Holly Jackson> South Carolina attorney Sean Keefer is an author and a musician.

♪ His book, The Code, is a continuation of his Noah Parks series.

♪ Sean talks about how his legal career inspired him to write books.

♪ I'm Holly Jackson.

Join us as we bring you powerful stories from both new and established southern authors as we sit by the river.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ <narrator> Major funding for by the river is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina for more than 40 years.

The ETV Endowment of South Carolina has been a partner of South Carolina ETV, and South Carolina Public Radio.

>> Hi, I'm your host Holly Jackson for By the River.

Thanks so much for joining us.

You know, By The River is a show that goes beyond the book.

It gives you a better understanding of the journey that led the author to their book.

And today we have another great author on board.

We have Sean Keefer and thanks so much for joining us.

Today, we're talking especially about The Code, so let's get right into it because I've got a lot to talk about between writing songs and the dog.

We have to talk about the dog.

All right.

So welcome aboard and tell me a little bit about your book, The Code .

Sean> So, The Code is the third book in what I call the Noah Parks Mystery Series.

First one was published, gosh, more than a decade ago, and this one came out, most recent one that came out and it's a prequel to the first book, but it follows, the books are a serial that serialization and it follows the main character, his dog and another police detective in Charleston.

All of them were murder mysteries and with The Code I tried to delve in and have not only a murder mystery, but some historical underpinning that kind of tied everything together.

Holly> Okay.

Dogs seem to play quite a role in your life, in your writing and in your everyday life.

Let's, let's go ahead and, and get right there since I know it's a big part of you.

Sean> So I don't personify the dogs in the book, but the dogs are always critical to the book and to play a component of it.

I have always had animals growing up, but I did not have my first dog until after I was married.

It's the guy that's joining us back there on the, on the set?

Holly> Yes.

Sean> That is Leo the Australian Shepherd.

Holly> Okay.

Sean> And he is kind of memorialized in the books, but I named him after my first cat that I had Austin, Holly> Okay.

Sean> -is his name.

And he and the main character are kind of a package deal, if you will.

When I was researching The Code in a historical fashion, I found some of the storyline involves some canine aspects.

So I was able to plainly put kind of co-opt some historical underpinnings and use Austin the canine in the book to kind of reinvigorate that and make it part of the story.

Holly> Okay.

So Leo is your dog now, is that correct?

Sean> Well, Leo.

Leo passed away back in 2008.

Holly> Oh, okay.

Sean> He has started a legacy, if you will, of canines.

And I have four now, the most recent is a puppy that joined the pack back in December.

Holly> Okay.

Sean> Six months almost to the day we've had her.

Holly> Wow.

Very cool.

All right, so one more dog question because I felt this is important to you.

Sean> I, I can go on about dogs... Holly> Yeah.

This is a book show, not a dog show.

Sean> Understood.

Holly> So, I'll have to stay on track, but I do have questions about it.

So are the dogs with you as you write?

Sean> So the dogs, I work out of my home.

Everything I do is out of the home and it's a rotational pattern with the dogs and there's almost always one dog with me when I'm writing.

It's usually emotional support.

Usually they're out like on light, sleeping, but generally around all the time when I'm writing.

Holly> Tell me a little bit about that.

I'm always interested to see the kind of what every writer's like, you know, you kind of think about blindness in the blanket, you know.

Sean> Sure.

Holly> It just helps some and everybody seems to have their thing.

Yours being the dog.

What is it that..?

Sean> So I, Holly>...that helps you?

Sean> I, I need, I need focus is what I need and I'm fortunate I think that I can gain that focus anywhere.

I like to get lost in white noise, whether it be a snoring canine, whether it be sitting in the hotel lobby and just the white noise of everybody's day-to-day lives as they're passing through.

If I have that in a block of time, that'll kind of help me zone in and get into the focus that I need to write.

Holly> Okay.

Very well said.

Alright.

Tell me about your career and how it inspired this writing.

