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[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi everyone, Steve Adubato.

We continue our series on New Jersey's next governor.

Yes, there's a election in 2025, November, 2025.

We kick off with Sean Spiller, who's a Democratic candidate for governor in the great state of New Jersey, and the president of the New Jersey Education Association, full disclosure, NJEA, a big supporter and underwriter of Public Broadcasting and the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Now that's all outta the way, Sean, how you doing?

- Doing well.

It's great to see you, thanks for having me.

- Good to see you.

And let's do this.

We've asked every candidate for governor this.

You got a minute or less.

Your background.

We'll talk policy and issues in a minute.

Your background, go.

- I think it's actually one of the most important things we're talking about, because for me, one of the reasons I'm running is because of my lived experience.

I think it's similar to most New Jerseyans.

It's about being an immigrant myself, my parents choosing this country, and certainly New Jersey for its great schools.

It's also about a dad who had to be away from months at a time, sending money home.

It's about understanding that our family was working hard in a state that's hard to afford, and that's New Jersey for so many folks.

So for me, this is personal.

It's about making sure that we maintain the wonderful things that are so special to New Jersey, but just making it a little bit easier for everyone out there who loves this place, loves taking advantage of everything we have to offer, but needs to be, you know, working 2, 3, 4 jobs, pinching pennies to make it work for them.

That's what this is about.

And that's why I'm running for governor.

- And a science teacher by background.

- Yeah, I'm a high school science teacher and certainly really proud of the work there and certainly get the inspiration from our students all the time.

But it's also, I think a lot of the skills that I know will be important in this role as well.

- Let's do issues.

All right, look, new president, new Congress.

President says, let's do away with the federal Department of Education.

A, gonna happen, realistic.

B, what if it were to happen?

What would that mean, Sean?

- Yeah, I mean, hard to say when you're talking about somebody like President-elect Trump as to what he's gonna do.

- He's President-elect as we do this.

Once it's repeated, he will be the president.

Go ahead, Sean.

- Yeah, you know, as we look at this, I think we're in a space where he says a lot of things.

I think he doesn't intend to follow through with a lot of them.

I saw some of his most recent proposals still including that.

And I think there's a couple ways, either formally to get rid of the department or also to just starve it of resources and funds.

I think both are problematic.

And certainly as an educator, but also as a parent of two young kids and understanding how important school is, it is troubling to see anyone who would say such a thing, but certainly it's gonna be one of the issues that we have to focus on here in New Jersey.

I think, quite frankly, I'm uniquely positioned in that space to help support our students each and every day.

And to push back against what Trump is likely to do, including underfunding, or quite frankly, eliminating the federal funding for our schools.

- Affordability, a top issue, not just in New Jersey, but the nation.

What, if elected governor, would you do to make New Jersey "more affordable," please?

- Yeah, well, I think it's probably more laser focused with the Trump president, right?

Because he's gonna be looking to give those corporate tax giveaways.

He is gonna be looking to give tax breaks to the ultra wealthy, and we've gotta make sure that we are pushing back in a way that offsets that.

And specifically, make sure that there's tax breaks for middle class folks, for working folks, for folks that are struggling to get by, making sure we're investing in our programs that oftentimes get cut.

And, you know, certainly whether that's early education and childcare, whether that's tax credits, there's a lot of spaces where people have programs that they rely on and certainly supports that we offer here in state.

And I think when the ultra wealthy and the corporate interests are getting those tax breaks, we're gonna have to look at ways we say, "Hey, you're gonna have to pay your fair share to support the very programs that help enrich New Jersey in terms of its diversity and certainly our strength and support every single resident in this state."

So there's gonna be a lot of work to do there for sure.

But I think we're gonna be in a place where we have to look closely at the programs that are successful for our middle working class folks and those who need the supports the most and push back against whatever may come from Trump in his actions.

- Sean, we've asked every candidate for governor this question, asking you as well.

The migrant crisis, is clear, it's real.

People's interpretation of it may be different.

People's approaches to dealing with it may be different.

The president talks about, President Trump talks about mass deportation day one.

