TONIGHT ON SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLAR, EDITOR OF AEQAI MAGAZINE AND ART CRITIC DANIEL BROWN.

STAY TUNED, SHOWCASE STARTS RIGHT NOW.

KELLAR: DANNY, GREAT TO SEE YOU.

YOU'RE LOOKING GOOD.

BROWN: BARBARA, GOOD TO SEE YOU, TOO, AS ALWAYS.

THANK YOU.

KELLAR: YOU LEAD SUCH AN INTERESTING LIFE AND YOU DO SOMETHING THAT'S INTERESTING, BUT VERY HELPFUL TO THE ART.

TELL US ABOUT, FIRST OF ALL, YOUR MAGAZINE.

BROWN: WELL, IT'S CALLED AEQAI, WHICH IS SPELLED A-E-Q-A-I, WWW DOT COM.

AND A FRIEND OF MINE FOUNDED IT 15 YEARS AGO.

AND HE WANTED TO COVER JUST SMALL NONPROFITS.

AND HE THEN LEFT TOWN AND I TOOK OVER AS EDITOR, DECIDED TO BUILD IT.

AND WE NOW HAVE 70,000 REGULAR MONTHLY READERS AND 500,000 PLUS PAGES.

SO IT'S REALLY DOING WELL REGIONALLY AND NATIONALLY NOW BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SEND A LINK AND THEN YOU GET NEW READERS AND ALL THAT STUFF IN THE WORLD OF SOCIAL MEDIA, I'M NOT THAT GOOD AT, BUT OUR WRITERS ARE THANKFULLY.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SO THEY WRITE JUST ARTICLES ABOUT ART?

BROWN: WELL, WE DO MAINLY REVIEWS OF ART EXHIBITIONS IN THE NONPROFIT WORLD FROM BIG PLACES LIKE MUSEUMS TO SMALL ONES LIKE WADEPOOL OR KENNEDY HEIGHTS ART CENTER.

AND WE ALSO COVER THE COMMERCIAL GALLERIES BOTH HERE AND WE HAVE TWO CRITICS IN NEW YORK, TWO IN L.A. AND ONE IN SEATTLE, ONE IN BOSTON.

AND WE COVER THE VENICE BIENNALE WHENEVER IT'S ON.

AND WHEN THE WRITERS GO AWAY, THEY CAN REVIEW IN OTHER CITIES AND THE PRESS OFFICES HONOR US BECAUSE THEY KNOW US BY NOW, TOO.

SO THE MAIN THING IS REVIEWING.

WE DO SOME ART JOURNALISM, ONE A MONTH, WHICH IS A FEATURE STORY OR SOMETIMES A PROFILE OF AN ARTIST WHO'S COME TO OUR ATTENTION FOR SOME SPECIFIC REASON.

BUT THE MAIN THING IS REVIEWS.

AND WE THINK THAT CONTEMPORARY ART IN PARTICULAR IS VERY DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND.

ART IN NON-VERBAL LANGUAGE AND WHAT YOU SEE ISN'T NECESSARILY WHAT YOU GET.

I REMEMBER WHEN SOMEBODY ASKED ME DURING THE MAPPLETHORPE CRISIS, YOU KNOW, "WHAT IS THIS PHOTOGRAPH SAYING?"

I SAID, "IT DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING.

IT'S A PIECE OF PAPER."

AND SO WHAT PEOPLE NEED IS INTERPRETATION AND ANALYSIS.

AND THAT'S WHAT OUR CRITICISM IS.

AND IF YOU THINK OF IT AS A FORM OF TRANSLATION, IT'S LANGUAGE OF IMAGES, AND WE TRANSLATE IT INTO WORDS AND ANALYSIS BOTH SO PEOPLE HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT THEY MIGHT SEE AND WHY.

BECAUSE MOST OF THE INSTITUTIONS THEMSELVES AND PRESS RELEASES AND WHICH WILL GIVE YOU BACKGROUND ON THE ARTIST AND A LITTLE TAKE ON THE ART, BUT THAT'S MARKETING, WHICH IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM CRITICISM.

KELLAR: YEAH, YEAH.

YEAH.

WE DON'T GET THAT MUCH OF COURSE NEWSPAPERS ARE DYING.

BROWN: I KNOW.

KELLAR: AND UNFORTUNATELY, THE FIRST SECTIONS THEY PARE DOWN ARE THE ARTS.

BROWN: ISN'T IT ALWAYS THAT WAY?

KELLAR: YEAH.

BROWN: AND ALTHOUGH I THINK THE LEADERSHIP OF ARTS IS HIGHER THAN THEY THINK.

WE KNOW THAT FROM LIKE AEQAI, IF WE HAVE 70,000 READERS AND WE'RE TINY, THEN YOU'RE MISSING A BIG AUDIENCE.

YOU COME INTO THAT TOO WITH WHAT YOU'RE DOING.

KELLAR: YEAH.

YEAH.

AND EVEN IN SCHOOLS WHEN THEY HAVE TO CUT THE BUDGET, THE FIRST THING THEY CUT OUT IS THE ARTS.

BROWN: ALWAYS THE ARTS.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SO IT'S GREAT THAT YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING.

NOW DO YOU SUBSCRIBE TO THIS?

BROWN: YES, BUT IT'S FREE.