Sean> So, I'm an attorney by trade and I always pause to make sure that folks don't run me off when I say that Holly> Everybody's still in the room, Sean> Which is, which is always a wonderful thing.

Something about a segment of attorneys when they're in law school.

They...get some kind of bug, if you will, that makes them think they need to write a book.

And that hit me.

There is no, you know, as an elective class, Writing for Lawyers, Write your First Novel, Holly> But this is a common thread between.

Sean> This is a common thread, the number of lawyers, and then if you look at the, you know, the John Grisham's, the John Harts, the folks like that, that went from the lawyering to the writing.

Holly> Why do you think that is?

Sean> My work that I do now?

The number of times that I have drawn away from and said I write fiction and I could not have made that up, is just shocking the number of times that it has, that has happened.

And when I wrote my first book, I had a, what if that popped into my head?

And it was built around the fact that I was shocked by the number of folks that would just walk into an office and think they could just see an attorney immediately.

I mean, much the same as going into a fast food restaurant.

I need a hamburger and fries.

Holly> Right.

Sean> And that was a common occurrence.

And so I said to myself, what if someone came in and threw a will on the attorney's desk and said, why is your name in that will?

And then the attorney looked at the will, didn't know the decedent, didn't know the person that was standing in their office had no idea why their name was in the will to handle all of the legal work.

And then there was a passage in the will that said, when the legal work is done, this attorney is going to get the contents of the safe deposit box that no one ever knew existed.

That popped into my head one day and followed me around, and then it ended up becoming the first book.

Holly> Wow.

So, I mean, do you remember the moment that this idea popped in?

Sean> I, I remember Holly> Was it like you wake up, you're out walking on the beach?

Sean> Well, I remember one day being on a plane with my wife flying back from who knows where, and I said, I have a laptop.

I'm going to see what happens with this idea.

So I wrote the first chapter and I turned the computer over and gave it to her.

And I said, what do you think?

And she read it and she went... to it to, what is it?

Holly> That's the book.

Sean> And I said, what do you mean, what is it?

she said, "What is it?"

She was like eight or nine pages.

And I said, what do you think?

And she said, I don't know.

What are you going to do with it?

I'm like, all right, I got it.

And so the book then generated from that.

She has, since she enjoys the book, she likes where it started.

She is one of my biggest fans.

She is one of my biggest cheerleaders.

Holly> Critics?

Sean> Well, it's funny when she read the, when the book was finished the first time, and I asked her to read it.

She didn't read it, she didn't read it, she didn't read it.

And finally she read it and she was like, "Oh heavens."

I'm like, "What do you mean?

Oh heavens?"

She's like, "Sean, I enjoyed it.

I really did."

I was worried I was going to read it and I was going to go, "Oh.

And he spent..." Holly> How do I Sean> "...so much time."

Holly> Right.

Sean> But she is, when I say, she's been a cheerleader.

She's a phenomenal editor.

She's an attorney as well.

And she is the best writer that I know.

And her ability to eviscerate my writing has made it so much better.

So Holly> Now has she been bit by the bug yet of wanting to write a book?

Sean> She is working on her first book now.

Holly> Okay.

Sean> She's working on her first book now, Holly> So it's a real deal.

Sean> Yeah.

Holly> That's really cool.

All right, now let's talk music.

So how, how does that play into everything?

I mean, you became an attorney, the desire to write a book came and then music, or was mu-, where does music fall in the timeline?

Sean> I wanted to be a rock star when I was growing up.

Holly> All right.

Sean> I wanted to be a heavy metal guitar player.

Holly> Oh my gosh.

Holly> The, the surprises keep coming school.

Sean> And we certainly, certainly realized that wasn't happening.

But music has always been something that has...

I don't know, it's a, when I was growing up, my mom sang in the choir, she played piano.

So the, the house was just always full of, you know, music getting ready, hymns being sung.

My father was a huge country music fan.

And that just kind of ingrained.

And then as I started to go up and kind of discover music on my own, I was like, what is this about?

