♪ opening music ♪ ♪ Gavin> Welcome to This Week in South Carolina.

I'm Gavin Jackson.

This week, we have a legislative update and we look at the Democratic Presidential Primary.

And to do that, I'm joined by Maayan Schechter with South Carolina Public Radio and Jeffrey Collins with the Associated Press.

Y'all, welcome to the new set.

Jeffrey> Hello, Gavin, and welcome back to South Carolina.

Gavin> Yeah, it's a great little coming home present here having this new set.

So let's break it in.

Jeffrey, let's talk about the Statehouse and what's been going on We're about a month into session right now.

And this week we had a big debate going on in the Senate over a House approved constitutional carry bill dealing with guns.

What's the latest on that?

They had a late Wednesday night.

Where does the bill stand right now?

Jeffrey> The Senate has now changed the House bill that came over to them.

So there was a compromise that came up about 1145 on a Wednesday night.

And the compromise essentially would create a system where people could get free training to get a CWP, concealed weapons permit and the cost roughly.

Shane Massey estimates Senator Shane Massey, $45 million, although they didn't get like a true like normal like financial impact statement.

And what that would allow is people could go and get training, but that being said, you don't have to get the training.

It's open carry of guns.

If you're legally allowed to carry a weapon, you can carry a weapon, you can carry it in the open, you can carry wherever you like to carry it.

And so what the compromise does too, is it adds the stick part of it is, if you do, if you are open carry and you carry a weapon somewhere you're not supposed to, somewhere that weapons are prohibited, there'd be an extra penalty on top.

So the thought is we're trying to encourage people to go get that training so they could learn how to properly use a weapon, the laws around that kind of thing and everything kind of a CWP, concealed weapons permit like kind of program.

Gavin> Yeah.

Jeffrey> But essentially what it comes down to is this is going to allow people to open carry guns.

There also is the provision that the governor has been pushing for very hard, that that increases penalties, state penalties if a felon is carrying a gun or someone that isn't supposed to carry a gun is carrying a gun when they commit a crime.

And that's been a big part of this.

That's what the governor says.

He'll take, he'll sign that, whatever you attach it to.

Gavin> Is that still part of the bill?

Jeffrey> That is still part of the bill.

Gavin>...that's a big way of getting that through and also getting law enforcement somewhat on board with this because they're a little touchy about this bill.

Jeffrey> Right.

This bill, law enforcement is not particularly well, not all law enforcement a lot of them are not particularly happy because situations where, you show up somewhere and several people have a gun and they have to quickly assess who's a threat and who's not.

You know, all of a sudden, it allows things to escalate a lot more quickly because people may have guns in their possession that they wouldn't have before.

So but part of the deal was law enforcement said, if you can give us those extra penalties, then okay, we'll be okay with it.

Gavin> Yeah, because right now in South Carolina, they passed that constitutional carry with training, that open carry with training essentially.

So you have to get your CWP training, but you can still carry openly.

Now, we're trying to go beyond that.

Jeffrey> Right.

There won't be anyone that can legally own a weapon, can carry it without training if the bill passes.

Gavin> Little worrisome there, but we'll see where it goes because now it has to go back to the House at this point.

Jeffrey> Right.

And the House, has, I mean...we'll see.

It just came up very recently.

So I don't know where the...people in the House stand, but it does, it does give- That penalty may give people some pause, especially people that think there should be the least amount of limits on, on, you know, your Second Amendment rights as possible.

It'll be an interesting debate in the House.

Gavin> So not a poison pill, but definitely some way of maybe pausing this debate a little bit longer.

Jeffrey> Certainly doesn't give the House what they want.

So it certainly gives an opportunity for there to be some argument and debate.

Gavin> I'd love to see that, the House and Senate working together in such a way.

Maayan, speaking of the House this week, I kept hearing the phrase Florida legislation or this is similar to the bill that we saw in Florida.

I mean, I know Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is no longer in the 2024 race, but we haven't seen a lot of legislation that mirrors a lot of things that happened down in Florida.

But this week we were talking about social media and then also pornography access.

So what's going on here?

What, where, what are those bills do and where they go?