IF YOU GO ONTO THE SITE, WHICH AGAIN IS WWW.AEQAI.COM, THERE'S A CLICK SUBSCRIBE AND JUST ADDS YOUR EMAIL TO IT AND THEN YOU'LL GET IT EVERY MONTH.

KELLAR: SO HOW DO YOU MAKE IT, HOW DO YOU EARN MONEY?

BROWN: WELL, WE ARE A NONPROFIT AND WE MAINLY GET MONEY FROM GOOD FRIENDS OF THE ARTS WHO ARE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF THE NEED FOR OUR CRITICISM.

WE GET SOME GRANTS FROM THE USUAL GRANT SOURCES AS WELL, BUT MAINLY IT'S FRIENDS OF THE ARTS.

SOME ARE FRIENDS OF MINE, SOME ARE FRIENDS OF BOARD MEMBERS, WRITERS, ETC.

AND WE'RE A PRETTY LEAN, MEAN OPERATION.

WE'RE VERY SMALL.

NOBODY WORKS HERE FULL TIME, BUT WE MAKE A BIG IMPACT AND WE KNOW THE NEED FOR OUR CRITICISM IS GREAT JUST BY THE NUMBER OF WHO READ IT.

THE MAJORITY OF OUR READERS ARE YOUNGER, MILLENNIALS AND EVEN YOUNGER.

KELLAR: REALLY?

BROWN: YEAH, WE WERE QUITE SURPRISED.

YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY IN ONE OF THE FOUNDATIONS SAID, "HOW ARE YOU GETTING THESE MILLENNIALS?"

AND I SAID, "I HAVE NO IDEA."

KELLAR: I KNOW BECAUSE EVERYBODY IS STRIVING FOR YOUNGER PEOPLE.

BROWN: I THINK THAT THEY'RE -- WHEN THEY'RE EDUCATED IN COLLEGE ART SCHOOL, THAT THEY LEARN A LOT OF THEORY.

AND A LOT OF OUR WRITERS KNOW A LOT OF THEORY.

AND SO IT'S A MATCH IN THAT WAY.

AND, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THESE -- WE'RE MORE NICHE PUBLICATION.

WE'RE NOT TRYING TO APPEAL TO EVERYONE, WHICH A GENERAL NEWSPAPER WOULD.

WE'RE TRYING TO APPEAL TO A REASONABLY INFORMED ART AUDIENCE WHO WANTS TO KNOW MORE.

AND THEY'RE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, ALL OVER THE WORLD.

KELLAR: OBVIOUSLY, DEPENDING ON YOU -- AND HOW DO YOU TRACK THE NUMBERS YOU HAVE?

BROWN: WELL, THE GOOGLE ANALYTICS DOES IT FOR US AND THEY TELL US A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF INFORMATION ABOUT WHERE -- IT'S CERTAINLY WHERE THE READERS ARE.

BUT THE DEMOGRAPHICS, THEY HELP US SOME AND WE DO SOME ON OUR OWN.

KELLAR: WELL, YOU HAVE DEMOGRAPHICS THAT -- THAT'S SOMETHING THE BALLET WOULD LOVE TO HAVE MORE YOUNG PEOPLE.

BROWN: WELL, EVERYBODY DOES NOW.

I REMEMBER WHEN WE WERE YOUNG, AND EVERYBODY WAS WANTING US TOO KELLAR: BACK IN THE OLDEN DAYS.

BROWN: YES.

BECAUSE I REMEMBER WHEN THE ART MUSEUM FOUNDED YEARS AGO THE YOUNG FRIENDS OF THE ART MUSEUM AND ASKED ME TO BE A MEMBER.

I SAID, "I'M 50 YEARS OLD.

I'M NOT YOUNG ANYMORE.

YOU KNOW, YOU NEED TWO GENERATIONS BEYOND ME."

BUT AND THEY'VE DONE A GOOD JOB, BY THE WAY, VERY.

IT'S AMAZING HOW MUCH THEY'VE DONE WITH OPENING IT UP TO NEW AUDIENCES AND MORE DIVERSE AUDIENCES.

AND THEY'VE ADDED THIS ART CLIMB, WHICH IS -- KELLAR: THE STAIR, YEAH.

BROWN: YEAH, IT GOES STRAIGHT UP THE HILL IN EDEN PARK, YOU CAN WALK AND THEY'VE HAD A SCULPTURE THERE.

KELLAR: THAT'S FOR YOUNG PEOPLE, DEFINITELY.

BROWN: LOTS OF YOUNG PEOPLE.

AND THE PARTIES.

ARE THEY CALLED PARTIES IN THE PARK?

THEY ARE PARTIES IN THE ART MUSEUM THAT START LATE ARE VERY POPULAR AND THEY BRING NEW MEMBERS TOO.

KELLAR: IT'S RIGHT ACROSS FROM THE NEW BALLET BUILDING.

BROWN: YES, IT IS.

I KNOW, IT'S AMAZING.

THAT'S YOUR THING.

YOU KNOW?

KELLAR: YEAH.

MY HUSBAND LARRY RAISED THE $30.8 MILLION TO BUILD THE BUILDING.

BROWN: CONGRATULATIONS.

KELLAR: SO HE DRIVES ME PAST THERE EVERY -- OFTEN TO SEE THE PROGRESS.