I, I really want to learn to make this.

Now if you ask my mom who kept me chained to a piano for four years, much against my will.

Holly> I'm kind of doing that to one of my kids right now.

Sean> To...when I look back now, I really am curious as to how DSS didn't get involved in that situation.

But now I look back and I look at her and I go, "Mom, I really wish you had made me "stay with the piano."

"Oh!"

And she just laughs.

Holly> Right.

Sean> But I was bit by the bug.

I started playing guitar in college and anyone that knows me was rather flabbergasted that the first thing that I released was not a, a, a CD or an album depending on when the timeline would've run.

Holly> Yeah.

Sean> But it, it was the book and I had released three books prior to releasing any music.

But it's just, it's just a passion of mine to be able to either write the books or write the music while they're two entirely different, two entirely different books.

Holly> Well, that's what...what I wanted to get at.

So, tell me the style change.

How do you make that switch in your head of writing a song versus writing a book?

Sean> So my, my father said something to me one time.

He was like, I don't know how you do it.

I don't know how you keep a story straight and tie it together.

And I'm like, I got 85,000 words.

I can do that all day long.

The last song I wrote has got 98 words and I have 98 words to tell a story.

And it is two completely different, I know just paths as far as it goes.

I can really, you know, and it's interesting, it's not even a time thing.

Sometimes the songs that are, 98 words take a longer to write than a novel does.

And then some folks will say, well, you know, you have to write the music with it as well too.

And I don't want to say the music writes itself, but that is almost a secondary component to really eking those words out, if you will.

Okay.

And I have a very hard time, if I'm songwriting, the books kind of get pushed to the side.

Holly> Yeah.

Sean> And if I'm focusing on the books, the songs kind of get both pushed to the side.

Holly> But the approach, the sit down part, all that's the same, just with the mindset of, I have to tell this story quicker.

Well, Sean> I have a little bit different approach.

I can write a book anytime.

But someone said, Sean, we're going to take a break.

You got two hours, I could go sit down and write.

I could just find my spot and go do it.

I'm a morning musician, I have to get up.

It has to be the first thing Holly> That's fascinating Sean> and I think a lot of it is, is a lot of times when I wake up in the morning, I don't know if it's the jumble of the thoughts that kind of align, that kind of helps through with that.

But it's, it's just, for me, it's two entirely different approaches.

And I've yet to be able to fill, find the gap to put 'em together, if you will.

Holly> Okay.

What's next?

Sean> Started working on the fourth book.

I had someone read it and they asked me a question about it and I went, I, I, I have no idea.

Didn't, didn't even know that was in there.

Holly> You know, I love hearing these stories when people are like at book signings and a reader just says something and the author's like like, oh, that's it.

You know, that's the line or that's the book title or whatever.

Sean> I...was actually down with my friend that took the cover of the, the photo for the cover of The Code And we were down talking to his house one day and he and I both grew up in a little town in Horry County called Loris, L-O-R-I-S.

I always spell it just 'cause unless you're from there, there's a diminished chance that you've heard of it.

And he said, I got this book you have to read.

And the book is called Carolina Clay.

And it is a story of how someone found out that his family, hundreds of years ago, in mid 1800s, had owned an African American who was one of the most amazing potters.

And the owners had taught him how to read and write.

So he would make the pottery and would write poems on them.

Oh.

And I immediately became fascinated.

Right.

I've been to Edgefield, South Carolina, who knew that was the pottery capital of the world.

Holly> Is it?

I had no idea, Sean> I had idea at that time.

And that started planting a few seeds for some other research that I had been doing to kind of tie the two together.

And I had these two things.

And when the reader mentioned that to me about one aspect, that was literally the thread that connected it.

So I started plotting out where it's going to go.

And we hope sometime in the next, I don't know, six weeks to actually sit down and start writing.

I'm getting ready, ready for a big fun, a musical fundraiser that I'm doing.

So I'm all focused on that now.

Holly> Yeah.

