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David: Welcome to Chat Box.

I'm David Cruz.

There's a lot on the agenda today marking one year since the killing of Seabrook's in Patterson.

Not what has changed if anything since.

And we look at an exhibit set a pretty new works historic role in fashion but we begin with public school funding.

Governor Murphy posted last week about fully funding public schools but it still left 140 districts facing cuts to their budget.

Our first guest has been a vocal critic of that issue.

This centered joins us now.

Good to see you.

>> Thank you, David, for having me.

>> Did I get all the counties?

>> Only four.

And I think that is enough for one party.

David: For the lay present that is not have kids in public schools you hear the governor say he is fully funding schools and you think, good job.

But that is not exactly what is happening here, right?

Guest: Let's give the governor of applause for increasing the amount of money the state is putting into schools.

We have a constitutional requirement to try to do everything we can so that regardless of your ZIP Code students are getting a fair and adequate education and they are funded properly.

There is a formula that is supposed to take care of that.

David: The school funding formula is something we always hear about.

The SSRI, the S two.

You can with the adherence -- acronyms.

Go ahead.

Sen. Zwicker: the funding formula is of us to be reevaluated every three years and it has been more than a decade since we have looked at it.

We are in a post-COVID world with transportation costs through the roof.

New Jersey is known as a place for the highest quality special education and it has gotten more and more expensive.

We have a formula that really needs to be reevaluated.

Outside that, you mentioned s2.

S2 was a law passed in 2018 to make sure districts receiving too much money under the formula were getting what they deserved and those getting too little were getting what they should have gotten all along.

That was phased in over a bunch of years.

What has happened, of course, is now we end up with winners and losers.

the reason I have been so upset is because each of the school districts that have lost money, we are told -- they were told ahead of time to plan for cuts.

They said we don't like that, but we can accept that.

Last week couple days after the governor's budget address cuts became much higher than they ever anticipated.

Or, ever could have possibly budgeted for.

An example.

Hillsboro, that's a town I represent.

They were told to expect a cut of about 250 thousand dollars.

Because they are smart budget people they planned for a budget cut of up to $400,000.

The number that came out was $2.7 million.

How do you possibly plan for that?

They have cut everything they possibly could.

The only thing left is to cut teachers and staff and increase class sizes and that is unacceptable.

David: When the governor says he is fully funding the school funding formula, when he says he is fully funding schools, he means he is fully funding the school funding formula.

That is the rub.

Because, the formula itself, you and others say that is flawed.

What is wrong with it?

How do you fix that?

Sen. Zwicker: The chair of the Senate education committee is coming next week, going to convene a hearing on this exact topic.

How do you fix it?

You bring a group of experts that are experts in school funding at public school funding and New Jersey public school funding around the table and essay from 2000 8-2024 -- from 2008-25 a lot of things have changed.

What can you do?

Now can we go back to that and get a formula that will truly be fair and modern regardless of where you live in New Jersey.

That is the long-term goal we have to do.

Meantime, we have to do something to protect education in 2024 and 2025.

That is also what I am trying to do short term.

We have a short-term thing to do protecting education now and a longer-term thing, as you were asking, to fix the formula with people a lot smarter and more experienced than me sitting around the table.

David: Some of your towns, Hillsboro, South Brunswick, Lebanon borough, others, why did they have their budget cuts?

What changed from one year to the next that in some cases so significantly changed the funding?

Sen. Zwicker: I wish I could answer that.

I have asked.

David: Is there something in the SFRA that says if you don't press a lever two this happens?

Sen. Zwicker: For instance if your student enrollment goes down, you should get less money.

You can account for that.

That is fine and fair.

There are also things related to, well, each account should put in their fair share.

That seems reasonable.

What has changed all of a sudden is a town like Hillsboro, South Brunswick, and others you have mentioned and more, they are trying to put in their fair share but running into a bunch of different issues that I am happy to talk about.

But, they do not understand why their fair share has changed throw -- so dramatically.

For instance, last year South Brunswick was told what we call the well factor went up by over $1 billion in one year.

When you talk to the mayor and the Council, the Board of Education, they tell you that's not possible.

