>> AN AMERICAN TRAGEDY, IS GLOBALIZATION DEAD, AND NEW YORK'S MUSICAL CHAIRS.

NEW LEGISLATIVE DISTRICTS CREATE COMPETITION AND WILL LEAVE SOME POLITICANS OUT OF A JOB.

STAY TUNED.

"IVORY TOWER" IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ >> David: GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED THIS WEEK BY NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, MICHAEL TILLOTSON FROM SUNY CORTLAND, RICK FENNER FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY AND CHAD SPARBER FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

WE OPENED LAST WEEK'S PROGRAM TALKING ABOUT A MASS SHOOTING AND THIS WEEK, SADLY, WE ARE DOING IT AGAIN.

THE MURDER OF 19 CHILDREN AND 2 OF THEIR TEACHERS IN UVALDE, TEXAS, IS A STAIN ON AMERICA.

THE PAST FEW DAYS HAVE SEEN THE USUAL HAND WRINGING, AND THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS.

WHAT WE'VE NOT YET SEEN ARE ANY SERIOUS ATTEMPTS AT REDUCING THE CARNAGE.

SO NINA, ARE WE CONDEMNED TO A FUTURE IN WHICH THESE MASS KILLINGS ARE PART OF THE LANDSCAPE ?

>> DAVE, I DON'T THINK THAT WE ARE BUT MAKING THAT TO BE THE CASE IS WE HAVE TO MOVE BEYOND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE MOTIVATIONS BEHIND THE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THESE MASS SHOOTINGS.

IMAGINE, WE HAVE SOME 330 MILLION PEOPLE IN THE U.S. THAT POTENTIALLY MEANS 330 MILLION DIFFERENT REASONS TO WHY SOMEONE WOULD GO OUT AND CONSIDER ALSO THAT IN 2017, FIVE YEARS AGO, WHEN THE GENTLEMAN KILLED 59 PEOPLE IN IN LAS VEGAS, WOUNDED SOME 400 OTHERS, WE STILL DON'T KNOW.

THE F.B.I.

STILL DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HIS MOTIVATION WAS.

AND WE JOCKEY BACK AND FORTH AMONG OTHER EXPLANATIONS, FOR EXAMPLE.

THE ORLANDO SHOOTING WAS SUPPOSEDLY DUE TO HOMOPHOBIA, SANDY HOOK TO MENTAL ILLNESS AND IF WE GO WAY BACK TO COLUMBINE, WE HAVE SAID THAT WAS BECAUSE OF BULLYING.

AND AS THE STORIES ARE COMING OUT ABOUT UVALDE, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE GOING TO BLAME THE POLICE.

WE HAVE TO GET PAST THAT BECAUSE THERE PROBABLY WON'T BE A SINGULAR EXPLANATION AS TO MOTIVES.

BUT WE CAN MOVE TO IMPLEMENT PUBLIC POLICY REFORMS THAT WOULD HELP TO NOT NECESSARILY PREVENT BUT MITIGATE THE DAMAGE THAT COULD BE DONE.

AND I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE IN THE PUBLIC POLICY PROCESS, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IF WE THINK SERIOUSLY ABOUT THE SORT OF STAKES IN THIS GAME, ONLY 30% OF AMERICANS ACTUALLY OWN HANDGUNS.

AND MOST OF THEM OWN FOR PERSONAL PROTECTION.

SO SOME THINGS I THINK ARE POSSIBLE IN THE FUTURE ARE TO GO WITH THE 82% OF AMERICANS WHO SUPPORT SOME SORT OF BACKGROUND CHECKS FOR PRIVATE GUN SALES.

ALSO FOR GUN SHOWS.

THE 80-PLUS PERCENT OF AMERICANS WHO SUPPORT SOME SORT OF RED FLAG LAWS THAT WOULD PREVENT THOSE WHO HAVE POSTED ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

"I'M GOING TO GO OUT AND KILL A LOT OF PEOPLE."

OR FOLKS MENTALLY ILL, AND THERE ARE SOME OTHER PLACES WHERE I THINK THE POSSIBILITIES FOR BIPARTISAN COOPERATION ARE POSSIBLE.

>> SO THE 82% OF THE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO HAVE SOME SORT OF THESE POLICY CHANGES YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT, LIKE A LOT OF ISSUES, THE MAJORITY MIGHT WANT SOMETHING BUT IF IT CAN'T GET THROUGH CONGRESS, IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

MICHAEL?

