>> Shirley Chisholm arrived on the national scene in Washington, D.C., in 1969 to channel her beliefs into political change.

She was the first black woman in the U.S. House of Representatives and she brought her feminist sensibilities with her.

She was on bought and on Bost University of Kentucky professor Anastasia car would has penned a riveting definitive account of Chisholm's life that blends the personal and political experiences of the late social justice warrior.

We'll talk with doctor Anastasia car would now on connections.

♪ ♪ Welcome to connections today.

I'm Renee Shaw.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

Shirley Chisholm was the first African American woman in Congress and the first woman and African-American to seek the nomination for president of the United States from one of the 2 major political parties, a full length academic biography on Chisholm is authored by today's guest doctor.

Anastasia Kerr would the book is titled Shirley Chisholm, a Champion, a black feminist power politics.

Doctor Kerr would has a personal connection to the famed politician and she'll talk about that and also her work as an associate professor of history at the University of Kentucky and director at UK's Commonwealth Institute for Black Studies.

It is a pleasure to connect with you in person.

Likewise, I've been inviting your work for years.

Well, thank you.

And we have been highlighting your great work with the institute that you've been doing.

So congratulations on that An idea whose time has come is an understatement.

So we thank you for all that you're doing in the scholastic community.

Let's talk about this book first.

I want you to talk about the personal connection and there's a picture in the book that I has kind of talks or portrays this connection and can get us started.

Tell us about your connection to the late Shirley Chisholm.

Well, when I was a very young girl.

I saw the photograph that you're referring to.

>> That my parents had and it said photograph of Shirley Chisholm.

I didn't know who she was at the time.

I'm the manager of her campaign for Massachusetts.

The treasurer of her campaign for Massachusetts whose name was then Wendy Kerr would and who was the future mother of?

Anastasia Kerr would haha.

And then.

And whose name is Steve Kerr?

he is journalist and as a journalist who was covering the campaign and he was the future And so there they are.

And they're all sharing a laugh.

And a hotel room in Cambridge, Massachusetts, when Chism was there on a campaign stop running for president in 1972.

Yeah.

I saw this image as a young girl did not recognize Shirley Chisholm.

I thought she was Sally because they dressed in a similar stylish Shirley Chisholm was a clothes horse.

>> Oh, yes, she was a snappy dresser was and and so to come full circle literally and not even have known, perhaps that this is where you would be and to detail her life with such vividness and truth.

Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

I had no idea, but I did grow up was the idea that black women could run for president?

Yeah.

And I even considered a run for president When I was.

But then about a 3rd or 4th grade.

But I decided against.

So what turned you off?

I decided that I didn't really think I'd like the job.

That would be really hard job.

And I just didn't want to have to hassle with that.

Well, you know, it's never too late.

>> Really?

Yeah.

Really know for sure that your instincts are right.

Yeah, thanks.

Well, of course is she came on the scene during a very turbulent time and became a symbol of of of liberal politics.

And when we talk about the term black feminist power politics, there may be folks in our audience who don't quite understand the meaning of that.

How would you define it for them?

Yeah, that that's OK, because this is a term that I made up >> it's a combination of black power, black feminism and politics she was at the intersection of all of those things.

So she was a black feminist who was coming out of a black power tradition.

All that means is that she wanted self-determination and an equal share of power for and in particular, the people in society who >> would we?

>> Set called the least of us.

So black people, brown people, women, young people, poor people LGBTQ people.

She really thought that to make democracy work for everybody that the government should have responsibility to share power equally right.

>> And she arrived just years after 4 years after the passage of the Civil Rights Act.

So democracy was even being redefined and away.

Exactly.

No more representative of of all people that had been denied that representation before.

So I'm sure she felt the weight of I kind of work to do here.

Oh, absolutely.

And she saw herself when she got to Congress.

She saw herself as not just representing her district, which was Bedford, Stuyvesant in Brooklyn.

One of the biggest black neighborhoods in New York City.

People think of Harlem, right?

Right.

But that stock I was a huge flag neighborhood, especially care being black she saw her responsibility not just to that district but to black people and 2 women across the country.

Yeah.