David: What is the well factor?

Sen. Zwicker: It says if you are a wealthier town you should put more money into the schools.

David: Got you.

Sen. Zwicker: So South Brunswick is a middle-class town.

I live in South Brunswick and all of a sudden they're well factor went up by $1 billion -- there well factor went up by $1 billion.

They asked why and did not get an answer.

Hillsboro's wealth factor, they are assuming went up by some enormous amount but they have no answer.

How do you plan for that?

School budgets are due in the next 4-6 weeks.

Now you have an unexpected cut and you have to put in front of your Board of Education your budget for the next school year.

If we cannot fix this quickly, teachers will lose jobs and that's unacceptable.

David: You have a bill up to allow towns to blow past the 2% local tax cap if they face and aid cut to their schools.

It sounds to me like that bill need to, no?

Sen. Zwicker: Well it has guardrails.

I would disagree with the blow passed part of it.

Guardrails are already in place.

Take a town like South Brunswick.

They are up against the to percent cap that Governor Christie put in.

They know that if the state won't give them any more money they can go to the town to get more money, but they can't, because of the 2% cap.

The guard rail you are asking about is that they can only do that up to the amount they lost from the current round.

So in the case of South Brunswick that is a couple hundred thousand dollars.

So instead of 2% it might be 2.1%.

But currently they can't do anything if we don't allow this to change.

David: Lastly and off-topic there is a bill in front of I think your committee Monday.

Regarding Oprah.

The open Public records act.

Serious reforms did that.

Have you looked into that?

A lot of us in the press think it stinks.

What are your thoughts?

Sen. Zwicker: There is absolutely a need to modernize Opra, the open Public records act.

It is being used for commercial reasons that have nothing to do with white people or the press like yourself need -- why people or the press like yourself need access to a variety of different records.

The question is whether the bill in the current drafted form is increasing transparency and modernization or decreasing as.

You and your colleagues have pointed out a variety of provisions in their where it looks like it will decrease transparency.

I have a problem with that and other people have a problem with that.

We are in active discussions over the next few days.

Before we get to the hearing Monday.

David: Can't throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

Senator Andrew Zwicker thank you for coming on.

This week marked the first anniversary of the death of Najee Seabrooks killed by Patterson police after an hours long standoff last year.

The irony was Najee Seabrooks, a crisis intervention specialist with the Patterson Healy connective was himself having a mental health crisis.

The police would not allow his colleagues to render assistance that day.

Calls for change led to some change.

Today we examine where Paterson is in March of 2024.

Joining us is Weldon McWilliams the pastor of Christ Church in Paterson.

I should say, Weldon McWilliams the fourth?

Pastor McWilliams: I will take that.

David: When we first talked it was amid the sadness and anger of the death of someone like Najee Seabrooks.

Can you remind people who Najee Seabrooks was?

Pastor McWilliams: He was part of the Patterson healing collect event and antiviolence prevention worker with established good relationships with members of the community and he was trying to better the community.

David: In a lot of ways a comeback kid.

He had it tough but got himself together and that lead to extra anger and sadness.

Since then, a takeover of the local police department.

A new emphasis on alternatives to policing.

Arrive together.

Let's unpack a couple of those.

Crime is down, says the city, and community relations have improved.

All true or fantasy?

Pastor McWilliams: I do not know if the statistics say one thing but I think if you go into the community sent out to those within the communities I am not sure how much we might be feeling those things.

We want to see improvement in resources.

We want to see a change in some of the tangible ways of life.

We need more resources in the community.

We need to attack other areas like poverty.

We need to improve on those things so people and feel the change.

David: If there are statistics of the mayors and others put out there, the real feel it's things are as they were?

Pastor McWilliams: For many perception is the reality.

If things do not feel a certain way, I mean, despite what statistics might say, a person has to feel that.

I know we are less than one year in the sense that we have called for many reforms and changes.

I don't know how fast some of the tangible changes can be felt but I will say that perception is a reality and there are still a lot of things that need to happen in the city of Patterson for people to begin to feel like the changes happening.

