unhoused population, affordability crisis and cultural reconciliation.

Oscar Rodriguez, thank you so much for sitting down with me today.

>> Rodriguez: My pleasure, and it█s a beautiful day for it too.

Letitia Montoya, thank you so much for chatting with me today.

>> Montoya: You█re Welcome Thank you for inviting me.

Jeanne O█Dean thank you so much for speaking with me today.

>> O█Dean: Yes >>Cailley: All right.

Let's get right into it with question number one.

How do you feel about the city's current response to the rising unhoused population, including Santa Fe's recent partnership with Urban Alchemy?

And what specifically would you change in terms of policy and strategy?

>>Montoya: Okay, so that's really important to me because I've been learning about the homeless population for the last four years.

And the thing about it is that we have shelters, but we're not, adding on, services.

So services for the individuals that do get into the shelters, but instead of just sheltering, let's come up with a plan.

And my plan is a three tier system.

So I plan on getting, getting people that want to come in the program.

And then how are you going to get them is like either when they come out of jail that we have the services and we we start getting them to the point that we get them to where that they've already accomplished a task there in.

And okay, so is getting them on to a program, getting them treated and getting them back into becoming citizens that pay taxes in our part of our community because they deserve a second chance as well.

O█Dean I appreciate that question, Cailley I actually just visited, the Urban Alchemy.

I got the house on Tuesday, just the day after someone, died of an overdose.

I met with Mike.

um, I█m I'm very concerned, how it becomes, that Santa Fe becomes a homeless hub between Albuquerque and Espanola because of the accommodations and the services they are pretty much keeping everyone inside 85.

But they're feeding 165 outside in the parking lot in the Oasis, and they're relying on youth works to feed that.

And youth work is also feeding Consuelos place as well.

So it's it's getting too much.

Their topics are, their key things are felons, drug addicts and alcohol and afflicted that's what they serve.

So okay, so the the homeless I met an elderly lady that was, in need of a home, and she couldn't find the place, and that's 60s.

Thank you.

>>Rodriguez: I'm not.

Terribly comfortable with the decision that they made to partner with Urban Alchemy.

Not, because it wouldn't bring more resources to a big problem that we have in Santa Fe.

And it's clearly a problem.

It's gotten out of hand.

I was very concerned that it was in the fashion that it was done.

It was done sort of behind the backs of the people that they had partnered with to provide those services.

And I just don't see how the city can be effective and a effective leader.

Uh given the decision that they made, and, the cities that I know of, where they have, they do a good job of this.

They actually achieve zero.

They, the city is of significant leaders.

The city provides data, provides leadership, provides very, very, specific funding and coordinates the whole effort.

And, this problem clearly needs that.

And the city should be there.

And I just think that the decision to go with the urban alchemy, they stepped away from that role.

And I think that, the problem isn't, is is not as, in hand as it used to be.

>> Cailley: Thank you.

Question number two, we see headlines all the time about the city's growing affordability crisis, which is affecting everyone from teachers to police officers.

What is your plan to make Santa Fe a place where people can both work and live?

>> O█Dean: I appreciate that question too, Cailley Fortunately, of all the candidates, I do have a multibillion dollar infrastructure and development platform that, providing affordable housing is key on that platform.

We're planning on building a thousand Pueblo Adobe homes for the essential workers, first responders, teachers.

Right now, there's my understanding.

There's about 70 to 90 teacher vacancies in the school district because the teachers cannot afford to live in Santa Fe.

They're commuting and they're substitute teacher.

So it's impacts the whole community because of the affordable housing.

So that is a commitment we're looking at purchasing, the Midtown redevelopment campus at 64 acres, converting that to a Santa Fe version of Austin City limits and develop affordable housing.

>>Rodriguez: Yes, indeed.

I believe that the housing shortage crisis that we're in is a verifiable crisis.

It's keeping our kids from being able to stay here.

Or come back to the city that they grew up in.

And raise their kids.

And that's causing people to feel that they're being displaced.

There's a lot of new people coming in, and and because of, the affordability, the lack of affordable housing, a lot of those families are, are moving away.

At least the second generations are moving away.

And then and and as a result, there's, there█s a lot there█s resentment on a part of some community about feeling displaced.

It's also affecting our economic development.

About half of the workforce has to commute in from anywhere else.

And so, we need lots more housing.

My plan is to utilize the city's more than 1000 acres of available land and infrastructure to produce a lot more buildable lots and, a lot more developable, developable land.

>> Montoya: Okay.

That is really important.

The plan that I would like to do is because there's programs out there, we have home wise, we have all these different programs.

But what's happening within the, the the requirements to get in there, there's a part in there to called A.M.I And that's how they structure who can get into these programs.

If we could raise that, it would actually get people into affordable housing, which is nurses, our city workers, any worker that lives here will be able to work here, lives here.