Maayan Schechter> Yeah.

So first, on those two bills, in large part what they do is they're aiming to limit minors' access, exposure to pornography, to social media in particular, the latter without parental permission.

Those bills, while there was some degree of debate on the floor, both passed almost unanimously, with the exception of Democrat Justin Bamberg.

He opposed both.

Both of those pieces of legislation.

But you're right in that, there was a lot of conversation about Florida on the floor.

Florida actually passed Florida's House actually passed nearly identical legislation just last week.

You know, stepping back for a moment.

Copycat bills are very routine, as both of you all know, in the South Carolina State House and across legislatures all the time, especially when it comes to some of these hot topics, socially conservative issues, perhaps we see identical bills being flooded in every single legislature across the state.

South Carolina being no exception.

On top of the fact that Florida's House also passed this.

Obviously, as you mentioned, Governor Ron DeSantis, when he was running for president, would often talk about all these conservative accomplishments that the legislature had passed.

And so there was obviously a large cohort of legislators in South Carolina, big Ron DeSantis fans who would routinely say, well, if Florida's legislature can pass this, we are also a red state.

We are also a red legislature.

Why can't we pass this legislation?

So, you know, we always talk about the fact that no one wants to be Florida, but this has been an interesting time where lawmakers want some of that Florida legislation to spill over into the South Carolina legislature, legislature as well.

So it'll be also interesting, similar to this gun bill, where that goes, I mean, even talking to some lawmakers.

It's...difficult to prohibit entirely minors from having access to things like social media accounts and even pornography.

So it'll be an interesting debate in the Senate if it even gets that far.

Gavin> Because we have until May, and then, of course, after that, everything's dead.

But yeah, this also came on the heels of the gender affirming care bill that went through the House, too, and that was with DeSantis coming through the State House at the same time.

So, a lot going on.

And as the US Senate Judiciary Committee just had all the heads of those social media companies before them for a hearing as well.

Maayan> Right.

And it's worth saying that Representative Brandon Guffey, whose son died by suicide at age 17, after being... Gavin> -sextortion.

Maayan> Sextortion, Yeah.

I was here, was up on the Hill, met with Senator Lindsey Graham, was standing in back of Mark Zuckerberg, sitting behind those other execs when Mark Zuckerberg was asked to stand up and turn around and basically apologize.

So he was there as well.

Gavin> And we saw that bill get passed into law last year when it came with penalties and stricter regulation, oversight and penalties, like what we're saying about sextortion when it comes to minors and social media and being extorted for, you know, images and such.

So that was a big accomplishment.

A lot more bipartisan buy in on that bill than what we saw this past weekend.

A lot of comments on the floor that we can't say on air, even though they were aired on ETV, because we do gavel to gavel coverage.

So if you're watching, you got your fill though.

But, Jeffrey, another big issue grabbing headlines this week in the past couple of days was the governor talking about this feeding program for over the summer for low income children?

There's been a lot of back and forth over this program and its ties to the pandemic.

So kind of give us the lowdown on that and where that stands and what exactly goes into that program.

Jeffrey> So this program started during the pandemic.

It provides about $120 for a family that, you know, to on their... what would be old food stamps on their EBT card.

And it's done during the summertime when schools out because these children aren't getting lunch or breakfast at school.

So the thought process was that we give them money, give their family money, they get a little extra food at a time that it may, food may be particularly scarce.

So to renew this program, the federal government is requiring, they're still paying $120, still paying for the money itself, but they required states to pay half the administrative cost.

And a number of conservative states, including South Carolina, decided they didn't want to pay for that anymore.

And so far, the governor's main explanation for it is it's a pandemic program and we have to stop the pandemic spending at some point.

But for Democrats, this has become a very big issue because ultimately it's not a whole lot of money compared to, I don't know, $500 million for bridges or whatever big ticket item you want to pull out.

And but it does affect the you know, what they say are some of the most vulnerable people in South Carolina and poor children who are hungry.

And what they don't what they're and they don't feel like they've gotten a really good explanation out of the governor on this.

Now, the thing is, though, it's got kind of late in the game.

The federal government required you to make your decision by January 1st.

