From WXXI news I'm Jasmine Singer and this is Environmental Connections.

Today's environmental connection was made on April 22nd, 2009.

That was the day that scientists confirmed that video of meiosis, a deadly fungal disease, had driven the Panamanian golden frog to extinction in the wild.

It was a stark reminder that amphibians, already facing mounting environmental threats, are on the front lines of global biodiversity loss.

But here's the thing.

Frogs aren't just a vanishing species in remote rainforests.

They're disappearing right here in Rochester.

Two.

Habitat loss, climate change, pollution and disease are all driving amphibian populations into decline.

And when frogs disappear, the entire ecosystems suffer.

So today, we're focusing on an effort to turn the tide.

The restoration of vernal ponds in Pittsford is a conservation project that is giving frogs a fighting chance.

How do these small, temporary wetlands help sustain amphibian populations?

And what role do frogs play in maintaining ecological balance?

And what can local communities do to help?

Joining me today are three guests deeply involved in amphibian conservation.

In the studio we have doctor Jack Robert, Professor in the Department of Microbiology and Immunology at the University of Rochester Medical Center.

Doctor Margot Fass, activist, artist and founder of a frog House, which we're going to talk a lot about today.

And Bob Corby, former mayor of Pittsford and advocate for the Robert C Corby Arboretum and Wildlife Sanctuary.

Thank you all so much for being here today.

Thank you.

We're super excited to talk about frogs.

Let's start with the big picture.

And Doctor Roberts Amphibians have been on Earth for hundreds of millions of years.

And yet today we're seeing their populations decline it.

What I would say is a pretty alarming rate.

Why?

Why is this happening both globally and here in New York?

Well, first of all, it's about 20 years that they are declining.

And, you know, compared to other groups that we estimate that 40% of all amphibian species have globally, either decreased or it became extends.

There's a 200 actually two species that have been extinct.

And obviously there's habitat loss.

Climate change, pollution, but also invasive species like, either from mammals or birds, but also even frogs, like the one I work in, Xenopus, that is an African frogs that was used for bats, and that are released in nature is lacking, for example, in California and in, Washington state, there's huge, population that eat everything.

And, it's almost impossible to rid of those species.

the infection, of course, chytrid, fungus are a major, culprits.

And virus also infection.

Why?

recently, I mean, for chytrid, we know it's ordinate in Asia.

and, you know, just find a really easy to grow on, on many different frogs or, and virus.

for a long time, this virus is known as cause the rhinovirus was not the major infectious.

It just became more and more prevalent.

And I think maybe because of stress and pollution.

Adding to that, we have more infection that kill animals.

Well, frogs in particular seem to be highly vulnerable to environmental changes.

What is it about their biology that makes them so susceptible to habitat loss and pollution?

Well, first, you know, compared to mammals, frogs, the eggs is, developing, outside of the mother.

So it's very rapidly in contact in water with pathogens directly.

And of course, pollutants that act, on the development but also on the immune system.

And that's what I'm study and, very low level of pollutants, below EPA, have already affect on the immune system and decrease the resistance of those animals to infection.

So would you say that there are any promising breakthroughs in disease prevention?

again, it's very difficult, I think.

I'm working.

You know, we are at the level where, and then just species are conserving zoo for example, where we do, production at high level and then, put those animals back in nature.

Problem with chytrid is that the resistant is not coming up.

And again infected and died.

So we are, moving even to what we call synthetic biology, where we thinking about, you want to change the genetic of those animals to make them more resistant?

It's a very, contested area.

but, we arrive to a verge where there's so many animal, so many species disappearing that, people want to act on it.

And, you know, there's an effect directly on not only on frogs, but on human.

There's report in South America where there's a correlation between disappearance of frogs and increase of mosquitoes and malaria.

so there's a direct correlation with when you have less predators, for, white, level of insects, that disappear.

All right.

Well, I have a lot more questions for you, but I want to turn to doctor fast.

Doctor fast?

Building on that, frogs are often called an indicator species.

What does that mean?

And aside from the obvious tragedy of any life form disappearing, why should we care so much about their presence or absence in local ecosystems?

Well, in one sentence, I can say if we save the frogs, we save human life.

they are, as you say, indicator species.

So what is happening to them is happening really to all amphibians and wildlife, reptiles, and other animals.

And you mentioned all of the causes of climate change and habitat destruction and disease and so forth.

human beings are are the most prevalent animal on Earth, and, we're the most destructive.