And that's that's an internal process that we must fix.

Also, we need to look at section eight, and, we just need someone that's going to do the job and knows the answer or has a plan for the the problem to get fixed.

how is your opinion of how the city has handled the issue of cultural reconciliation, whether it be through the Plaza Obelisk, the Kid Carson statue or fiestas?

And what, if anything, would you do differently as mayor?

>>Rodriguez: No question that the city is coming on more and more points of conflict.

Again, it's because as people come in new people come in, prices go up.

And then the people█s kids who have been here for a long time can't afford to stay, and they move on.

And so it causes a lot.

It spikes a lot of conflicts.

The obelisk is one of those.

And there's others.

In the case of Fiestas, for example, I participated yesterday and I was so happy that it it's much bigger than it was in previous years.

And so the way to to deal with that, I believe, is for people to realize and for the city leaders to to carry the message that we will all do better for each of our own interests.

if we're united, if we are able to resolve these conflicts in a way that doesn't divide us even more.

There are big questions coming, coming to us, and we'll have to be united in order to answer those questions.

>>Montoya: Well, I, I can I'm Leticia and I'm been in this, on this soil my family has, for over 17 generations.

And the thing that I've seen growing up is that as mayors come and go, they change their plan.

And as Alan Weber came in, he changed his plan.

And it seems like he does not like and respect what the culture of this city is all about.

And it seems like he's the cause.

And I think once he is gone and I replace him as the next mayor, you'll see that we'll all get back on track and get along and make sure that every culture that's here counts.

And if we need to celebrate other festivals for other cultures, so be it.

But I think we need to allow the Hispanics to continue on with their tradition.

O█Dean: As mayor, I've been actu returning back to Santa Fe.

I've been doing archival research for the Cherokee of Geronimo's fame.

And, knowing the history, because especially this obelisk is not telling the true history, between the pueblos as well as the Spanish conquistadors.

And so I wasn't here during this thing, but what I'm looking at, is reunifying, I attended a, free concert here last year and a pueblo, musician.

They had a band playing, and the musician said that he, his father was hanged.

And a tree here in the plaza.

And so there is a reunification with the Chiricahua You know, this was their land.

They're now looking at investing and developing this land.

Even though Geronimo was a, uh, was a, prisoner of war for 27 years.

So it is reunifying.

But I'm trying to, instead of divide >>Cailley: Okay.

Thank you so much.

Those are all the questions I have.

>>O█Dean: Yeah, those are good questions.

>>Montoya: Thank you so very much too >>Rodriguez: All right.

Thank you.

Preciate it.

>>Cailley: That was Jeanne O█Dean, Oscar Rodriguez, and Leticia Montoya, three of the eight candidates vying for your vote for Santa Fe mayor.

We'll speak to the rest of the candidates before the November election for New Mexico in Focus, I'm Cailley Chella reporting.

>>Nash: Thanks again to Cailley Chella and Santa Fe mayoral candidates Letitia Montoya, Oscar Rodriguez and Jeanne O█dean for their time.

In 2018, Santa Fe became the first New Mexico City to use ranked choice voting for local elections.

Las Cruces followed the year after.

This week, Santa Fe County Clerk Katherine Clark breaks down the ins and outs of ranked choice elections and why she believes the system levels the political playing field.

and has some candidates playing nice.

Plus, I asked Clark if she plans to expand this voting system if elected, New Mexico's secretary of state next year.

>> Nash: Katherine Clark, thanks so much for joining us.

>> Clark: Thank you for having me.

>> Nash: So I imagine a lot of, voters in your county, Santa Fe County, as well as in Las Cruces, are pretty familiar with ranked choice voting at this point.

But for viewers elsewhere in New Mexico, can you describe how it works?

>> Clark: Sure.

So I think what is most easily, able to understand is that if you have a race and you have multiple candidates running against each other, instead of just choosing one person, you can rank all of the candidates in the race.

In Santa Fe, for instance, in the fall, we're going to have eight people running for mayor.

So you could choose one person, or you can rank up to eight people.

So it's this idea that it's flexible.

You can rank one, three, five or all eight people, but the idea is that when you have, just a simple race, then people who tend to choose a less popular candidate, then they don't have an influence on the outcome in rank choice voting.

When you rank all of the candidates, you actually are impacting each round.

Whereas one candidate's being eliminated.

So the idea is kind of like if you have buckets for each candidate and you have a pebble in each bucket, the first round is everyone chose their first round candidate, right?

And they all get distributed based on the first round and then the lowest ranked candidate, meaning the candidate got the least amount of pebbles in their bucket.

That bucket gets dumped over and turned over.

And then the second choices for the person who got eliminated first gets redistributed.

Right.

And then you look at the buckets.

Do any of them have over 50%?

No.

Then you eliminate the next person.

Right.

And then those pebbles get redistributed based on the preferences.