WE'RE VERY PROUD OF IT.

BROWN: YOU SHOULD BE BECAUSE, AGAIN, WE BOTH REMEMBER WHEN THE BALLET WAS FOUNDED, KELLAR: OH, WE DO, YEAH.

BROWN: AND THAT'S BEEN A HUGE SUCCESS.

BUT THE YOUNGER PEOPLE ARE THERE.

AND OF COURSE, THE VISUAL ARTS, MOST OF THEM HAVE A FREE DAY WHEN YOU CAN GET IN WITHOUT PAYING AND WHEN YOU CAN STAY ALL DAY.

AND SO THERE'S AN ADVANTAGE THERE FOR THE VISUAL ARTS ONCE THEY CAN GET THEM IN THE DOORS.

BUT THE TAFT MUSEUM, TOO, THEY'VE DONE AN INCREDIBLE JOB GETTING YOUNGER AUDIENCES AND THEY DO A VARIETY OF SHOWS.

LIKE RIGHT NOW THEY HAVE A HISTORY OF FOOTWEAR THROUGH THE STUART WEITZMAN COLLECTION.

AND IT'S VERY POPULAR.

KELLAR: YEAH, GOOD.

BROWN: I'VE SEEN MORE OF THEM HEADED TOWARDS FASHION AND THINGS LIKE THAT AS AN ART FORM.

YEAH.

KELLAR: THE ART MUSEUM IS HAVING AN ART EXHIBIT IN THE FALL OF JEWELRY OWNED BY KIM KLOSTERMAN.

BROWN: YES, SHE'S VERY GOOD AT THAT.

KELLAR: YEAH, SHE'S GREAT.

I WAS JUST TALKING TO HER LAST NIGHT AND THAT'S GOING TO BE EXCITING AND FUN.

AND JEWELRY IS ART.

BROWN: OF COURSE IT IS.

MANY THINGS THAT USED TO BE CONSIDERED CRAFT, LIKE QUILTS AND JEWELRY, YOU KNOW, OR FABRIC, ET CETERA, ARE PROBABLY LEGITIMATE ART FORMS.

IT DEPENDED WHO WAS DEFINING IT, DIDN'T IT.

KELLAR: BUT TELL ME WHO'S -- WHERE YOU WOULD FIND YARD GOODS IS WHAT WE USED TO SAY, A YARD GOODS STORE.

THERE AREN'T ANY, BECAUSE -- BUT IT ALSO IMPLIES THAT PEOPLE KNOW WHAT A YARDSTICK IS TOO.

TRY ASKING A YOUNG PERSON THAT.

EXACTLY.

WHAT OTHER VENTURES?

YOU'RE SORT OF THE RENAISSANCE MAN.

BROWN: WELL, YOU KNOW, I ALSO CURATE ONE SHOW A YEAR AT CINCINNATI ART GALLERIES DOWNTOWN.

THE SHOWS ARE GENERALLY BASED ON THE IDEA OF THE AMERICAN SUBLIME, WHICH IS THE HUDSON RIVER SCHOOL PAINTERS LOOKED AT THE LAND IN UPSTATE NEW YORK AND SAW THIS AWESOME BEAUTY.

THE EUROPEAN IDEA OF THE SUBLIME IS MORE OF THE OLD RUINS AND LOOKING BACK TO CLASSICAL ROME AND GREECE.

AND SO I DO THE PURE LANDSCAPE SHOWS.

THERE'S NO PEOPLE, NO ANIMALS, NO COWS IN THE PAINTINGS AND DO WANT A YEAR AND THEY'RE VERY POPULAR.

AND SPEAKING OF CINCINNATI ART GALLERIES, DURING THE COVID YEAR THEY ARE DOING UNBELIEVABLY WELL.

THEY HAVE A HUGE ONLINE PRESENCE.

AND SO EVERYBODY DIDN'T SUFFER DURING COVID.

IT WAS INTERESTING, YOU KNOW.

KELLAR: HOW DID YOU COPE WITH IT?

BROWN: WE JUST -- WE'VE HAD, AGAIN, LUCK WITH GOOD FRIENDS.

WHEN EVERYTHING WAS SHUT DOWN?

KELLAR: WELL, YEAH, WELL, HOW CAN YOU?

THERE'S NOTHING TO CRITICIZE.

BROWN: WELL, I'LL TELL YOU WHAT WE DID.

I ASKED ALL THE WRITERS TO PICK ONE ARTIST LIVING OR DEAD AND TELL US WHY THAT ARTIST IS IMPORTANT.

THAT WAS ONE ISSUE.

THE SECOND ISSUE WAS PICK A WOMAN ARTIST LIVING OR DEAD AND TELL US WHY SHE'S IMPORTANT OR HER WORK IS.

AND THE THIRD ONE COINCIDED EXACTLY WITH THE PEAK OF THE BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTS.

AND THAT ISSUE WAS TO PICK ONE AFRICAN-AMERICAN ARTIST AND TELL US WHY HE OR SHE IS IMPORTANT.

THAT ONE BROUGHT US THOUSANDS OF NEW READERS, BY THE WAY.

AND I THINK A LOT OF THE INSTITUTIONS DURING COVID BEGAN TO UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO SHOW WORK MADE BY UNDERSERVED POPULATIONS.

