>> Good evening.

My name is Kate Barrow and I'm a community engagement specialist with the North Carolina division of mental health developmental disabilities and substance abuse services.

>> Welcome to our as scoop series for managing stress.

>> I'm really excited to be here again Ow and joining our community members and having this really important discussion on how we can manage our stress.

>> During challenging times.

I want to thank North Carolina PBS in the governor's Institute for their partnership and collaboration and helping us to present the scoop series.

We're going to go over the in scoop, the first which is observe your use of substances.

So if you are following along tonight on social media.

We ask that you use the hashtag scoop for stress and if you are not already following dhhs on twitter facebook or instagram we have included those links for you can find us on all of those platforms.

Scoop if you haven't been participating this your first time participating in this Cape series scoop stands for stay connected.

Compassion for yourself and others observe your use of substances okay to ask for help and physical activity to improve your mood as scoop is an evidence base have best-practice model for managing stress.

And we're just really excited to share that with you to this series.

It's really important that we take care of our mental health, TRE it's part of our whole health you know if there are bodies in our brains are not separate entities.

We it works in conjunction with one another and we're where one whole person right.

But behavioral health is really core to our overall health and during COVID-19 it's an extraordinary events kind of I don't think anybody was really prepared for the different changes that we would be facing in this last year.

And we are coming up on the one year.

Mark of that pandemic.

But it is normal that we would be experiencing an impact on our mental health and our behavioral health.

Scoop what we want you to just remember was scoop is that these are seeing Cesar action steps that you can take to better manage your stress and help maintain your mental health.

And there's things you can do beyond just the pandemic right we can carry these things forward in our regular lives.

So tonight, we're going to be talking about as I said earlier observe your use of substances and we know that early intervention can help prevent problems.

We're going to be talking with Curtis Taylor, the executive director of the alcohol and drug Council North Carolina and to shut temple also with the alcohol and drug Council.

She's an information and referral specialist and then West writer he is another community engagement specialist on our team.

On on my team actually West and I are on the same team together.

So thank you thank you all for being here it's so good to see you in person and to be doing this with you all again we're so grateful that you could join U.S. West to you or I guess to should you mind sharing with us have some of our what we hope people can take away.

This evening from from our discussion.

Okay, thank you guys for having us.

We are in an extraordinary period of increased stress.

It's vitally important that we monitor our motions feelings daily and be ready to ask for help if it's needed.

>> And we believe that just a storm last not conversations with you about 6 is essential.

We also must normalize our conversations pertaining to substance use.

Absolutely.

So >> I think this is a really good time to kind of go over what does it really mean when we're talking about serving our use of substances right.

People have different goals it means different things to different people West can you start us off with talking about what does it mean to observe here use of substances.

>> We'll certainly Kate.

Thank you by the way.

You know our our presentation tonight of course feeds into that larger scoop presentation which is all about stress reduction.

And the reason we're here tonight to talk about observing your use of substances is because often it it can be tempting true to manage stress in may be ways that aren't as healthy as some other choices.

Often folks might be tempted to turn to substances to manage stress.

When I say substances, I mean anything from of course alcohol and tobacco to things like oh gosh you know I have a food thing I nabs I always of the ABS and when I get stressed out.

>> I love to eat maps.

>> So you know substances.

>> Could be a very you will of God, a broad category.

But that's why we're here tonight is really these are extraordinary times and extraordinary stressful.

And we just want to kind of reinforce that there are healthy ways to manage your stress.

>> Absolutely Curtis can you maybe talk to us a little bit about what it means to you to observe here use of substances.

>> Yes Kate, thank you.

Thank you for having us.

So so let me begin this by simply stating that my name is Curtis Taylor.

And I'm a person in long-term recovery.

And for me that means that I have not used alcohol or any other substance for over 18 years now.

So as a crossing in long-term recovery.

My observance of use and substances involves abstaining totally 100%.

I happen to be one of those folks in our society who have very very dire consequences to using substances at any level.

Other people.

Are necessarily affected in that same and there are people who do involve themselves in what we call social use responsible use.

You know getting drink half a glass of wine and not even finishing leaving last on the table while others are going to drink until the bottles empty and then into the store closes and so on is someone.

So we all have to know what mainly and what we're in what category that we fit in.

Fortunately I found out that use the substances was not the answer for me.

And I was I'm very fortunate to that that resources were made available to me to where I could find long-term sustained recovery.

>> Thank you for sharing that and I think it's really powerful when we hear from the people who are in long-term recovery and the are able to share that to show you don't want to leave you out from from this conversation can you kind of go over what does it mean to you to observe your use of substances.

>> So my name is Trisha and I'm also a woman who was living in long-term recovery recovery date is July the 26th of 2014.

I have not found it necessary to use him and a doctrine substances since that day.

So a little a little over 6 and a half years.

I agree with Curtis, a 100% map servants is at students I do I do want to say out loud today that at in a new process of recovery of binge eating you know it's so during this time of being at home and isolating at have used these tools to observe my use of that substance and in the last 2 and a half minutes been able to started a journey of fans, healthier and better habits and I'm grateful for the students.

Thank you so much I think that's.

A really good.

I mean.

>> I wasn't expecting you say that no I think it's really powerful, you know because I think that's that's something that's really easily accessible to us is we think like what's what's comforting rate like what's comforting to pass and sometimes that's that is food and it can be really hard to think in terms of like am I going for the cookies and I get it I get it thank you so much for sharing that.

So I think we kind of covered some of the things that can be considered substances.

We talked a little bit about tobacco and alcohol.

Caffeine is another one that we didn't mention but that's out there too.

So really with this with this particular.

Part of scoop and we've talked about observation.

There's different there's different ways of observing that right some folks abstain completely some people do the moderation and responsibilities so what what does it mean to observe responsibly can we walk through what that means in terms of and Curtis I think you did a really good job of introducing the app and maybe kids kind of talk about that a little bit more and West can I start with you on that one it was certainly not and I think Curtis made of a very good point that's been look different for different people just says on our slide different people have different goals so yeah, this.

>> You know it's interesting I gosh for this is not an official division statement that for the last 20 years or so I've occasionally thought.

Convenience stores may indeed be the largest well organized drug dealers in America.

>> It I say that.

>> Humorously but but in in all actually almost everything you buy in a convenience store is on altering I mean if you think about it you have alcohol you have tobacco.

You have chocolate so and sugar caffeine, and then of course gasoline to get to your next destination.

You know I think.

Just as different people have different goals different people make different choices as far as the substances that they are attracted to.

It can be difficult not to judge folks sometimes but a lot of times to me really >> it goes back to its a very personal thing.

It's not something for me to make a decision about for someone else.

