TONIGHT ON SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLAR, ENVIRONMENTAL ATTORNEY, ADVOCATE AND AUTHOR ROB BILOTT.

STAY TUNED, SHOWCASE START RIGHT NOW.

KELLAR: ROB BILOTT, I WANTED TO TALK TO YOU SO LONG.

I'M SO HAPPY THAT YOU'RE HERE.

AND I WANT YOU TO TELL OUR AUDIENCE WHY YOU'RE HEE.

BILOTT: WELL, FIRST, THANK SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

IT'S REALLY AN HONOR TO BE HERE AND BE ABLE TO TALK TO YOU.

YOU KNOW, IT'S -- HOPEFULLY WE'LL TALK ABOUT THIS STORY OF FOREVER CHEMICALS AND HOW IT TOOK, YOU KNOW, SOME 20 YEARS TO TO UNCOVER WHAT HAS BECOME REALLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS WE'VE EVER SEEN.

WE'VE GOT MANMADE TOXIC CHEMICALS.

THESE CHEMICALS THAT DIDN'T EXIST ON THE PLANET PRIOR TO WORLD WAR II THAT ARE NOW BEING FOUND IN DRINKING WATER, IN SOIL, IN AIR, IN WILDLIFE ALL OVER THE PLANET AND IN THE BLOOD OF VIRTUALLY EVERY PERSON ON THE PLANET.

BABIES ARE BEING BORN PRE- POLLUTED WITH THESE CHEMICALS.

AND WE'RE ALL JUST NOW LEARNING ABOUT THIS, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR OVER 70 YEARS.

AND WHAT IT REALLY TOOK FOR SOME INDIVIDUALS IN WEST VIRGINIA WHOSE COWS WERE DYING, YOU KNOW, TO SAY, "SOMETHING'S GOING ON HERE.

SOMETHING IS HAPPENING, SOMETHING THAT -- THERE'S SOME SORT OF CONTAMINATION GOING ON HERE.

WE NEED TO GET TO THE BOTTOM OF IT."

AND THE COURAGE OF THAT FAMILY AND HIS NEIGHBORS OF STANDING UP AND DEMANDING SOMETHING BE DONE LED TO A 20 YEAR SAGA OF WHAT IT TOOK TO GET TO DISCOVER WHAT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING, THAT THESE CHEMICALS WERE THERE.

AND FOR ALL OF US TO NOW KNOW ABOUT IT, KELLAR: YOU'RE LEAVING YOURSELF OUT.

COME ON.

TELL OUR AUDIENCE ABOUT THE MOVIE.

BILOTT: SURE.

THERE IS A MOVIE THAT JUST CAME OUT.

IT WAS THE END OF 2019 CALLED DARK WATERS THAT REALLY FOCUSED ON THIS STORY ABOUT HOW DID THIS HAPPEN.

YOU KNOW?

HOW HOW DO YOU GET CHEMICALS LIKE THIS THAT ARE KNOWN TO BE TOXIC, CAUSE CANCER, CAUSE ALL KINDS OF ADVERSE EFFECTS THAT ARE IN EVERYBODY ALL OVER THE PLANET?

HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN DURING OUR LIFETIMES IN THE UNITED STATES AND NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT IT?

NOBODY KNEW THIS WAS HAPPENING.

HOW DID THIS HAPPEN AND HOW DID WE FINALLY LEARN ABOUT IT?

SO, YOU KNOW, WE WERE APPROACHED BACK IN 2016 AFTER A NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE ARTICLE HAD COME OUT THAT WAS REALLY SUMMARIZING WHAT HAD HAPPENED AND WAS HIGHLIGHTING THE STORY FOR REALLY THE FIRST TIME.

MARK RUFFALO HAD READ THAT ARTICLE IN THE NEW YORK TIMES AND WAS FLABBERGASTED.

HE WAS -- HE FOLLOWED ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES.

HE WAS VERY ACTIVE ON WATER CONTAMINATION ISSUES.

SO HE CALLED AND WANTED TO KNOW, WAS THIS REALLY -- HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

HOW DID THIS KIND OF CONTAMINATION, OF NOT ONLY THE ENTIRE UNITED STATES, BUT THE ENTIRE PLANET HAPPEN WITH NOBODY KNOWING ABOUT IT?

HOW DO WE GET THIS STORY OUT TO THE REST OF THE PUBLIC?

HOW DO WE DO SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WILL UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS IMPORTANT AND WHY THINGS NEED TO CHANGE?

SO HE TEAMED UP WITH THE FOLKS AT PARTICIPANT MEDIA WHO HAD DONE SOME AMAZING FILMS IN THE PAST, LIKE THE HELP OR BRIDGE OF SPIES, AND, YOU KNOW, A SPOTLIGHT WAS ONE OF HIS FORMER FILMS.

