>> Hi.

I'm Lewis Howes, New York Times best-selling author and entrepreneur.

And welcome to "The School of Greatness," where we interview the most influential minds and leaders in the world to inspire you to live your best life today.

In this episode, pastor and best-selling author Michael Todd shares with us the spiritual keys to creating a healthy and lasting relationship.

I am so glad you're here today.

So let's dive in and let the class begin.

♪ ♪ >> I was the guy you did not want to bring home.

I was not a good person.

I had allowed a lot of images, cultural pictures of success as a man in a relationship, to define who I was.

I wanted the multiple people.

I wanted to be with her, with her, with her, with her.

Like, I was warped in my mentality because of what I had seen, what I thought success in a relationship was, and what I experienced.

And so the reason that I'm sitting here today is because I went through this journey of discovering how relationships should work and why they didn't work this way and why the thought process I had were wrong and I was able to repair and strengthen and renew a relationship with the same girl that I was with from 14 years old to where now we've been married 10 years and I'm more in love today.

I was telling you outside with no cameras on how fulfilled and excited -- I'm wearing my wife right now on my T-shirt.

Somebody is like, "Why you wear your wife?"

I was like, "I wear luxury."

You know what I'm saying?

Like, this is -- But I mean, in my mind, it's like I have totally transformed from where I was to who I am now.

And that took a long journey of discovering through faith and a lot of wisdom.

>> There are moments where those thoughts of "that's an attractive woman," "I wonder what that would be like," "That's interesting over there."

Have those moments -- Have those thoughts come in at all, and if so, how do you transparently communicate that?

Do you hide that from yourself and your wife?

Or what do you do to stay focused?

>> My nature comes from human nature.

>> Right.

>> I'm a man.

When I got married, everybody didn't get ugly.

And when -- Like, let's be very clear.

Like, there are things that we desire, we like, we see all of those other things.

The difference is I have disciplined myself.

>> Yeah.

>> I've become a disciple.

"A disciplined one" is what that word means.

And it means that you can see something that is good, that you do like, that you do want.

And you have been able to beat your body into subjection or beat your mind into subjection, or do the reps enough times to know that that cake look good.

But that's going to cost me for my end goal.

>> Ooh.

>> And that for me is the thing that I bring to every area of my life.

That may look good, that business opportunity may look good, that partnership may look good, that person may look good.

But is that going against what I want my end goal to be, or is that actually going to help me get to that thing?

And I think a lot of people are so driven by their desires that they don't become disciplined.

>> Ooh.

>> That my desire has more control over me than the thing that I disciplined myself to do.

And it's crazy because our culture is like, "do what you feel."

No, you can't always do what you feel... >> There's a consequence to that.

>> ...because there's a cost and a consequence to doing what you feel.

My dream is to be married to one woman for my entire life, for my four kids to look at me and say, "this is not a man who followed just his desires, but he was disciplined enough to challenge himself every day with social media, with the world around, with everything at his fingertips, that he was so strong that he took my mother, whose body's changed, whose moods changed, who doesn't look like what she looked like when they first met."

She looked better and like, "But he stayed with that and showed us how to love somebody."

It doesn't take a great man to learn how to love multiple women.

It takes a great, great man to learn how to meet the needs of one woman for a lifetime.

>> Wow.

>> And those are the things that for me, that's the goal.

So when I see something pretty that walk by, my God, that was nice.

God, you're good in all of your creations.

But me and my wife have developed an open relationship of communication that we understand, like, "You're still a human, but you're a human that has become disciplined."

And my disciplines now help me reach my destiny.

And I think that's where you can literally apply that to any-- >> Anything, yeah.

>> Eating, like, everything.

>> Spending money.

>> Spending money, everything.

That's where I'm at.

>> So how does the communication work?

>> So me and my wife been together long enough that she knows like -- she's like, "Was you looking at her?"

I'm like, "You know what?

I did see it."

You know what I'm saying?

And the same thing with, you know what I'm saying?

I don't got a six-pack yet, but you know what I'm saying?

There's certain things that are attractive to her and we have a lot of joy in our relationship and a lot of fun.

And so I usually make jokes about it, I make light about it.

It's like, "Oh, so you think that he look better than me?"

Or like, I'll do that.