I think that's actually you know kind of dangerous territory when you start taking someone else's inventory.

He >> at times though it is it's very important that we observe our Hugh strike that we're mindful of what we're putting into our bodies and the route we're you know that we really striving for health I think that's the bottom line for me is that for me there are some substances that I just know are not a healthy choice for me you know tobacco's a very good example of that I grew up working in the back was very much a part of our culture.

Then I'm sitting here in the studio in Durham in a city that was basically built with tobacco money.

Yes.

And yet for me I'm one of these people that cannot smoke a single cigarette.

If I do smoke one cigarette I will be buying a pack that day and I will be off and running and smoking just like I never stopped.

I have other loved ones in my life though that can smoke one or 2 cigarettes a year.

>> I don't know.

I I wish I did know how to do that.

But I don't I just know that for me I really need to be careful around the back and so when we talk about observing argues.

>> For me that one is I need to make sure I am not using tobacco right, yeah.

I hope that made said no I made a lot of sense and I'm really glad that you said that because.

>> I don't people this very afternoon but I spoke for over 10 years.

And it was really hard to quit and and I think a lot of it had to do with stress and what I was doing it for work and just lie factors right Lake life actors and how.

>> It is super easy to buy some of these things it super easy to go.

>> And get caffeine and we don't always think like caffeine is a substance, but it has an impact on our health right sort to share and Curtis or Curtis did any I want to see what how how you'd like to respond if something resonated with you out West said there was another piece want to get to that you said that we're going to get I want to hear from tisha under.

>> Curtis first it yet Kate, I think one of the things that resonated as I was listening to the West talk was that he mentioned you know taking your own in that or you're not judging.

You know as we get deeper into this presentation we're going to talk about you know normalizing this conversation.

Making this more of a mainstream.

Where or a mainstream conversation in our society.

And reducing the stigma surrounding substance use disorders unknown and other orders for that matter.

But but I think that we must begin from a place where we understand remind our sales that now one person on this planet is any better than or any less than another person on this planet.

Because I'm in long-term recovery and I haven't used in over 18 years that doesn't make me better than the person who is attempt to know.

Define recovery right now the person added still involved in an active substance use disorder situation and the minute we lose sight of that.

We're in trouble.

You know we begin to perpetuate that stigma.

People need help.

Judgment is not help.

You people need to understand that that this is a this is a real issue.

It happens to real people.

And that you know no human being on on this earth is is a perfect.

A perfect model.

So to speak and you know we get if we can begin from there even if somebody doesn't understand my situation at least they can begin empathize with my situation.

Definitely.

>> To should touch you want to share anything that may be resonating with you from from wet last had said her and I do want to come back to it.

Curtis said because that's that's where I was going next so.

One of the one of the many reasons I have so much respect for Curtis is.

He is so passionate about eliminating stigma.

>> Attached to substance use disorder and I appreciate him so much my life West your comments about the convenience stores and cigarettes and those types of things going into recovery and having the desire to want to put the cigarette down and not knowing how to do that.

I was taught how to recognize.

Why I was smoking and what their stressful situations where and what to do different inside of the situation said that I wasn't picking up a cigarette well it went on for quite some time that I was observing those things and it was quite OK because it was my journey was anybody else's journey to to guide.

And that's the way that I feel free to from it but I was able to recognize that our is getting more stressed out about whether or not I was going to able to smoke a cigarette then distress that I was in that I feel like I needed the cigarette for you know you're not finishing dinner with your family at the restaurant you're outside smoking the cigarette you're ready for that 15 minutes of the rush to be over at the restaurant he can run back outside and smoke a cigarette and then spray and spray on me to get the smell out and that type of you know, and so I realized that I was causing massive just as much stress trying to smoke.

That was you know, that's my story but one of the tools that I used was to avoid convenience store said.

I was told to fill my gas tank up get all the groceries that I need.

There's no reason why you need to go in the store for the next 2 weeks and if you need as you need to pay for it outside because those things are in our environment and and it's definitely OK because it is for some people and in it's just not for me.

And I'm grateful to be able to recognize that today, yeah.

>> What's it's interesting to shot, you know.

It's tobacco is one of those things I really really struggled with for a very long time and one of the things that really got to me a gentleman by the name of William white who is a historian of substance abuse treatment.

He is also a person who self identify as being long-term recovery.

And he very publicly stated wants that he counts his day.

He started County his sobriety the day he quit smoking cigarettes will that really blew me away at that point in my life I had never thought about that.

But I guess the point if there is one to what I was saying is that you know we tend to think of substances being these things like.

Heroin or cocaine illicit substances.

And there's certainly people do get into trouble and have issues and have problems with their health because of of these illicit substances.

But I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the.

There are many many other substances which can negatively affect our health and we tend to maybe gloss over those as a society.

I often think about.

You may have heard the term that that.

Drinking alcohol is socially acceptable.

I'm stories that's almost socially expected.

It seems to me like when I enter a room a lot of times people just assume that I'm going to want to drink of alcohol right.

And I'm not sure where that comes from in our society but we do we seem to be well we seem to have a lot of different substances out there that we can choose from.

I think the key is is really.

Trying to make wise decisions.

And if you find if a person finds that they are struggling and cannot seem to stop.

Then then that person may really want to consider asking for some help right now there is good support out there and we'll be talking a little more about that later.

>> Yeah, absolutely and okay if you don't mind go fight West triggered a thought went with the pressure the peer pressure that he was speaking to just now that was in an adult situation that those are like you know me out with his colleagues or friends things of that nature and we got to realize as a society that pressure.

It starts early yes, and the fact of the matter is that right here in our state of North Carolina kids experience alcohol and at the average age of 14 years old.

14 years old.

And at the age of 12 about 10%.

Kids say they've had experience with alcohol by the age of 15 that number jumps up to over 50%.

And so you know we we have to those of us in our society who who are able to you know drinks, socially or you know use substances socially.

I'm absolutely must exhibit responsible but behavior right because you know kids are watching and they're going to they're going to do what they they see us do not what they hear us say.

And I'm one of the coolest tools that we have out there is a campaign called talking House in C. And there are because because you know this can be an uncomfortable conversation for adults to have with you parents to have their children so on and so forth for many reasons.

But it doesn't have to be and so www that talk it out in C .org is full of tools that adults and parents can use to start that very important conversation with kids for the prevention of under-age drinking.

Earlier someone starts the use of substances.

The more likely they are to develop a substance use disorder.

And so if we can get upstream in get into that prevention mode.

Weekend you know alleviate a lot of harm to our society.