There's like a February 15th, like administrative requirement where you have to say how you're going to do it.

So it's unknown whether you could go back and rescind this if you wanted to.

There's been a, you know, a couple of motions put in both the House and Senate, you know, resolutions where they're asking the governor to do this.

But there just hasn't been a...

The last time I checked, there weren't any Republican sponsors.

So it's, that's kind of at an impasse at this point.

Gavin> I was going to say, I could never really seem to get a number pinned down on how much that would have cost, too.

But when we're talking about having, I guess what, like $1.6 billion extra in the budget, you're talking about three or, I don't know, $10 million.

I mean, how much is that, when it comes to feeding kids who might need food over the summer to kind of, you know, keep going?

Vindicated?

Jeffrey> It's one of those deals where, you know, I think Democrats see this as it's just an easy win.

I mean, what's the problem with I mean, just asking people just to explain what the problem is with this and they just don't feel like they've gotten any kind of adequate answer.

And plus, again, I think they see it as an ability to show people that it's a place where you can show that you're the differences between you and the Republicans.

There was no talk about - was Shannon Erickson, the Education House Committee chairwoman, talking about working around this somehow?

Jeffrey> I have not heard that yet, but I would not be surprised.

I would not be surprised if at some point Gavin> Katrina Shealy and the Senate or something like that.

Jeffrey> Yes.

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised.

There's enough of I mean, there's enough people in the Republican Party that have that want that can see this.

And lunches and school lunch and school breakfast is becoming a bigger issue, I think, across the state.

I mean, Katrina Shealy has pushed for, you know, free school lunch and breakfast for kids across the spectrum, you know, whether or not they can afford it, whether or not there's a program.

So I wouldn't be surprised if there's some discussion about that.

Gavin> Yeah, they clamped down on school lunch debt, too previously.

So... Maayan speaking of education, this week, we saw State Superintendent of Education Ellen Weaver before House Ways and Means Subcommittee about the budget, talking about what she needs for this year.

What was she asking for in her budget for education, and how close was that to what the governor was proposing in his budget?

Maayan> She asked for a lot of money.

I mean, over 267.

I wrote this down just to be sure.

Excuse me, over $600 million on a wide range of items.

Write this down.

Just to remind myself, $10 million to bring some sort of roving classroom to some of the poorer areas of South Carolina that don't offer certain technical or skill based programs.

She's asking for to for nearly $273 million to increase teacher pay by 3000, except with the caveat that school districts would have to add five professional learning days, which is not exactly widely supported by a lot of teachers.

And then there's the $30 million ask for the education scholarship account.

What we also consider school vouchers.

You know, that program itself hasn't started yet.

And we know that they're still going to be this constitutional question.

The South Carolina Supreme Court is supposed to start hearing arguments over that in early March.

But what was interesting is during her hearing, she was asked a lot about in particular from Neil Collins, Pickens Republican, asked about whether that money was coming out of traditional education funding.

And she kind of pivoted and said, no, but there is some disagreement from a lot of lawmakers over whether that is the case.

Any way, Compare that money is in the governor's executive budget.

But when you compare her budget request, which is pretty, pretty big to what the governor is asking, there are massive differences.

Obviously, the governor has to balance what she's asking with tons of other agencies around South Carolina.

So it is very massively paired down.

So, you know, and I do want to make the point, you mentioned the $1.6 billion, the new money that economists heard.

The Revenue and Fiscal Affairs Office has announced that, as we know, while that may seem like a lot of money to most people, when you start looking at all the requests that come in from agencies and then when you start looking at what lawmakers are already have to prioritize, like rising health care costs, that money evaporates very, very quickly.

So it never hurts to get your budget requests out there and be loud and proud about it as an agency director.

But certainly that money is going to disappear probably very, very fast this year.

And so it'll be interesting to see outside of maybe perhaps the 30 billion for the ESA, what else she's able to get out of that request.

Gavin> Possibly teacher pay raises in line with the governor.

Again, he's mentioned like, you know, the starting pay right now is 42,500.

He wants to get to 45,000 because it's part of his goal to get to 50.

I mean, that's something we can probably see happen, you think, just because it's something everyone agrees with?