But it's a way of us making sure that we don't isolate our feelings.

At the moment you start isolating what you actually feel, that is the crack that starts dissension.

Isolation is what I call the enemy's playground.

When he can get you on or anybody can get you in your own little world, on an island, isolated, "This is how you really feel," but you act like you don't feel that and all that other stuff, that's when so many deceptions, wrong thoughts, coping mechanisms start in isolation.

The only reason a lot of times we do things to cope is because we didn't know where we could go to actually do it in a healthy way.

>> Felt shameful.

>> We feel shameful.

"This is wrong."

And so when you get isolated, well, I only -- "That made me feel good for this moment.

I had to pop that pill just to make it through the day.

I had to drink that drink to be able to go here.

I had to look at that website just to bring down my --" And then it starts.

That isolation coping mechanism turns into habits.

Habits then need to be fed.

Then you start making room for your habits and then -- >> That's what addiction is, yeah.

>> And then they turn into addictions.

And now your addictions rule your life.

And now you will look at something that you chose and that you really want to be good and you don't even have power to say yes to the right thing and no to the wrong thing because in isolation, you form this whole thing that now you have to feed.

But that's why it's so important to have in your relationship communication, to be able to talk about things that are real in unity.

And I believe there's a commanded blessing on a relationship when there's unity.

There is a level of authenticity that's attractive when there's unity.

But where there's separate visions or division, like you think about it like this or they think about it like this, that's where everything crumbles.

And so -- >> How do you get to a place of unity vision if two people see the world in a different way?

>> Honesty.

>> Yeah.

>> Like there are so many people not actually being truthful about who they are today.

Not that you don't want to be better, not that there's not more for you.

But today you're faking.

Like today you're a liar.

Today you got up and put on a mask.

And a lot of people try to make this performance thing for, like, God and and people and my family because this is what they want.

And I was like, there's a blessing on who you actually are, even if it's not good today, because then you can start from there and actually become who you really want to be or a better version of who you are.

Just think about it.

I'm in L.A. right now.

>> Yeah.

>> I've never been here before.

I don't know where this is.

So when you sent me the address to do this, the first thing my phone asked me is, can I use your current location?

What if I told the map that I was somewhere I wasn't?

>> Ah.

>> It would have given me directions.

>> For the wrong place.

>> For the wrong place.

>> And you wouldn't have got here.

>> And I would have never reached this destination and been looking at your amazing smile if I wouldn't have been honest about where I was at.

>> Interesting.

Even if it's a bad place.

Even if it's dark, shameful.

>> Even if I'm lost.

Broken.

Hurting.

Beaten down.

Abused mentally, emotionally, spiritually.

If I'm honest about where I am today, that is the only way that I can get to my better tomorrow.

>> Why are we lying to ourselves so much?

>> Because it is shameful.

And a lot of times we hate that we got there.

>> We hate ourselves?

>> We hate ourselves that we got there.

How in the world did I get to this place?

How do I need these pills to go to sleep or to wake up?

How in the world do I have to keep kissing their butt to still work at this job?

Like, this is not me.

This is not who I want.

And so because we have disdain for who we have become, it's like if we acknowledge it, that reinforces that we're actually there and maybe we can't live with that.

And so it's this vicious cycle of faking to make it.

And that's why a lot of people say, "You got to fake it till make it."

I'm like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no."

>> You got to face it.

>> Face it so you can make it.

Be real so that you can actually move on to there.

And a lot of people are delaying the inevitable.

You can't hold up a facade forever.

>> No, it's gonna crumble.

>> At some point, it's gonna crumble.

The sad thing is a lot of time it crumbles when it has more people to damage.

>> Ooh.

Almost always, right?

>> Yeah.

A lot of time it crumbles.

Now I have three children and they're in relationships and now everything's dependent on me and I've built this empire of podcasting or business or fitness.

And now I'm in this space and place that, if I'm honest, it'll cost too much.

May I submit to you, if you're not honest, it's going to cost you too much.

>> Have you had to heal in the last 10 years, your relationship from stuff that happens every year, or is it only stuff from 10 years ago that you guys have to work on?

>> Bro, you know the answer to this question, man.

I'm a flawed man.

My wife is a flawed woman.

This is a daily walk.