>> So I I'm really glad that you brought that up because we did have and the division did host a un team town Hall on the 20th that you can actually view on facebook on the governor's Institute as well and I I think we talked about the youth had talked about the stress that they were feeling.

But we also were aware that there could have potentially been a young person on that on that call that has a substance use disorder and we don't want to out them right, but we also want to have a conversation.

That coming from that judgment free place that you you mentioned earlier and that West had mentioned.

But let's maybe let's talk a little bit about we have some statistics up right now and I think those are really good for us to be aware of and I think it's really good for us to be aware of the the statistics that you mentioned Curtis but I I think too we should probably talk about coming how do we have those a judgment free conversations, especially when it comes to our young people and how we can model that behavior to should do you mind helping us go through some of the statistics hearing no where we're kind of jumping around a little bit so we'll try and get it get the conversation on course certainly say these figures show what substance she's looked like in the U.S. before the pandemic.

In addition about 0.3% use kratom in the past in the past month.

This report summarizes key findings from the 2018 national survey on drug use and health for national indicators of substance use and mental health among people age 12 or older.

>> And the civilian on institutional last population of the United States.

Results are provided for the overall category of people age 12 or older and that age separates.

In a report published August 14th of 2020 titled mental help substance use and suicidal.

At a nation during the COVID-19 pandemic.

During during June 24th through the 30th.

Us adults reported considerably elevated adverse mental health conditions associated with COVID-19 younger adults, racial ethnic minorities, essential workers and unpaid caregivers reported having experience disproportionately worse mental health outcomes increase Epstein, she's and elevated suicidal at a nation.

>> What I hear when I hear you I tell us about those statistics what I hear happening in our country is that we were stressed out before a huge.

All right we're already stressed out.

Some of us maybe we're looking to some substances to manage that stress may be some folks had some trauma history of trauma.

And that's where some of the the substance use place into that or Curtis as you said use have if they have an earlier exposure to substance use it can lead to a substance use disorder and then you throw the pandemic in on top of that and it just creates a perfect storm of stress.

Where people are not only socially isolated.

For that you know for the safety reasons and precautions that we've had those in place.

>> But they they may be and homes where the behavior is not modeled well for them.

>> Or you know maybe they're person who's already has a substance use they haven't started.

They're recovery journey yet so the data that's present on the screen now does come from a study I conducted with the CDC.

And you can find this on their Web site and reported that as of June of 2020.

People in the study reported an increase of 13% or started to increase their substance use and 13% of those who participated in the study had had mention that.

>> And so I think with this data is telling us between 2019 2020 and then I think we have another day to slide that talks about later on in this presentation.

It talks about the increased sales of alcohol so we know that people are turning to different substances to manage stress and we know that stress is an invitee to experience we feel it physically there's changes and how you know if you when I get stressed out.

I get sad, Judy and I get and little just nervous and sometimes my chest kind of gets a little tight and so I can see if you're not really familiar with the language in the mental health world and behavioral health world that you may think oh my gosh what is happening to me right now what I do and you may turn to something as a quick fix for the stress, you're feeling.

I don't know if that makes sense to you while, but that's kind of I understand that some kind of to get back into that resiliency zone right.

I think you'd be good if we went to talking about you know really a place of empathy coming from a place of empathy when it comes to us because I think Wes you've pointed out that there are some social expectations to substance use and know if you look in different parent groups to especially in the mom groups on social media.

There's always means and gifts about just whine about it are like you know did there's jokes about it and it normalizes turning to substances.

Instead of normalizing a conversation around stress management.

So maybe we can talk a little bit about that.

If somebody wants to jump in.

>> Well okay as you are speaking you know I I had a couple of thoughts and I hope I can articulate them.

You know empathy.

Is something that that.

Can be difficult to cultivate.

If we feel like people are making bad decisions sometimes that affects our ability we tend to blame people for their substance use issues.

You know if you go back to that convenience store think though one thing we don't tend to do we don't tend to blame people further heart problems or their high blood pressure problems or their diabetic problems all of which can be.

>> Trace back to convenience turkey I mean we're not well we're not going to be so down on the Korea but my point is we tend to have more empathy for people with heart conditions or diabetes, even though there might be some behavioral things going on there that are driving those illnesses.

I certainly you I think it's worth noting that that there are behavioral components to other health conditions but we tend to buy into this thing that well folks dealing with substance abuse issues are creating their own problems in you know I think it's a kind of a common thing that just as a human we tend to create our own problems and then on I mean I don't want to monopolize the conversation but I do want to go back to something I heard during the teen town hall.

Deputy secretary Cody Kinsley took some time and met last weekend with a group of teenagers from across the state.

And one of the things that just blew me away and I wrote it down I hope I can relate here is a young person said.

You know what he said was to try to paraphrase what he said that I just resonated with me.

This young man said you know just try to keep in mind that everybody is dealing with something in and if you are not.

Get ready it's what this gentleman said you know to me that that just really speaks to.

The humanness of us all and then we're all going to have things we're dealing with right to me that's very it it in genders empathy it makes it easier to understand.

It I hope I hope articulated that correctly and that I quoted that the young man correctly >> thank you can you know, thank you I I think that's that was really well said I think that is the hard part to remember I remain at.

I grew up when they were showing those commercials on TV the anti-drug commercials.

The one where they cracked the into the this is your brain this is your brain on drugs and they the woman starts crashing around.

I don't know if you all remember those commercials.

>> And and I I think that I think you're right like there.

There is kind of a narrative around substance use that frames that very negatively and we forget that the person who is experiencing the substance use disorder is still human.

And so how do we humanize that experience without you know just saying older making their own choice right like.

>> Yeah, that's difficult.

It is it is and I think I think it it begins.

It begins even with language your eye right so just a word.

Abuse yeah, in and of itself.

Is a very derogatory term and it is it you are blaming a person.

You know one use that language and I know we've got a long way to go society but just the simple change to referring to this as substance use disorder and get rid of that a word that goes a long way that puts us on the right path.

Towards reduce the stigma and helping people to come from a place of empathy as opposed to a place of judgment right per se.

You know I was listening to Weston and I couldn't help but think to myself, you know, I've never heard anybody call the disease diabetes sugar abuse right right that's that sounds kind of crazy right, but you know, but we're from to substance use disorder.

This chronic illness.

As abuse and that's just not right and it perpetuates stigma.

It makes it almost impossible to come from a place of empathy you and I both know bad certain terms that we use especially when we're following to people.

It really allows us to to pass judgment upon them easily so when we were for to somebody has any legal 4 innings for example, then it makes it very easy to do you know can I just make all kinds of decisions that that directly impact that population of people in a negative manner as opposed to referring to somebody as as as I'm a citizen.