So, we don't know that we're digging our own graves by draining wetlands and by by, really killing frogs.

I would like to add, because you opened with the golden Panamanian frog.

It's that, article by Elizabeth Kolbert in the New Yorker, back in April of, I think, 2019, that got me interested in, The Sixth Extinction and frogs.

I was already in my, 70s, and I hadn't thought much about frogs, but I started painting them.

And then I read that article, and as you said, they've lasted so long and have been the.

They were before the dinosaurs.

They lived the dinosaurs, all kinds of climate catalysts or fees.

And, now we are, are busy just, raping and killing.

That's the only expression that comes to my mind.

But, it's, it's our life is at stake.

And as I said, on one program, that, they'll probably outlive us.

And so my daughter as well, why should we save them that love?

Because we want to save ourselves.

well, I mean, and then, of course, there's saving them to save them because they're so cute and beautiful, and and they also have convert variety and diversity and so clever.

And they I wanted to add to what, Doctor Roberts said that they breathe through their skin, which is another reason that if they're pollutants in the water, they're especially affected.

I was saying your name painfully American, wasn't I?

And I said, Doctor Robert, doctor Robert would that be more.

That's okay.

Okay.

Doctor bear, could the study of amphibian immune systems lead to insights that might help us combat infectious diseases in other species?

Yes, of course.

I mean, first, you know, the skin of and Phoebe ants, the because they breathe the directly so skin, really well protected by what we call anti, healthy microbial peptides.

And, some of those are very potent.

For example, from Xenopus, the African fruit, one substance called terrapin can kill, you know, basically virtually all bacteria at low levels.

So it has not been commercially done so far because it's a complicated molecules, but there's hundreds of others molecules in different amphibian species.

So that's one way.

The other way is all the, the all the understanding of how the, the immune system develop.

and that's, you know, that's what I'm working.

I mean, is using as a model for human health, and we learn a lot because, again, compared to a fetus in the mother that is protected, although, we know that's more and more this contaminant going in, in the placenta, the tadpoles develop.

It's matched the fetal development.

in, in human.

And we can access, you know, the immune system and study how it develops and how it is affected by environments.

well, thank you for that.

There's a lot to learn here.

We're certainly all on the same page about the fact that, like, we we want to save them.

And, Bob, I want to turn to you.

You've been instrumental in Pittsford Vernal Ponds Project, what initially led the community to take on this initiative, and was there a particular moment or a realization that spurred action?

Well, the vernal ponds as part of a larger project, to conserve 35 acres of open space, wild open space in the northwest corner of the village.

And that started, in part to give people, access to passive open space.

And during Covid, we really learned how important that is for people's mental and physical health, to develop this area in a way that would be cost effective to taxpayers.

But also, help with a sustainable message in public education.

We developed the The Arboretum Project, which, has an educational mission to teach the public about the importance of managing invasive species and cultivating native ecosystems, and both in terms of, plants, keystone pollinators, trees and wildlife.

And the vernal pond fits perfectly because, frogs are such an important part of of the native food chain here in western New York.

Actually, you know what?

Let's back up for listeners who may not be familiar, what exactly are vernal ponds?

Why are they so crucial to amphibian survival?

Vernal ponds are temporary ponds that happen each year in the spring.

They're filled with water, usually after the snowmelt, to some time.

By June, they're pretty much have dried up.

And they provide a breeding ground for certain species of frogs as well as salamanders.

And, in our native forests that were parks with with what they call, key terrain where the big trees turned over the, they were naturally full of these vernal ponds.

And when we cut those forests and turned it into farmland, even when they grew back, we've lost the the natural cavities that would cause vernal ponds.

And so that's just one of the things that we've done inadvertently, is removing this important, feature of our native landscape.

Doctor, fast, let's turn to you.

You're you're the founder of a frog house, which is a unique organization dedicated to amphibian conservation and education.

What inspired you to create this initiative?

And tell us a little bit more about the kind of work you do to engage the community.

Well, as you as I said earlier, it was this, golden Panamanian frog.

And then I discovered the organization called Save the Frogs.

And, that's an a global, international organization.

And, so I was sort of on the sidelines watching what they were doing.

I went to a couple of eco tours, in Costa Rica and Ecuador with them.

And, I started writing blogs about about the frogs and as I said, painting images.

And then our daughter moved to Pittsford, and, she had this property.

And although she was at the time running it, you now owns it.

it was all chemical ized and, and invasive plants growing everywhere.

And it just, wasn't nice.