But that's why I tell everybody the beautiful thing about journey, if you can get this stuck in your brain and in your heart, really, is that this life is about progression, not perfection.

And yeah, there's tons of healing that has to happen from every lie, from every deception, from every wrong word that was spoken.

I tell people this because a relationship is all about trust.

You can spend decades, years, months building trust.

But this is the truth.

Trust is lost in buckets but gained back in drops.

>> Yeah.

>> Trust is way more valuable than money.

Trust is way more valuable than connection.

Where there's trust, everything takes less energy.

It takes less money.

And it has better results.

But when there is no trust, it takes more energy, it takes more money, and there are minimal results.

And you can apply this to business, relationships.

You can apply it to your family.

>> And what happens if you are 100% in integrity with your word?

You're following through.

You're being honest.

You're showing up.

You're delivering in a relationship but the person doesn't trust you, after years.

>> That's why I tell people all the time, no matter if you're a couple, you're still single.

Like, even though you're in a relationship, you still have to be single enough to continue to improve.

A lot of people stop improving once they get in a relationship.

>> Like, "I got it.

What else do I need to do?"

>> "I made it" and all that other stuff.

But when you are in a relationship, there are still two very single people that need to work on their communication, work on their insecurities, work on their ability to communicate, work.

And if you stop developing your singleness in marriage or in a relationship, that relationship... >> Come on.

>> ...is headed for -- at one point for somebody to be on another level and be like, "This is not what we signed up for.

Hey, I thought we were partners.

I thought we were growing and going towards this together."

And that's why I encourage people all the time.

Like, "What have you brought to the relationship lately?

Like, what skills have you improved in?

Has your emotional intelligence gone to another level?

Has your spiritual awareness gone to another level?

Has your faith gone to another level?

What are you bringing to the relationship?"

And I just would encourage every couple ask yourself, "what have you brought to the relationship?"

>> What are the main principles that every relationship should be founded upon?

>> Let me give you three of them.

The first thing has to be transparency.

>> Yeah.

About everything.

>> Everything.

>> Like, "I had this thought."

>> Yeah.

>> "I looked at this.

I did --" Any idea.

>> I do believe that there's a difference between transparency and honesty.

Honesty is when you ask me, I'll tell you the truth.

>> But until then.

>> But until then.

>> I'm hiding something.

>> Yes.

And a lot of times most of us don't get asked the questions that we need to answer.

>> Those questions are scary to ask.

>> Oh, my gosh.

They're scary to ask.

>> And you don't want to know the answers.

>> And you don't want to know a lot of times.

And then it automatically, if the person is not emotionally secure enough, then you're like, "What?

You don't trust me?"

Like there's so many different things that are there.

And that's why I always ascribe to the philosophy of being transparent.

You don't have to ask me.

I'm going to offer it up.

I'm going to tell you, "Hey, when you -- when you talked to that guy at the restaurant, that made me feel some type of way and it made me really start thinking about the insecurities of my last relationship and why we broke up.

And I'm not asking you to solve it at this moment, but I'm letting you know how that made me feel.

And I'm just going to process with that."

There's no question that your mate could have asked to get that response that genuinely, because then they'll say something like this, "Are you okay?"

"Yeah, I'm fine."

And the truth is, no, you're not.

But I don't emotionally know how to let you know that that honestly, it wasn't really what you did.

It's what I've been through that triggered something in me.

And now I'm insecure about what I know I have, but it's because of what happened to me.

And what I found is when I'm transparent, it honestly provides more empathy from the other person.

I think you should be equally yoked in the or equally compatible in the things that you believe.

And when you do that, it's easier to have conversations about how to raise children, finances.

It creates a foundation that moves past emotions.

And so transparency, having strong faith foundations.

And then the third thing that I would say is fun.

>> Yeah.

>> If you cannot have fun with the person that you're in a relationship with, good luck.

Because there are certain things.

>> Life is hard.

>> It is hard.

There will be trouble.

It's promised.

But if you can find somebody to look at in the -- in the darkest part of the valley... >> And laugh.

>> ...and laugh with them.

>> What has been the biggest challenge for you during the rise of your personal brand success, the church success, the audience growth?

What has been the biggest challenge emotionally and how you've handled the emotional weight with the stuff with your wife and everything?