You know undocumented citizen but still a citizen that person is still a person is a father a mother you know when I was involved with substance use disorder.

You know as as as terrifying horrifying as that experience was I was still somebody sun Yang's I was still somebody's son.

And and you know you know when we can embrace that that's when we can begin to do.

You know approach this conversation from a place of empathy.

Absolutely that's.

>> That is a very powerful reminder to just thanking everybody remembering that everybody has a story everybody is a person they have.

History behind them they have a family, you know whether they're still tied to that family or not they they have people that they define his family.

West you said something earlier I think it would be good for us to go back to end it.

He didn't say the words, but you talked about dignity of risk and what that means for a person to make the decision for themselves and I think some of this you know we've talked a little bit about being modeling responsible behavior but also encouraging not encouraging that modeling dignity of Rusk right people should be able to choose for themselves.

The past is that something in your experience that AIDS in recovery.

Is that part of the recovery model.

>> You know I come from a background of working in support of people with intellectual and developmental disabilities and also people with with mental health issues and that's where I first heard that are addicted to risk.

Meaning you people grow for making mistakes and if we remove that ability of people to take risks and make mistakes then we're removing.

Opportunities for people to grow.

I don't know you know I do know that that in in the.

In the substance use treatment world.

I don't know that that term has really thrown around a light.

And I think there's one of the reasons is because people don't generally.

>> Stay in in a state of disability as long or maybe need a although people do need long-term supports.

Maybe not as intensely so I haven't heard that term used a lot in the substance use.

Treatment and support world.

Curtis to should is at a term you're familiar with the views are.

>> I'm familiar with that West.

I'm not too long out of school.

Pursue my social work degree so so yeah, I'm very familiar with that term.

Dignity of risk at I think in the substance use arena though what you would probably hear more often Kate would be multiple pathways.

You know there there are there he is.

More than one way to find recovery and you know I'm making a point it.

My agency and alcohol drug Council that we respect and embrace all pathways to recovery.

There is no one said pathway that has a monopoly one on helping people find long-term a sustained recovery and so you know we need to always be mindful of that.

And instead of even that even in that we can pass judgment on people inside that when they're not in recovery because they're not doing the things that I do or vice versa and that's that's just not sons you know what works for me.

Very well may not work for you or or the other way around and so I just need to cheer you on a 96 to support you your own individual last recovery program.

And if you need to hop up on the roof at 07:00AM every morning and holler like a rooster in order to stay clean.

Yes, then then hey I need to be prop in that latter up for you help you up on that route so that's that's not are about its battered make sure they are found off the roof.

That that example is a bit extreme.

Yeah I mean I get it though like sometimes there's an article going around about being a mom.

>> During this time and it is about parenting during remote learning and the mom she's a single mom in her.

Late 30's or early 40's and she is an 11 year-old son and every morning at 7 o'clock when the alarm clock goes off.

She and her son both scream at the top of their lungs and then they start the day and it's like I get that you know it's trying to release that.

>> That negative feeling and Sam pain now I can I can move on with my day and I can decide how that's going to look.

I wanted to give tisha a chance to to talk because she's been nodding your head a lot and an agreement did any of that would hurt us or West said to that resonate with you certainly actually believe in meeting people where they are and and to me that means supporting.

All pathways to recovery.

Whatever it is that a person needs to do for them sales.

To make decisions to do things different if their lives being affected in a negative way then like Curtis said we want to hold that ladder up and help you get up there.

We want to scream with that mom and that's and you know in the morning, it's just her release that energy you know we want to be a part of what is helping an individual person feel better where they are at and not setting expectations on that you know we just want to stand aside people and help them and being a mom myself.

Related to what Wes was talking about I use this this it's a lot.

I can't deny my children their pain.

I have to remind myself of that as a woman living in long-term recovery.

Matt children.

Our growing up in a world that is affected the second much more that illicit substances now then then when I was young so with that being said I can't tell my son not to drink.

The kuz.

He's old enough to drink if that's what he chooses to date.

However I can give him tool said that if he's had too much to drink that he knows it's OK to reach out to his mom and say I'm going to need someone to come and pick me up.

I want my children to know that I'm a safe place for them regardless of the choices.

They make just because something isn't right for me doesn't mean it's not right for them.

And although I want to divert them of any pain is not a right to do that they're they're growing and as individuals and I need to let them be able to do that.

That's that's very very powerful iron, I'm hoping that resonates with some of our our folks that are.

>> Listening in because I think that's that's probably true for a lot of of parents right now who have.

Young adults and young adults who were of age to purchase alcohol and cigarettes and they may not we may not like the decisions that are children make I think it you know obviously there's a line of what is safe and what is unsafe and when you cross into that unsafe territory as parents we step in.

But we also have to respect that dignity of risk of I guess I get it here.

You know I don't like what you're doing.

I'm not going to close the door on you write that closes the door on an 50 in judgment right there.

So the slide we have up right now does talk about the consumption of alcohol and increase.

And I think we can we can talk about that a little bit more if that's something you all would like to do.

These are these are concerning things right, we know.

Consumption of alcohol has gone up during the pandemic we know consumption of cigarettes and nicotine in and probably caffeine has gone up and food I I hear a lot of people say again 25 pounds in the last year is like.

Stressful course so maybe we kid get some people to start commenting in the facebook chat and we'll be able to go back to those but what are some things that are concerning maybe some folks have have been drinking a little bit more.

If we can go to slide.

11.

We can show there's different drinking levels in this is this was something we had in the original the first time we did this back in October.

We talked there's different levels of drinking and I'll be honest.

I did not no that's Tish could you help walk us through these different drinking levels to help us understand a little bit better absolutely.

So defining drinking levels.

>> Moderate alcohol consumption.

Moderate drinking is up to one drink per day for women and up to 2 drinks per day for men.

Binge drinking.

And I defines binge drinking as a pattern of drinking alcohol that brain's blood alcohol concentration.

2.0 8 or 0 0, 8, grams of alcohol.

For typical adult this pattern corresponds to consuming 5 or more drinks a binge drinking 5 or more drinks for me and I am or 4.

Or more drinks for female in about a 2 hour time span and heavy alcohol use is to find.

And as.

Heavy alcohol use has more than 4 drinks on any day for men and more than 3 drinks for women.

Sam said the funds heavy alcohol use as binge drinking on 5 or more days in the past Matt.

So when when leads into the other.

>> It sound it does sound like they're kind of interconnected and maybe if you're stressed out right, you're leaning maybe before you're moderately drinking.

But maybe you start that pattern some people may be starting patterns of I'm in a moderately drink 2 or 3 days in a row.

>> Well, then what happens that that can escalate right so that could that could be very concerning if we kid go to the next slide.