And then you keep going until you have the last two people or someone has gotten over 50%.

But those people whose candidates were eliminated first and second, they still influence the outcome of the election.

And that's the idea.

It's a little bit more democratic, because even if your favorite candidate was eliminated and they didn't win, you still got a say in who gets the the final choice.

>> Nash: So in terms of it being more democratic, would you also say that it affects the accessibility of the ballot for, in a Partizan election, maybe a third party candidate or in a nonpartizan election, somebody who's just less well-known?

>> Clark: Well, I think, one of the strengths of it is that you don't have to sacrifice your darlings.

So often what we hear is that in, in a race where you happen to really like someone, but you're worried that, another candidate you really don't align with is in a very head to head with someone else you don't like as much, but has more similar politics to you.

You would probably, in a ranked choice race, not have to sacrifice your darling.

I mean, you can choose your minor candidate, your upstart candidate that you think is probably going to get eliminated first and then choose your less favorite but you know is more aligned with you second.

So you're not having to split the vote between two candidates you like in order to not get the one that you really don't want.

The other idea is that we don't see as much, or at least the idea is, although I think that we have proven in Santa Fe sometimes that this does not always hold true, but one of the thoughts about, ranked choice voting is that you have to be nice to your other people in the race because you want their second or third voters to choose you second, third.

>> Nash: So it can affect campaigning in that way.

>> Clark: There's a theory, and I think to some degree, yes, although some people have just decided they might win outright 50% and have really made it a brawl.

But, often what you see is that candidates will start working together and not be quite as nasty.

You know, what we know about politics is people love attack as they say they hate them, but they love them.

But actually it does impact turnout.

So as people get nastier and nastier, there is a demographic of people who will not vote because they just they just truly get fed up.

But it's always interesting how people say they hate, negative campaigning, but they, do watch it.

We know from clicks that they're interested.

Right.

>> Nash: You mentioned that sometimes a candidate will talk about who, a voter should vote for second or first.

I have seen some Santa Fe mayoral candidates saying vote for me first, second, third.

Is that what's up with that strategy?

And is it kind of counter to the spirit of ranked choice voting?

>> Clark: Well, that is interesting because that is just a null effect.

And that's, I think, a misunderstanding about ranked choice voting.

So and we did do a candidate training.

So the city has done some candidate trainings and we have done some candidate trainings all about ranked choice voting.

And so if you are a candidate who's eliminated first and the person puts the voter puts you as the second choice.

It doesn't there's no benefit to it.

Essentially it's a no vote for them.

So, you know, we have seen some voters who have feel very strongly about one candidate and they choose the same candidate all the way across.

And some people have asked us, does that mean that technically their vote is null and no, we count that first choice, but then they don't get to choose where their pebble goes for the next bucket, right?

>> Nash: Well, how about for your office?

How does ranked choice voting affect the administration of an election?

>> Clark: It's very easy.

So I think when people say it's hard, I think people had to get past the technology with.

So we have Dominion voting machines.

It's the only the only voting system and tabulation system approved in New Mexico.

And so Dominion, you know, sets up the election and how the, analytics work.

But essentially, we get all the ballots in and we actually have to get to the point where we have enough ballots that are not out, meaning that almost all the ballots have come in, so there's not an error.

Like if so, I'll give you an example.

We had a four way race, last time we did ranked choice voting in district one, where four people were running for office.

Two people who were the first and second were very close.

And then the third and fourth candidates actually were tied.

And so what we did is we had to wait till more absentee, all the absentee ballots that had come in from the polling sites.

And also we still had, tallying at the warehouse.

We had to get down to the margin of error that we knew we could call who the first candidate was to eliminate.

So that way we knew how to redistribute the second round.

So we had to sort of squeeze out till we had less than, let's say, 30 votes out because it had been so close, so that I was outside of the margin of error.

So I had to do some.

I did have to do some statistics to figure that out.

And then, you know, like did the math and then thank goodness for, for statistics class and, figured out what my, you know, type two and type one error were and figure out, okay, I can now because I only have a few ballots that would come in that would be cured during the, canvasing process.

Now I can, with confidence say, okay, now I can eliminate the third or fourth candidate and then we know how to redistribute.

So that's we were actually waiting on that on election night.

People who have wider margins, of course.

And as the ballots come in, we basically wait until we have, you know, 99.99% of the ballots because what we don't want is we'll run the algorithm and then the next morning or the next couple of days, some ballots get cured in the curing process, and then it would be a different outcome because, you know, a different kind of candidate would have a second, you know, a second round, >> Nash: Wider margin.

It's going to be a pretty straightforward process.

When it's tighter, you might have to do some quick arithmetic.

>> Clark: You know, there's the prayer of wide margins by election officials always will cost.

>> Nash: Will cost.

Basically this is almost like an automatic recount, a quick, recount of weaponry.