And there's so little out building, about ten feet by ten feet that must have been used as, as a boathouse or something.

And the former owner used it as a library.

So after doing the gardens for, the summer, we came to the house and it needed a lot of repair and plastering and, new wood and and floor.

So, we did that, and I said, well, I have a lot of frog ability, that people have given me, and this would be a perfect place to put it.

And my designer, Catherine Dennison, who designed, the book called Frog Families First.

Frog like that I wrote and illustrated, said, well, why don't you open it as an educational, place?

So now our mission is, advocacy, collaboration and education.

So for the first four years or so, well, we're in year seven for the first five years, we did outreach.

We opened our doors on Sunday afternoon.

People would walk by and they'd come up and they'd see the frogs and the frog pond I built.

And, and, and get excited about, about having one in their own backyard.

And that's a big advocacy effort for you, right?

Like having what?

Tell us why.

What makes backyard frog ponds beneficial?

Well, mosquito free is one of the best things.

And, as Rob mentioned, they're part of the food chain.

they're they're just very peaceful families with these raucous kids will come and sit by the frog pond and get very quiet watching the the frogs, they're they're so delightful.

and at one time, it's a small pond.

We had 13 frogs in in this one little space.

So, they're fun to watch.

and and then they generate a lot of questions which we try to, answer.

We have events for events every year.

the frog family birthday party, the Save the Frogs day that is part of Save the Frogs, worldwide initiative.

And, Rob actually was, with us for the very first one when he was still mayor, and he had me hanging banners all over the the village, so maybe we can put them up again this year.

I will I, I sure.

I mean, why not?

Rob.

Every conservation project has its challenges.

What were some of the biggest obstacles in restoring these ponds and how did the team overcome them?

Well, one of the biggest challenges we've had in the Arboretum is the removal of invasive species, and one of the most problematic ones in rapid spreading ones we have in this area is Japanese knotweed, which is a shrub and so one of the, vernal ponds will actually be located in an area of Japanese knotweed that has been mitigated.

the other problem has been, politics and governmental leadership.

We've we've had to, really do a lot of outreach and education to explain to people why we're doing what we're doing, why it makes sense.

And so, the friends of the organization is 100 member, grassroots organization I founded in Pittsford to kind of steward this project along.

And we've probably spent as much time doing research and outreach as we have had doing actual physical labor volunteer work in the Arboretum.

What partnerships, would you say, like local governments, conservation groups or schools have been key to making this project successful?

Well, and our biggest partner, obviously, is the village of Pittsford.

the Department of Public Works has done essential maintenance on, native trees that were planted in 2021.

But beyond that, we've reached out to the scouts.

Next week, Margo and I are.

We'll be talking to the Seneca Waterways Council to get volunteer efforts from scouts that won an Eagle badge.

We've had three scout projects completed already.

Margo is working with the Pittsford Garden Club on a permaculture or garden project.

That will be a demonstration, for the public to see how to cultivate native plants.

And that will be located right in the middle of the arboretum.

We also have been talking to wildlife and plant, experts in the area, as we do our research.

we we've got a contact at the Pittsford Central School District, and we're just beginning that partnership.

We also have, made contact with, Patrick Garrick, who is the director of the environmental sustainability program at Nazareth University.

And they have confirmed that they would like to do a partnership with us to help both further their program and actually maybe help us with some volunteer labor.

Oh, that's all very promising, Margot, a habitat connectivity.

I want to ask you a question about that, because I know it's a major issue for wildlife conservation.

So how does ensuring that frogs have access to multiple wetland sites improve their chances of survival?

Well, especially at the vernal ponds, because they breed there.

And, if there are fish or bullfrogs in the ponds, then they can't.

They will be eaten before they develop.

So both bullfrogs have two years of development and therefore, they can't survive in vernal ponds.

So, in terms of connectivity, frogs can travel quite a long way and they're like highways.

If you build one, they'll come.

You don't need to.

In fact, it's not allowed to transport frogs from one place to another.

In New York State.

There are rules against that.

So, so as I said, we just had this little body of water and and there they, they, they came hopping over.

They can they smell it apparently.

maybe Doctor Robert can tell us more about that, but they do smell, water from large distances.

And then they call, from there and attract their mates.

And I don't know that I, I have not seen any tadpoles yet, although I built them a nursery.

Okay.

so I'm sure in the vernal ponds we'll see lots of tadpoles.

In fact, in, in the, town, part of the where the four ponds that were built by, well, scientific there are, there are wetlands near there and there are lots of frogs.