If governor of New Jersey, what would you do to deal with the migrant crisis, which is largely federal and national but the state plays a role as well.

Sean?

- Yeah, look, the state does play a role, but I'll say this.

It starts out by, you know, we've gotta be humane about this conversation, right?

And I say that because I am an immigrant, right?

And when we had these conversations- - Where's your family from Sean?

- I was born in Jamaica, my mom's from Jamaica, my dad's from New Zealand, and lived all over the world and chose to come to this country and chose to live in New Jersey.

My mom was a math teacher in Jamaica.

So, you know, great schools were a must, hence New Jersey.

But I say I start with that because I think that as we have the conversation and we talk about yes, the challenges that we have when we have, you know, any number of individuals who need supports and we wanna make sure they're successful.

And certainly if you've got immigration as an issue and a conversation that the federal government has not been able to handle, it does become a state issue.

We don't wanna leave any student out, we don't wanna leave any, any family struggling, understandably.

But we can talk about it in a humane way, right?

What are the supports that we can do here in state to make sure that people aren't pushed out of systems where they then have to resort to other methods to get by.

But also when we're looking at what Donald Trump says he's gonna do, we also have to be mindful that things like separating kids from their parents or their mothers.

That's just not who we are, right?

So we've gotta play a role in state.

Yes, it's gonna kind of depend on what the Trump administration actually does do.

We've gotta look at the supports and how we fund them and where they go.

But we've gotta do that in a way that I think is much more centered on, these are people we're talking about here than the President-elect does.

- Yeah, Sean, I wanna follow up on this.

I don't wanna do political analysis about the election, but it's important to try to understand this because it has policy implications as well.

The party that you've been a part of for a long time, you're running for the Democratic nomination for governor in June of 2025.

What the heck did the Democrats get so wrong and how are they so far away from where most Americans are, which allowed for Donald Trump and a Republican Congress, Sean?

- Oh, well, there's a lot in that question and there's probably a ton of pundits- - Yeah, but they got a lot wrong, didn't they?

- They're working in, yeah, yeah.

I mean, yes, you know, but to identify exactly what it is, is certainly hard.

And I think we need to reflect, you know- - How'd they lose touch?

Lemme try, sorry for interrupting you, Sean.

How do you think so many, so many Americans perceive that the Democratic party has lost touch with them?

You wouldn't argue with that, would you?

- Yeah, well, look, I would say this.

One of the things I've learned is, and I say this as an educator, is we need to take a moment to listen and to kind of talk to people and to find out exactly why.

I don't wanna sit here today and say, "Here's the exact reason why everybody felt this way or that way."

I wanna have those conversations, right?

I wanna talk to folks here in New Jersey and say, "You know, what are the pieces that did resonate with you," right?

"Why is it that you feel this way or that way?"

I'm sure there's a lot of reasons that kind of all came together around this.

But I know that we're unique here in New Jersey, just like any other state would be.

And people are unique.

And certainly you wanna talk to them and say, "You know, what are the pieces?"

Because I do fundamentally think, though, that at the core, certainly as running as a Democrat, I think that the values that we're trying to bring forward in terms of supporting families, making sure that when you need that helping hand, it's there, getting outta your way when you're trying to get something done.

But government seems to be that bureaucracy, that red tape that we talk about.

Maybe we don't do a good enough job there, but there's a a lot that we can talk about and see why is it that maybe you're feeling a certain way.

But I'm telling you that what I hope to bring forward is really a New Jersey that works for you, right?

A New Jersey that is caring, compassionate, but a New Jersey that understands that we want you to succeed, we're gonna help you do it.

We're gonna get outta your way when you don't need us in the way.

And I hope that at the core, we share the same values around a diverse state, diversity being our strength, supportive of our neighbors, our friends, our family members, that hope is who we are as a state and as a country and certainly remind people of that as well.

- You know, affordability, Sean, as you well know, is tied to a large extent on our property tax.

Our property tax, to a large extent, contingent upon the funding of public schools.

You understand public schools better than most.

You also understand the school funding formula in the state.

States sends money to local school districts.