>> I THINK SOMETIMES WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUBLIC POLICY, SOMETIMES IN THE GUN RIGHTS CONVERSATION, WE FORGET TO THE POWER OF THE IDEA OF EMOTIONAL APPEAL.

PARTICULARLY SURROUNDING GUN RIGHTS AND A CERTAIN SECTION OF THE CONSTITUENCY OF THE GOP.

FOR EXAMPLE, LET'S NOT FORGET THE EMOTIONAL APPEAL OF THE FORMER HOLLYWOOD ICON CHARLTON HESTON.

HE SAID TO AL GORE: "YOU'LL TAKE THIS GUN FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS.

:" "YOU'LL TAKE THIS GUN FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS."

THAT WAS REFLECTED BUMPER STICKERS AND T-SHIRTS AND OTHER POLITICALIZED ARTIFACTS, AND IT WAS THAT EXACT STATEMENT THAT BECAME A SORT OF SOCIALIZATION TOOL FOR THE NRA.

THAT SIMPLY BECAME A RALLYING CRY, SORT OF A MANTRA.

CALL FOR THE NRA IN ITS MOST FERVENT FOLLOWERS AND CHARLTON HESTON BECAME THE NRA MOSES, SO TO SPEAK.

NOT FOR THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, MOSES BUT THE SECOND AMENDMENT.

AND, THAT'S STILL UNDERSTOOD OF THE SORT OF RHETORICAL STAND FOR FREEDOM, A STAND FOR SELF SOVEREIGNTY, AUTONOMY AND A STAND FOR LIBERTY AND THE SECOND AMENDMENT WHICH IN THE EXTREME BODY POLITIC ON GUN RIGHTS, THEY TRANSFORM OR EXPOSE HIS WORDS INTO THEY ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE OUR GUNS.

AND LASTLY, IT IS NOT TOO LONG AGO THE PROBLEM APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE REJECTED AN AMENDMENT TO STUDY THE UNDERLYING CAUSES OF GUN VIOLENCE.

AND, IT IS ALSO WORTH NOTING THAT THE NRA ACCUSED THE CDC OF USING SCIENCE TO PROMOTE GUN CONTROL.

AND FOR ME, IT IS SIMPLY TRULY AMAZING HOW THE NRA AND GUN RIGHTS ADVOCATES WHO ARE OVERWHELMINGLY FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN AND PRO-LIFE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS ISSUE OF LIFE AND DEATH.

>> ARE THERE ANY STEPS RIGHT NOW -- NINA, CHAD, YOU MENTIONED A COUPLE OF THINGS, NINA, CHAD THAT YOU THINK COULD HAPPEN THAT COULD LEAD TO SOME REDUCTION IN THESE SHOOTINGS?

>> WELL, IN 2017, THERE WAS A GUNMAN WHO FIRED 60 ROUNDS AT GOP LAWMAKERS INJURING FIVE INCLUDING THEN HOUSE MAJORITY WHIP STEVEN SCALISE.

AND THAT DID NOT CHANGE GOP STANCE ON GUN CONTROL, I DON'T THINK THESE WILL EITHER.

WHAT THE GOP IS MORE INTERESTED IN AS NINA ALLUDED TO, THE RED FLAG LAWS AND MENTAL HEALTH INTERVENTIONS AND THAT SORT OF THING.

I UNDERSTAND THAT DEMOCRATS THINK THAT THOSE ARE INADEQUATE BUT I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE DEMOCRATS HAVE NOT PASSED LEGISLATION ON IT ANY WAY.

LOOK AT THE DATA, 73% OF SCHOOL SHOOTINGS COMMITTED BY PEOPLE AGES 13-19 AND THAT SUGGESTS THAT YOU CAN CONCENTRATE AND EXPAND FUNDING FOR MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, COUNSELING SERVICES INCLUDING COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY FOR MIDDLE SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL-AGED PEOPLE WITHOUT INVITING THE IRE OF THE NRA.

AND EVEN IF IT DOESN'T HAVE THE DIRECT BENEFIT OF LIKE REDUCING MASS SHOOTINGS, THERE WILL BE ANCILLARY BENEFITS TO THOSE COUNSELING SERVICES AS WELL.

SO THAT WOULD BE GOOD POLICY, WHY NOT DO IT?

>> BUT, I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT WE SHOULDN'T DO IT BUT I DO WORRY, CHAD, ABOUT SORT OF USING THIS ISSUE TO CREATE AN UNDUE WORRY BURDEN ON JUST ORDINARY ELEMENTARY SCHOOL CHILDREN.