This was something that our substance use team shared with us we have a section on youth problem gambling at the division and they shared they shared these statistics with us approximately 45% of youth ages, 12 to 17 meet one or more criteria of having a gambling problem.

So when we talk about substance use we we've talked about tobacco we've talked about sugar alcohol.

I don't think we've talked about.

Problem gambling but that that's another substance.

You know or or screen time staying on our screen brain engaging that's that takes us away from our families but I wanted to share this.

And if if folks have questions about problem gambling they can reach out to the division.

We can help connect them with resources.

So maybe we can go on to the next slide and I can toss it back to you to show.

Okay so what a substance use disorder.

The use of substances does not have to meet the criteria of being the disorder to cause problems in your life.

For example getting a DWI can be very expensive and caused great difficulties with transportation.

>> When does not have to have a substance use disorder to get a D W S. >> And I I think what struck me with this one too is that it's a substance use disorders and equal opportunity disorder effects.

All P it can affect people regardless of race ethnicity socioeconomic status employment.

Then of course on the flip side.

Can impact those areas of your life your employment, your socioeconomic status.

To show you said it can affect transportation that's those are.

Interconnected issues.

Well in addition, I think.

>> It's a very good point you know and and the only thing I would like to add is that it definitely >> substance use can certainly affect your relationships negatively as well right.

So your relationships at home your relationships that work your relationships in the community.

Certainly something.

That.

That you don't have to have a substance use disorder to mess up a relationship.

>> With the use of substances I guess the point I'm trying to make sense.

And then there are other issues as well so you know it it's not just about >> you know the issue isn't just is the message today we're not just trying to to speak to people who might be having functional issues because of substances we really want to drive home that we're talking about.

The substance use and general.

Yes.

>> And I hope I hope I haven't gone too far down that road.

>> I did if I can.

Wanted to go back to the empathy thing a little yeah because I did have a point I had I had wanted to kind of throw out there and see what.

What others thought of.

But you know it is often struck me that one of the other reasons it's easy or maybe we don't always have empathy for people.

Is is because of the criminality piece illicit substances that could be very difficult for people to relate to.

I think generally refers very long time our society has.

Kind of had a moralistic view of substance use.

You know.

I think that's starting to somewhat shift.

I think we're beginning as a nation to see it more as a health issue than a moral or even a criminal issue.

>> Certainly some states have moved forward with decriminalizing substances that traditionally have had very heavy criminal penalties.

You know I think I think that's hopeful in some ways that that that maybe we're beginning not to not to immediately just equate substance use with criminality or a moral failure.

It's something I think we really need to have more dialogue about and and I'm interested in what the fellow panelist might might have to say your thoughts on that topic.

Well Wes >> how much time do we have you touched on what makes my heart be you know what I'm most passionate about which is you know reentry there that reentry population is specially.

Returning citizens that are impacted by substance use disorder and you know I think it's vitally important that we as a society get to a place where where where we're setting the stage for for these individuals to be able to return home return to society and its successful manner.

Manner in which they never ever have to return today to answer a name.

You know it is vitally important is so much trauma involved with with the incarceration situation, not just for that person before their families for their children for their mate someone so for all those relationships that you referred to earlier.

I don't want to I don't want to mission creep in get too far down this road as I could talk for days on that particular subject.

What I will say to this slide, okay is that yeah absolutely substance use disorder does not discriminate it is very much an equal opportunity disorder and so the flip side of that is that we must make sure that recovery is also a nondiscriminatory situation that the historically mock marginalized populations of folks people who don't normally have access to good health care.

Good nutrition.

Have to buy their groceries at that convenience store that you're right you're talking about.

You know we've got to change that we've got to make sure that everybody regardless of race regardless of religion regardless of what they look like or what they believe in.

That they have access to to adequate in an effective health care, especially in regards to substance use disorder.

>> Yeah, I have.

Absolutely and I think there's there's so much we could talk about and unpacked and I want to give to shift at a chance to respond to.

>> Caring about people being compassionate and having that empathy is the key to.

Eliminating the stigma.

We don't have to talk about it is if something is morally wrong with the person.

We can stay inside the solution about doing what we can to not see why they're doing it right now let's get back up to the top of the river and see how it was getting put in there so that the rest of the rivers clean only get past but it's actually going on if that makes any sense you know in Mackey it that makes perfect sense.

But.

I just think that.

We have to be more caring we have to be compassionate act, I'm a person who was cared for and it started from the very beginning of the last day that I used and officer.

Shared.

Katniss and compassion to me I've shared my story about him helping me and one of the vital parts of it was.

He stopped at the stop sign and turned around in his seat and looked at me and he spoke to me like I was a human being.

It was the first time that ahead feel like tisha in a very long time because he took time.

Chad want to have a conversation about what it brought me there and what could be done to keep me from going back to that place and that's why wake up every day and like artist ACA talk about this all for the rest of the night and we could stay and talk about it RJ it's it's why get up and do what I do every day because other people have been cadyn compassionate to me and I just feel like that's the answer.

I feel I us answer yeah and the reality to to she is is that >> you know both of our stories your stories or zoom stories my but the commonality is such that locking us up in cages yes.

That that wasn't helping out or situation.

What whatsoever.

What we needed was help us a person dealing with substance use disorder right now today, locking them away in a cage like an animal is not going to help this situation as a matter of fact it very likely can make it worse.

So we have to get to a point of of empathy understanding compassion and treatment for dealing with this chronic illness as opposed to a point the finger and blaming people and acting as if it's their own fault.

>> People can use the tolls if we're not providing ma'am.

It's why we're going to continue to do the same thing expecting a different result if it's not me it's not part of it.

Thank you for bringing that out my gosh that was like I'm with you guys I wish we can't we had more time to talk about that piece of it because it's so big but to she touched on something that we need to get to which is the tools and one of the tools that we have in this in this slide deck that we can share with folks is the rapid alcohol problems screener wraps and I am not the person to talk about that West can you talk about that please yes, thank you Kate and I try to be very breezy.

I love.

>> You we first learned about this tool in mental health first aid.

Mental health first aid training is is eight-hour course which actually teaches people how to identify understand and respond to signs that people around them may be having some mental distress may be experiencing some mental distress or might be engaged in substance use.

It really hfa a mental health first aid trans people not just to recognize that that gives you the confidence and the tools to to go in and intervene right.

So that's why we learned about the rabbit alcohol problem screen.

And as the slide says it has you know been found to be very highly effective.

Really cool thing about this tool.

You know is it you can use this tool to assess.

You can self assess whether you're substance use might be approaching that line.

Into substance use disorder right.