I THINK THE ART MUSEUM IS TRYING THE HARDEST OF THE VISUAL ARTS.

THE CAC HAS DONE SOME OF THIS ALL ALONG.

THE TAFT DOES TOO, EVEN THOUGH THEIR COLLECTION'S MAINLY EUROPEAN.

SO THEY HAVE THE DUNCANSON ARTIST RESIDENCE PROGRAM, TOO.

SO WE JUST DECIDED TO VARY THE FARE AND GO INTO OUR HISTORY AND LET OUR READERS KNOW WHAT OUR WRITERS THINK MATTERS WITH OUR THEME BASED ISSUES.

AND THEN SOME SHOWS BEGAN TO COME AGAIN.

AND THAT'S HOW WE GOT THROUGH.

KELLAR: YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY ASKED ME JUST YESTERDAY, WHO ARE MY -- WHO'S MY FAVORITE ARTIST OF ALL TIME?

AND I HAD TWO FAVORITE ARTISTS.

WHAT ARE -- WHO ARE YOUR FAVORITES?

BROWN: OH, GOODNESS, THAT'S A TOUGH QUESTION.

KELLAR: OK, IF YOU COULD HAVE A PAINTING NOW, REGARDLESS OF PRICE, JUST WHAT ARTISTS OR ARTWORK WOULD YOU WANT?

BROWN: I WOULD WANT A PAINTING FROM THE NORTHERN SONG DYNASTY IN CHINA, WHICH IS ABOUT 11TH, 12TH CENTURY, MAYBE A LITTLE EARLIER, AND ONE FROM THE SOUTHERN SONG.

MY MASTER'S DEGREES IN ASIAN ART.

OK?

KELLAR: OH, OK. BROWN: LET'S PICK A LOCAL ARTIST.

I THINK WE HAVE A HUGE AMOUNT OF TALENT HERE.

AND AMONG OUR BEST, OUR BUKANG Y. KIM, WHO WAS KOREAN BORN AND SHE JUST HAD A SHOW.

HER SHOW IN DAYTON ART MUSEUM IS STILL UP NOW.

SHE'S HAD ONE OF THE ART MUSEUM.

SHE'S SHOWN ALL OVER THE WORLD.

I'D PICK HER.

I'D PICK COLE CAROTHERS, WHO DOES SORT OF SERENE BUT CEREBRAL AND SOMETIMES PASTORAL LANDSCAPES.

HIS WORK HAS GENTLED A BIT OVER THE YEARS.

AND I'D PICK VALERIE SHESKO, WHO DOES LANDSCAPES INSPIRED BY THE HUDSON RIVER, ABSTRACT EXPRESSIONISM, AND CHINESE PAINTING.

IF I COULD GET ANYBODY IN THE WORLD, I'D PROBABLY PICK EGON SCHIELE WHO WAS -- KELLAR: OH, ONE OF MY TWO IS GUSTAV KLIMT?

BROWN: WE'RE IN THE SAME CATEGORY THEN.

KELLAR: YEAH.

BROWN: SAME SCHOOL.

KELLAR: I GOT TO SEE THE WOMAN IN GOLD TWICE AT -- BROWN: WHERE IS IT?

KELLAR: IT'S IN NEW YORK AT THE LAUDER, RON LAUDER.

IS IT RON OR IS IT HIS BROTHER?

ANYWAY.

YEAH HE -- THAT WHOLE STORY OF HOW THAT WAS -- BROWN: SO THAT'S AT THE MET, RIGHT?

NO?

KELLAR: NO, NO, NO.

HE HAS HIS OWN GALLERY.

IT'S CALLED THE NEUE, N-I-E-U?

BROWN: SO IT'S BASED -- KELLAR: IT'S HIS OWN GALLERY, HIS OWN COLLECTION, BUT HE BOUGHT THAT PARTICULAR PAINTING BECAUSE IT TOOK A LONG TIME FOR THE RIGHTFUL -- IT WAS THE NAZIS TOOK IT.

BROWN: I KNOW.

KELLAR: AND AND SO THEM NIECE BROUGHT THE LAWSUIT.

BROWN: SHE'S THE WOMAN IN LA, ISN'T SHE?

THE OLD WOMAN, SHE FINALLY GOT IT BACK.

KELLAR: YEAH, AND I FOLLOWED THAT AS IT PROGRESSED BECAUSE THERE EVERY MONTH OR SO OR OFTEN THERE'D BE AN ARTICLE ABOUT HOW IT WAS GOING WITH THIS LAWSUIT, WHICH SHE WON.

BROWN: THE PAINTING WAS OF HER GREAT AUNT, WASN'T IT?

KELLAR: YES.

BROWN: MISS BLOCH-BAUER, YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

KELLAR: THAT WAS HER AUNT.

AND SO SHE FINALLY DID WIN, BUT IT'S -- RON LAUDER, ESTEE LAUDER, BOUGHT -- STARTED HIS OWN MUSEUM AND HE BOUGHT THAT PAINTING FOR HIS MUSEUM.

BROWN: I FORGOT THAT.

YEAH.

KELLAR: BUT HE -- I THINK HE ALSO, HE PAID I THINK IT WAS $136 MILLION.

IT WOULD SEEM LIKE KIND OF A LOT MORE THAN THAT.