Many have argued, Democrat, Republican, doesn't matter, that the school funding formula is off, that certain districts are getting too much, others not getting enough, they don't understand why one or the other thing happens.

Here's the question.

If governor, what would you seek to change about the way the state funds our public schools and that school funding formula?

- Yeah, first and foremost, and I've been one of the ones to testify that we need to take a look at that school funding formula and make changes, which was always the intention, I will note.

And I think one of the big pieces that you see is with the funding formula itself, it doesn't take into account students with special needs and the very diverse set of supports that they may need.

You know, oftentimes you see a school or a community that is greatly impacted by the services they're trying to provide, doing the right thing, of course.

But there's a wide range and a wide cost when we're talking about that.

And the funding formula does not take that into account.

I think there's some other places as well.

When you talk about how it's calculated, the ability for communities to pay, you can have some significant fluctuations there.

And there are ways to change that with some of the blending of time and years to make that, to make that less of an impact in a year to year situation.

There's a lot that has to be looked at with the formula, first and foremost.

But I will note our formula is one of the few nationwide that has had the kind of review that it has, including through the courts.

To find a way that we try to make sure that there are dollars there for students who need it, I think everybody does agree with that fundamentally.

We're gonna have to make changes in that formula.

And I think collectively is the way we do that, right?

One of the things that always irks me is when people are left out of the conversation, and I think we bring everybody to the table, have those conversations, we'll make sure we get that right and make the changes that we need.

- Sean, give me a minute or less.

We have an initiative on childcare.

The first 1000 days, coalition on childcare looks at a whole range of issues, affordability, quality, accessible childcare.

Give me a minute or less.

A Spiller administration on childcare in New Jersey would look like what?

Please.

- Oh my god, yeah.

Well, we've gotta make sure we're supporting quality early affordable childcare.

I say that in Montclair when you see that the cost, right?

It's $20,000.

- Sean, the former mayor of Montclair, one of the reasons why Montclair is behind him.

Go ahead, I'm sorry, Sean.

- Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.

And listen, I say that though with the kid in pre-K right now, right?

But it's expensive proposition when you're trying to find that quality space.

And I say this as a state.

Hey, this is a smart investment, right?

Any investment we make in early quality childcare, and certainly education is part of that, is gonna pay back 10 times that, right, in the course of that individual's lifetime.

So it's a smart investment for us.

It's also the one of the big drivers of the inability for families, young families to afford to live where they want to and to be able to get by.

So, absolutely, we'll support it, we'll invest in it, and we'll make sure that families aren't being hit by that in a way that they can't afford.

- Sean Spiller is a democratic candidate for governor in the great state of New Jersey.

President of the NJEA.

To disclose again, the NJEA, a big supporter, significant underwriter of Public Broadcasting and our programming at the Caucus Educational Corporation, part of our series.

New Jersey's next governor.

Sean, thank you so much for joining us.

We appreciate it.

- Listen, thanks so much for having me.

It's really great to see you.

- You got it, stay with us, we'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To see more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato programs, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We are honored to be joined by the Honorable Carl McCall.

He has many firsts.

First, this book just published, it's a memoir.

"Truly Blessed and Highly Favored: A Memoir" by Carl McCall.

A little bit about Mr. McCall.

The first executive director of the Schumann Fund for New Jersey, the first African-American to be selected New York State Comptroller.

In 2002, ran for governor of New York State, lost to George Pataki.

Many, many firsts.

Also, the SUNY Board of Trustees, the president of the Board.

Mr. McCall, an honor to have you with us.

And the first, as I said, former comptroller of the state of New York, and former State Senator.

Carl, great to have you with us.

- Good to be with you, Steve.

Really look forward to this discussion - And there are so many, read about Carl McCall, because I didn't even do justice to all the things that he's done.

- (laughs) okay.

- Carl, first, the title of this book, I read about where the title came from.

Tell folks where "Truly Blessed and Highly Favored" comes from, please.

- Well, when I think back about my life and the ups and downs and the challenges I've had, I remember once running into a woman in a church where I served for a while, and it was a phrase that she used.

- You served as a pastor.