NOW, I'M MINDFUL OF THE DAYS SOME OF US WILL REMEMBER, WE'LL ADMIT HOW OLD WE ARE, WHEN WE WOULD GO INTO THE HALLWAYS OF THE SCHOOLS AND PREPARE OURSELVES FOR A NUCLEAR ATTACK, RIGHT.

SO, I THINK SOME TRAINING IS THERE AS WAS DONE IN THE CASE OF UVALDE, BUT I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU THAT SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE AT THE LOCAL SCHOOL LEVEL BECAUSE CONGRESS ISN'T GOING TO ACT.

AND SO, HAVING AN ARMED SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER, HOWEVER UNPOPULAR THAT MAY BE FOR SOME PROGRESSIVES, THAT MAKES SENSE.

AND IF THAT ARMED SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER NEEDS TO HAVE SOME SORT OF BODY ARMOR THAT WOULD ENABLE HIM TO GO IN AND INSTEAD OF AS IN THE CASE OF UVALDE, THEY SIT OUTSIDE WAITING TO BE ABLE TO SHIELD THEMSELVES, I'M ALL FOR THAT.

>> BUT, NINA, LAST WEEK, THE SHOOTING WAS AT A SUPERMARKET.

AND THE ONE THAT CHAD TALKED ABOUT WAS AT A CONCERT.

AND THERE HAVE BEEN SHOOTINGS AT HOUSES OF WORSHIP.

ARE WE GOING TO PUT ARMED GUARDS EVERYWHERE?

I THINK THAT CHAD IS RIGHT.

I THINK THE DEMOCRATS NEED TO GO WITH THE MANCHIN-TOOMEY COMPROMISE BILL AND PUT THE SENATOR ON RECORD, WILL THEY BE ABLE TO BREAK THE FILIBUSTER, WILL 60 COME FORTH.

BECAUSE THOSE COMPROMISES ARE THE THINGS THAT AS BOTH OF YOU SAID, 80% OF AMERICANS FAVOR.

SO I THINK THAT WHILE IT IS NOT ENOUGH, IT IS A STARTING POINT.

SO I THINK THAT WHILE IT IS NOT ENOUGH, IT IS A STARTING POINT.

AND LET'S START PUTTING PEOPLE ON RECORD AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY AGREE WITH THERE'S REASONABLE THINGS.

>> I'M NOT SURE IF IT IS A PART OF THE MANCHIN-TOOMEY BILL THAT YOU REFERENCED BUT, SIMPLE THINGS LIKE, A LICENSING REQUIREMENT.

>> I DON'T THINK IT HAS THE UNIVERSAL SUPPORT THE RED FLAG AND THE BACKGROUND CHECKS DO.

I THINK WE HAVE TO START AT THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR WITH EVERYONE OR 80% AND ADD ON FROM THERE.

>> I AGREE, BUT SOMETHING CLOSE TO THAT, DAVE, WOULD BE THE FEDERAL TRACKING DATABASES THAT WOULD SHOW WHERE SOMEONE IS STOCKPILING GUNS, WHERE THEY ARE, AND THEN BE ABLE TO ENABLE LAW ENFORCEMENT TO HONE IN ON THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

>> RIGHT.

AND AGE LIMITS TOO.

I WOULD THINK THAT, I MEAN, I KNOW JUST FROM WHAT I HAVE BEEN READING THAT MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE GUN RIGHTS SUPPORTERS, STILL THINK THAT IT WAS OUTRAGEOUS THAT THIS GUY COULD WALK IN ON HIS 18TH BIRTHDAY AND BUY A COUPLE OF -- >> IF YOU CAN BRING BIG TECH TO THE TABLE FOR ANTI-TRUST TRUST VIOLATIONS, HOW ABOUT BRING TO THE TABLE TO CREATE AN ALGORITHM.

IF YOU CAN TRACK WHAT TOOTHPASTE I USE AND DISINFORMATION BUREAU, CAN WE NOT FIND A WAY TO PUT BIG TECH ON THE LINE FOR THIS SORT OF A THING?

>> THAT RAISES ANOTHER INTERESTING POINT WHICH IS THAT THE SOCIAL MEDIA THAT THESE SHOOTERS HAVE BEEN USING ARE NOW IN SOME WAYS THE CONTENT MODERATION IS FIGHTING THE LAST WAR.

THESE ARE THE DISAPPEARING APPS THAT YOU SEND A MESSAGE AND IT IS GONE IN 15 SECONDS.

HOW DO YOU TRACK STUFF LIKE THAT?