Maayan> Yeah.

I mean, I think that's pretty reasonable out of that request.

I mean, I really do think this adding the additional days is really going to be an interesting debate if that does come to it, if that is what winds up being the actual case in the budget.

Because, I mean, I haven't talked to a lot of teachers, but the teachers and the teachers groups I have talked to, have not particularly been super warm to this idea of adding more time onto a teacher's work schedule, because, of course, despite the fact that you may say, this is more time for professional learning, well, you know, school districts could muddy that up a little bit.

So anyway, it'll be interesting to see whether that happens.

But I do think that there is large support, obviously, of getting teacher pay up in this state.

Gavin> If you want to add onto that... Jeffrey> Nah, I'm good.

Gavin> Well, we can maybe talk a little bit about what the governor said in his State of the State address.

Maayan, I want to stick with you about that.

That's his time last week to lay out his plan for lawmakers.

Like we said, he rolled out his executive budget earlier in the month and then he kind of talks more about it in detail for about an hour.

He did last week.

There are some hot moments and spicy moments, some funny moments, and then just a lot of details.

What stood out to you during his speech?

Maayan> Well, you're right.

I mean, the speech in and of itself was a bit of a rehash of not only his executive budget that we've already heard about earlier this year, but also previous state of the states.

I mean, he talked about wanting more executive branch input into the judicial reform debate.

He talked about all the capital investments, historic investments that have come to South Carolina.

He talked about the environment.

So we've heard all of those greatest hits before.

Right.

But probably the spiciest moment.

And I think most of reporters sort of agree because we all tended to have the same headlines on our stories, was what he said about labor unions and wanting to fight labor unions to the gates of hell, which is a, you know, a pretty aggressive statement to make.

You know, it's interesting that statement.

I mean, there hasn't been a lot of news about the long Sherman's debate over on the coast.

There has been some activity, especially last year where we were seeing kind of union workers and trying to get people in retail, you know, whether or even Waffle House or Publix to start speaking up more.

But there really hadn't been a lot of activity.

What I did think was interesting, however and again, we're in an election year, so everything is, you know, politicized a little bit.

Well, everything is politicized.

But was that same day President Joe Biden received the endorsement of the United Auto Workers Union.

And so obviously, as we know, Governor McMaster is supporting former President Donald Trump in his endeavor to get another term.

So I wondered a little bit if that had anything to do with it in the state of the state.

Gavin> Yeah.

Especially with the large automotive industry that we have in South Carolina right now, particularly EVs.

Maayan> Right.

And, you know, he did make a point.

Obviously talking about all the capital investment that came and that includes the EVs, whether it's BMW or Scout Motors.

And so obviously there is a tie in to that.

And I'm sure that has been a conversation between his office and also these auto worker companies.

>> Yeah, the full quote was, we will not allow the Biden administration's pro-union policies to chip away at South Carolina's sovereign interests.

We will fight all the way to the gates of hell and we will win.

Jeffrey, very reminiscent of kicking the unions, kicking the unions with six inch heels on of his predecessor.

Jeffrey> Yes.

Yes.

Gavin> But he doesn't wear heels, you know, So he has to say something else.

Jeffrey>...I mean, it was like Maayan said, it was the one moment in there that kind of that was not expected.

I mean, the thing that when I'm watching the state of the state address was it was just we were all comfortable.

Everybody's comfortable now.

I mean, you know, the you know, Governor McMaster has been here a while.

We're not quite to the point where he's like like legacy right now.

Like, you know, he still got a couple of years left.

So it was just kind of hitting the same point.

that he's hit before, We didn't have the tension in the room that we always would have with Governor Haley or Governor Sanford, where, you know, because he wants to - Governor McMaster wants to get along with everybody.

So and there was the NASCAR reference and there was the pop music reference.

So it was a very comfortable speech.

Gavin> Joni Mitchell Not the Spice girls, Jeffrey> But yeah, yeah, we went back a little bit for this when we went back.

Maayan> But I do want to mention this too, because I think this is something that visually we've all seen.

I mean, you know, since COVID, I think the state of the state has not been as highly attended as it one.