How do you personally manage the emotional weight?

>> I have to offload daily and most people carry daily.

They keep picking up more.

That's where anxiety and pressure and bad decisions and not resting and all that other stuff comes from.

I believe the first thing that you have to realize is you're not in control.

Make the sun come up 20 minutes early.

>> You can't.

>> And so I think that if you first recognize that you're not in control, then it gives you the ability to see what you are in control of.

You are in control of the toxic relationships you let into your life.

>> Right.

>> You are in control of what you do with your time.

I made some very hard decisions to do less when everybody was telling me to do more.

When we went from four speaking engagement requests in 2017 to over 3,000 a year later.

>> Crazy.

>> Nuts.

>> [ Laughs ] >> I still did less than five.

>> Really?

>> I believe everybody has a pace that they go that they're graced for.

And anything that you do outside of what you're graced to do, you have to sustain or carry that weight by yourself.

How many people?

You got a successful business, but somebody told you you need to double it.

So you started another one and now the other one's killing you.

You were graced to be successful at that business.

But because now you've seen some success and you want to do it, now you're going to lose your family three years from now because what was supposed to be enjoyable and now give you freedom to be able to spend time with your wife, your kids, now you've put something else you weren't graced for and now you're falling under the weight.

I'm just saying that our society has become so driven, so "go get it," so grind, so all this stuff and people are going to achieve success and lose significance.

>> What's the biggest challenge you've had in terms with your relationship, your marriage?

What's the biggest challenge you've had as a couple?

>> I think one of the things that every couple has to figure out for themselves is how you communicate during trauma.

For my wife, in trauma she wants to communicate about it and talk about it.

In trauma, I want to think about it and fix it.

That's my nature.

And that's most men's nature, is to try to figure it out.

If the person you love is suffering or hurting... >> Fix it now and move on.

>> Let's fix it and let's move on.

And so there's been a lot of times that I've had to learn to just listen and just sit with you and just get down in the hole with you and just say, "I'm sorry you feel that way.

And I understand."

And that at the beginning of this process was very difficult for me.

I've tapped into another level of power to know that I could do something, but I'm choosing not to because the other person needs this.

>> Oh, my gosh.

>> When you talk about sacrifice in a relationship, that's a lot of times what it looks like.

It's you know you could get over this really quick, but doing the thing so both of you cross the finish line together.

See, a lot of times when there's a problem, the thought process is like, "You ain't over that yet?

Like, that was easy for me to get over, like, come on."

And so then you put pressure on that person.

>> Then there's resentment and frustration and anger.

>> And now you've created another problem that was not even the root issue.

>> Yeah.

>> And what I've learned right now is that for me and Natalie in this situation, I had to slow down.

I had to not sprint across the finish line of whatever that moment was.

And maybe we "lost the race," but we finished together.

How many times have we "won the race" but lost our partner?

And now because I've been in it with her, she trusts me with it now.

>> What's the thing that you have yet to fully heal?

>> My performance-based scorecard.

>> Ooh, tell me more.

>> I have been raised to think that how good I do is attached to how good I am.

It is a tension for me to continually daily detach who I am and what I'm worth from what I do and what that's worth.

>> Oh, my gosh, this is powerful.

>> I got to every day.

>> What does that process look like?

>> You can't heal what you won't reveal.

>> And it's hard to heal if you're hiding, right?

It's really hard to heal.

>> So good.

>> So how does someone get to a place of sharing, opening up, revealing so that they can heal when it is so dark, so painful, so traumatic from something in the past?

>> So this is where counseling comes in heavy, you know what I'm saying?

Or a good, in my opinion, godly community.

Like people who you can tell that won't trash you while you're peeling back this onion.

Like, you know what I'm saying?

>> When you're super vulnerable.

>> When you're super vulnerable, and people make circles based on success a lot of times in networking instead of making circles based on insulation.

When you have a circle around you, you need an insulation, you need people you can be your 100% self with and they protect you and cover you, not cover up.

But cover you and help lead you to the right place.

And for me, I had that.

I had a good, godly community as well as we had counseling.

And sometimes you got to be able to be put in positions that make you answer questions you don't want to answer and talk about things that nobody wants to.