BUT I THINK HE DID IT TO MAKE A POINT.

BROWN: I DO TOO.

THAT'S A LOT OF COSMETICS.

KELLAR: THAT'S A LOT.

I MET ESTEE LAUDER BROWN: DID YOU?

KELLAR: YES, I WAS AT A -- BLOOMINGDALE'S USED TO HAVE THESE OPENINGS QUITE OFTEN.

BROWN: THE LITTLE BOUTIQUES.

KELLAR: YEAH.

THEY WERE SPECIFIC DESIGNERS.

AND SO SINCE IT'S FEDERATED, YOU KNOW, IT WAS BLOOMINGDALE'S.

IT USED TO BE HERE.

AND ANYWAY, I ONE OF THESE PARTIES AND THIS GIRL INTRODUCED HERSELF AND SHE SAID HELLO.

I FORGET, I KNOW HER FIRST NAME.

"I'M LAUDER.

AND THIS IS MY MOTHER IN LAW, ESTEE."

AND I THOUGHT, "OH, MY GOD, I'M MEETING THE ACTUAL."

BROWN: THAT'S FUNNY.

YEAH.

KELLAR: YEAH, I WAS MORE THRILLED THAN IF IT HAD BEEN SOME MOVIE STAR BECAUSE -- BROWN: DIFFERENT PRIORITIES.

KELLAR: SHE WAS A SMART, SMART WOMAN.

BROWN: UNBELIEVABLY.

KELLAR: BUT ANYWAY, HIS PAINTINGS ARE ALL IN THE SCHIELE SCHOOL.

BROWN: SHEILA.

SHEILA.

KELLAR: SORRY, SHEILA SCHOOL, I NEVER GET THAT RIGHT.

THE SHEILA SCHOOL AND THE KLIMT.

SO WHEN YOU'RE IN NEW YORK, GO SEE HIM.

BROWN: THAT'S GOOD TO KNOW.

YOU KNOW, KLIMT MADE TWO PAINTINGS CALLED THE KISS AND ONE OF THEM IS IN THE COLUMBUS MUSEUM OF ART.

BUT I THINK PEOPLE DON'T KNOW.

A COUPLE OF NAMED SIRAK IN COLUMBUS HAD COLLECTED IMPRESSIONIST AND POST IMPRESSIONIST PAINTING EARLY BEFORE IT WAS SUPER EXPENSIVE AND THEY OWNED THE OTHER KISS, SO IT'S IN COLUMBUS NOW.

AND IT'S QUITE A PAINTING.

YEAH.

KELLAR: YEAH.

BROWN: I MEAN, MOST OF MY TASTES RUN TO MODERN AND CONTEMPORARY.

GIVEN A CHOICE, I'D PROBABLY PICK A GREAT JACKSON POLLOCK TOO.

KELLAR: YEAH.

SEE, I -- NO, THIS IS WHERE WE DIFFER.

BROWN: NOT FOR YOU?

OK. KELLAR: NOT FOR ME.

I LIKE THE OLD STUFF, SERGEANT.

BROWN: YOU LIKE REPRESENTATIONAL ART, I THINK.

KELLAR: YEAH.

YEAH, I THINK HIS PAINTINGS -- BROWN: HIS PORTRAITS ARE UNBELIEVABLE.

KELLAR: SO WITH ALL THESE CHOICES AND THANK GOD FOR MUSEUMS SO THOSE OF US WHO CAN'T BUY THOSE PAINTINGS.

BROWN: WELL, MUSEUMS GENERALLY COLLECT WHAT THEY THINK IS THE BEST OF THE BEST.

SO IT'S SORT OF PRE-SIFTED FOR US, WHICH I APPRECIATE.

AND OF COURSE, MUSEUMS ARE DEPENDENT ON THE COLLECTORS.

KELLAR: YEAH.

BROWN: AND WE DON'T HAVE AS MANY ART COLLECTORS HERE AS WE DID.

IT'S NEVER BEEN A BIG COLLECTING CITY, BUT THERE'S LESS OF IT.

BUT I THINK THAT WHEN YOUNGER PEOPLE PROBABLY HIT THEIR MID 40S OR EARLY 50S, IF THEY HAVE ENOUGH EXTRA INCOME, BECAUSE ART COLLECTING IS EXPENSIVE, THEY BEGIN TO WANT ART TOO.

BECAUSE I HAVE A GODSON WHO IS A BIG COLLECTOR NOW AND HE'S JUST ABOUT 40, AND HIS WIFE AND THEY LOVE IT.

SO, YOU HOPE THAT THAT WILL HAPPEN.

KELLAR: DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER VENTURES CURRENTLY?

BROWN: NO, THAT'S MAINLY WHAT I'M DOING NOW.

KELLAR: THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE DOING NOW.

BROWN: I AM.

I WRITE BOOK REVIEWS FOR AEQAI.

I'VE NEVER WRITTEN BOOK REVIEWS BEFORE, AND I READ ALL THE TIME.

SO SOMEBODY SAID, "HOW DID YOU END UP WRITING BOOK REVIEWS FOR AEKAI?"

I SAID, "I KNOW THE EDITOR."

[LAUGHTER] KELLAR: YEAH, THAT'S GREAT.

YEAH SO WHAT CURRENT BOOKS WOULD BE GOOD?