They don't go into the pools, of course, but they do breed down there in those wetlands.

Well, I am curious about the distinct vocalizations as well as this sense of smell.

So, Doctor Robert, let's turn to you.

Tell us a little bit more about how the distinct vocalizations play an important role in in their survival.

And also they're smelling the water where again, I think the complication is there's many different species of frogs and it would be different.

So I know, for example, for the African frogs, that the the vocalization in the water is very important.

There's sexual cold, the dominant cold from females.

and basically, there's some kind of agreement for migration so that when the thing that the spawn is too small, there's a equation for moving, in Africa that could go from one point to another during the night, for, green frogs.

I think there's also, a lot of, vocalization, of course, sexual vocalization.

I think the in in some those species, the they will able to detect, you know, chemical in water.

it would be either nasal or just the skin.

Again, the skin is very sensitive, and they have a lot of, potential for detecting, not only, smell, but like, electromagnetic field and things like that.

Yeah.

Things we could never do.

Yeah.

Could we?

Rob?

Yeah.

Did you want to weigh in on the habitat connectivity?

Yeah, I had just one of the.

Yeah, one of the great, opportunities at the site of the arboretum in the Erie Canal Nature Preserve next door is it encompasses a broad variety of micro ecosystems, including, several creeks with riparian corridors, the ponds that Margo mentioned.

And, because the whole goal of the arboretum is to basically plant a native forest, we'll have right in that 35 acre envelope, different micro ecosystems that will support every stage of a frog's life.

Wow.

We have an email from David in Ovid, and you could tell me which one of you want to answer this.

I used to enjoy the high pitched call of spring peepers in vernal ponds in early spring.

In the last few years, it seems to me that I hear less of them.

I thought this was truly a symptom of Silent Spring.

I thought they had declined, but I read online that that's not the case.

What is the state of our vernal singers this spring?

Peepers.

Who wants to take that?

Margo, do you know we don't?

I would go with his first theory, and I don't know where he read that.

It's not the case, but, he can do something to bring them back.

What is that?

Well, he can build backyard ponds.

He can clear invasive plants from from the property.

He can advocate for clean water.

I have a friend who volunteers at a frog house who's very concerned about salt in the winter, and how that affects the waterways.

there are so many new ways, David.

You can get involved.

You can, just start anywhere with, with the friends of the arboretum or a frog house, or save the frogs or your local deck.

They're just follow your heart and, and, honor those spring peepers because they're so lovely.

The other thing I would add is that the prevalence of peepers, there's a variety of factors that affect them.

And one of the big ones is the weather.

And I live near a pond where they are very strong.

they were extremely loud, in 2024. but if we get a late frost, there's a variety of factors that can, affect their life cycle.

It often, based on my own observation, they seem to go in cycles like many things do in the natural world.

like trees, as you explained to me.

hum.

Yeah.

Well.

And what was it you just said?

The prevalence of peepers.

Margo, there's your next book title.

The prevalence of peepers.

We're we're going to take a short break, but when we come back, we'll discuss the ecological impact of frog populations and how climate change is accelerating their decline and what local policies could make a difference.

So stay with us.

There's more environmental connections after this.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Monday on the next connections, we bring back a couple of recent conversations that had a lot of people talking.

The first hour, a rebroadcast of our recent conversation with Rochester Mayor Malik Evans.

And then in our second hour, a conversation with a couple of retired judges who have some strong views about this moment for our Constitution and what happens if the white House decides to ignore the courts.

That's Monday.

Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from the Highlands at Pittsford, an independent and assisted living community affiliated with the University of Rochester, offering cottage and apartment homes, daily life enrichment activities and care assistance as needed.

More at highlands@pittsford.org.

If you're just tuning in, I'm Jasmine Singer and we're talking about amphibian conservation in Rochester today here on environmental and environmental connections.

I almost said environmental conservation because that is partly what we're talking about today.

We're here with doctor Jack, Robert with Doctor Margot Fast, and with Robert Corby.

Doctor Robert, I want to chat with you for just a moment before the break.

We talked about disease, threats to amphibians, but beyond disease, what role does climate change play in their decline?

Well, first, you know, those animals are, cold blooded vertebrates.

So they are, of course, sensitive to change in temperature.

And, you know, it has fluctuation, of temperature that could, rise some pathogens and also that can change their, migration or their, just their development.

And, we don't know for sure, you know, what to expect with that because it also change, you know, like a, acidity of the water.

it's temperature dependent.