SO HE SAID, "LOOK, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO BE ABLE TO DO A MOVIE THAT TELLS THE STORY AND SHOWS HOW THIS REALLY AFFECTED REAL PEOPLE AND HOW REAL PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY WERE ABLE TO TAKE ON ONE OF THE BIGGEST COMPANIES IN THE WORLD, THE DUPONT CHEMICAL COMPANY, AND ACTUALLY BEAT THEM AND ACTUALLY GET THIS INFORMATION OUT, BRING THE STORY OUT TO THE PUBLIC."

AND IT'S LED TO INCREDIBLE CHANGE.

THESE CHEMICALS ARE BEING PHASED OUT.

PEOPLE NOW KNOW THEY'RE BEING EXPOSED TO THESE THINGS.

AND IT'S BEEN REALLY INCREDIBLE TO SEE THAT MOVIE COME OUT AND TO SEE PEOPLE SEE THE STORY AND ACTUALLY TAKE ACTION.

WE'RE SEEING LEGISLATION NOW BEING PROPOSED TO TRY TO ADDRESS ALL THIS.

SO IT'S BEEN AN INCREDIBLE THING TO WATCH HAPPEN.

KELLAR: BUT YOU'RE THE PERSON WHO HAD THE TENACITY TO KEEP IT UP AND YOUR LAW FIRM ALLOWED YOU TO DO IT.

BUT NOT EVERYONE WAS ON BOARD.

AND BECAUSE YOU PERSEVERED, YOU PERSONALLY, YOU MADE THIS INVESTIGATION POSSIBLE.

AND THE LEGAL -- TELL A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE LEGAL THINGS, THE HOOPS YOU HAD TO JUMP THROUGH, I GUESS, TO GET TO A SUMMATION AND A LAWSUIT.

BILOTT: SURE.

YOU KNOW, THIS FARMER IN WEST VIRGINIA, MR. TENNANT, AND YOU SEE HIM IN THE FILM, WILBUR TENNANT, AND THERE'S A DOCUMENTARY AS WELL, THE DEVIL WE KNOW THAT FOCUSES ON THE TENNANT FAMILY AND THE PEOPLE THAT BROUGHT THIS STORY OUT.

HE CALLED ME IN 1998 AND I WAS WORKING AT THE TAFT LAW FIRM, TAFT STETTINIUS & HOLLISTER.

IN FACT, THIS IS NOW MY 30TH YEAR AT THE FIRM.

I STARTED HERE -- KELLAR: YES, YOU ARE A PARTNER.

BILOTT: YES, I STARTED IN THE CINCINNATI OFFICE IN 1990 AND HAVE BEEN THERE EVER SINCE.

AND FOR THE FIRST EIGHT YEARS OR SO I WAS WORKING FOR A LOT OF OUR BIG CORPORATE CLIENTS, HELPING THEM GET ENVIRONMENTAL PERMITS AND THINGS.

AND MR. TENNANT HAD CALLED ME SAYING HE'S GOT THESE COWS DYING.

AND I'M AN ENVIRONMENTAL LAWYER, SO, YOU KNOW, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO HELP HIM OUT.

AND I WAS ABOUT TO HANG UP THE PHONE, BUT HE HAD MENTIONED HE GOT MY NAME FROM MY GRANDMOTHER BECAUSE HE HAD ACTUALLY BEEN CALLING FROM A COMMUNITY WHERE MY MOM'S FAMILY HAD GROWN UP.

MY ENTIRE MOM'S FAMILY HAD LIVED THERE THEIR WHOLE LIVES.

I SPENT A LOT OF TIME THERE AS A KID, PARKERSBURG, WEST VIRGINIA.

SO WHEN I HEARD THAT, I SAID, "YEAH, COME ON IN.

YOU KNOW, WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE, SEE IF THERE'S SOMETHING WE CAN HELP YOU WITH."

SO HE SHOWED UP WITH BOXES OF VIDEOTAPES AND PHOTOGRAPHS.

HE CAME UP TO OUR OFFICES HERE IN CINCINNATI.

THIS WAS FALL OF '98.

YOU COULD SEE WHITE FOAMING WATER THAT HIS COWS WERE DRINKING FROM AND THEY WERE GETTING SICK AND DROPPING DEAD AND TUMORS AND BLACK TEETH.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THOUGHT I COULD HELP HIM WITH THIS.

KELLAR: YEAH, I GUESS SO, YEAH.

BILOTT: IT WAS A LANDFILL THAT WAS JUST CHARGING WASTE.

AND THAT'S WHAT I HELPED PEOPLE FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET -- RUN LANDFILLS.

SO WE AGREED TO TAKE THAT CASE ON IN '98 AND WE HAD NO IDEA IT WOULD LEAD TO THE DISCOVERY OF SOME UNREGULATED CHEMICAL IN THE WATER THAT THE COWS WERE DRINKING.

THAT WAS ALSO IN THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY'S DRINKING WATER AND WAS IN THE WATER ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND ALL OF OUR BLOOD.