WOULD YOU RECOMMEND?

BROWN: THE BOOKS I'VE READ RECENTLY, THERE'S A NEW BOOK OF ESSAYS BY JOAN DIDION AND THEY'RE PROBABLY HER LAST AND THEY'VE BEEN PUBLISHED BEFORE.

BUT I'VE LONG THOUGHT THAT SHE IS THE MOST BRILLIANT PERSON IN THE WORLD.

I REALLY DO.

SHE HAS A BRAIN THAT IS AWESOME TO WATCH IN ACTION.

SO I RECOMMEND THAT.

THERE'S A VERY GOOD NEW BOOK CALLED THE SMASH-UP BY A YOUNG WRITER NAMED ALI BENJAMIN.

IT'S ABOUT HOW -- IT'S BASED ON ETHAN FROME, THE OLD EDITH WHARTON NOVEL.

SO IF YOU'VE READ THAT, YOU KIND OF KNOW SORT OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

BUT SHE MAKES THE CHARACTERS CONTEMPORARY.

AND IT'S ABOUT HOW CONTEMPORARY FEMINISM AFFECTS AND MAY RUIN A MARRIAGE.

AND IN THAT SENSE, IT'S VERY CONTEMPORARY.

A LOT OF CONTEMPORARY FICTION IS DEALING WITH THE STORIES OF NEW IMMIGRANTS, MAINLY COMING FROM SOUTH OR CENTRAL AMERICA AND HOW THEY MAKE IT HERE, THE STRUGGLE ITSELF.

THERE'S A LOT OF NEW AFRICAN-AMERICAN WRITERS AND AFRICAN, MAINLY WOMEN, WHO THEIR WRITING IS UNBELIEVABLE.

AND THE THIRD CATEGORY WOULD BE WHAT I CALL NOVELS ABOUT NEWLY EMPOWERED WOMEN.

THOSE ARE THE THREE MOST COMMON BEING WRITTEN ABOUT TODAY.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF NEW TALENT, AS THERE IS IN THE ART.

AND SO THERE'S PLENTY TO READ.

I READ A LOT OF NOVELS FROM EUROPE AND ASIA AND AFRICA JUST BECAUSE IT'S INTERESTING, YOU KNOW.

KELLAR: YEAH.

DO YOU TRAVEL?

BROWN: I CAN'T MUCH ANYMORE BECAUSE -- KELLAR: YEAH, THAT'S -- BROWN: I HAVE SOME PHYSICAL DISABILITIES, IT'S JUST TOO LIMITING.

KELLAR: YEAH.

WELL, I'VE SEEN MOST OF WHAT I EVER WANTED TO SEE AND WE TEND TO GO BACK TO THE SAME PLACES.

BROWN: SURE.

YOU COLLECT VENETIAN GLASS, DON'T YOU?

KELLAR: OH, YES, I DO.

YEAH, I DO.

THAT'S MY -- IT'S A GREAT LOVE.

WE GO TO VENICE EVERY YEAR.

BROWN: I REMEMBER.

YEAH, LUCKY YOU.

YES.

KELLAR: YES.

ANYBODY NEEDS A TOUR GUIDE OF VENICE, JUST GIVE ME CALL.

I CAN LET THEM KNOW THE RESTAURANTS, WHERE TO WALK.

YEAH.

IT'S WE REALLY, REALLY LOVE IT.

AND I'M GLAD I GOT TO SEE ALL THAT I DID.

BROWN: SO AM I. KELLAR: I JUST DON'T WANT TO GET ON ANYMORE 7, 8, 9 HOUR FLIGHTS.

BROWN: WELL AND MOST OF MY FRIENDS ARE SAYING WHEN THEY TRAVEL THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WALK A LOT AND THEIR KNEES CAN'T.

THEY COME HOME AND SAY, "MY KNEES HURT, MY BACK HURTS."

BUT WITH A COMPUTER YOU CAN TRAVEL VIRTUALLY.

AND I FIND READING TAKES ME ANYWHERE.

I'VE ALSO TAKEN THE LISTEN TO BACH TWO HOURS EVERY DAY.

KELLAR: REALLY?

BROWN: IT'S MY NEW THING.

YEAH.

KELLAR: WOW, THAT'S GREAT.

HOW MANY HOURS DO YOU THINK EXIST OF BACH?

BROWN: OH, ENDLESS.

KELLAR: ENDLESS?

BROWN: I CANNOT BELIEVE REALLY HE WROTE.

YEAH.

KELLAR: LIKE PICASSO, MY GOD.

BROWN: THEY'RE VERY SIMILAR, YEAH.

KELLAR: YOU KNOW WHO ELSE I DISCOVERED A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO WAS SO PROLIFIC.

WE WERE IN THE LOUVER AND THEY WERE HAVING A SPECIAL ON VAN GOGH.

AND IT WAS ROOM AFTER ROOM AFTER ROOM.

BROWN: YEAH, THERE'S MORE THAN PEOPLE REALIZE.

KELLAR: I THOUGHT -- AND SUNFLOWERS.

THERE WAS A WHOLE ROOM FULL OF JUST SUNFLOWERS.

BROWN: WELL, HAVE YOU BEEN TO THAT PART OF FRANCE WHERE HE LIVED NEAR ARLES AND ST REMY DE PROVENCE?