- Oh, that's right.

I've also been an ordained minister, I've done that as well.

And I was serving in a church in Harlem where I was also the state senator, and I was facing some difficulties.

And I went to her and one morning she said to me, "Mr. McCall, don't worry about it.

You are truly blessed and highly favored."

And that's kind of the way I look back at my life.

I started with very little, grow up in a very poor community in Boston, Massachusetts.

No one in my family had ever been to college.

My father deserted us and I was raised by my mother and five sisters and got a scholarship to go to an Ivy League college.

So things really have turned out very well for me.

I've had tremendous opportunities because I think I prepared myself for those opportunities.

And I always was committed to public service, serving others.

And so when I look back over my life, that's the way it's been.

Truly blessed and highly favored by the God above who has made it possible for me to do all of these things.

- You know, it's interesting.

I mentioned the Schumann Fund.

The Schumann Fund for New Jersey.

Carl McCall came after the Newark Riot/Rebellion.

The Schumann Fund was created.

You were selected as the first executive director.

You did not know New Jersey well.

- No, no.

- A, why did you take that role in the foundation community at the Schumann Fund for New Jersey?

And B, what did you learn about New Jersey that's so much different than New York, if at all?

- Well, I took the job because it was so interesting in that you had this generous group of people, the Schumann family.

And the riots had really affected them.

New Jersey was important, Essex County.

And they really wanted to do something.

And they had the resources.

And therefore they wanted their foundation to address not just the problems, but the underlying issues.

Why did these things happen in New Jersey and what could we do to make sure they didn't happen again?

So this was a real challenge for me.

And what I learned about New Jersey, and it's something that was a lesson that I've learned throughout, is to get something done, you have to have the right people.

It all comes down to people.

You can't do it yourself.

You know, you and I might wanna achieve something, but unless we have a group of people who can provide the advice and the assistance and help us execute, nothing happens.

And I ran into some very good people in New Jersey, Gus Heningburg, of course, we said, your dad and just so many other people.

Ken Gibson, who was the new mayor of New Jersey, - New mayor of, sorry for interrupting Mr. McCall.

I met Mr. McCall as a very young man.

The Schumann Fund supportive of my father's work in 1970 and '71, starting an organization called the North Ward Center post riots/rebellion.

You were meeting all these people for the first time.

Correct, Mr. McCall?

- For the first time.

I listened to them, you know, I indicated that Schumann Foundation wanted to be helpful.

They had to tell us what to do, they had to advise us, they had to assist us.

And that's what they did.

And that's what made a difference.

And I've taken that with me and other things that I've done along the way.

But I became a New York State comptroller.

It was a very big job.

2200 people worked in the office, and I was the chief auditor of the state, chief financial officer of the state.

I managed the state's pension fund.

I couldn't do all that by myself, but I was able to pick good people to do the job, to give them the leeway and the support to do it, and to hold them accountable.

And that's the lesson I learned in New Jersey.

And it's the lesson that's been helpful throughout my life.

- Let me ask you this, Mr. McCall.

Because my dad who passed a few years back, and you were contemporaries.

I went back and I said, "I wonder," and I hope you're not, I'm not being too personal here.

I said, "I wonder what Carl McCall's age is."

And you're in your 90s, correct?

- Not yet, almost, I'm 89.

- 89.

I'm working on 90 (laughs) - Sorry about that.

Question, question.

- No, not at all.

- Why are you still so motivated to not just write this book, but to continue to make a difference?

What motivates you?

- What motivates me is, thank God, I still have the ability to make a difference.

I have had experience, tremendous experiences, you know, in the private sector, the public sector.

I've been on nine corporate boards.

I was chairman, I was a member of a commissioner of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

So having had all these experiences, I think I have to share that.

I shouldn't just sit back and say, "Well, gee, these are some nice things that I've done."

But I reach out now to particularly young people, trying to convince them to be involved in public service, because that's so important.

So whatever I can do now to be helpful, I think I have an obligation to use this experience, to use the contacts that I've had and so forth to share that with people who could use those resources.

- Sure, let me ask you this.