So just by changing the temperature, we change all other physical, aspect of water.

And, it looks, that, you know, it's certainly a factor that impacted, negatively.

frogs are some frog species proving to be more resilient than others.

And, yeah, what sets them apart?

Yes.

So, we don't know for sure.

I mean, like some, frogs, like bullfrog.

we was an invasive frog.

Appear in addition to resistance to virus, to chytrid.

and, some other species are like that.

And, related to that, I wanted to mention before is that, you know, international trade, is a problem because, people like to collect and filberts from different parts of the world.

And, you know, first, sometime I'm not happy with that.

And they release that in, in nature and it become invasive species.

But also those spaces come with pathogens.

So there's regulation now international to declare whether the infection or not.

But you know, nobody really check for this.

And that's a big additional risk.

Yeah.

That that makes me pretty unhappy to hear about the international trade, is there?

I mean, does anyone know if there are any efforts underway to kind of fight against this?

I'd say the frogs have been very, active in trying to to stop the importation and exportation of frogs.

I want to mention a large factor in the importation also is, eating frog legs.

And, I went down to Charlie's Frog Pond and I said, do you?

I wanted to put up a poster, and I said, do you serve frog legs?

And he said, yes, have a seat.

Well, no thank you.

And, I haven't, created a march yet, but save the frogs.

Creature was able to get Wegmans to stop selling frog legs, but that's a huge cause of, the decimation of frog population.

Wow.

Well, I'm a longtime vegan, so I understand.

Yeah.

Me, too.

Oh, really?

Okay, so anything with us, all right?

Or with the mother?

doctor, for sticking with you for a moment.

Seasonal shifts are becoming more and more unpredictable.

I mean, gosh, this winter alone, like, how does that affect the breeding and migration patterns of amphibians in our region?

It's.

Doctor Rivera was, talking I was thinking about some frogs that migrate further and further, either north or to the top of a mountain, with climate change.

And of course, when they get to the very top of the mountain, if it's too hot, then, they die.

So.

And that happens.

It's happened in, in Malaysia.

Well, all over the world.

Really?

Where there are mountain frogs.

And that's what I want to say right now if you want to join the conversation, if you're also listening to this or watching on YouTube and you're passionate about frogs, give us a call 844295 talk.

That's (844) 295-8255.

You can also leave us a comment.

We are streaming right now on YouTube.

We do have, yes.

Rob.

Yes.

And one other comment on that.

you know, for here's an example of how climate change would affect amphibians.

well, we don't really notice this because it happens under the ice, but salamanders begin breeding right now.

Right now in vernal ponds under the ice.

And, one of the reasons they've developed to do that is because they're safe from predators down there.

When you have a saw like we're having right now or a year like last year when that ice doesn't form, then in their breeding, season, they are susceptible to predators.

So that's just one example of things that are changing pretty radically.

And it.

Rob, the Pittsford project is part of a broader conservation effort.

So how does that fit into the larger picture of land preservation in Monroe County?

Well, Pittsford has a long history of, even though it's a suburban community of trying to preserve its agricultural lands, which they had a big program, which I was a part of in the 1990s to save all the family farms that remain.

but there's been a renewed emphasis on understanding wildlife corridors and not only saving, parcels that haven't been developed, but actually, cultivating and preserving corridors so wildlife can actually move from one parcel to the next.

And, and with the, Arboretum and Erie Canal Preserve, or part of the headwaters of Allen Creek, a tributary to Allen Creek, and one of the focuses of the development of our micro ecosystem is to also look at the health of that riparian corridor and make sure that, deer, turkey, fox and other things can actually safely access some of the other, preserved areas in the north half of the town of Pittsford.

I love that we're going to go to a caller, Hal, from southern Livingston County.

Thanks so much for calling Environmental Connections.

Hi.

yes, thank you very much.

we have a small farm that we've used for practices and then, concerned about, conservation.

And so, we have a series when it's a very wet, season of vernal pools that kind of spill into each other as at 1700 feet, glaciers cleared off a lot of their topsoil.

So there's clay beds and these, form, choruses of peepers in the spring that are very loud and plentiful, with hundreds, at the very least.

And then we also have, more permanent, so called farm pond that's about ten feet deep with, over 110 years old.

And it has, presumably, thousands or more, frogs, breeding in it, and probably under the ice at this time of year, they're beginning to get things together.

And, and then they spread everywhere.

So, that is they leave the pond and become toady, like, frogs.