Was she embraced by African-Americans at?

Yeah, we'd we know that she had said that.

Well, misogyny and sexism were just as strong as racism and her experience >> so can you talk about was she shot and and by the African-American community who thought, OK, you're stepping.

>> And to a place that you shouldn't quite be just act.

You know, I'm going.

>> I sure do.

And, you know, I guess it then it it makes There's no one African-American community.

Yeah.

So it depends on who.

You were talking Whether they supported her are not.

And there were some pretty significant support among black people in 1972.

Over whether to support her or not.

but and she was.

>> some cyst were very suspicious of Some felt like she hadn't paid her dues.

She didn't come up through.

>> Some of the big civil rights She wasn't southern she came from the north and she was she had a supreme self-confidence that sometimes rubbed people the wrong way, right?

Right hard.

The way she carried herself and the way she had a way of >> of presenting herself and her vernacular and I don't know what she would call this.

The just the way she communicated.

Oh, yeah.

Didn't always said well with folks.

Well, she it's just it was from Barbados.

Certain her family was from Barbados and she was born in the United States, but sent spent 6 years of her life on Barbados.

She had a very fast clip and she's been almost a little bit of a list come.

And she was just rapid fire and she could.

She was an electric speaker.

She could light a crowd and she KET it.

She KET she KET that since at least college when she was in the debating club.

And so she could really get the crowd going and she was resented even at the 1972 Democratic National Convention might some people thought that she was a demagogue for trying to get the caucuses riled But she was not the case.

She was fighting for the fate of her campaign right?

So was she really fighting to win?

What was the overall long game strategy of her?

>> Seeking the Democratic nomination for president in 1972.

Well, it it comes back to this black feminist power politics idea.

And at the heart of that is that you make coalitions so people have identities intersect.

They might not be the same.

They might not be identical, but they're going to have a point of common interest that will come together.

And when you bring people together over a point of common interests, they put pressure on the political system.

What she wanted to do was not to necessarily win, but to make a coalition to put pressure on the existing power in the Democratic Party.

In the Democratic National Committee on the platform and on the eventual nominee for the president of the United States.

Was she successful?

No haha.

I know the the coalition fell apart and back to the question that you ask a few minutes ago about.

Did other black people support her?

Well, in this there was a notable group of black politicians who were who actively worked against her in pulling that coalition together because she was trying to accrue a sort of critical mass of this was the last contested presidential election.

She was trying to pull together this critical mass so that then they would be a bargaining chip to say, okay, nominee and would have been your country or George McGovern right to my right OK?

Well, you know, we really want to see a woman vice president.

They need to make your nominee a the one that you pick, we want to see a black man as secretary of health, education and welfare.

That was before we had.

That was the bureau we had so it was to bring pressure was is it was a coalition that would bring pressure on the existing power in the Democratic Party >> And the response from White feminists.

So wait, feminists were in general supportive and and talked about being supportive and expressed their support.

>> Through clapping for her when she spoke to the Women's caucus and saying how great she was when it came down to voting for her as delegates they did not.

So they talk the talk but did not necessarily walk the walk.

There are a few important Betty Ford and stood for her for you for the entire Democratic National Convention.

But in in general, she had.

Lukewarm support, but at least it wasn't actively working against her like some of her colleagues, even in the Congressional Black Caucus, right?

Yeah.

Who wore her allies?

True allies at almost accomplices as we would say today.

Yes.

Yeah.

Well, the most well-known one at the convention was Ron Dellums.

He was a and from Oakland, California, in fact, his seat is now held by Barbour who is a voice on the left and an anti-racist twice in Congress.

Barbara Lee was mentored by Shirley Chisholm during that campaign.

And after that.

So Ron Dellums was really sick at the convention and was unable to make the nominating speech for Shirley Chisholm.

But he also head been negotiated by the Democratic Party and he felt his seat in California was in danger.

If he did not throw his support behind McGovern the night before the nomination speeches and those kind of actions did she understand?

>> That that's the political game.

That's how it's played.

Sure.

She was the most savvy political mind could ever find.

She KET how this went.