I think of it obviously like really hurt a lot of things.

And so what was interesting on top of the fiery part about the labor unions in the speech itself was that there weren't a whole lot of lawmakers in the room this year as opposed to previous years.

I mean, there even when I saw the cameras going across the room, staff sitting in some of the chairs, a lot of people had guests and even lawmakers were tweeting or posting that they weren't going to be there this year as opposed to previous years.

So that really also kind of stood out.

I mean, again, we are in a very highly politicized moment, so that could be part of it.

But I just think the rooms have gotten a little bit.

I don't know.

We're clear now.

Gavin>...we did see the Governor jump on Fox News recently talking about the whole debate over the border in Florida and all that.

I'm sorry, Texas.

Hard to get them both confused, but, you know, so doing more of that kind of stuff.

We saw his predecessors really get out there more.

But since he's not going for higher office, he's just maintaining at this point, it's been a little different.

But it is a political election year, we should say.

And of course, with Trump and everyone coming through for the Republican primary this month, it's going to be even more ramped up.

Speaking of that, Maayan I want to talk about the Democrats, because this Saturday is the first in the nation Democratic primary.

No, New Hampshire, you did not have the first in the nation Democratic primary that was unsanctioned by the DNC.

We're having the first one because we have the right folks in the right places.

And we did the right thing for Joe Biden, according to Democrats back in 2020.

So fill us in on what's going on with this primary, how we got it, and just what it's been like on the ground.

A lot of folks have been talking about stories of, you know, disaffected Democratic voters.

You've talked to some folks.

What's the vibe like and where are we right now?

Maayan> Right.

So as you mentioned, a year ago, the Democratic National Committee voted to make South Carolina first.

And the DNC, obviously led by South Carolina's very own Jaime Harrison.

The move was backed by President Joe Biden in part because of the state's diverse electorate who votes in the Democratic Party primary.

Roughly two thirds of the Democratic Party voting bloc here are African Americans.

And obviously that electorate, as you know, coming from Iowa and also coming from New Hampshire is not exactly the same in those two early voting states.

And so we tend to be a better indicator of where Black... Black voters will land.

And that's helpful.

Obviously, in Super Tuesday states that are typically a little bit more diverse.

But yeah, so we've seen a heavy, heavy presence in over the past month or so, past few weeks from President Biden himself, Vice President Kamala Harris, her husband, First Lady Joe Biden.

We've had governors here, we've had former governors here.

Everybody in the Democratic Party has come to South Carolina, including obviously, we have our very own, prominent Democrat, Jim Clyburn, stumping for President Biden.

There's...two pieces of that.

One, they want to energize Black voters.

Right.

They want to show that this, the state, the nation, pundits, whomever, that these narratives about black voter concerns aren't all up to snuff that really people are motivated energized here to back President Biden.

The other part is they also want to prove to all these other states, probably particularly New Hampshire Democrats, that we deserve to be for South Carolina deserves to be the first state because look back four years ago, Joe Biden lost Iowa, Joe Biden lost New Hampshire.

He got to South Carolina.

He got Jim Clyburn's endorsement and bam, it propelled him through the Super Tuesday states into the nomination, into the presidency.

And so certainly I think that there's going to be an even greater push that after this Saturday, "Look, see, this is what we can do", and that's why we deserve to continue going first.

Gavin> Yeah, and that'll be the big thing looking forward to 2028 because obviously, you know, we can say if we declare Joe Biden the winner of the South Carolina primary at 7:01 after polls close, because, I mean, yes, there's, you know, Congressman Dean Phillips on there.

Mary Williamson, I guess, is still in the race in some degree, spiritually, physically, I don't know.

But like so I think it's obviously safe to assume what's going to happen there and the rest of the, you know, the process for the Democrats at least.

So it is a bit of a thank you to Joe Biden.

But then the bigger question like we're looking at is 2028, like, will we continue to be first in the nation?

That's going to be for the DNC to decide going forward.

But, Jeffrey, let's switch to the Republicans because that is still a competitive primary regardless of what we saw with the Democrats on the ballot.

So what's going on with Nikki Haley in this race?