So this is just a very simple self-assessment I think we would need to go to the next screen to actually see what the questions are.

But I said is simple, it's basically for questions that you would use for some self reflection so you would ask yourself these questions.

Have you ever had a few in the guilt or remorse after drinking as a friend or family member ever told you about things you said or did.

While you're drinking that you could not remember have you failed to do is normally expected of you because of drinking and then the last do you sometimes take a drink when you first get up in the morning.

So if you go through this and you find that you're answering yes to any of these questions.

The next step might be to ask for some support right and and I think you know, here's my favorite part of this whole presentation is where I get to say you don't have to do that alone and you there are organizations and individuals out there who want to help support people.

To get you know to to strive for health.

And I believe.

You know the the wraps for very simple tool.

But but really a tool that that is designed to where people can get just kind of a baseline as far as where I'm I'm so thank you does does that make sense and I hope I've explained in a way that that yeah it helped me understand it better I think it's a good reflection of.

>> Being able to do something on our own because one sweet what's possibly there's been a line crossed and it slid into substance use disorder.

You're you're somewhere in a therapeutic session in someone's maybe do an assessment that type of thing these are things that we can ask ourselves at home.

You know maybe maybe the mom his isolated in her house with 3 kids too.

Is not doing anything intentional and nothing in her life is changing or looks bad, but maybe she can realize that she's drinking a little bit more than what she was and is able to to get some.

Hold on that I guess is maybe what a morning to say it just makes it more realistic it puts it in our hands, it gives us something to be able to use so I think that it's great that we're here talking about it now but >> but that isha the real dish in me wants to like put this on the TV screen.

While the football games going on that people can seriously ask themselves.

This question I think it's a great tool less a day.

>> Thank you not everyday thoughts.

That's for sure and there was a reason I mention that we got this from the mental health first aid training and the reasons we that's actually training that our team actually offers in the community.

The folks are interested in that raid and you can even contact cater myself and we can talk about that also Elam EMC owes are out there doing that training highly recommended if you get a chance to get involved in one of those trainings we do recommend folks that's no cost training, correct.

Generally speaking it just depends I think if there is a cost it's it's under $30 for the book or something yes, Sir, yes, Sir.

>> Well and I think when we talk about tools scoot is a tool right so and one of the things you all have mentioned is relationships and so even when we're looking and I think it really for me with this particular the in scoop.

There are things that tie that go from from the S and the sea and they tie into the next one that we're doing I can't I think it's the 6th March 16th, yeah, and then March 30th.

You know it's OK to ask for help great and when you if you find yourself in this type of situation, having compassion for yourself in this situation where you know you maybe you do that.

South questionnaire and rather than being h#*#*#* on yourself.

What would you say to somebody if you you know your friend or your family member who was in this a similar position right and then staying connected, Wes you just say we can't do this alone right, you know.

We have peer support specialist center community we have folks who are ready in there to talk about it to show and Curtis you've shared so much about your own stories.

And sharing our stories as part of the process scoop is another tool, what are some other tools we can use to help ourselves in these stressful times and observing hour.

>> Or use.

Curtis you wanna ticket office them.

>> Some tools.

Yeah well it so happens that I serve as actually honored to serve as the executive director of alcohol drug Council of North Carolina.

>> And what we do in our agency is we operate a statewide information and referral hotline.

Specifically for services.

Dealing with substance use disorder for any North Carolina citizens, we serve us all 100 counties in our great state.

Our phone number is 1 806 8, 8, 4, 2, 3, 2, The amazing to see a temple on this panel with us tonight is is one of one of my information referral specialist and so we we pick up that phone.

Every day all day and we take calls.

To should basically assesses that individual situation right there on the phone asking a series of questions and then very quickly to Tom is the appropriate the appropriate level of care for that individual and we're not some agency that's rough on people to Malibu.

Shipping people off the Florida.

We're making referrals right here in that person's community.

And we are not dictating to them.

What that service looks like we're finding now on the learning from that individual what's going to work for them what what is it they're that they're seeking and we will will connect them to that.

So again we respect and embrace all pathways to recovery.

One of the referrals that is normally made on every single one of those calls is to what we call an Ellen me and see a local man is local management entity.

Slash managed care organization.

And I think there's a slide that shows like a map of the state where all the elements he owes are their 7 currently.

So you have to find out what what ella me.

Overseas your particular catchment area.

For example, wake County is in the alliance catchment area home.

But that's just one County.

And our state but there are.

Many many tools what one of the coolest things about my agency that I like is that the majority of the staff there are also in long-term recovery themselves.

And so they're absolutely come in approaching this conversation from a place of empathy and understanding and compassion.

They also had to navigate.

You know this system that which is not always the most organized and incoherence his system to deal with.

So they they've been there them sales and they've had to do that they've experienced some of the same feelings that the folks that call us have experience and I think that that helps in volumes for us to get people the help that they so desperately need.

>> Absolutely that lived experience part is really important and part of our.

I would say our team philosophy is also very driven by the lived experience.

Lifting up the voices of people who have been there and and been through it to show what are some of the tools that that you want to share with folks that are important.

>> So working with alcohol jet cancel North Carolina, I think one of the best things that we do is asked people what.

What they think is going to work for them when I'm having a conversation with somebody and like tell me what it looks like.

You're seeking some help what what does that look like for you and someone may not know the answer you know when someone may know exactly what it is that they want but we're able to prompt a conversation where.

Someone who is brand new to asking for help can look into different options so I think that that's an up tremendous tool to be able to offer to someone has to say how do you feel about this this or this and we also able to engage in a conversation where.

A lot of the Times Matt dialogue goes out like I'm going to give you several telephone numbers and then once we get them right down I'm going to go back up to the top with you and I'm gonna help you walk through what is going to look like to call each of these places.

And I encouraged him at the same time to stay engaged when they disconnect with me.

I think that just.

Sharing some hope with another individual or family member or you know because we have children that are calling for their parents.

We have grandparents who are calling for their great grand kids you know is just an array and what more we talk about that this disease does not discriminate it does not discriminate we have parole officers who are looking for help for the people that they're looking working with we have case managers from the prisons trying to help people come out and to have a plan said we get to just have a whole lot of conversations and a lot of times we're able to give some self-help tools as well.

A lot of times people may not even want.

Some information and referrals to maybe a facility.

They just want to know what they can do to feel better for that day.

Well some personal experience tells me that is going to be really really good if you're open and honest with your family about you need some quiet time.

And that you need to be alone and that you're not trying to isolate right now and you know get a book sit down somewhere quiet forget about the whole rest of the world read the book expand into that you know and just different.

Staff care to lose what is it that you like to do go outside take a walk some people find it therapeutic T. >> Make mask.