So, could you talk about the, the lifecycle and ecology of keepers, who like vernal pools, apparently.

Oh, yeah.

And maybe describe the species.

I have two frog books here, but, I don't pretend to know much about them.

My.

Why use frog books when you could call environmental connections?

Thank you.

Hal, that's a great question.

doctor?

Doctor fast.

Doctor.

River.

Rob, do any of you want to talk a little bit about the natural natural predators for peepers and pond frogs, which I believe was part of Hal's question?

It's a good question.

Well, I'd like to respond to to, how proud I am of it.

I am of Hal for keeping these ponds and, and it brings up one of the benefits of vernal ponds that that, unless they're drained as they have drained 90% of them in California and, well, almost 50% of them around the United States.

and this all started back in the agricultural era where, where they needed to, to develop farmland, a vernal pond.

The three that we're going to put in, hopefully will last 2000 years now.

So I'm very excited about this project because if a meteor kills me, right.

And everyone else.

Yeah.

Still, our frogs will survive.

I feel like that about rewilding projects in general.

Like I just feel like, okay, well, I have no idea what happens next, but I do know that this is a real investment in the future.

doctor Robert, what are the cascading effects on ecosystems when frog populations decline?

Like, could could we be facing an ecological domino effect?

Yeah.

So again, I don't know.

You know I think scientific now we we have this concept of one house.

You know, that means there's an integration between, environments, natural life and human house, and there's a lot of, an investigation showing that this clear links between those different aspect.

So we are interdependent.

So, frogs, because of the sensitivity, are indicators of something going wrong in, the environments.

And ultimately that will affect human, to other animals or to directly affect on human.

And, you know, we use we work a lot on, on microplastic right now.

and we have shown already that, you know, even at low level plastic affect resistance of, and fibers against, of virus pathogens.

And so that raised a question in human because they are very closely related in their immune system.

And are there lessons we can learn from past amphibian extinctions that might help protect species today?

Well, I mean, what's complicated I mean, over the years, you know, over the million of year, of course, an extinction of species is part of the evolution process.

I mean, this is a selection.

New species appear, some disappear is just the rates, of disappearance that is big.

And and again, because of that, it raised the question of, you know, the world environment is, sick, basically.

And that means, ultimately will have a problem for water quality, and, survival.

for human.

Beside that, I think, you know, it's become complicated to, to details the effect.

I mean, there's a lot of investigation right now, but, it's complicated.

Yeah.

Yes.

Margo.

And one of the benefits of Verna plant is that they do filter water.

So, they do help with pollution.

The more the merrier.

Well, let's stick with that topic of pollution.

How does chemical runoff and microplastic contamination impact frog populations?

And are these threats worsening, doctor Foss absolutely.

They're worsening.

And absolutely they if they, kill frogs, one spray of roundup will kill a frog within a half hour.

One nil.

And as a doctor, Robert was talking before the program started.

We we all go by farms where there spewing out chemicals like crazy people.

And I'm a psychiatrist.

well, I mean, that's that's that's upsetting to hear, but are there specific policy changes?

And perhaps, Rob, you want to weigh in on this as well?

Are there specific policy changes that you'd like to see at the local or state level to better protect wetland ecosystems?

Well, I think as mayor and one of the things that we did is we curtailed the use of pesticides by our Department of Public Works.

And I think although the village doesn't have much regulatory control at the upper levels of government, what we hope to do, through the arboretum is educate people about the importance of not using pesticides in your yard because of the detrimental effect they have on birds, insects and everything else and actually show them what you shouldn't be planning.

So the permaculture project of vernal ponds and the cultivation of the native trees and shrubs that we're shepherding are all part of that mission.

Are there existing environmental laws that help or maybe hinder frog conservation efforts?

I don't think there's a lot because I think it hasn't been on most people's radar.

And, you know, I think one of our mission for all three of us here at the table is to make people aware that this is something we need to tackle, and we need to do it urgently.

Yes, Margo, new York State has, banned the use of, glyphosate.

I think, roundup.

I'm not sure, but, I recall 4 or 5 years ago.

But there's an organization here in Rochester called healthy gardens of Monroe and, Megan.

her last name begins with the name.

Okay.

And Mary Moore, have been very active.

I met Mary when we first opened.

at frog House, and she is.

She's a mover and shaker, and she knows all the chemicals in all the places and and, all the places they're they're used and has been very active in the town of Pittsford, particularly in trying to get people to to be more aware, they have, pollen, chemical free gardens.