She was just frustrated that more people didn't understand her purpose of creating this militia and putting pressure so that everybody said, oh, she wants to be a power broker she's crazy.

She's got an ego.

She did have an ego, but she also was really pragmatic.

She KET how to count and so she understood why Dellums had to do what he did.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Your book.

I mentioned how it's a blend of the personal and the political you really work to dimissed defy Shirley Chisholm.

It's almost like we uphold her on this pedestal and this hero status.

Many not all do.

But there is a human side to her flashing flash that you did.

You give light to can you share with us?

A couple of examples where this is the making of the Shirley Chisholm that we uphold today.

I I always thought that Shirley Chisholm was a combination of her historical its New York and Democratic Party politics of the middle 20th century.

But then there's this one tangible thing.

Her temperament and her family and her upbringing.

And those are deeply human.

And so, you know, her upbringing on the one hand, her father who she idolized was a big supporter of Franklin Delano and also was a supporter of Marcus Garvey and she adored her father.

So she had similar interests to her father, but she was also very outspoken and there were 4 sisters in her family for girls of them.

She was the one with the biggest now hearses would probably attest are absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

She was the one who said and she she would say in interviews I was the most.

I was the best all of my sisters at school.

Haha and actually her sister I I was able to interview you sister one of them before she passed away and she said now come on.

She KET that I was at better in school that she and I was the one was the academic star.

I mean, she was no slacker.

Sure, but but the sister was it was really a star.

Yeah, it's things like that.

Unfortunately, her family did have a falling out over an inheritance as sometimes happens and and in this case, it was money just sums father left to her through it a life insurance policy.

he also had left a modest inheritance that all the girls split with their month But then there was this one fund designated for Shirley.

And then they're sisters and her mother felt that she should share it But this happened in the early 1960's.

Her first political campaign was 1964.

Running first New York State anything and nobody would disagree with the fact that running for office costs a lot of money, right?

She needed that money.

And so it's a bit of a difficult choice.

Sure.

Sure.

Did they ever reconcile?

Not not She really didn't speak to her mother or 2 of her for the rest of their lives.

The one sister spoke to me her sister Muriel, they were they were cordial.

but never And that was a real loss.

yeah, yeah.

Did she believe not only made with the family Fisher's there, but also that everyone else misunderstood her, right?

Does she just feel she was just misunderstood?

And does she carry that to her grave?

You know, I'm sometimes she did.

she felt that others imputed motives to her that really she didn't have and that frustrated on the other hand, she didn't care a lot about what people thought of her.

Not surprising to hear.

No, but it she in in as much as it would impede what she wanted to do.

Yeah.

Then she was frustrated.

Like with E presidential campaign.

Just like, look, I'm just trying to create this coalition so we can have some real change in this country.

you know, but he's saying, oh, she's a stocking horse for McGovern.

She was.

She's a self-aggrandizing, etcetera, etcetera.

She said, no, I'm just trying to pull you all together.

And that frustrated her.

But as far as what others thought of her, she she like to KET the record set straight.

But she also just kind of did what she was going to dry and moved We do know that she was a loud advocate for abortion rights.

And so if we can contextualize that on the other side of Roe v Wade, where we are now.

Can you imagine water Shirley Chisholm would be doing and this moment when it comes to reproductive rights and I can tell you what she was doing before Roe v Wade.

Which in this state legislature in New York.

There was a bill for that that she worked on for several years.

That would have made abortion a decision between a woman and her doctor.

So not quite not as open as Roe v Wade, but she was working on liberalizing abortion laws in New York.

And so my guess is she would probably go back to R whatever spotty she serving in and do the lobbying and do the research have hearings.

Have some bring this issue to the floor of Congress.

Her political genius was in the connections that she So it's very appropriate that we're sitting here on connect, Yahoo.

That was her political that she could bridge with folks who really had different points of view from her.

But she would find a common interest, right?

OK, what's the common interest with abortion?

Maybe we maybe it's that we want to make sure that children grow up with adequate resources with high quality childcare with parents who are able to take care of them.

So what what can we where can I come at this issue with that argument?

That's interesting because we're in such a seemingly bifurcated system now where it's not it's either or it's not both right, man.