I mean that was just a little J because west of town.

But you know they're APD things painting same thing dancing doing yoga and just as what is it that something you can do to get outside of the moments that you're an sometimes that's all a person needs as well.

>> If I may I I just find that fascinating and very encouraging that first question that you ask.

Really reinforces.

Your organization believes that people calling her the subject matter experts in their own lives salute and that is such a shift in philosophy reveal my age here I did in this field now for 27 years that is such a shift.

In philosophies from when I first really enter this field.

You and I just want to drive that home that.

That is so encouraging to me to hear that that's the very first thing you guys explore because I think it is a basic tenant of recovery.

The people know what they need they they clean.

Right they may not know how to get there may not know how to get to it may need a lot of support around that.

>> But generally speaking people are the subject matter experts of their own lives and greatly encouraged to hear that thank you for sharing that without having that conversation.

>> We may be missing missing a huge opportunity to help someone because every person who calls who says that they're struggling with alcohol is not looking for me to give them information for detox but to have that conversation with them maybe they're looking for and a meeting maybe they're looking for in a meeting maybe they want some faith-based recovery and I can tell them about recovery alive or celebrate recovery and just give them some tools is in their own community because.

They need to do it their way but if I just automatically assume hey, you're drinking alcohol you're going to need a medical detox let me to be this number.

I've lost an opportunity that someone who picked up the phone with the purpose to call and ask for a meeting schedule is not going make it to a meeting that day because that tried to shed the top down the road.

And our loud better words >> I would be remiss if I didn't point out that that our services are 100% free yes now now the service that you go get my have a cost to it whatever but this information and referral service that we're providing is free to the caller.

And that's do because we are funded by the state of North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services so you know in that regard.

Usis pleaded just 1, 1, 8, 106 8, 8, 4, 2, 3, 2, You there's also a way that you can text with us.

I don't remember that the text number of top my head, but I think that's in the power point slides and you can also go to our website which is www that alcohol drug help .org.

And you can actually chat with one of our team members as well right so.

>> Is so helpful to hear and I think it does it does go back to that empowerment piece that starting with the person is the subject matter expert of their own lives that's very empowering.

I would think that when you talk to somebody going through that and you start from that place of empathy and non judgment and you're saying you know, let me support you where you are to get where you want to go that probably has more success than telling a person in dictating to them the steps that they're supposed to take right.

I don't think we have anything in the chat right now.

What I hope people will add is what they're doing right now to manage stress.

To she mentioned painting you're doing or going for walks where some things that you're doing right now like you personally what are you enjoying for stress relief.

So I'm reading more books than ever and these are non school-related books because I got a text books want to do that but I am.

>> Purposely.

Finding the U.S. that that feel me with.

Xscape thing.

>> And able to unwind that not being in my computer my phone on social media or watching TV.

It's a very precious time from a prayer meditation is huge I want to start Monday that way and I want to continue to turn to that throughout the day.

Is getting pretty outside we just get some yard work this past weekend.

I heard someone say on Thursday do something that you've never done.

I've never liked planted flowers, but I mean we went all out in the yard.

>> Maybe this is what I than you're going to have to share some book titles like me and I'll share some.

Curtis what are you doing for self-care.

>> Probably the most important thing that I do.

For Tilly a stress is exercise.

>> I'm a runner I've I'm 50 years old but I've run around a half marathon in under 2 hours.

Isom due to due to COVID-19 I'm now an outside run and so you know, I'm a real run are now used to do I'm running on treadmills and people look to me like what is not real run it right now now understand what they meant.

Yes, yes, l'oreal siren is where it's at a whole different experience >> but but I'm also an avid reader like Titian stated on time I've constantly got at least one book that I'm reading.

For recreational purposes in continued even throughout my my college career as well you know, I also enjoy just watch and some really stupid own TV.

Point is that the Corning, you know.

Everybody loves Raymond or ease in.

You know I can count a gis.

>> You know just bid out for little wow.

Also I do enjoy food and that's that's part.

A reason why run so much West because of all want a cookie I want to be able to grab a cookie without guilt or whatever, but you know though those in just a few of the ways I think that.

The running an exercise in though, especially being a person in recovery.

Have helped us tremendously.

You know we don't we certainly don't want to.

Survive right the hail of substance use disorder.

Only later to succumb to something like diabetes or or heart disease I mean it one day all of us are going away from here from something but we can do our part the try to live as a healthy.

Lifestyle as we possibly can and so that's that's kind of where I'm at.

I love it.

>> West what about you well I I'm noticing within the slide.

You know it the the 3rd bullet spending time with loved ones.

>> And then the 4th when >> yeah, I love that it is a balancing act, especially now >> the but my wife and I both are working out of our home and we downsized couple years ago, Sir home is not his baby.

There's not as many hiding places so yeah maybe I think that's that's a balancing act it's it's very important to me to spend time with loved ones.

But it's also equally is important probably did have some boundaries, I'll tell you I I would like to share something you know I became aware of a guy named William Glasser.

Back in the 80's.

It was kind of a pop psychologist and he came up with this term and a book called positive addictions.

And for me I have a couple of those actually be I'm one of those is surfing.

And the other one is music.

And and I I do when I find myself getting stressed out I generally try to get in the water or start making some music and that seems to work out for me pretty well.

A survey of course is somewhat dependent on the conditions.

And now I'll just wrap this up by saying speaking of conditions.

In the last month where I live I think we've had.

Only 2 instances where we had sunshine more than 2 days in a row for the entire month of February off and now human service professionals are really good at making up acronyms I mean it is something we've gotten very good at jargon had in my favor an acronym really is sad.

Because it it actually makes sense Adams seasonal affective disorder true story and so one of the ways that I have used to reduce my stress and to strive to be healthy is to make sure that I'm getting sunshine and that I'm doing a vitamin D supplement.

I mean I don't want to oversimplify this but just the other day where we saw the sun for the first time in like 3 days.

I made it a point to get out and get my chair out and just sit in the sun.

Maybe sounds like a simple thing to do.

But for me maybe not so simple.

I have a tough time just city.

Yeah I think that but yeah that's that's me I have some ways that I.

You know some very set ways that that I've I worked to reduce my stress.

>> Thank you for asking well, thank you for sharing that thank you all for sharing that and I think to should parents.

Occurrence I don't know if you have children we've never actually talked about that, but you know as as parents and and if you have young people in your life modeling those positive behaviors modeling.

>> Those the good and healthy CE ways that we can we can manage our stress.

Those are things that we can teach our children while they're young and help them Foster, those positive skills as they get older, so when they find themselves as adults and having to navigate the adult world.