>> HERE YOU'RE TRYING TO PICK NEEDLES OUT OF A HAY STACK.

THE NUMBER OF MASS SHOOTINGS OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS, ABOUT 100 OUT OF 350 MILLION PEOPLE, I DON'T -- WHETHER IT BE WITH HIGH-TECH OR COUNSELING, I DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PICK THOSE SMALL NUMBERS OF PEOPLE OUT TO DETERMINE THIS PERSON IS TRULY A THREAT THIS PERSON IS NOT.

I THINK GOING TO TRY TO REDUCE THE DAMAGE THEY DO BY HAVING SOME KIND OF GUN CONTROL MEASURES IS REALLY THE ONLY WAY THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO LESSEN SOME OF THESE.

>> RIGHT, AND I THINK THE MINDSET HAS TO BE THAT NO POLICY WILL BE PERFECT BECAUSE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT REDUCING THE AGE BUT THE LEXINGTON SHOOTER WAS 64 YEARS OLD HE WAS WEALTHY, HE OWNED REAL ESTATE.

THERE WERE NO SIGNS THERE.

SO LET'S MOVE AWAY from wanting perfection, AND ACCEPTING JUST IMPROVEMENT AND MITIGATION.

>> SOMETHING COMPREHENSIVE PERHAPS.

A LITTLE BIT OF EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN MENTIONED TODAY.

>> OKAY, NOW, THE WORLD ECONOMIC FORUMS UNDERWAY THIS WEEK IN A BEAUTIFUL SWISS CITY, NOTHING SAYS GLOBALIZATION LIKE DAVOS.

BUT GLOBALIZATION HAS GOTTEN A BAD RAP IN THIS ERA OF PANDEMIC-INDUCED SUPPLY SHORTAGES.

DESPITE THE PRESENCE OF ALL OF THE HIGH-PROFILE DIGNITARIES AT DAVOS, IS GLOBALIZATION DEAD?

>> WOUNDED, DAVE, BUT NOT DEAD.

THE REASON I SAY THAT IS, I THINK THE BENEFITS OF GLOBALIZATION ARE MUCH GREATER THAN THE COSTS.

I THINK THAT YOU CAN MAKE TWO BIG ARGUMENTS ABOUT GLOBALIZATION.

FIRST, IT HAS INCREASED THE MATERIALISTIC WELL-BEING OF PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.

NOW, WE MAY DEBATE WHETHER THE GAINS OF GLOBALIZATION HAS BEEN EQUITABLY DISTRIBUTED, BUT THE INTERNATIONAL TRADE CENTER ESTIMATES THAT ABOUT A BILLION PEOPLE HAVE BEEN LIFTED OUT OF POVERTY OVER THE LAST FEW DECADES BECAUSE OF GLOBALIZATION.

CERTAINLY THE PANDEMIC HAS CAUSED PROBLEMS.

YOU MENTIONED THE SUPPLY SHOP PROBLEMS AND COMPANIES ARE TALKING ABOUT DIVERSIFYING RATHER THAN SPECIALIZING AS MUCH BUT THIS WILL RAISE COSTS AND I THINK EVENTUALLY WILL COME BACK AND WHEN THINGS HAVE RETURNED A LITTLE BIT MORE TO NORMAL, SEE THE BENEFITS OF GLOBALIZATION.

THE OTHER BENEFIT WAS, IT WAS THE HOPE THAT ECONOMIC INTEGRATION WOULD MAKE THE WORLD A SAFER PLACE.

AND I THINK THAT WAS WORKING FOR A WHILE, UNTIL RECENTLY WHEN BOTH CHINA AND RUSSIA DECIDED THAT THEY HAD GOALS THAT WERE MORE IMPORTANT THAN SIMPLY INCREASING THE STANDARD OF LIVING OF THEIR PEOPLE.

THAT WILL BE SOMETHING I THINK THAT WILL WEIGH ON GLOBALIZATION IN THE LONGER RUN.

BUT I CERTAINLY BELIEVE THAT GLOBALIZATION, WHILE HURT, IS STILL A CAUSE OF GOOD AND WILL CONTINUE.

>> OKAY, AND NEITHER ONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES IS AT DAVOS THIS YEAR.

>> THE ONLY QUIBBLE WITH THE QUESTION IS I THINK THAT GLOBALIZATION HAS BEEN WRONGLY GETTING A BAD RAP LONG BEFORE COVID.

IN 2016, THAT'S WHEN I STARTED GETTING WORRIED ABOUT THE WAY OUR POLITICAL CANDIDATES, OUR PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES WERE TALKING ABOUT IT.