David: What are you hearing from your congregation talking about life in the city?

Pastor McWilliams: The concerns of my congregation tend to be the same they have been for years.

We want to see, definitely, a change in the level of crime.

We want to see more resources coming to the city of Paterson so the residence of Paterson has many options available to them.

We believe the lack of resources contributes to some of the climate of what we see in Paterson.

We want to see an increase in resources.

We want better housing.

We want to see a drop in those that are impoverished.

Those are things that I think if we focus on them and try to address the issues with creating more resources, you will fill -- feel the change and see the change as well.

David: When you talk about the underlying conditions, jobs, lack of opportunity in Patterson and in the county.

How much is the conversation about that nowadays because you can take over any department and fashion statistics to say what you want them to say.

But, the reality is someone does not automatically go from childhood into criminality.

There is a process there.

A lot of that begins with a school system that is close to a state takeover.

Jobs, you can't find jobs really.

There is no industry in Paterson for that.

How do you address those underlying conditions?

Pastor McWilliams: These are some things I hear a lot from my congregants and other residents of Paterson.

We have to address underlying issues.

We have to get resources that will bring forth jobs and a better quality of education.

That will bring in decent affordable housing.

These are all things members of my congregation are talking about.

These are the things needed to improve Paterson.

Once we see improvement on these things we will see improvement in other areas.

As long as we only address issues at the surface level and do not really go deeper into what is under the surface to address those underlying systematic issues, we will always feel that Paterson is not where it needs to be and is lacking.

David: All of those things lead to challenges for everybody's mental health.

How much has that been a conversation in your congregation, just trying to survive in your head?

Pastor McWilliams: Again, not just in my congregation but in Paterson, mental health, the unfortunate death of brother Najee Seabrooks helped sign -- shine more of a light on mental health and its importance, but some of the everyday importance people in Paterson deal with are enough to contribute to mental instability.

Literally it's a life of survival.

Nobody wants to live a life where they feel like they are just surviving every single day.

That is what I am speaking about when I talk about addressing some of the underlying issues.

How do we move Paterson from a place where residents feel they are just surviving to a place where people can feel like they are living life and living it abundantly.

I do not think Paterson is at that place yet.

I believe there are many organizations and many members of the Paterson community that would like to see us get there and we are trying to move in the direction they are advocating for to make a better Paterson.

David: Do you feel any sense of optimism?

Pastor McWilliams: I feel some optimism in the sense that I know people remain organized.

We have people that will continue to fight despite what it may look like or feel like.

People are interested in uplifting Paterson and I am optimistic that those people will remain -- will be victorious.

David: Good to see you.

Give her coming on.

Pastor McWilliams: Have a blessed evening.

David: You might know new work as a hotbed for music or a home to Great American writers and poets by the city has left a mark beyond her breweries and the transportation industry.

Newark connected designers have been influential in fashion.

Now the Newark Museum tells that story in an energetic and you -- new exhibit called the story of Newark fashion.

The guest curator Kristen J Owens joins us now.

Welcome to Chat Box.

Kristin: Thank you for having me.

David: It did not surprise me that Newark was a center of jewelry and accessories because of course, dating back to the 19th century, in fact.

This exhibit points to the ateliers of the 50's and 60's.

Who were they?

Kristen: Emily Miles and Wesley Tan were transplants to Newark, New Jersey, both born and raised in the South, Tennessee and North Carolina.

There he -- they made their way to Newark because of close family members and became very pivotal, important figures in terms of the history of Black fashion.

Wesley Tan was one of the first Black designers to have a space on 7th Avenue an important spot in New York City for the garment district and went on to be very involved in our community hosting fashion shows and interior design workshops, another one of his passions in addition to fashion and Emily Miles was an amazing modeling coach, a milliner.

That means she made hats for women.

She was also known for founding the Beltway charm school, a school that trained tons of different models and talent like Grace Jones, Whitney Houston Amanda number of others.

David: You hear about the Newark sound in jazz with their young and Jimmy Smith and house music, club Zanzibar, Tony Humphries.

Is there an equivalent of designer or fashion trends that are distinctly Newark?