Sean> And then to be able to move through to start writing the next book into the next four to six weeks would be wonderful.

Holly> I'm interested in the whole series aspect.

I, I feel like I've...been talking to more authors who are sticking to that series format.

So do you find that it, it helps you?

Or do you, I mean, at what point does it end?

Sean> So it's interesting, The Code because of that exact question.

The Code is a prequel to the first book.

Holly> Okay.

Sean> A romantic relationship developed through the first two books.

I don't read romance novels, I don't watch romantic movies.

And I think the last thing that anybody wants to see me do is further develop a romantic relationship in a book.

So I was somewhat worried that I had written myself into the proverbial corner, then went I writing a prequel- Holly> -You kind of shocked yourself.

Sean> I did.

But I had started writing the first book as probably a, maybe a 10-year-old attorney.

And I realized I had a whole decade that I could explore the back story.

Where was the doll?

Where did he first come from?

How did the two characters meet?

How did the law practice get, get built up?

And I could avoid that romantic interest, if you will.

Holly> Yeah.

Sean> And so at some point I think there has to be a conclusion to it.

I just think there's probably, at least for me, one more prequel in there before I build through and then make a decision where I go beyond that.

Because I've had a few ideas that I'd like to explore that I don't think fit in what I call the Noah Parks universe.

But I think there may be one or two more books left there.

Holly> Okay.

So you said you don't read romance.

What do you read?

And I'm also wondering where the time is that you even do this.

It seems like you authors have more hours in your day than the rest of us because you've got the music, the dogs, the writing, Sean> The, the funny thing is, is I and I, every time I say this, folks roll their eyes.

I, I watch so much TV and I can go toe to toe with everyone about the latest streaming, the series, this.

And I don't think I do anything but watch TV sometimes I don't sleep a lot, but I, when I am up doing stuff, I'm trying to continue to keep things moving forward.

I do like to read a lot.

I like to keep a number of books going.

Actually, one of the writers that I am reading slash listening to now is a Charleston Mount Pleasant writer, Brad Taylor.

I've, I've discovered his stuff in part through the show out of Beaufort that he did an interview on one time.

Holly> Yes.

Yes.

Sean> And I have just really, really been enjoying his books.

A couple folks that I mentioned, John Hart, Ron Rash, two of my favorite writers as far as it goes.

And I always try to have one nonfiction book going to any one time just to, I don't know, to a book in hand, a kindle, an audio book for when I'm not in front of the TV as far as it goes, if I'm not walking the dog.

And I've discovered that on all of the streaming platforms, you can listen to a book on 1.5 speed.

And I found that to be very, very efficient for doing that.

Holly> Right.

Yeah.

I like that.

I, I, I, I do most of my reading in the car.

Yeah.

Sean> Exactly.

Holly>And then I realized, wait, I was supposed to make an exit, like, you know, eight miles ago.

Sean> Yes.

That happened yesterday when I was driving around Beaufort as it went.

Holly>Oh, really?

Sean>I had to turn around and come back.

Holly> Yeah.

Okay.

So your writing style, we've, we've talked about that somewhat, but how, if you had to sum it up, for those who haven't read your books, how would you describe your style?

Sean> So people, when they read my books that know me say that my style is simply just me talking to them as it goes.

When I first sat down and started writing, the trust, the first book I just started writing and I didn't give any care concern to anything other than getting the story out.

And then when I first started taking that book beyond the, the close family and friends edited and expanding from there, folks asked me, why are you writing in first person?

And the first person that asked me that went, I looked at them and I didn't realize I did that.

And it was just the way that I think told the story when I was growing up.

So many folks in the small town that I grew up were storytellers and I just got to listen to them, were fascinated.

And I think that just kind of set the foundation for me then when it came time for me to tell the stories that I had, I was doing it just like I had done before.

Holly> Yeah.

Sean> Emulating what I had, so it comes out as a first person style that the folks that know me sounds like it's me just sitting down and having a conversation with them.