Also the, Cornell, extension program, I was able to earn a pollinator friendly garden, sign and a chemical free garden sign.

So I'm always jealous when I pass by those.

I do that, yes.

Well, you can do it, too.

It's it's really pretty simple, but but, that's a very active organization.

And, I wish I could be more associated with them, but, you know, you can only do so much.

That's true.

Yes, doctor Rivera, what did you want to I want to just mention, you know, that, at the University of Rochester, the Department of Environmental Medicine has a long lasting contact with the city of Rochester.

And we struggle with plastic.

We have a, you know, we started to have a, contact with several people that, whether of consumption in Rochester to try to get, you know, they are very interested by first getting information.

What what is known, what is not known.

You know, because before, to do anything, we need to have a better idea of what action we want to do, consent to a specific type of plastic, for example.

so I think we just need a dialog rather than just, fighting there a dialog.

Tell us a little bit more about that.

Like what role does, citizen science play in monitoring amphibian populations?

How can people get involved?

I think again, I think it's coming also from us is trying to find, you know, way of meeting, either people in the city, or, you know, events where we can communicate better.

And we started again.

We have, like, fliers now that have been trying to translate the science to the dry science, to something that could be, useful to people to understand, and then and then get questions from them because, again, it has to be a dialog, not just a once one side of demonstration kind of things.

Well, and I have to say, when I was mentioning this show that we were planning to a few people every single person lit up like, everyone wants to talk about this.

So it is curious, like, why aren't more people talking about it?

Bonnie from Rochester, welcome to Environmental Connections.

I think you have a comment.

Bonnie, are you there?

Is that me?

yeah.

Are you Bonnie?

No, I'm Ruth.

Oh, okay.

Ruth.

sorry about that, Ruth.

I know that, you want to know more about toads?

I believe.

Let's ask, well, what's your question for our panel here?

Yeah.

So I actually also run an organic farm, in Victor, and, we do have a lot of vernal pools and our sections of woods.

I try and keep, sort of healthy swamps and woods all around my farm because it helps with biodiversity, which helps with organic farming.

and we have a lot of vernal pools in our woods because we used to raise, pastured pork in the woods, and they sort of created some for us.

But I was wondering about American toads, whether they also breed in vernal pools, because those are great to have around.

And I do have a lot of them.

But anything I can do to sort of help their population, I'd love to do.

Oh, okay.

Well, that's a great question.

who wants to take that?

We want to talk about toads, doctor bear.

what I know is toads, although they are, you know, more terrestrial than, Phoebe than than typical frogs will have to get water for, production and get their tadpoles growing, so they need to be in water.

Okay.

And, I, I know in general, toads survey and testing system were the fodder for a long while.

God, the tadpoles.

so there's a fatter, way of, involve, which is we don't think about.

That's fine.

Fibs.

Yeah, it's a really good point.

Now, let me try to get to Bonnie.

Bonnie, are you there?

Yes, I am okay.

Sorry about that.

Just a moment ago.

Okay, that's the answer.

I can also tell you about the toads.

Oh, well, I can answer that question.

Okay.

because toads will will breed in any.

They will breed in water, left entire tracks.

And that's a really tough thing because the tadpoles won't develop ashes.

The water doesn't last long enough.

So vernal pools would be are very important to toads, because they will last long enough for toads to breed in them.

as I said, they will just breed in any kind of water.

But the other comment I wanted to make, and that includes frogs and toads, is that if we did not have frogs and toads, mosquito populations and other insects that eat crops would be rampant.

You know, toads and frogs eat thousands of mosquitoes and other insects that are harmful to agriculture.

So I just wanted to make sure that we appreciated these amphibians for this other simple thing that often gets overlooked.

Oh, thank you Bonnie, you are incredibly helpful.

I'm kind of glad you came on second, even though it was my mistake.

Let's go back to talking about community involvement.

Rob, I want to turn to you.

How can residents get involved in local conservation efforts?

Are there any volunteer opportunities or any advice that you might have to someone listening to this?

Well, certainly, I think we can encourage people in our community to join organizations like friends of the Arboretum, which provides opportunities to do volunteer effort and and actually to do outreach also.

And, you know, I can speak to Pittsford, but every community has, organizations like us.

And I think the more that we can all be number one informed on how does our ecosystem work.

And it's unfortunate that our educational system, we don't teach people what kind of trees grow in western New York.

what's their life cycle?

What what are the secondary trees that pioneer the fields and start to take over?

What our native plants.