KELLAR: NO.

BROWN: WELL, THE LIGHT ACTUALLY SEEMS YELLOW.

WHEN YOU SEE IT, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHY HE PAINTED SO MUCH YELLOW.

YEAH.

YEAH.

KELLAR: SORT OF YELLOWISH.

DANNY, DO YOU SEE A DIFFERENCE IN THE PERSPECTIVE OF OLDER VERSUS YOUNGER WRITERS?

BROWN: I'M GLAD YOU ASKED ME THAT BECAUSE THE ANSWER IS REALLY YES.

IT'S AN AMAZING DIFFERENCE.

I THINK OLDER WRITERS, AND BY OLDER, I MEAN OVER 60 LET'S SAY.

WHEN WE WERE EDUCATED, IF WE WERE LUCKY ENOUGH TO GO TO COLLEGE, OUR EDUCATION WAS BASED ON CRITICAL THINKING AND TO THINK CRITICALLY AND ANALYZE CRITICALLY.

AND IT WAS BASED ON ENLIGHTENMENT THINKING AND THEN IN CLASSICAL.

WE ALL HAD CLASSICAL EDUCATIONS.

THE EDUCATION IS MORE BASED ON FEELINGS NOW AND MORE INCLUSIVITY AND THE YOUNGER PEOPLE EXPECT DIVERSITY WHEREVER THEY GO.

AND THE RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN WOMEN AND MEN ARE FAR MORE EQUAL AND SO THEY'RE EDUCATED SOMEWHAT DIFFERENTLY AND SO THEY WRITE DIFFERENTLY.

THE OTHER THING IS THE ENTIRE DIGITAL WORLD, WHICH OLDER PEOPLE -- REMEMBER WHEN WE ALL HAD TO SIGN UP ONLINE FOR A VACCINE AND YOU HAD TO HOPE SOMEBODY WOULD HELP YOU WITH THE COMPUTER, MOST OF US ANYWAY.

THEY TAKE IT FOR GRANTED.

AND THERE'S AN ENTIRE WORLD ON THE COMPUTER THAT IS TRULY A VIRTUAL WORLD.

AND THERE ARE ENTIRE ART SHOWS NOW BASED ON WORLDS CREATED ON THE COMPUTER.

IT'S NOT A SIMULATION OF THE OUTSIDE WORLD, IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT WORLD AND OUR YOUNGER WRITERS UNDERSTAND THAT STUFF AND OUR OLDER ONES DON'T.

AND I'D SAY THE DIFFERENCE STARTS WITH THE BEGINNING OF WHAT'S KNOWN AS INSTALLATION ART AND VIDEO ART.

AND IN OUR DAY, MAINLY ART WAS PAINTING, SCULPTURE, PRINTMAKING, DRAWING.

THERE'S LESS OF ALL THAT.

INSTALLATION REALLY MEANS THAT YOU WORK WITH THE ARCHITECTURE OF A SPACE AND THE ART YOU MAKE FOR IT IS MADE FOR THE SPACE.

SO IT TRANSFORMS THE SPACE.

AND VIDEO'S JUST, YOU KNOW, THE NEW TECHNOLOGY WHERE AN ENTIRE VIDEO BECOMES THE WORK OF ART.

AND THERE ARE COLLECTORS LIKE ANDY STILLPASS AND THEY COLLECT VIDEOS, VIDEO ART.

SO THOSE ARE ALL NEW AND IT'S ALL ELECTRONICALLY BASED.

AND IT'S -- I WOULDN'T KNOW HOW TO REVIEW IT.

SO WE NEED WRITERS OF ALL DIFFERENT GENERATIONS.

OUR WRITERS RANGE FROM 94 TO 22.

KELLAR: THAT'S A GOOD RANGE.

BROWN: AND WE NEED -- WE TRY TO HAVE A PRETTY EQUAL SHARE OF WOMEN AND MEN.

I THINK WOMEN AND MEN OFTEN STILL DO THINK DIFFERENTLY.

AND SO THE ROLES OF WOMEN HAVE CHANGED.

THE ROLES OF MINORITIES IN AMERICAN LIFE ARE CHANGING SO THAT THEIR WORLD IS DIFFERENT.

THEREFORE THEY THINK DIFFERENTLY.

AND THAT'S WHAT PART OF WHAT MAKES RUNNING AEQIA INTERESTING IS DECIDING WHO SHOULD WRITE WHICH STORY.

WHAT WRITERS WRITE FOR THIS OR THAT?

BECAUSE I ONCE ASSIGNED A MUCH OLDER WRITER, WHO IS NO LONGER ALIVE, TO SHOW AT THE WESTIN THAT WAS VERY THEORETICAL AND SHE REALLY DIDN'T GET IT.

AND IT WASN'T HER FAULT.

IT WAS NOBODY'S FAULT.

ALTHOUGH I THINK THAT SOMETIMES IF ART DOESN'T COMMUNICATE WITH ENOUGH PEOPLE, IT'S FAILING.

YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO READ A TON OF THEORY TO UNDERSTAND IT.

KELLAR: IF SOMEBODY HAS TO TELL YOU.

BROWN: YEAH.

DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN TOM WOLFE WROTE A BOOK CALLED THE PAINTED WORD?

KELLAR: YEAH.