Holly> What I've noticed in a few of your answers is that you find out things about yourself and you're like, oh, I didn't even know I was doing that.

Or you're surprising yourself, which I think is really cool.

Sean> I was, I was at a concert years ago.

I went to see The Police and I was so excited about them.

It was one of their first reunion tours and my wife was with me and she knew I had been really looking forward to the concert, and I had a very disheartened look on my face and she said, what's wrong?

And I said, well, I've heard 10 guitar riffs in the past 20 minutes that I thought I had just made up, but apparently I subconsciously copied them.

Holly> Oh no.

Sean> So I, Holly> I thought that was fine.

Sean> I did.

So as I work through stuff, I do unlearn a lot about myself and that's been one of the most fascinating things about the writing process.

It's just what I can learn about myself.

Holly> And you talked about your wife being your, your reader, your encourager, and sometimes your critic.

But do you have any other, like is there a small circle of people you trust that you get the first reads?

Sean> The, the editor slash (/) publisher of my book, he's was tremendously helpful.

I met a, through the first book through a...friend who has since passed away, a editor out of New York.

And I've got, so I've got five or six folks that are really my core people.

And we have a very good relationship because I, I've had enough judges yell at me through the years practicing law.

Holly> Yeah.

That you can take the heat.

>> I, I can take the heat, I can take the criticism as far as it goes.

But we have such a relationship to where they respect if I'm going to give them pushback on something.

So it's very, it's a very symbiotic relationship, for lack of a better way to put it.

Holly> Do you often have... what do you think is like maybe the percentage, do you make the suggested changes from those readers?

Sean> I, I really, I would say probably 80% of what they put through.

And they're, they're, they're rarely changing the story.

They're rarely, you know, changing dialogue.

There's a lot of continuity stuff that they do.

They've given me some character development that maybe a character needed to be pumped up a little bit or was maybe too overbearing.

And I've worked through with that.

So I try to really pay attention as far as it goes.

I think it'd be a little bit too much of a dose of hubris if I was just know I I've got it a hundred percent.

Holly> Right.

Sean> Because I, I don't, I don't have it figured out yet.

I try to learn and continue to learn as I work through doing it.

Holly>...we've gotten this far.

I'm not sure.

that we ment-, if we mentioned that you live in Charleston now, right?

Sean> I do live in Charleston.

Holly> Okay.

Such a, such a beautiful area.

Much like Beaufort in that all around you are inspirations writing.

Do you feel that you're getting inspiration on your storytelling through your surroundings?

Sean> I think it's impossible to be in Charleston and not have that happen.

One of my favorite books is called The Buildings of Charleston.

If I'm writing and I am in an area of Charleston, I want to be true to that.

And I just think the history of any of the buildings, the city, they've got a story to tell.

So I want to do my best to kind of incorporate it through and through into the books.

And...I don't know, it's not that I want to be the tourism bureau for Charleston, but I've, I've had people, I love Charleston.

I remember, I've seen this in your book.

It was really neat.

It drew me back.

And that's just one of the, the biggest points of compliment because the folks, Holly> I was about to say.

That has to be such a form of flattery when someone comes to visit a place based on the story they read.

Sean> I really try to bring a sense of place to the story because I think that the backdrop for the story is just as important as the story that's going on.

And I think I can work to tie them together.

That's just going to make the book more enjoyable.

Holly> I like it.

All right.

Well that wraps up our time.

It's, it's flown by.

I'm proud of us for not talking about dogs the whole time.

'cause that can be hard not to.

Sean> It can be a challenge.

Yeah, I am, like I say, more than happy to anytime.

But thank you so much for having me.

I've really enjoyed it.

Holly> Absolutely.

It's been a pleasure.

Thanks so much for coming and thank you everybody for joining us here on By The River.

We always love having you tag along with us and read along with us.

We hope to see you next time right here By The River.

Sean> Gabriel got into his car without looking back, swung around on the street and headed towards Foley Road.

He torn towards highway 17.