BUT WE TOOK THAT CASE ON A '98 AND IT LED TO WE FIGURED OUT IT WAS IN THE COMMUNITY'S WATER TO A BIG CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT THAT TAFT, AS YOU SEE IN THE MOVIE, IN DARK WATERS.

YOU KNOW, WE AGREED TO TAKE THAT ON.

THIS WAS A MASSIVE PUBLIC HEALTH THREAT.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

BILOTT: AND WE HANDLED THAT CASE FOR YEARS THROUGH A LOT OF DIFFICULT TIMES WHERE WE HAD TO SET UP BIG SCIENTIFIC STUDIES.

NOBODY REALLY KNEW HOW THIS WAS GOING TO SHAKE OUT.

IT TOOK YEARS AND YEARS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT WAS INCREDIBLY FORTUNATE THAT, YOU KNOW, I WAS WITH TAFT AND TAFT HAD AGREED TO TAKE THIS CASE ON AND AGREED TO STICK BY IT, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS REALLY UNCHARTED WATERS.

THESE WERE -- THIS WAS AN UNREGULATED CHEMICAL.

THESE WERE NEW TYPES OF LEGAL CLAIMS WE WERE PURSUING.

AND IT WASN'T NECESSARILY THE MOST POPULAR THING TO BE DOING, BUT IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK FOLKS WHO SEE THE FILMS, EITHER EITHER DARK WATERS OR THE DOCUMENTARY, YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU'LL SEE THAT, YOU KNOW, IT TOOK A LOT OF COURAGE TO DO WHAT THE FIRM DID.

BUT WE ALL BENEFIT NOW FROM THE FACT THAT WE DID IT.

KELLAR: THE OTHER SIGNIFICANT THING IS THERE WERE NO BILLABLE HOURS AND TAFT TOOK IT ON PRO BONO.

AND THE SETTLEMENT, WHICH YOU CAN -- WHICH IS IN THE END OF THE FILM, SOUNDS ASTRONOMICAL, BUT IT ISN'T BECAUSE IT WAS 20 YEARS OF LEGAL AND WHATEVER ELSE IT ENCOMPASSED.

BILOTT: RIGHT.

KELLAR: AND TELL THEM WHY THEY -- DUPONT FINALLY AGREED TO THAT LARGE SETTLEMENT.

BILOTT: YOU KNOW, WHEN WE FIRST TOOK THE CASE ON, IT WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TIMES WE HAD DONE SOMETHING, WHAT WE CALL A CONTINGENCY FEE.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

BILOTT: WHERE THE LAWYERS DON'T GET PAID BY THE HOUR TO DO THE WORK, YOU ONLY GET PAID IF YOU RECOVER.

KELLAR: YEAH.

BILOTT: SO THAT WAS SORT OF, AGAIN, THE UNCHARTED WATERS.

BUT SO THERE WAS -- THIS WAS A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

THIS WAS MANY YEARS THAT WE'RE DOING THIS WITH ALL KINDS OF EXPERTS, YOU KNOW, TOXICOLOGISTS, EPIDEMIOLOGISTS.

KELLAR: RIGHT, ALL WHO HAVE TO BE PAID.

BILOTT: EXACTLY.

THEY GET PAID.

KELLAR: THEY GET PAID, BUT YOU DON'T, YEAH.

BILOTT: RIGHT.

SO IT WAS AN EXPENSIVE PROCESS.

BUT THROUGHOUT THIS LITIGATION, WE FINALLY -- YOU KNOW, WE WERE SEEING THE DOCUMENTS THAT SAID THIS CHEMICAL IS VERY TOXIC, VERY HAZARDOUS TO PEOPLE.

KELLAR: YEAH.

BILOTT: THE COMPANY WAS FIGHTING AND DENYING THAT.

SO WE SET UP THIS KIND OF UNIQUE PROCESS TO HAVE INDEPENDENT SCIENTISTS CONFIRM WHAT THE HEALTH EFFECTS WERE.

WE ENDED UP GETTING 69,000 PEOPLE FROM THAT COMMUNITY WHO PARTICIPATED, WHICH IS WHY IT ALSO TOOK SO LONG, SEVEN YEARS OF STUDY.

BUT THAT PROCESS CONFIRMED THAT THE CHEMICAL WAS LINKED WITH SIX DISEASES, INCLUDING TWO TYPES OF CANCER.

SO WHEN THAT HAPPENED, ANYBODY WHO HAD THOSE DISEASES IN THE COMMUNITY, THEY COULD BRING CLAIMS.

SO WE STARTED TAKING THOSE TO TRIAL.

KELLAR: AND ONE AT A TIME.

BILOTT: ONE AT A TIME.

AND AS YOU SEE IT IN THE FILM, YOU KNOW, WE WON EVERY CASE.

SO IN THE MIDDLE OF THE FOURTH TRIAL, DUPONT FINALLY AGREED TO SETTLE ALL THOSE CLAIMS FOR ABOUT $670 MILLION.

AND THEN THEY JUST SETTLED ANOTHER HUNDRED OR SO FOR ANOTHER $83 MILLION.