BUT I THINK WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW IS REALLY TWO PROBLEMS.

ONE IS THE SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUE THAT YOU'RE TALK ABOUT, BUT WHAT EXPOSED IS A PROBLEM WITH AN UNDIVERSIFIED PORTFOLIO.

IF WE'RE GETTING EVERYTHING FROM CHINA, AND CHINA DECIDES TO SHUT DOWN FOR SOME NONSENSICAL ZERO COVID POLICY, THEN THAT IS BAD FOR US.

AND SO, THE SOLUTION TO THAT IS NOT TO BECOME INSULAR AND DO EVERYTHING OURSELVES, IT IS TO BUY STUFF FROM MORE COUNTRIES.

>> SO INCREASE GLOBALIZATION.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE SECOND PROBLEM IS THE GROWING INEQUALITY ISSUE WHERE, EVERY ECONOMIST IS GOING TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT TRADE CREATES WINNERS AND LOSERS.

AS ECONOMISTS WE WAVE OUR HANDS AND SAY IT IS STILL POSSIBLE TO REDISTRIBUTE FROM THE WINNERS TO THE LOSERS AND EVERYBODY IS BETTER OFF.

BUT OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNMENT DROPS THE BALL IN THE REDISTRIBUTION ISSUE.

AND SO, PEOPLE WHO ARE DISAFFECTED AND UNDEREMPLOYED FOLKS, THEY ARE REASONABLY ANGRY AT POLITICIANS AND ECONOMISTS LIKE US FOR BEING OUT OF TOUCH AND THEY SAY, YOU KNOW, HOW CAN YOU SAY GLOBALIZATION IS GOOD?

GLOBALIZATION IS GREAT!

BUT, YOU KNOW, YEAH, THE DISTRIBUTIONAL CONSEQUENCES ARE SOMETHING THAT POLITICIANS SHOULD PAY MORE ATTENTION TO.

>> OKAY, MICHAEL.

>> FOR ME, GLOBALIZATION AND I'LL COME TO ANOTHER DOOR IF I, COULD PLEASE.

AS AN ECONOMIC IDEA, AS A CONCERN FOR TRADE AND OTHER THINGS HAS ALSO BEEN TRANSFORMED INTO A WORD THAT CAN INJURE INDIVIDUALS AND GROUPS.

AND SO IN THE CURRENT MOMENT, THE MOST EFFECTIVE EXIPOSITOR OF THIS REALITY WOULD HAVE TO BE THE FORMER OPERATIVE OF THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION, STEVE BANNON, FORMER WALL STREET MONEY GUY.

FORMER NAVY GUY.

GLOBALIZATION AS A WEAPONIZED TERM IS NOT DEAD BECAUSE BANNON HAS TAKEN THE WORD GLOBALIST AND TURNED INTO A CONSPIRACY OF KISS OF DEATH AS HE LOCATES ANY MEMBER THAT HE ASSOCIATED WITH IT TO TAKE DOWN OUR WORKING CLASS AND BLUE COLLAR PEOPLE.

LASTLY BANNON CONSISTENTLY USED THIS TERM GLOBALIST AGAINST THOSE POLITICAL ELITES ALTHOUGH HE FITTED NEATLY INTO THAT ELITE GROUP FOR QUITE SOME TIME.

HE NOW CASTS HIMSELF AS ANTI-GLOBALIST EVER MAN AND LIKE HIS FORMER BOSS IN THE WEST WING, HE KNOWS THAT IT WORKS.

>> AND THAT PARTIALLY EXPLAINS WHY THE TURN TOWARD LIBERAL -- THE ILL LIBERALISM IN BOTH THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT IS ANTI-GLOBAL.

>> YEAH, I'M NOT NECESSARILY ANTI-GLOBAL.

I'M CERTAINLY NOT PART OF THE -- THAT HE TALKED ABOUT BUT I'M REMINDED OF THE SONG BY THE LATE BLUES SINGER BILLY HALLADAY, A LINE IN THE SONG IS "GOD BLESS THE CHILD WHO HAS HIS OWN."

AND I USE THAT TO ILLUSTRATE THE POINT THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN ESSENTIAL ITEMS TO WHICH WE SHOULD NOT LOOK TO GLOBALIZATION TO PROVIDE.

THERE ARE CERTAIN ESSENTIALS.

FOR EXAMPLE, WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GO TO GERMANY TO FEED OUR BABIES, RIGHT?

WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE RELIANT ON RUSSIA, KNOWING THAT RUSSIA IS A BACK ACTOR AND DOESN'T REALLY LIKE THE U.S. FOR ENERGY, AND THERE IS SOME OTHER AREAS WHERE I THINK THAT RECENT EVENTS HAVE SHOWN UP THE WEAKNESSS OF GLOBAL INTERDEPENDENCE IN CERTAIN AREAS IN CERTAIN AREAS.

AND SO IN THOSE AREAS, I THINK THAT RESURING OR NEAR SURING IS A GOOD IDEA.

THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT WE BECOME INSULAR.

>> BUT WHAT ARE WE GOING TO PRODUCE, NINA?

>> WE DON'T DO WHAT CHAD MENTIONED WHICH IS TO RELY ON A LARGER SET OF SOURCES, BUT, IT DOES MEAN THAT WE DON'T CONTINUE DOING THE SAME THING, KNOWING THAT WE HAVE LEARNED TOUGH LESSONS ABOUT CERTAIN ASPECTS OF GLOBALIZATION.

AND NOW I'LL DEFER TO MY COLLEAGUES.

>> SO IF WE'RE GOING TO START MAKING MORE BABY FORMULA HERE, MORE COMPUTER CHIPS HERE, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO STOP PRODUCING BECAUSE WE CURRENTLY HAVE A 3.6% UNEMPLOYMENT RATE.

WE HAVE MILLIONS OF JOBS THAT CAN'T BE FILLED.

NOW IT IS NOT JUST LET'S MAKE ALL OF THIS STUFF HERE, THERE IS A TRADEOFF.

WHAT AREN'T WE GOING TO PRODUCE AND MANY OF THESE GOODS THAT WE'RE PRODUCING HERE, WE SHIP OVERSEAS AND HELP PEOPLE IN OTHER COUNTRIES.

SO IT IS NOT QUITE AS SIMPLE AS, LET'S JUST START ON SOURCING THIS.

WE MADE THIS ARGUMENT FOR YEARS AND YEARS.

AGAIN, I THINK WHAT IT DOES IS IT RAISES COSTS AND IT MISSES THE POINT THAT THERE ARE TRADEOFFS WHEN WE DECIDE.

>> YES, BUT MEDICINE AND FOOD ARE AN EXCEPTION.

WE SHOULD NOT BE DEPENDING ON OTHER -- >> THEN WE DON'T -- >> IF WE'RE NEEDING GERMANY TO FEED OUR BABIES, THAT'S A PROBLEM.

>> BUT WE GET MUCH OF OUR FOOD FROM UKRAINE.

WE GET IT FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

AND I REMEMBER GROWING UP WHEN WE DIDN'T DO THAT, AND WE DID NOT HAVE FRESH VEGETABLES, 12 MONTHS OF THE YEAR.

AND THE ABILITY TO EAT HEALTHY WAS MUCH TOUGHER THAN.

SO, AGAIN, I THINK THAT, ON BALANCE, THIS INTERNATIONAL TRADE HAS MADE MOST OF OUR LIVES BETTER, NOT WORSE.

>> AND DIVERSIFICATION HELPS TO REDUCE SYSTEMATIC RISK, AND SO IF YOU'RE PULLING THESE ITEMS FROM LOTS OF DIFFERENT COUNTRIES AND NOT JUST ONE, THEN YOU'RE FINE.

YOU REFERENCED, NINA, SORT OF THIS DEPENDENCY ON RUSSIA FOR ENERGY SOURCES AND THAT SPEAKS TO THIS GROWING CONCERN LIKE AS ELECTRIFICATION WITH CARS AND SO CARS AND SO FORTH, THE RARE EARTH METALS, GOD DECIDES WHERE THOSE ARE, NOT ME.

SO, LIKE, COBALT IS ESSENTIAL.

60% IS CONTROLLED BY THE CONGO?

YOU KNOW, WE REALLY DON'T HAVE ALTERNATIVES.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> I THINK THAT JUST REINFORCES THE POINT THAT WE TALK ABOUT GLOBALIZATION AS IF IT IS GOOD ACROSS THE BOARD.

AND I THINK THAT EVEN THE AVERAGE PERSON WHO IS NOT AN ECONOMIST CAN LOOK AT WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND SAID THIS AIN'T WORKING IN CERTAIN PLACES.

PERIOD.

>> NOW THIS HAS BEEN A GREAT DISCUSSION AND WE SPENT SO MUCH TIME WE'RE NOT GOING FULLY GET TO TO OUR THIRD.