And so how would she function into 100 18th Congress?

I believe it is.

Would she have relevance or try to assert relevance and the environment.

Now she would try, but she would have to work in a different way because there from the reports that I hear there just isn't that kind of connection and communication if she had, she was married twice.

She had Jack Kemp of her second wedding week.

They yeah, they they they were cordial and she and she KET how to he KET how to get people to cooperate with her.

yet she didn't compromise.

She didn't do it through To saying, OK, well, you know, Okay.

Yeah, it's true.

I don't really think that, you know, that abortion should be solely a citizen of a woman alone.

Know she would say that, right?

She would say just but to make this politically possible.

Let's see what we can come together on.

It's a very different but it's building coalition and if in any issue abortions, a great example.

In any issue.

If you look for somebody who has a common interest with then that's the beginning of something to build with.

All right.

That's what she would say.

That's what she would say.

And and and for back in the day who were also good chess players at that, he really admired the and didn't see there political opposite nemesis or an adversary in the personal space, right?

It's >> I don't know.

It's a little different than it than it used to be.

Even though the times were just as turban, if not not more.

So I'm curious about what you hope, your students, the young minds that you're molding now will take away for those who might have their own political ambitions from the story and experiences of Shirley Chisholm.

Yeah, I am.

I want my students to start understanding the significance of history as guiding those of us now.

You can learn solutions from history you can you can.

Some groups possibilities.

And so to go back and see what are the possibilities that she exploited and a deeply sexist and racist time.

It's not as if she didn't encounter both but she still had these capacities to figure out, OK, well, where can I push And and that was really her So I would tell my state, I do tell my students you find out what the history is, where the lay of the land is and then figure out where it is that you can push right?

>> Do you see your students having an interest in entering the political sphere and away when they don't have to be run for elected office.

But to be.

>> A policy walk or, you know, work in a government agency or NGO or even be a lobbyist and legislative agent?

>> Well, you know, I would love to see more of them doing That I have had a few over the years.

They tend to be really good >> there's something about politics going into politics in a really practical way it suits people who know what's going on and who like to pay attention right?

you know, I'm I'm thinking now of of Shirley Chisholm who said in her hotel room in the DeWitt Clinton Hotel in upstate New York when she was working at Albany, the state And she would just have all the reports.

And and draft legislation spread out around or on her bed and she would do her and she had that curiosity.

And so.

I'm going into politics with a sense of curiosity and sense of possibility about how can we work this as is what I I think the best students have.

And you still have to have hope even in a seemingly jaded atmosphere.

>> A couple of minutes remaining.

We do want to talk about the Commonwealth Institute for Black Studies we've been highlighting some of the work that you all have been doing at a time when there's lots of conversations about diversity and inclusiveness and >> what miss?

Where is the place for the Institute to leverage levelheaded conversation about the importance of knowing all of one's history and everyone else's history for that fight.

Yes, So the Commonwealth Institute for Black Studies are we like to call?

It seems.

>> Her brothers and Haha I was aware the outreach in the research arm for African-American and Africana studies and one win say black studies.

What we mean is looking at having an angle of vision that is centered and looking from the perspectives of black people worldwide.

We cover we like to say we cover Appalachia to Them and when you put that perspective at the center, you start to see different things and you start to ask different questions.

we have people in Sibs.

I'm doing from studying slavery in Kentucky in the 18th and 19th century to machine that will go through oral histories of South African prisoners and out and pick out some of the common that would researchers years and years to so.

You know, we have this huge spectrum and need to know these things.

What we're actively creating knowledge and we are then reaching out with that knowledge so that people can apply it and use it as is needed.

Yeah, we'll have to have him come back and talk about that and your other books.

>> That she threatened.

I can't wait to hear about your next work will have to ask you that question the next time.

Thank you.

On the stage occur, what it's been a pleasure and a delight.

Thank you all for watching today as well.

KET up with us on Facebook and all the other social media platforms and listen to our show on podcast as well.

And watch just a week nights at 6.30, Eastern 5.30, central for Kentucky edition.

I'll see you soon.

Take good care.

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