What conditions do they need?

And so I think moving all of those issues along are something that we can do at a very local level.

And that's actually what we're trying to do.

It sort of a micro level with the the arboretum and the vernal Brown Pond project here in Pittsford.

And I can imagine that children are fascinated by frogs.

Margo, is there a role for children in these efforts?

Oh, absolutely.

And we're lucky to have, Mr. Tom B, because they're coming.

He's a wetland expert.

He's probably been building wetlands and ponds for over 35 years.

It'll be here on April 25th, 26 and 27th.

And he actually hopes to get started on Thursday the 24th.

But, he says that when children get a chance to walk around in their in the mud with their boots on and see the frogs and tadpoles and everything up close to that, that, there's a lot of, scientific evidence that their math and science scores improve, that they're, they're happier and in general.

And, there's another group here in Rochester called Rochester Ecology, partners with Chris Whitmire.

And I met one of the teachers who is over at school 12, I think the Frederick Douglass School.

And, and they have a nature based, learning, program there.

And, it's it's so exciting to see that sort of thing happening and in the city, no less, which is the most important thing.

That is one thing.

A frog has would like to do more of is to to have more children.

And, classes come out from the city.

And I have sometimes gone into the city with the book and, and a little, PowerPoints and so forth, but, it's, there was once someone running on integrating the city and suburbs, as the county legislator.

And, that person didn't win.

And so they're still terribly separated.

it would be nice if we could share more resources with with the city.

Well, and and vice versa.

Rob.

Many communities struggle to balance conservation with development.

What are some practical ways that towns and cities can ensure that these priorities coexist?

Well, that's a great topic because I think, Margot and I were just talking a few minutes before this program about the economic and livability benefits of conserving land.

And, you know, if you look at a, you know, the real estate around Minute Ponds Park, it's very expensive real estate because everybody wants to live where you have, access to the natural environment.

And so the remedy isn't, many Ponds Park, but it's creating more spaces like that in all of our communities.

So everybody has access to it.

And, you know, we're fortunate here in the city of Rochester to have the Olmstead Park system that in almost every quadrant of the city, you have walkable access to a major, area of open space and, and a natural setting.

And I think, you know, that needs to be part of our planning process.

There's been a lot of talk over the last few decades about walkable planning, but especially because of what we learned in the Covid experience that, we need to integrate access, walkable access to wild, open space is something that we all need for our physical and mental health.

and are there funding sources that municipalities can tap into for wetland restoration projects?

there are and they they tend to run in cycles.

but if you check the, New York State Department of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation, there are usually programs available for a variety of, of environmental purposes through that agency.

As we start to close up, Doctor Rivera, I want to turn to you.

Looking ahead, what is the most urgent action that we or that is needed to protect Rochester is frogs.

Well, again, infectious disease is certainly a big brain.

So when we talk about chytrid, there's another chytrid.

that, in fact more, salamanders.

So far, it has not been, detected in us, in America, actually.

And there's been a task force that has been prepare here, too, because we unfortunately, we think that it will come sooner or later.

and what we will do because, you know, for example, the smoky Mountains are an area with this, the higher diversity of salamanders, if the this fungus come there, it will wipe out the world, ecosystem.

and and so there's little we can do in terms of treatments.

It's more like prevention.

but again, we come to the trades, that's a big things.

and the other part is, you know, appetite destruction.

I think the other side is trying to beef up, place for amphibian marker.

Yes.

the double edged sword.

When Rob was talking about we need the green space, and then lots of people will will go there and live there, and then they will pollute that area.

So it's it's, it's a balance that we hope the environmentalists will, will win and, that the homeowners themselves will help to preserve the very land that they, they value.

The other thing is, is that, I read that that if you put, frogs with chytrid in a sun, a bath or sauna, that this will mitigate the, the disease.

So even you could put, cinder blocks and stack them up around your property and, and makes little homes and, would, possibly increase their immune system.

Well, I think that's a very positive note that we can end on.

I know that there are so much more we could discuss around these issues, but unfortunately, that's all for today's episode of Environmental Connections.

I want to thank my guests.

doctor Jack, Robert, Doctor Margaret Fast, Margo Fass, and Robert Corby for their invaluable insights.

Frogs.

There's just a lot more to discuss.

And as you were saying, Doctor Robert, let's let's keep discussing it.

Keep thinking about it.

We get involved today, right in your own backyards from Sky news.

I'm Jasmine Singer.

Thanks for making today's environmental connections.

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