KELLAR: FOR THE SAME CASE?

BILOTT: FOR THE SAME GROUP, THE SAME GROUP OUTSIDE OF THAT PLANT IN WEST VIRGINIA.

SO ABOUT OVER $750 MILLION JUST FOR THAT COMMUNITY.

KELLAR: YEAH.

BILOTT: THE PROBLEM IS, WE NOW KNOW IT'S NOT JUST IN THE WATER THERE, IT'S ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

SO WE NOW HAVE -- THERE'S LITIGATION GOING ON ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES, ACTUALLY OVERSEAS AS WELL, BECAUSE THESE CHEMICALS ARE IN OTHER PEOPLE'S WATER.

OTHER PEOPLE ARE GETTING SICK AND THE COMPANY IS STILL DENYING AND FIGHTING THOSE CLAIMS.

KELLAR: WHAT DID DUPONT DO TO CLEAN IT ALL UP?

BILOTT: WELL, THEY AGREED TO PUT IN FILTRATION SYSTEMS FOR THE IMPACTED WATER SUPPLIES ALONG THE OHIO RIVER.

TO THIS DAY, THOUGH, THEY HAVE STILL NOT ACTUALLY GONE OUT AND REMOVED THESE CHEMICALS.

AND THE PROBLEM IS WE CALL THEM FOREVER CHEMICALS, BECAUSE WHEN THEY GET IN THE ENVIRONMENT, THEY DON'T BREAK DOWN.

THESE MANMADE CHEMICALS HAVE THIS WEIRD STRUCTURE THAT MAKES IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO BREAK DOWN IN THE ENVIRONMENT.

SO THEY'LL STAY THERE FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS UNLESS WE GO GET THEM AND REMOVE THEM.

ALL OF THIS STUFF THAT'S BEEN EMITTED OVER 70 YEARS, IT'S STILL OUT THERE.

SO -- BUT NOBODY'S ACTUALLY STARTED THE CLEANUP YET.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE CONCERN, PARTICULARLY FOR THOSE OF US HERE, YOU KNOW, IN CINCINNATI, ALONG THE OHIO RIVER, THIS WAS HAPPENING UPRIVER IN PARKERSBURG AND THIS ALL FLOWS DOWN THE OHIO RIVER.

AND SO THERE'S BEEN MASSIVE CONTAMINATION, YOU KNOW, OF THE OHIO RIVER FOR DECADES.

SOME OF THESE CHEMICALS HAVE EVEN BEEN FOUND AS FAR SOUTH AS LOUISVILLE AND THROUGH NORTHERN KENTUCKY.

SO IT'S AN ONGOING ISSUE BECAUSE THESE CHEMICALS ARE STILL THERE AND WE STILL ARE NOW HAVING TO FIGURE OUT HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THEY'RE NOT IN OUR WATER?

HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THEY'RE NOT IN OUR FOOD?

AND THEN ARE OUR PRODUCTS THAT WE'RE STILL BUYING?

KELLAR: AND DOESN'T -- WOULDN'T THE ENVIRONMENTAL AGENCY SAY TO DUPONT, "YOU HAVE TO DO THIS?"

I MEAN, HOW ARE THEY ALLOWED TO GET BY WITH NOT DOING WHAT THEY WERE LEGALLY TOLD THEY HAD TO?

BILOTT: AND THAT WHOLE ISSUE IS ONE OF THE REASONS I WROTE THE BOOK EXPOSURE IS BECAUSE I THINK WHEN PEOPLE SIT BACK AND LOOK AT THIS STORY AND SEE THIS AND THE IMMEDIATE REACTION IS: WHERE WAS THE US EPA?

WHY WAS THIS HAPPENING?

WHY DIDN'T OUR GOVERNMENT PREVENT THIS?

IF THIS -- HOW COULD A TOXIC CHEMICAL LIKE THIS GET INTO ALL OF OUR WATER?

KELLAR: ISN'T THAT THEIR JOB?

BILOTT: RIGHT.

WELL, PART OF THE PROBLEM WAS THE COMPANY WAS WITHHOLDING ALL THE INFORMATION.

THEY HAD ALL OF THIS DATA AND THEY WERE DOING ALL THESE STUDIES SHOWING IT'S TOXIC.

THEY KNEW IT WAS IN THE DRINKING WATER.

THEY KNEW IT WAS IN ALL OF OUR BLOOD.

THEY WEREN'T TELLING ANYBODY ELSE.

AND WE ONLY FOUND OUT BECAUSE THAT FARMER IN WEST VIRGINIA HAD COME TO US AND WE HAD IN OUR LAWSUIT, WE FORCED THE COMPANY TO GIVE US ALL THOSE INTERNAL DOCUMENTS.

THAT'S HOW WE FINALLY FOUND OUT.

WE THEN TOLD THE US EPA AND THE GOVERNMENT REGULATORS.

THEN THEY HAD TO START TO FIGURE OUT WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT THIS NOW?

BECAUSE IT'S ALL OVER THE COUNTRY ALREADY.