You know they call adulting now it's like turned for yet then they have they have the tools that hopefully will make it a little bit more manageable.

>> But also setting boundaries with things so that they can manage their mental health and I think that's hard for us to all can figure out like sometimes we have to set those boundaries right with ourselves too.

>> I don't know that we've had any more comments come in on facebook so we'll go ahead and just kind of start wrapping it up but that's all right with you all.

>> So tonight we did observe your use of substances I think we had a really powerful conversation that talked about empathy and approaching conversations from a judgment free zone, so we can help reduce the stigma.

On March 16th will be doing OK to ask for help.

We have another panel of folks who are going to talk about why it's OK to ask for help.

How asking for help is really the brave thing to do.

March 30th is physical activity.

We know that physical activity can help improve your mood that doesn't mean that you have to become a marathon sprinter run or whatever it is you know any kind of physical movement and they're going to talk more about how physical activity can really boost.

Here this your mood.

So if you are meaning help and you need some additional resources.

We have the hope for NC line that's +1-855-587-3463.

You can find all of the scoop on managing stress on the dhhs website.

We also again this is on social media, this has been live streamed on the governor's institutes.

Facebook page.

And you can search for scoop for stress on your social media accounts tough to find those events and topics if you're interested in getting a copy of the slide deck.

We we didn't really go through every single slide.

But I you can always request that information there's a lot of really helpful things in this.

Let's go to the next slide if we can.

You know we can't really do something like this without talking about the 3 W's.

We know right now that more folks are becoming vaccinated that's amazing and we're so that brings me hope enjoy.

But with that we still have to practice or 3 W's because we know that does reduce the spread of COVID-19 so that is wearing a face cloth covering and that goes over the nose.

Not just below the nose but really over the nose.

Waiting 6 feet apart to avoid close contact washing your hands often or using hand sanitizer we have all of this information on our COVID-19 dashboard.

Including the graphics in both English and Spanish.

And we also have really helpful videos on how to wear the mask properly.

You have a spot take your shot hour moving to our faces were in phase 3 right now of our vaccination groups.

I think with with some some of the information that's coming out that's very hopeful will be moving along with that if you follow any of our leadership on social media, they do talk about how many folks we've have who have been vaccinated and that's also available on the dashboard the COVID-19 dashboard.

Going back to hope friends seen this is a 24 7 support resource line.

You can call that phone number you can also chat or text hope to 1, 8, 5, 5, 587-3463 to get resources to help get that support you may need and that is kind of that starting point you know.

And then of course we also have hope for healers those are our frontline health care workers are educators or school staff and administrators.

Nurses EMT knees our first responders we have a line for for all of those essential workers that as is very similar to a friend see but specifically for those dealing with the crisis at the front of the line.

That number is 919-226-2002.

If you or someone you know is in crisis first please call 911 and ask for see 80 officer or you can call your alum EMC that's a local management and steer managed care organization.

We have their crisis lines.

Night that is a kind of first entry points into getting some crisis assistance.

And we can go yeah and so these this here, the slide has the good crisis lines.

You can also dial star start ask and that is a no wrong door number so it's a nationwide and if you call that number and you know you talk to somebody who might be in Alabama and those in use am in North Carolina and we'll get you to the right person.

>> Roads next >> if you are struggling to navigate the system if you come up with any issues or any complaints or concerns you can call our customer service and community rights team.

At +1-855-262-1946 or 9, 8, 4, 236-5300 we have a great team that helps assist families and individuals who are needing to access public services.

>> And I think that is it this is contact information.

Thank you again to share and and Curtis so much for being here for helping to have this very brief conversation.

>> And we really appreciate you so much in and sharing that and I I'm with you we could be here all night talking about empathy and self-care and going into supporting our our debt our diverse populations and yeah.

>> Thank you for >> well and West, thank you for for letting me join you tonight in your being with her list so.

>> Thank you Kate, you have any final thoughts Curtis you want to start us off in any final thoughts.

>> You know, I guess I would just leave everybody you know with with the thought that there's always hope.

Yes there's absolutely always hope.

If I can live the life that I live in today after the life then I want slim there is hope for everybody and I mean everybody so you know again you're next segment goes into.

It's OK to ask for help yes please by all means if you need something to be a struggle with anything please don't be afraid to reach out for help.

Don't let the stigma put you in a great.

Just don't allow the shame and the guilt to overwhelm.

Understand that we are all in perfect and we all need each other and you know asking for help is a sign of strength, not one of weakness.

So pay attention to what's going on with the ask yourself those those questions in in in if you decide for yourself that that something needs to change then don't try to do it alone reach out for help let us help you.

Yeah we're all in this together to share.

>> Any any last thoughts.

Piggybacking off of what Curtis just saying.

You are enough.

That's just simply what it is we are all enough and if we've got some things going on it's it's okay to not be OK. Just don't say stuff can reach out for help I think that it's beautiful to say there is strength in asking for help absolutely.

>> Well thank you Kate and I can somewhat in closing I'd like to circle back to that empathy question which job.

I just thought I'd share you know something that that I found very helpful.

Having a long long time ago, but I was really struggling I would hear people's stories and not be able to relate.

And I have a very a person very close to me a mentor.

Kind of clued me in and what that gentleman told me said West try this is it when people are talking try try listening for the similarities and said I'm looking forward to differences sore right and I find it found that when I consciously did that.

I was able to find a lot of similarities at the feelings level.

Right so feelings of desperation or feelings of worthlessness kind of think we might not have been through the exact same circumstances.

But when I started listening for those similarities and sort of looking for the differences it really helped me to feel more connected with people and to develop that empathy so so thank you for letting me get that it I meant to mention it earlier and it just kind of got lost, but thank you Kate I really did enjoy this evening's conversation and thank you for facilitating this conversation.

>> Well I I'm glad that you close with empathy too because I think that is such a powerful thing, especially right now with everything that's happening.

We we need more empathy every day and we need and to see to carry us through what we're going through now, but we need empathy afterwards to paper there's long haul after this right.

We've got the recovery from what what we're going through now and that's going to take an puppy too.

So there have been just final updates, you know going back to that vaccine dashboard there have been some updates to that recently I think today there are some that were published loose when encourage people to circle back to that reach out to us at the at the division reach out to Curtis and to to shed at the Al contract Council and hopefully we we had some people take away some really helpful.

Tips today, not just on how to.

>> How to observe their use of substances but also.

>> How to start from those places of empathy and non judgment and be caring and with each other and with your kids and yourselves.

So thank you guys so much I'm sad we don't have more time thank you say, thank you we have this is great.

Thank you Curtis addition, thank you guys are awesome.

We really are.