HERE, AND THE THIRD DISCUSSION POINT WAS GOING TO BE ABOUT THE REDISTRICTING THAT WE HAVE HAD IN NEW YORK STATE.

WE'VE GONE THROUGH THIS LONG PROCESS.

WE FINALLY HAVE NEW LEGISLATIVE MAPS, AND OF COURSE THERE IS WINNERS AND LOSERS.

BUT JUST IN TERMS OF WHETHER WE THINK THAT THIS HAS BEEN A GOOD PROCESS AND WE HAVE MAPS WHICH ARE GOOD OR NOT GOOD, WHAT DO WE THINK?

AND MICHAEL, WE'LL START WITH YOU AND GO AROUND HORN PRETTY QUICKLY.

WE HAVE A MINUTE.

>> GO OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK AND COME BACK IN A MOMENT WITH THE MAPPING OF VOTING DISTRICTS, DEFINITELY NOT GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY, NO MATTER WHICH PARTY DOES IT.

I THINK ABOUT THE QUESTION OF PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION.

MY FAMILY COMING OUT OF THE AMERICAN SOUTH AND CONCENTRATION OF POWER HAS BEEN A LACK OF A PRODUCT OF REPRESENTATION.

IN TERMS OF NEW YORK, I THINK THAT MAYBE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY REACHED TOO FAR.

>> OVERREACHED THERE AND -- OKAY.

ARE THE MAPS GOOD?

>> YES, THEY ARE MORE COMPETITIVE.

WE HAVE 8 CONTESTABLE SEATS THAT IS GREAT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> GOOD OR BAD.

>> MORE COMPETITIVE SEATS.

THAT'S A GOOD THING.

>> THEY MAY BE GOOD OR BAD IS IN THE EYES OF THE BEHOLDER BECAUSE THEY ARE GOOD OR BAD FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE.

THERE IS ONLY TWO REAL RULES IN REGARDING TO REDISTRICTING WHERE STATE AND FEDERAL CONSTITUTIONAL PROVISIONS ARE CONCERNED.

ONE IS ALL OF THE DISTRICTS HAVE TO BE EQUAL.

THE OTHER IS THEY CAN'T BE RACIALLY DISCRIMINATORY.

>> UP OR DOWN, RICK?

>> RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE.

I'LL BE GOOD TWO-ARMED ECONOMIST.

THERE ARE PROS AND CONS.

>> TWO HANDS COUNTED.

OKAY, EXCELLENT.

SORRY WE HAD TO RUSH THROUGH THAT SO QUICKLY, BUT WE'RE AT OUR AS AND FS AND NINA, WE'LL BEGIN YOUR F. >> OKAY, THE UNITED NATIONS COLLECTED ONLY $93 MILLION TO HELP WITH THE HUNGER CRISIS IN EAST AFRICA.

WHERE MORE THAN 23 MILLION PEOPLE ARE ON THE VERGE OF STARVING TO DEATH.

IT IS NOT THE WORLD DOESN'T HAVE THE FOOD AND THE MONEY TO HELP.

THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY MANAGED TO RAISE $60 BILLION, WITH A B, DOLLARS IN ONE MONTH FOR UKRAINE.

YET IT HAS BEEN TWO YEARS SINCE A COUPLE OF REPORTS SHOWED THAT IN ETHIOPIA, KENYA AND SOMALIA, ONE PERSON DIES EVERY 48 SECONDS FROM HUNGER.

>> MICHAEL.

>> MY F MINUS, IF THAT'S A GRADE, GOES TO REPUBLICAN SENATORS.

LAST WEEK ON WEDNESDAY, MAY 18, THE HOUSE NARROWLY PASSED THE DOMESTIC TERRORISM ACT OF 2022 MOSTLY ALONG PARTY LINE.

THE BILL GIVES FEDERAL AUTHORITIES MORE RESOURCES TO TRACK DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

AS PREDICTED SENATORS SAID THEY WOULD NOT VOTE IN FAVOR OF THE BILL.

YOU HEARD ME CORRECTLY.

THEY WOULD NOT VOTE IN FAVOR OF THE BILL AND TRIED TO BLOCK LEGISLATION GIVE MORE GOVERNMENT RESOURCES TO PREVENTING DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

SO YESTERDAY AS THEY PROMISED THEY VOTED NO.

THIS IS AFTER BACK-TO-BACK MASS SHOOTINGS IN BUFFALO, LAGUNA WOODS AND CALIFORNIA AND UVALDE.

AND THIS MAY UNFORTUNATELY MAY COST MORE AMERICAN LIVES.