KELLAR: YEAH.

BILOTT: HOW DO WE CLEAN THIS MESS UP NOW THAT IF WE'D BEEN TOLD ABOUT IT DECADES AGO, MAYBE WE COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

BUT NOW HERE WE ARE TRYING TO CATCH UP.

KELLAR: IT'S OUT THERE AND YOU CAN'T KILL IT.

BILOTT: CORRECT.

KELLAR: YOU, IN ADDITION, YOU FORMED AN AGENCY CALLED FOREVER -- WHAT IS THAT, THE GROUP?

BILOTT: WELL, WHEN THE MOVIE LAUNCHED, WHEN DARK WATERS CAME OUT, THERE WAS A COALITION THAT FORMED THE CALLED FIGHT FOREVER CHEMICALS.

AND THAT WAS A DIFFERENT COMMUNITY GROUPS ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT ARE FINDING OUT THESE CHEMICALS ARE IN THEIR WATER, TOO, THAT ARE GETTING TOGETHER, THAT ARE TRYING TO MAKE INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE ONLINE SO THAT WHEN PEOPLE FIND OUT THIS STUFF'S IN THEIR WATER OR THEY'VE BEEN EXPOSED TO IT AND THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT COULD IT DO, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THE HEALTH EFFECTS AND WHAT SHOULD I TALK TO MY DOCTOR ABOUT?

KELLAR: RIGHT.

BILOTT: THAT THAT INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE TO FOLKS.

SO THAT'S BEEN DONE SO THAT PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO THE INFORMATION.

BECAUSE, AGAIN, THIS HAPPENED BECAUSE INFORMATION WAS WITHHELD FROM PEOPLE, COVERED UP.

AND SO PART OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS FIX THAT PROBLEM, GET THE INFORMATION OUT TO PEOPLE.

KELLAR: AND THAT IS IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE ENVIRONMENTAL PEOPLE AND THE GOVERNMENT?

BILOTT: WE, IT'S BEING DONE THROUGH DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS, LIKE WHAT THEY CALL NON-GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS, NGOS, COMMUNITY GROUPS, ACTIVISTS THAT ARE GETTING TOGETHER, TRYING TO MAKE THIS INFORMATION AVAILABLE.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE ACTUAL GOVERNMENT REGULATORS, THE FEDERAL US EPA, THEIR PROCESSES FOR REGULATING THESE CHEMICALS ARE SO SLOW AND TAKE SO LONG.

KELLAR: YEAH, I CAN ONLY IMAGINE.

BILOTT: AND THAT WE JUST NOW, JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, HAD THE US EPA SAY, "WE PLAN TO NOW REGULATE THIS CHEMICAL IN DRINKING WATER."

THAT'S BEEN 20 YEARS.

THAT'S A 20 YEAR PROCESS.

SO IT WAS SO IMPORTANT THAT THESE FOLKS HAD THE ABILITY TO GO INTO COURT AND GET THIS FIXED IN THE MEANTIME.

OTHERWISE THEY'D STILL BE DRINKING THIS.

THE PEOPLE WHO HAD CANCER AND OTHER DISEASES WOULD HAVE HAD NOWHERE TO GO BECAUSE IT TAKES SO LONG FOR THESE THINGS TO BE REGULATED AND ADDRESSED AND MEANWHILE PEOPLE ARE EXPOSED.

SO I THINK IF ANYTHING, ONE OF THE THINGS THIS FILM SHOWS AND YOU SEE IN THE DOCUMENTARY AND DISCUSSED IN THE BOOK, TOO, IS THE INCREDIBLE VALUE AND POWER OF OUR LEGAL SYSTEM IN THE US.

AND WE'RE HEARING THAT FROM FOLKS IN OTHER COUNTRIES.

YOU KNOW, THESE CHEMICALS WERE USED NOT JUST IN TEFLON PANS, BUT THINGS LIKE SCOTCHGARD, STAIN RESISTANT, WATERPROOF CLOTHING, CARPETING.

KELLAR: GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY.

BILOTT: FAST FOOD WRAPPERS, PACKAGING, SO IT'S EVERYWHERE.

AND SO AS PEOPLE ARE NOW LEARNING THAT THIS STUFF IS IN THEIR WATER IN THESE OTHER COUNTRIES, THEY'RE COMING TO US SAYING, "HOW DID YOU DO THIS?"

BECAUSE IN A LOT OF COUNTRIES, THEY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO INTO COURT AND ADDRESS THIS IN ANY WAY.

SO, YEAH, I THINK THIS SHOWS THE REAL VALUE AND POWER OF OUR LEGAL SYSTEM.

KELLAR: YEAH, A COUPLE OF THINGS.

HOW DO WE KNOW IT'S NOT IN OUR -- THOSE OF US WHO DRINK BOTTLED WATER, HOW DO WE KNOW IT'S NOT IN THAT WATER?

I DON'T LIKE THAT LOOK.

