>> ERIC: BACK IN JUNE, THE U.S. SUPREME COURT RULED IN A 6-3 DECISION THAT IT'S NOT UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO PENALIZE PEOPLE FOR SLEEPING OUTSIDE ON PUBLIC PROPERTY.

CITIES SUCH AS ROCHESTER AND DULUTH HAVE PASSED ORDINANCES LOOKING TO DISCOURAGE HOMELESS ENCAMPMENTS, AND LAST WEEK CAMP NENOOKAASI IN MINNEAPOLIS WAS EVICTED FOR THE FOURTH TIME THIS YEAR.

KATELYN VUE IS A HOUSING REPORTER FOR THE SAHAN JOURNAL AND HAS BEEN TAKING A CLOSE LOOK AT LOCAL ORDINANCES HERE IN MINNESOTA.

I KNOW FOR A FACT IN DULUTH THERE WAS VIGOROUS DEBATE ABOUT MISDEMEANOR OR JUST A FINE OR -- WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE IMPACT OF THIS RULING?

>> ON JULY 29th, THEY PASSED AGE ORDINANCE ABOUT THIS OF MAKING THE LIMIT A FINE FOR SOMEONE WHO'S SLEEPING OUTSIDE ON PUBLIC PROPERTY UP TO 200 AND THEY ALSO VOTED TO REMOVE THE LANGUAGE ABOUT MAKING THIS OFFENSE AND MISDEMEANOR 'MISDEMEANORS CRIME.

SO I THINK IN A WAY THEY SORT OF SAW THE PUBLIC CONCERN AROUND THIS ORDINANCE SO THEY REMOVED THE MISDEMEANOR LANGUAGE BUT STILL THERE WILL STILL BE SOME FINE, SOME TYPE OF ENFORCEMENTS TO DETER END CAMPMENTS.

>> Cathy: WE SHOULD MAYBE GO BACK AND START T THE BEGINNING WITH THIS RULING.

IT ALLOWS THE REMOVAL OF HOLMES CARRIAGES IN CITIES, BUT THERE ARE ADVOCATES FOR THE HOLMES WHO SAY YOU'RE CRIMINALIZING HOMELESSNESS.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT ARGUMENT?

>> SINCE THIS IS A SUPREME COURT RULING, I THINK GENERALLY THAT THROWS, YOU KNOW, ALARM BELLS AT FOLKS BUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE SUPREME COURT DID WAS THAT IT'S REALLY UP TO THE CITIES TO PASS THEIR OWN ORDINANCE ABOUT THIS SO ROCHESTER PASSED THEIR OWN ORDINANCE ABOUT THIS IN FEBRUARY, DULUTH WAS THE NICKS CITY AND BRAINERD AND BAXTER ARE THE NEXT COUPLE OF CITIES THAT ARE LOOKING TO POST THE ORDINANCES AND ADVOCATES ARE WORRIED THAT THIS IS ONLY PUSHING THE PROBLEM TO OTHER CITIES THAT DON'T HAVE THESE ORDINANCES.

>> Eric: SO THE FUTURE OF HE EVER CAMPMENTS IS WHAT, I WONDER?

>> THAT'S A TRICKY QUESTION.

THE STORY I WROTE AT THE SAHAN JOURNAL, I TALKED ABOUT HOW MINNEAPOLIS AND St. PAUL FOCUS ON THEIR END CAMPMENTS?

THEY SORT OF HAVE A DIFFERENT APPROACH, I THINK St. PAUL HAS A HIGHER BAR WITH POSTING VACATE NOTICES VERSUS MINNEAPOLIS, AND WE'VE SEEN MINNEAPOLIS COME INTO THE NEWS QUITE OFTEN ABOUT THEIR PRACTICES ON VICTIM ENCAMPMENTS AND THE CRITICS HAVE POINTED OUT, YOU KNOW, AFTER CLEANING AN NCAMPMENT THAT THEY HAVE REBEL PLACE IN THOSE LAWS.

>> Eric: TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T COME BACK.

>> Cathy: GOING BACK TO BRAINERD, ARE THESE CITIES YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, DULUTH, ROCHESTER, BRAINERD, ARE THERE ISSUES WITH FOLKS WHO ARE CAMPING OUT?

>> YEAH, SO, LIKE, I THINK WITH THIS ORDINANCE, I THINK WHAT IS -- LAW ENFORCEMENT ARE ACTUALLY THE FOLKS THAT HAVE BEEN RGING THEIR OWN LOCAL OFFICIALS TO PASS THIS ORDINANCE.

THEY WANT IT AS A TOOL BECAUSE THEY FEEL THAT THERE AREN'T OTHER OPTIONS TO DETER THIS AND, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE ENCAMPMENTS GROWING, LIKE IN ROCHESTER, THAT WAS A BIG REASON WHY.

THERE WAS A FIRE AND PEOPLE HAD OVERDOSES AT THESE END CAMPMENTS AND SO IT'S REALLY BEEN LAW ENFORCEMENT PUSHING THIS.

>> Eric: AND THIS IS A PENALTIES EVEN IF THERE ARE NO SHELTER SPOTS AVAILABLE?

>> YEAH, EXACTLY.

THAT'S -- >> Eric: WHAT ARE THE FOLKS SUPPOSED TO DO?

>> THAT'S A LAYER THAT I THINK THAT ADVOCATES ARE POINTING OUT, TOO, THAT IT'S PENALIZING FOLKS WHO HAVE NOWHERE ELSE TO GO.

YEAH, THAT'S THE BIG ARGUMENT THERE.

>> Cathy: SO IN TERMS OF NEXT STEPS, THEN, DO YOU -- WHAT'S YOUR REPORTING, WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM SOURCE?

WILL OTHER CITIES AROUND MINNESOTA KNOLL SUIT FROM DULUTH AND BRAINERD AND THE TWIN CITIES?

>> SO I TALKED TO MINNEAPOLIS AND I TALKED TO St. PAUL AND THEY ARE ADAMANT THAT THIS HAS NO IMPACT ON CURRENT POLICIES.

I'VE TALKED TO THE MINNESOTA INTERAGENCY HOMELESS COUNCIL AND THEY'RE A CABINET LEVEL BODY OF STATE AGENCIES.

I TALKED TO THE DIRECTOR THERE AND SHE SAID THAT THIS WON'T IMPACT FUNDING PRIORITIES OR STATE AGENCY PRIORITIES SO THAT'S WHAT THEY'VE BEEN ADAMANT ABOUT.

>> Eric: IS THERE DECENT COORDINATION, WHAT DOES YOUR REPORTING SAY ABOUT THE STATE, LOCAL IX OF COORDINATION?

I MEAN, IS EVERYBODY ROWING THE BOAT IN THE SAME DIRECTION?

>> YEAH, SO MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR AND St. PAUL MAYOR HAVE SAID THAT THE SCOPE OF SERVICES THEY HAVE ATTRACTS A LOT OF THE FOLKS THAT RE DEALING WITH HOMELESSNESS, BUT THAT PUTS A LOT OF PRESSURE ON THOSE TWO CITIES TO TRY TO MEET THOSE HOUSING NEEDS.

SO MINNEAPOLIS MAYOR AND St. PAUL MAYOR HAVE SAID THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE REGIONAL AND STATEWIDE APPROACHES TO HOMELESSNESS.

>> Cathy: INTERESTING.

ALWAYS A GOOD JOB, KAITLIN.