You wrote this book, obviously, before the 2024 election, the historical election of Donald Trump and a Republican Congress.

We're taping this after the election.

Why do you, given your experience, your expertise, your understanding of politics, of public policy, of public opinion, why do you think Donald Trump attracted a significant number of African-American and Latino voters?

- I think some of those voters felt like other voters that they felt that they were not getting ahead.

They felt that their children were not gonna say, have the same opportunity that they had, and they were fearful, they were fearful that things were changing and they weren't in control.

And someone came along and helped exploit those fears.

Someone came along and said, "Yes, you are fearful because all of these terrible things are happening.

Immigrants are taking over our country.

Minority people are moving and taking jobs away from people who've had them in the past."

So the fears were exploited and people, therefore, felt that they wanted to go with someone who understood that issue, understood their pain and their suffering.

And the fact is, I don't think there was any offer of how we're gonna help, but the fears were really intensified.

And people said, "Yeah, let's try something different, because right now, things aren't going well for us."

- Mr. McCall, you've been a lifelong Democrat.

To what degree do you believe the Democratic Party has in some ways "lost touch" with the average working class, middle class American, regardless of gender or race or ethnicity?

- I think that has happened.

They're no longer communicating with that group of people.

They have a message that's somewhat condescending.

It's a message that doesn't really suggest to people who are painful and who are hurting now, that these are people who really understand what I need and that they're going to help.

And I think it's been a tremendous wake up call, a real jolt for the Democratic Party.

And the party is gonna have to adjust to that going forward.

Because I think the alternative isn't gonna work either.

The trickle down theory that, look, let's make rich people richer in some way that's gonna help people at the bottom.

That's not gonna work, hasn't worked in the past.

So we would, facing a reckoning now in this country in terms of how are we gonna go forward with programs, projects, and understandings that are gonna uplift everybody.

Everybody has to be involved in the recovery of this country.

- Mr. McCall, you understand philanthropy better than most.

The Schumann Fund for New Jersey, as we talked about, the first executive director back in the 1970s.

Question, to what degree do you believe foundations, the role of philanthropy is more important than ever before?

- It's very important more than ever before because I think they're understanding that they have to play a new role.

There's a book that was recently published by Darren Walker, the very inspiring, very competent president of the Ford Foundation.

And the title of of his book is, "From Generosity to Justice."

The foundations in the past have been providing money and support to people who have been left out, people who were in pain, people who are the victims of larger social issues.

And foundations now have to realize, and Ford Foundation and the Schumann Fund have realized this, that we've gotta look at the root causes.

You can't just look at just help people because they're hurting and we've gotta continue to do that, but why are they hurting?

What are the public policy issues that have to be addressed in order to move forward?

And foundations are now doing this, and we did this way back with your dad and others, what we created in Newark.

Ken Gibson, as you know, was a new mayor.

And Ken Gibson and I met him and he admitted that, you know, this is a very big job he has.

Maybe he doesn't have the experience, he needs some help.

And what we did was establish something called the Office of Newark Studies, where we brought in people to really deal with public policy and the issues behind the kind of social programs that we were putting forward.

- I'm gonna remind people of the book.

It is called "Truly Blessed and Highly Favored: A Memoir" from H. Carl McCall.

Mr. McCall, you honor us by being with us.

Thank you so much.

- Thank you, my pleasure.

See you next time.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Celebrating 30 years in public broadcasting.

Funding has been provided by RWJBarnabas Health.

Let’s be healthy together.

The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

Operating Engineers, Local 825.

Kean University.

Eastern Atlantic States Regional Council of Carpenters.

New Brunswick Development Corporation.

IBEW Local 102.

And by Johnson & Johnson.

Promotional support provided by NJ.Com.

And by ROI-NJ.

Here at Kean University, everyone gets their chance to climb higher.

Michael came to Kean and found his passion for health care, and now he's a doctor.

After Tricia graduated, her graphic design work was featured in The New York Times.

Samantha is studying athletic training and finding her path to an internship with the New York Giants.

Real Students.

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Real Success.

Cougars Climb Higher.

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