YOU'RE GOING TO TELL ME IT IS.

BILOTT: WELL, THERE ACTUALLY WAS JUST A STUDY THAT CAME OUT BY CONSUMER REPORTS WHERE THEY WENT OUT AND ACTUALLY LOOKED FOR THESE CHEMICALS IN SOME OF THE LEADING BOTTLED WATER BRANDS.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, THEY DID FIND THEM.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CHEMICALS THAT, YOU KNOW, ARE INCREDIBLY PERSISTENT.

THEY STAY IN THE ENVIRONMENT.

THEY STAY IN OUR WATER.

THEY GET EVERYWHERE.

AND THE PROBLEM IS THE HEALTH EFFECTS, THE NEGATIVE EFFECTS WE'RE SEEING ARE BEING FOUND TO OCCUR AT VERY, VERY LOW LEVELS.

SO THE LEVELS OF CONCERN ARE DROPPING LOWER AND LOWER.

SO THEY'RE NOW DEVELOPING TECHNIQUES TO LOOK FOR THESE CHEMICALS AT VERY LOW LEVELS, PART PER TRILLION LEVEL.

YOU KNOW, SOMETHING LESS THAN ONE DROP IN A DOZEN OLYMPIC SWIMMING POOLS.

AND THAT'S THE LEVEL THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THAT COULD BE OF CONCERN.

SO THERE WAS A STUDY JUST DONE THE LOOKING FOR THIS IN EVEN BOTTLED WATERS, AND UNFORTUNATELY, VERY LOW LEVELS HAVE BEEN FOUND IN A NUMBER OF BOTTLED WATERS AS WELL.

KELLAR: AND WHAT ABOUT WHEN YOU MENTIONED SWIMMING POOLS.

WE ALWAYS THINK THAT SWIMMING POOLS HAVE CHLORINE TO KILL THE GERMS.

IS THE CHLORINE TOXIC?

BILOTT: YOU KNOW, THAT'S -- THERE -- I THINK CHLORINE IS ONE OF THE CHEMICALS THAT WE FORTUNATELY KNOW A LOT ABOUT AND HAS BEEN KNOWN FOR A LONG TIME.

SO I THINK THAT'S ONE THAT HAS BEEN FAIRLY WELL REGULATED SO THAT WE KNOW WHETHER WE'RE PUTTING TOO MUCH OF THIS IN.

AND, YOU KNOW, AND EVEN THOUGH THESE OTHER CHEMICALS THAT WE ONLY FOUND OUT ABOUT BECAUSE COWS WERE DROPPING DEAD IN WEST VIRGINIA.

OTHERWISE NONE OF US WOULD HAVE EVEN KNOWN THESE CHEMICALS WERE OUT THERE.

YOU KNOW, THESE WE'RE JUST NOW TRYING TO CATCH UP TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS -- IS THERE A SAFE LEVEL IN THESE CHEMICALS?

KELLAR: TODAY ARE YOU AND STILL VERY MUCH INVOLVED AND WHAT IS YOUR ROLE TODAY?

BILOTT: YEAH.

YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY, THE STORY THAT YOU SEE IN THE FILMS WITH DARK WATERS, YOU KNOW, ABOUT THIS ONE CHEMICAL, PFOA, THAT WAS USED IN TEFLON AND MADE BY DUPONT, THAT WAS JUST SORT OF THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

WHAT WE'VE LEARNED IS THAT ONE CHEMICAL, PFOA, IS PART OF AN ENTIRE FAMILY OF THESE MANMADE PER- AND POLYFLUOROALKYL SUBSTANCES, A REAL BIG MOUTHFUL THAT'S CALLED PFAS, P-F-A-S.

THERE ARE HUNDREDS, IF NOT THOUSANDS OF THOSE.

AND WE'RE FINDING THAT THESE THINGS ARE NOT JUST POPPING UP OUTSIDE THE MANUFACTURING PLANTS, BUT THEY'RE POPPING UP IN DRINKING WATER SUPPLIES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.

AND NOW WATER PROVIDERS, STATES, CITIES ARE BRINGING CLAIMS TO TRY TO MAKE SURE THAT THE TAXPAYERS AREN'T STUCK HAVING TO CLEAN THEIR WATER UP NOW, BUT THAT THE COMPANIES WHO DID THAT SHOULD PAY.

SO THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF LITIGATION.

WE'RE NOW REPRESENTING DIFFERENT MUNICIPALITIES AND WATER PROVIDERS, WE'RE REPRESENTING STATES.

WE'RE REPRESENTING COMMUNITIES ALL OVER THE COUNTRY THAT ARE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE COSTS THAT ARE NOW BEING IMPOSED ON ALL OF US TO TRY TO CLEAN THIS UP, WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO PAY THAT.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

BILOTT: THAT THE COMPANIES WHO PUT THIS OUT THERE KNOWING.

AND THAT'S THE SCARY PART.