BROWN: AND THAT WAS ABOUT THE WORD, AGAIN, WAS ALL THE THEORY.

AND IF YOU DIDN'T READ THE THEORY AND DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE ART, THEN THE ART WAS FAILING BECAUSE YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE TO READ THEORY.

AND ART SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE HOMEWORK.

AND THAT CAN BE A FLAW IN CONTEMPORARY ART IN GENERAL IS THAT PEOPLE JUST LOOK AT IT AND SAY, "I DON'T GET IT."

AND THEN THEY GET ALIENATED AND THEN THEY SAY -- THEY LEAVE.

AND SO THE EDUCATION DEPARTMENTS IN THE MUSEUMS IN PARTICULAR HAVE A LOT THAT THEY NEED -- THEY ARE STILL -- THEY ARE DOING NOW AND THEY'RE GOING TO DO MORE BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO LOSE YOUR OLDER AUDIENCE THEY HAVE MORE MONEY AND ARE RETIRING IN THE CHASE FOR THE YOUNGER.

AND AMERICA TENDS TO DO THAT.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

YEAH, YOU MENTIONED TOM WOLFE, BONFIRE OF THE VANITIES WAS MY -- BROWN: IT'S A GREAT BOOK.

KELLAR: A GREAT BOOK.

YEAH.

BROWN: BUT HE WAS HERE ONCE GIVING A TALK AT THE MERCANTILE LIBRARY.

KELLAR: THE NIEHOFF LECTURES.

BROWN: YES, AND I WAS ON THE BOARD OF THEN AND I HAPPENED TO HAVE A MEAL WITH HIM AND MENTIONED THAT I WROTE ART CRITICISM.

HE SAID, "WHY DO YOU PEOPLE WRITE THAT CRAP?

PARDON ME."

AND I SAID, "I DON'T PERSONALLY."

BUT IT'S THE JARGON AND THE JARGON AND WITH WHAT'S KNOWN AS POSTMODERNISM IN ART.

KELLAR: RIGHT.

BROWN: THERE'S ADDITIONAL JARGON THAT YOU GET THIS SOMETIMES, "WE'RE THE IN PEOPLE AND YOU'RE THE OUT PEOPLE.

IF YOU DON'T GET IT, TOBAD."

AND THE ARTS SUFFER A BIT FROM THAT, MORE SO ON CONTEMPORARY ART THAN OTHERS.

AND THEY NEED TO TRY HARDER THEN TO MAKE SURE THE AUDIENCE UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

KELLAR: SOME OF THOSE WRITERS, THOUGH FAMOUS FOR WRITERS, ARE NOT GOOD SPEAKERS.

BROWN: DON'T YOU THINK, YEAH.

KELLAR: NIEHOFF LECTURE, BUCK NIEHOFF IS A GREAT FRIEND.

HE'S BEEN HERE QUITE A LOT.

AND, YOU KNOW, HIS FIRST BOOK WAS A FUNNY THING HAPPENED ON THE WAY TO THE LLIBRARY.

AND HE TELLS THE TRUTH ABOUT THE PEOPLE.

AND SOME OF THESE WORLD FAMOUS WRITERS ARE NOT GOOD SPEAKERS.

BROWN: WELL, I THINK -- I REMEMBER WHEN I WAS ON THAT BOARD WE DISCUSSED THAT PROBLEM.

AND I THINK THAT SOME OF THE SPEAKERS THINK THEY'RE GOING TO LIKE AN ACADEMIC LIBRARY.

THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS.

AND SO THEY COME AND THEY CAN BE TOO ACADEMIC.

AND SOME PEOPLE JUST ARE BETTER WRITERS THAN SPEAKERS.

KELLAR: EXACTLY.

BROWN: JOYCE CAROL OATES, FOR EXAMPLE, APPARENTLY, SHE WAS TERRIBLE.

YEAH.

KELLAR: YES, HE POINTED THAT OUT.

BROWN: OH, DID HE?

YEAH.

KELLAR: YEAH.

LL, HE SAID, "THE WORST OF ALL OF THEM WAS MARGARET TRUMAN."

BROWN: YEAH, I REMEMBER THAT.

YEAH.

YEAH.

KELLAR: SHE WAS TERRIBLE.

MAY SHE REST IN PEACE.

BROWN: BUT YOU DON'T KNOW UNTIL THEY GET THERE, IS THE PROBLEM.

KELLAR: WELL YOU ARE AS I SAY, THE RENAISSANCE MAN.

BROWN: WELL, THANK YOU.

KELLAR: WE ENJOYED TALKING TO YOU.

AND REMIND PEOPLE HOW TO GET TO YOUR WEBSITE.

BROWN: JUST GO TO YOUR COMPUTER.

JUST CLICK ON WWW.AEQAI.COM/MAIN, GO RIGHT TO THE SITE.

KELLAR: OK, GREAT.

BROWN: THANK YOU, BARBARA.

KELLAR: THANK YOU FOR COMING.

BROWN: MY PLEASURE AS ALWAYS.

KELLAR: IT'S GREAT TO TALK TO YOU.

JOIN US NEXT WEEK FOR ANOTHER EPISODE OF SHOWCASE WITH BARBARA KELLER RIGHT HERE ON CET.

MAVERICK CAPTIONING CIN OH MAVERICKCAPTIONING.COM