When they start asking you, "what's one thing that happened to you when you were younger?"

And I encourage everybody to ask you this.

"What's one thing that happened to you when you were younger that negatively shaped who you are today?"

>> Yeah.

A lot of things for me.

>> But see, if you answer that question honestly, you start opening up things that probably there needs to be some more conversations about.

>> What happens if we don't open up and talk about those things?

>> It's the same thing that happens when you put food that was good at one point and you leave it by your bed for three months.

>> Mm.

It's rotten.

>> It festers.

>> Yes.

>> It spoils, it rots.

>> Get some maggots in there.

>> And then it attracts things that will eat off of it.

>> Ugh.

>> This is what some of our relationships look like.

And then it becomes the aroma of your living.

>> Ooh, it becomes your environment.

>> It becomes your environment.

It doesn't matter how many million you spent on the bedroom if something's rotting in the corner.

>> Mm.

>> I've seen too many people get to what they thought was the mountaintop, and it feel emptier than a different season in their life.

>> Why are we jealous human beings?

And is there a place in which we can be completely not jealous of our partner or someone else?

>> Yes.

So jealousy is our nature.

We are all born with a nature that you do not -- I have kids.

I don't have to teach them how to be bad.

Like, all of my kids learn "no," "mine."

I never taught any of my kids those words.

I have to teach them "share."

I have to teach them "give."

>> Contribute.

>> "Help."

>> Yeah.

>> We're all born with what I call a lower nature, a sin nature that's in us, and jealousy is the primary nature that is formed there.

All the way back to Cain and Abel.

The first two brothers kill each other over jealousy.

Like, it's our nature.

And so what you have to do is fight that nature with the thing that is counter to that nature.

So when you start to give what you wish you had, somehow those things begin to come into your life in a different way or you don't desire them anymore.

Generosity kills jealousy.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And then the other thing that's very practical with jealousy -- if you don't see it, you won't be jealous of it.

So many people are jealous because of overexposure.

There are certain things I'm not supposed to know about somebody else's life, but because of the culture we live in today, I'm jealous of things that I didn't even know existed.

>> It used to be in the, I guess, '50s and '60s, the "Joneses," where it's like the neighbor.

You saw the neighbor's house and car.

You didn't go see everyone's house and car on social media.

>> There are days of every week that I cut off my social media.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> Now, for some people, that would seem stupid.

For me, that was success.

I was unattached.

>> Yeah.

>> My worth.

>> To the results, yeah.

>> Those are the type of decisions that are countercultural that people don't understand.

But that's why I have my peace.

>> I want to ask you a question I ask everyone at the end called the Three Truths.

It's a hypothetical question and scenario.

>> Okay.

>> So imagine it is your last day on Earth, many years from now.

And you've accomplished, given, become everything you've wanted to do.

>> Okay.

>> But for whatever reason, it's the last day, and you've got to take everything with you to the next place.

So no one has access to your books, this conversation or your message anymore.

It's all gone to the next place, wherever it goes.

>> Yeah.

>> However, before you go, you have a piece of paper and a pen, and you get to write down three things you know to be true.

The three lessons that you would leave behind.

And this is all we would have to remember your lessons by.

I call it the three truths.

What would you say would be yours?

>> All you have is all you need.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> My second truth would be progression over perfection.

That if you take a step every day, you'll get to the place that you're supposed to be at.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> And then my last one would be Jesus loves you.

>> What's your definition of greatness?

>> Actually fulfilling what you've been called to do.

To my core, I feel like everybody's wired for greatness.

>> We hope you enjoyed this episode and found it valuable.

Stay tuned for more from "The School of Greatness" coming soon on public television.

Again, I'm Lewis Howes.

And if no one has told you lately, I want to remind you that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.

And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

If you'd like to continue on the journey of greatness with me, please check out my website lewishowes.com, where you'll find over 1,000 episodes of "The School of Greatness" show, as well as tools and resources to support you in living your best life.

>> The online course Find Your Greatness is available for $19.

Drawn from the lessons Lewis Howes shares in "The School of Greatness," this interactive course will guide you through a step-by-step process to discover your strengths, connect to your passion and purpose, and help create your own blueprint for greatness.

To order, go to lewishowes.com/tv.

♪ ♪ ♪