I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DOCUMENTS, THEY KNEW BACK IN THE '60S AND '70S, "IF WE PUT THIS STUFF INTO THE WORLD, IT WILL GET INTO PEOPLE'S WATER.

IT WILL GET INTO THEIR BLOOD."

THEY SHOULD BE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT.

SO UNFORTUNATELY, WE NOW HAVE LITIGATION ALL OVER THE COUNTRY THAT WE'RE INVOLVED IN TRYING TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE ARE PROTECTED FROM THESE.

KELLAR: ARE YOU STILL THE LEAD PERSON?

BILOTT: I AM HELPING LEAD TEAMS NOW.

NOW THAT WE HAVE OTHER LAW FIRMS AND OTHER PEOPLE THAT WE'RE WORKING WITH, AGAIN, ALL OVER THE COUNTRY BECAUSE OF JUST THE SCALE OF THIS.

AND I'M WORKING TO TRY TO HELP SPREAD INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, TALKING WITH FOLKS INTERNATIONALLY AS WELL, AND IN EUROPE AND IN AUSTRALIA AND OTHER PLACES THAT ARE JUST NOW FINDING OUT THAT THESE THINGS EVEN EXIST AND ARE LOOKING FOR ACCURATE INFORMATION.

UNFORTUNATELY, THERE'S A LOT OF MISINFORMATION STILL BEING SPUN, YOU KNOW, THAT "WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THESE CHEMICALS."

AS IF EVERYTHING YOU SEE IN THE FILM, ALL THOSE STUDIES THAT WERE DONE NEVER HAPPENED.

SO I'M DOING EVERYTHING I CAN TO TRY TO MAKE SURE ACCURATE INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE.

KELLAR: ARE THERE METHODS OF GETTING RID OF THIS STUFF SAFELY?

ARE THEY AVAILABLE?

THE COMPANIES JUST DON'T WANT TO DO IT BECAUSE IT'S CHEAPER TO DO IT THE WRONG WAY THAN IF THEY DID IT CORRECTLY?

HOW DO YOU GET RID OF CHEMICALS THAT CAN'T BE KILLED?

IT'S LIKE A MONSTER.

BILOTT: WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE SEEING HAPPEN RIGHT NOW IS AS THE PUBLIC IS FINALLY LEARNING THAT THESE CHEMICALS ARE THERE AND ARE BEING USED IN ALL THESE DIFFERENT PRODUCTS, YOU'RE SEEING THE PUBLIC DEMAND THAT COMPANIES MOVE AWAY FROM THESE.

THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES FOR THESE CHEMICALS IN A LOT OF PRODUCTS.

YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO HAVE THESE IN THESE PRODUCTS.

SO THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF COMPANIES THAT HAVE COME FORWARD JUST RECENTLY ANNOUNCING THAT THEY'RE MOVING AWAY FROM THESE.

A LOT OF THE FAST FOOD COMPANIES HAVE NOW ANNOUNCED THEY ARE NOT GOING TO USE ANY WRAPPING OR PACKAGING THAT HAS THESE CHEMICALS ANYMORE.

THERE ARE BIG CLOTHING RETAILERS THAT HAVE SAID, "WE ARE ALSO NOW NOT GOING TO ALLOW ANY SPRAYS OR COATINGS ON OUR FABRICS USING IT."

CARPET RETAILERS ARE SAYING THE SAME THING.

SO AS THE PUBLIC BECOMES AWARE, THAT'S HELPING MOVE MANUFACTURERS AWAY FROM THESE TO SAFER CHEMICALS.

KELLAR: OKAY.

SO THEY'RE FOCUSING NOT SO MUCH ON THE USE OF THESE CHEMICALS, BUT ON CONTROLLING HOW THEY'RE USED IN EVERYDAY LIFE.

AND SO THE BUSINESSES ARE CONTROLLED.

THE CORPORATIONS ARE SUPPOSEDLY.

I'M THINKING OF PLASTIC STRAWS AND NOW A LOT OF RESTAURANTS HAVE PAPER STRAWS, WHICH, OF COURSE, THEY DETERIORATE AS YOU'RE DRINKING YOUR TEA.

BUT A STRAW THAT'S MADE WITH THOSE CHEMICALS, IMAGINE YOU'RE PUTTING IT RIGHT IN YOUR MOUTH AND THEY'RE ADDRESSING NOW.

BILOTT: WELL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ACTUALLY AN EXAMPLE THAT JUST CAME UP RECENTLY ABOUT THIS WHOLE CONCEPT WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT USING REGRETTABLE SUBSTITUTIONS, THAT WE'RE NOT MOVING FROM ONE BAD THING TO SOMETHING JUST AS BAD.

STRAWS ARE AN EXAMPLE THAT HAVE BEEN USED BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE WANTED TO GET AWAY FROM THE PLASTICS IN THE STRAWS AND HAVE MOVED TO THESE PAPER STRAWS.

WELL, THERE IS RESEARCH THAT JUST CAME OUT AND YOU COULD PROBABLY GUESS WHAT I'M ABOUT TO SAY, THAT SOME OF THESE PAPER STRAWS ARE COATED WITH PFAS CHEMICALS, YOU KNOW?