Kristen: that's interesting.

I think you will see in the show that the answer is no.

Everybody in the show has their own very distinct style based on their influences.

For example one of the generation -- one of the designers is first generation library in American made out of a fabric central to West Africa.

Other designers are drawn to other kinds of fabric like one known for using that fabric because the flexibility and comfort.

I would not sure -- say there is one aesthetic for the designers but there is a through-line in that they are all very committed to community.

One thing people will see when they see the show is an intergenerational collaboration and mentorship.

David: Tell us about some of the designers featured and where we see some of their influence.

Kristen: We included work by an artist named Jerry Gantz who is known for in the 80's starting off with text art and graffiti.

He was a mentor to a lot of other artists and designers in the community.

When folks come to the show they will see his work and how he had faded textiles with -- hand-painted textiles with paint and bleach and people he was in community with like Tyrone Shibley and Marco Hall that took fabrics he designed and incorporated it into their gowns.

David: Narciso Rodriguez is a name familiar to a lot of people as well.

Kristen: Narciso Rodriguez and Stephen Burroughs are the two central pieces of the exhibition both nationally and internationally numbered Narciso Rodriguez is Cuban American born and raised in Newark and eventually designed as address Michelle war when Barack Obama was elected president.

Stephen Burroughs born and raised in Newark known in the 70's for disco fashion and also participated in transformation moment in Black fashion history in general where he presented his designs in Paris as the only Black designer, part of a fashion show called the battle oversight in 1973 -- of verse I in 1973.

David: What are the physical features?

Is there a runway?

Kristen: The exhibit is not designed chronologically.

It is more that each designer has their own installation that kind of translates to the spirit of their work.

So Stephen Burroughs, I mentioned his designs represented on -- his designs are presented on a recreation of a runway and a video in the background shows the very important fashion show I mention he was a part of.

David: Tracy Norman serves as a curatorial advisor.

Less about her.

Kristen: Tracy Africa Norman is known in Newark and across the U.S. and internationally as a model.

She is known as one of the first Black transgender models working in the industry.

She was encouraged by a designer she met in Newark to pursue modeling and ended up stumbling into a casting call and was discovered by the photographer Irving Penn and immediately went to work and model for publications like Italian Vogue.

She is still modeling today.

David: You have a BA in fashion studies and a Masters in visual culture and costume studies at another Masters in Library and information sciences.

It is like this exhibit is at the intersection of all the things you have done.

Kristen: Totally.

Yeah, my work as, my interest in work and fashion is really connected to fashion as a way we can learn more about African-American history and culture.

So, I was very excited to be able to contribute expertise to this exhibition and of the library part comes in perfectly because you have to know how to do the research to make the thing come to life area it has been a beautiful melding of both.

It seems to be two totally separate career paths joining in one.

David: For sure.

So much of fashion is tied to music, queer identity, Black culture, all very much a part of Newark and its history.

We see that in the exhibit?

Kristen: Absolutely you do.

In terms of music I can think of one assembled specifically with the Stephen Burroughs portion of the show.

It will be music playing.

The music that was love and happiness by Al Green will be playing and that was the song he had playing when he was on the runway.

There are several designers in the show that identify as queer.

They really got involved in what does -- what is known as the underground ballroom scene making designs for folks who performed on the runway in ballroom in New York City and New Jersey and there is an amazing piece by a designer named Douglas says that was designing for a drag queen named Ma René who created a song called Ms. Honey that was assembled by Beyoncé on her Renaissance album and that shows the impact they have had on popular culture.

David: The exhibit runs through June 2.

Kristen J Owens is the guest curator.

Get to meet you and thank you for coming on with us.

Kristen: Thank you.

David: That is Chat Box for this week.

Thank you Pastor McWilliams and Pastor McWilliams -- Senator Zwicker for joining us.

You can find me on and more content including full episodes if you scan the QR code on your screen.

From all the crew at the Gateway Center in downtown Newark, thank you for watching and we will see you next week.

>> Major funding for Chat Box with David Cruz is provided by the members of the New Jersey education Association, making public schools great for every child.

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