Still, a lot of people have been asking, why is she still in this race?

I've been feeling that question too you know, they're also looking at possibly Democrats jumping in to go vote for Nikki Haley.

You've covered her under her tenure.

You know what Democrats, how they felt towards her during those years.

Do you foresee anything like that happening when it comes to these open primaries in South Carolina?

Jeffrey> I think, you know, people that follow politics it's like a dream of theirs, you know, you're going to disrupt it in this.

It's very rare.

It doesn't happen in very big numbers.

It's probably not going to happen in South Carolina for one of the reasons you just said.

I mean, Democrats, you know, yes, South Carolina's grown, but a lot of Democrats remember Nikki Haley's administration.

And, you know, she wasn't very friendly to Democrats.

I mean...there were, there's you know, she's against gay marriage, against Medicaid expansion.

I mean, you know, you know, I mean, we talk a lot about how she took on Republicans in the legislature and things like that.

But I mean, she also took on Democrats and she certainly wasn't would make them you know, she certainly would use them as an example if she needed to make a point or something.

So, I mean, it is an open primary.

And I think there is a there is I mean, there's not quite the big swath of independents that there is in New Hampshire that you can get.

But there are people that you can probably that that are independent enough that you and they're probably going to end up voting in the Republican primary simply because, as Maayan said, the Democratic contest is not a real contest at all.

It's, it's there's not you know, so you actually have a choice that you can make that seems, you know, a little more legitimate and a little more likely that you could choose a winner in the Republican primary.

That being said though, it's going to be an interesting time in South Carolina.

I mean, we've got a month.

You know, that's that to me is very interesting because typically South Carolina is a sprint.

I mean, you know, they come from New Hampshire and it's like, boom, and you're done.

So it's - this is like a slow boil.

It's percolating slowly.

I'm interested in I've appreciated this blast from the past.

Right.

We're going to have a couple of weeks of looking back at the 2010s and from two very different lenses.

One lens is going to say it was a great day in South Carolina on the Haley side of things.

The other lens, are going to see a much different perspective on what happened during those years.

Now, there's a couple of factors that you include in that.

I mean, part of the thing is South Carolina continues to boom.

I mean, certainly you can't argue that South Carolina ended up in a better place economically during Haley's, you know, six years.

You can't you know, that's there.

You know, Haley was her approval rating was in the high 50s when she went to the Trump administration and left office.

Her president, her, you know, her successor has done a very good job, too.

I mean, Henry McMaster's approval rating is in the low 60s mid-60s.

And I mean, so that plays a part in this, too.

I mean, it's not like it's one of those deals where, do you miss Haley?

Well, everything's still going really well.

So that's she's got to figure out a way that she can, you know, try to bring people back to those 2010s and get them nostalgic and get them thinking what a great job she did while also appealing to these 700, 800,000 people that have never voted for her before.

I mean, she was last on the ballot in 14.

That's ten years ago, 2014.

We've got we've had almost a million people move into the state by since probably five, six, 700,000.

Gavin> Which can benefit her since they haven't really governed that way.

But yeah, the same time it's still difficult.

Jeffrey> Those folks, most of those folks have had... what?

This will be their third... Well, count primaries, their third fourth or fifth opportunity to vote for Trump if you count the general and the primary and everything.

So it's going to be a very interesting few weeks here Gavin> 30 seconds Maayan.

Does she have a shot at actually winning the primary based on what you've been seeing with polling and other things?

Maayan> I'll say this quickly.

Obviously, as we know, we should never discount Nikki Haley.

She's overcome political expectations many, many times.

The numbers, however, make it a little bit obvious.

And you were talking about the rise in population.

Just out today, there was a new Monmouth poll that showed Trump with 58% of GOP voter support to Haley's 32%.

And those are tough numbers to overcome in your home state, especially when you talk about these growing areas like Horry County that have become more red and very, very pro-Trump.

So.

Gavin> It's going to be a fun month, but you guys will be with her, with us for it.

So we're looking forward to that.

That's South Public Radio's Maayan Schechter, and Jeffrey Collins with the Associated Press.

Thank you, guys.

Jeffrey> Thank you, Gavin.

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