SO THAT'S THE CONCERN.

WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT ENOUGH INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE TO FOLKS TO KNOW, YOU KNOW.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT INADVERTENTLY EXPOSING PEOPLE TO THESE THINGS.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT TAKES NOT ONLY THE COMPANIES VOLUNTARILY MOVING AWAY AND SWITCHING, BUT THE REGULATORY SYSTEM AND THE LEGAL SYSTEM HAVE TO CATCH UP TO WHAT WE NOW KNOW THROUGH THE SCIENCE THAT THESE POSE A THREAT.

AND ACTUALLY OUR LAWS ARE STARTING TO CHANGE AND ADAPT TO THIS, BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK THIS WHOLE STORY HAS HIGHLIGHTED IS NOT ONLY THE PROBLEM WITH, YOU KNOW, THE WAY, THE SLOW PACE OF REGULATIONS.

AND IT'S THE INABILITY SOMETIMES OF OUR LEGAL SYSTEM TO CATCH UP TO WHAT WE KNOW FROM THE SCIENCE, KELLAR: ROB, WE COULD GO ON FOR A LOT, LOT LONGER.

OUR TIME IS UP, BUT JUST REITERATE THE PROJECTS YOU CURRENTLY WORK WITH AND THE NAMES OF THE TWO MOVIES.

BILOTT: SURE.

KELLAR: AND HOW THEY MIGHT SEE THEM.

SO I KNOW PEOPLE WILL WANT TO WATCH THE MOVIES AND YOUR BOOKS.

TELL US ALL OF THOSE.

RIGHT, REAL FAST.

BILOTT: SURE.

YOU KN, IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN THIS STORY ABOUT THESE PFAS FOREVER CHEMICALS AND WHERE THEY CAME FROM, HOW THEY GOT INTO EVERYTHING AND EVERYBODY AND WHAT WE CAN MAYBE HOPEFULLY DO ABOUT IT NOW TO MAKE SURE THAT SOMETHING LIKE THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN, THAT THE STORY IS SHOWN IN A GREAT FILM, DARK WATERS, STARRING MARK RUFFALO AND -- KELLAR: AND IT'S THE STORY OF YOU.

BILOTT: YEAH, TIM ROBBINS AND A GREAT CAST FROM PARTICIPANT AND FOCUS FEATURES.

THERE'S A DOCUMENTARY THAT FEATURES A LOT OF THE REAL PEOPLE CALLED THE DEVIL WE KNOW, WHICH I THINK IS CURRENTLY AVAILABLE ON NETFLIX.

DARK WATERS CAN BE DOWNLOADED ONLINE FROM DIFFERENT SERVICES.

AND I'VE GOT A BOOK CALLED EXPOSURE, WHICH GOES INTO MORE DETAIL ABOUT HOW THIS ALL HAPPENED AND HOPEFULLY HELPS PROVIDE MAYBE A ROADMAP FOR FOLKS TO KNOW HOW WE CAN FIX THESE THINGS GOING FORWARD.

KELLAR: THEY CAN PROBABLY GET THE BOOK AT JOSEPH BETH OR WHEREVER.

BILOTT: IT'S ONLINE.

KELLAR: THANK YOU SO MUCH, NOT JUST FOR COMING, BUT FOR WHAT YOU DO, WHAT YOU HAVE DONE.

IF PEOPLE WILL WATCH THESE MOVIES, YOU ARE THE EPITOME OF HOW EVERYBODY SHOULD THINK.

BUT YOU PUT YOUR CAREER ON THE LINE TO MAKE SOMETHING AS GOOD AS IT POSSIBLY COULD BE.

AND NO MATTER HOW LONG IT TOOK YOU, YOU WERE GOING TO KEEP DOING IT.

AND YOU HAD AN INCREDIBLE OUTCOME AND BROUGHT ALL THESE THINGS TO PEOPLE'S ATTENTION THAT THEY MIGHT NEVER REALIZED BEFORE.

AND WE HOPE YOU KEEP DOING IT.

BILOTT: THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

AND, YOU KNOW, AS A LAWYER, IT'S REALLY I HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF HAVING AMAZING CLIENTS, MR. TENNANT AND HIS FAMILY AND THOSE FOLKS THAT REALLY GAVE US THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THIS.

KELLAR: HE DID PASS AWAY.

YEAH, IN THE FILM THERE'S HIS FUNERAL.

BILOTT: YEAH.

KELLAR: THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

BILOTT: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

KELLAR: YOU'RE A LIVING LEGEND.

BILOTT: THANKS SO MUCH.

IT WAS A PLEASURE TALKING WITH YOU.

JOIN US NEXT WEEK FOR ANOTHER EPISODE OF SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLER RIGHT HERE ON CET.

MAVERICK CAPTIONING SERVICE CIN OH MAVERICKCAPTIONING.COM