It's an instant runoff.

>> Nash: Yes, an instant runoff.

Thank you.

>> Clark: That instant runoff.

And it's it saves a lot of money I know Albuquerque spends, like, one point or maybe even $2 million on their runoff election.

Well, we get to do is literally press a button.

I mean, that is what, ranked choice voting is.

And, you know, I think we're looking at ways of making that more transparent.

But essentially the software allows us to just press a button.

The hardest part of ranked choice voting is, is getting the electorate to understand it.

Right.

We you know, when you are implementing ranked choice voting, we always say, you know, the equipment exists, the technology exists.

That part's the easy part, right?

Doing the the administrative part is actually not.

It's pretty simple.

You just press a button.

But the electorate needs to be brought along right.

You have to make sure that you are providing as much information as you can for low information voters, because there is some data to show that if voting is perceived as being too hard or if it's too confusing, low income or low information, voters will choose not to vote.

Right.

And we don't want to make that a choice.

That's going to happen, right?

We want to make sure you're reaching out with culturally relevant information.

You're you're doing a lot of voter education.

That is where the money comes in.

Yeah.

So you have to kind of do you have to do some spending on voter education on the front end.

But then as the electorate gets used to it, then, you know, you have to spend less and less on voter education.

>> Nash: So far, it sounds like it can make an election more accessible.

It can make a runoff election, more instantaneous and less expensive and a lot of what we're talking about is a lot of positives.

Are there some drawbacks to this model?

>> Clark: You know, there is some critiques, I think, from people who are, you know, you know, pro-voters of color.

They make the argument that, you know, voters of color, if we have voters of color who are also low education voters, they may be disproportionately impacted by kind of this idea that we're changing, how we vote.

And it might be harder or it might be more difficult to do.

I think that I think the data doesn't necessarily show that, over the long term, but I think for one or the first or second time, people are learning how to vote this way it can disproportionately impact.

So, you know, if you really care that everybody votes, you really think that everyone's vote should count.

You have to be willing to invest that voter education piece to make sure that we're not disproportionately impacting people who are dissuaded by the idea or the messaging around maybe something's harder or more complicated.

>> Nash: What about the critique that this rejects, or at least complicates the principle of one person, one vote?

>> Clark: I don't think so, actually.

I think that what we want is that the majority of people choose who's the winner.

We want 50% plus one.

And this is, this is maybe a slight reconfiguration of what Democratic is, but it is still a democratic process.

I know people are very against ranked choice voting.

You know, but given the fact that everyone gets to have a say and that they still really are only only casting one ballot, right, it is still sticking with the idea that, like you are, you're only getting one, vote.

But that vote gets, you know, because we have technology where we can do it.

That vote is being distributed.

And again, I think that sort of how polarized we are right now, this may be a cure for that moment.

>> Nash: You're running for secretary of state next year in next year's election.

Would you, if elected, advocate for ranked choice voting to be expanded elsewhere in the state?

>> Clark: So what I've learned from the implementation of the regular local election is it's good to offer the option, but not force the choice.

I think that, you know, just like I advocate, I would be advocating for more expansion of public financing, more ability to roll into the regular local election and also being able to choose ranked choice voting.

I think we should give people the option to do it.

Entities to choose that for themselves.

And I think that if it is something that people really start liking, then you'll start seeing it spread throughout different entities.

If it's something that doesn't really work right, then people will not choose it.

But you have to give people, you know, we have to change the law.

So it allows people to get the resources to be able to, you know, should an entity decide they want to do it, opt in to do it, >> Nash: And is it scalable to the statewide level?

>> Clark: Absolutely.

I think it would be very scalable.

You'd have to figure out how to get the data, to sort of a central hub if you wanted to do it across, for instance, statewide elections.

But yeah, because right now each county has their votes, right.

So you have to make sure that you can put the data file.

And then the Secretary of state would probably run the, the algorithm at the end.

And we'd want to make it a very transparent process.

But essentially it is not something that's outside of the realm of possibility.

>> Nash: Claire Clark, thank you so much.

Thank you.

>> Clark: Thank you.

>>Nash: Thank you to Katherine Clark and the mayoral candidates from both Albuquerque and Santa Fe for being a part of this week's show, and join us next week when we will round out our look at those vying to be the next mayor of Albuquerque with Mayling Armijo and City Councilor Louie Sanchez.

And yes, that means prominent conservative candidate, former Bernalillo County Sheriff Darren White, will not be part of this round of coverage, but not for lack of trying.

We invited white to the studio for a one on one interview, which his campaign manager declined on his behalf.

We gave her a call to explain he would be the only Albuquerque mayoral candidate not featured on In Focus, and she later confirmed that White would still not be doing the interview.

The invitation stands for New Mexico PBS I'm Nash Jones.

Until next week, stay focused.

Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by viewers like you.