>> RICK.

>> MY F GOES REPRESENTATIVE PAUL GOSAR OF ARIZONA AFTER THE TEXAS SHOOTING SPREAD CLAIMS THAT THE GUNMAN WAS FIRST TRANSGENDER AND THEN THAT HE WAS AN UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT.

BOTH OF WHICH WERE FALSE.

I THINK THAT IT IS UNCONSCIONABLE FOR HIM TO TRY TO EXPLOIT THIS TRAGEDY IN ORDER TO FURTHER SPREAD HIS BIGOTED VIEWS.

>> CHAD.

>> MY F GOES TO SAN FRANCISCO ARCHBISHOP SALVADOR CORDILEONE FOR REFUSING TO -- NANCY PELOSI FOR REDUCING -- STANCE ON ABORTION LAW.

THAT'S NOT COMMENTARY ON THEOLOGY OR POLICY REGARDING RIGHT TO LIFE BUT IS RATHER A CONCERN THAT HE'S WEAPONNIZING THE EUCHARIST AND TURN PEOPLE AWAY FROM THE CHURCH.

>> OKAY.

AND NOW WE'LL GO TO OUR AS, NINA.

>> WE SHOULD HAVE A SHOW ON THAT BUT I AM BEATING CHAD TO ANOTHER THING.

FOR THE THIRD YEAR IN A ROW, COLGATE UNIVERSITY NAMED ONE OF U.S.

COLLEGES THAT PRODUCED THE MOST FULBRIGHT STUDENTS DURING THE CURRENT ACADEMIC YEAR.

THE FULBRIGHT PROGRAM IS AMERICA'S MAIN INTERNATIONAL EDUCATIONAL EXCHANGE PROGRAM.

IT IS DESIGNED TO INCREASE OUR COUNTRY'S UNDERSTANDING OF OTHER COUNTRIES.

AND SO CONGRATULATIONS TO THE FIVE COLGATE STUDENTS THAT RECEIVED THE FULBRIGHT AWARDS.

>> CONGRATULATIONS TO THEM.

MICHAEL.

>> MY A GOES TO AUTHOR MARK FOLLMAN FOR HIS BOOK "TRIGGER POINT: INSIDE THE MISSION TO STOP MASS SHOOTINGS IN AMERICA."

CHECKED DATA AND INTERVIEWED VICTIMS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS TO BRING ABOUT THE EYE OPENING RESEARCH ON MASS SHOOTING.

THE BOOK EXPLORES THE MINDS AND ACTIONS OF PERPETRATORS OF THE HOMEGROWN TRAGEDIES AND ILLUMINATES A PLETHORA OF TOOLS TO PROVIDE POSSIBLE REMEDIES TO THIS RECURRING NIGHTMARE IN AMERICA.

>> RICK.

>> MY A GOES TO REPUBLICAN VOTERS IN ALABAMA, RESTORED SOME OF MY FAITH IN THE FUTURE OF DEMOCRACY AND THE RULE OF LAW BY CHOOSING BRIAN KEMP AND BRAD RAFFENSPERGER IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTIES FOR GOVERNOR AND SECRETARY OF STATE OVER TWO TRUMP-SUPPORTED CANDIDATES.

>> AND CHAD.

>> SO, ALSO GREATNESS AT COLGATE.

EACH MAY OUR CENTER FOR OUTREACH VOLUNTEERISM AND EDUCATION COLLECTS OVER $50,000 IN CLOTHES AND FURNITURE AND OTHER ITEMS THAT DEPARTING STUDENTS HAVE DONATED.

IT THEN DISTRIBUTES THEM TO 35 LOCAL NON-PROFITS.

THIS PICTURE YOU CAN SEE THIS YEAR'S HALL FILLED OLD HOCKEY ARENA UP TO ABOUT THE BLUE LINE.

I'LL CONFESS, THAT IS SELF INDULGENT A BECAUSE MY WIFE ORGANIZES THE EVENT.

I'M THE CAPITALIST, AND SHE'S THE VOLUNTEER.

BUT FAMILY INTERESTS ASIDE, IT IS GREAT FOR THE COMMUNITY AND FOR SUSTAINABILITY.

>> LET'S JUST GIVE YOUR WIFE AN A.

>> ABSOLUTELY!

>> EXACTLY!

>> LET'S ALL GIVE OUR SPOUSES AN A.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE SHOW AGAIN YOU CAN VIEW IT ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY.

FOR ALL OF US AT "IVORY TOWER," HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

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