The late night calm had returned to our neighborhood.

The only lights aside from my kitchen light with the street lights.

Our cue to go back inside.

Austin, walked back towards the bedroom, turned and sat.

Sorry to have those guys wake you up.

He held my gaze for a moment, yawned, stood, shook and torn.

Turned to the bedroom.

The quiet swish revealed that he had returned to the bed.

Watching from the doorway, it was easy to see.

He was instantly asleep.

That dog had it made.

My phone rang.

Gabriel.

Even when you'd just seen him, if he had a thought, he wouldn't hesitate to call no matter the time of day.

And what did you forget to tell me this time?

Mr.

Parks glad to see the police left without incident.

It must be nice to all, but have a city detective on call.

I do have to admit it would've been interesting to see how things would've played out had he not shown up.

It wasn't Gabriel.

No idea who it was In the dark of my house, I moved to the front door.

I looked out the window to the side of the door.

No cars on the street, the lights in the home, still dark.

All right, you're watching.

It's only a little bit weird.

You know if you get them back quickly, they can't be far.

You won't do that now, will you?

Besides you don't want an emotional woman to make another call.

She may have more to say about the waterfront.

Let's say it's up to you to talk me out of calling them back.

Here's a reason for you.

Try to be a little less predictable.

Lawyering won't work.

You'll no information beyond that which I choose you to have.

Then why don't you tell me what you want?

Go on your way.

It's late.

I'd like to get back to bed.

I'd be happy to do just that.

First, this call will stay between us, no exceptions.

You will leave the police and specifically Emmett Gabriel out of it.

Things will take a different path where he or any other authorities to be notified.

Such would only be viewed as an affront against dignity.

So please be prudent and bear that in mind.

Don't tell Gabriel.

Okay.

Not sure what the rest of that means, but okay, you want me to keep to myself the fact that you a coward, hiding behind threats called in the middle of the night.

Gotcha.

Mr.

Parks, please understand what I'm doing is an accommodation and that no matter how entertaining you believe this I warrant.

It is quite serious.

I will also caution you against using that word.

It will not be well received a second time.

And rest assured, there will be no posting as a coward.

Such will be bypassed.

Listen, this call goes a lot easier if you ditch your cryptic threats.

What is it you want to tell me?

Moving through the house from the window, carefully peering out.

I saw nothing, no lights, no unexplained shadows, no empty cars, nothing.

If this guy was watching me, he was good at staying out of sight.

Very well, most importantly, it would be prudent to lose interest in any shipping endeavors or any other matters concerning any recent deaths.

As you might have noted, even the most casual of contact with you, should we choose can be fatal.

You may not understand certain realities.

You may even consider this all a game.

But rest assured it is very serious.

And this call is your lone courtesy.

You're a bright and charming man of some potential.

But do everyone a favor and simply forget your research project.

To do otherwise will be taken as a front and shall result in the appropriate response up to and including challenge.

Others will be most appreciative.

Others, what did he mean?

It could only be Allison.

Challenge.

No idea.

I won't take your bait and get emotional.

But I'll say if you have Allison, the last thing I'll do is, back off.

If anything, you're just encouraging me.

Mr.

Parks, again, with the theatrics and the attempts at lawyering.

Read into my words what you may but understand you have no leverage in this matter with no corridor.

I will attend to proving that to you.

Your safety is completely dependent upon us.

No one around you is safe beyond what we decide.

You only need to do two things.

Tell no one of our call and end your project.

Concerning the recent deaths.

You have a good night.

The line went dead.

That was creepy.

It was also proof positive.

I wasn't too far from tying together a connection.

Looking out the front door again, there was nothing but an empty street that only meant an answer was close, if not already there for someone to threaten me.

Only one choice.

♪ ♪ <narrator> Major funding for By The River is provided by the ETV Endowment of South Carolina for more than 40 years.

The ETV Endowment of South Carolina has been a partner of South Carolina ETV and South Carolina Public Radio.

♪