>>> TURNING NOW TO SOMEONE WHO WORKED IN TERMS CABINET BUT RESIGNED AFTER JANUARY 6, SAYING EVENTS LEFT HER DEEPLY TROUBLED AND AWAY I SIMPLY CANNOT SET ASIDE.

ELAINE CHAO WAS TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY UNDER THE FORMER PRESIDENT, WHO SHE HAS ALSO CALLED OUT FOR ANTI-ASIAN RHETORIC AFTER HE USED A DERISIVE NAME AND SUGGESTED SHE HAD TIES TO THE CHINESE GOVERNMENT.

CHAO, AS YOU KNOW, HAS LONG IN THE COUNTRY, SENATE MAJORITY LEADER MITCH McCONNELL.

HERE SHE IS NOW WITH WALTER ISAACSON.

>> THANK YOU.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> NICE TO BE WITH YOU.

>> YOU WERE IN PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S CABINET.

YOU RESIGNED RIGHT AFTER THE JANUARY 6th INVASION OF THE CAPITAL SAYING YOU ARE DEEPLY TROUBLED BY IT.

TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS WEEK'S INDICTMENT OF HIM FOR KEEPING CLASSIFIED SECRETS AND VIOLATING THE ESPIONAGE ACT.

>> I THINK THAT IS A LEGAL CASE.

AN INDICTMENT IS AN ALLEGATION, SO LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> WERE YOU SURPRISED WHEN YOU SAW ALL THOSE PICTURES AND THINGS?

SOME WERE SURPRISED THAT MORE REPUBLICANS HAVE NOT TALKED ABOUT IT.

>> I WAS NOT THAT CLOSE TO HIM, SO I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY IDEA OF WHAT HAPPENED.

>> ALL RIGHT.

DO YOU THINK THE INDICTMENT MIGHT AFFECT THE RACE?

>> I HAVE NO IDEA.

>> YOU HAVE BEEN A LONG-TIME REPUBLICAN TRADITIONAL CONSERVATIVE.

YOU WERE THE LABELS LABOR SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH.

YOU'RE MARRIED TO MITCH McCONNELL, THE REPUBLICAN LITTLE WHAT YOU THINK IS HAPPENED TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SINCE THE DAYS OF GEORGE W. BUSH.

>> YOU KNOW, I'M NOT REALLY AN POLITICS.

SOME PEOPLE I BE SURPRISED TO HEAR THAT.

I'M BASICALLY IN PUBLIC SERVICE.

I'M AN IMMIGRANT TO THIS COUNTRY.

I CAME WHEN I WAS EIGHT YEARS OLD.

I KNEW SO LITTLE ABOUT THIS COUNTRY BUT WHAT MY PARENTS IMBUED UPON THEIR DAUGHTERS WAS THAT THIS WAS A WONDERFUL COUNTRY IN WHICH OPPORTUNITIES WOULD ABOUND.

THEY WERE NOT QUITE SURE WHAT THESE OPPORTUNITIES WERE TO BE BUT THEY WERE TOTALLY CONFIDENT THAT AMERICA WAS THE LAND OF HOPE AND OPPORTUNITY.

>> YOU WROTE A VERY MOVING ARTICLE IN THE WASHINGTON POST RECENTLY IN HONOR OF ASIAN AND PACIFIC ISLANDER AMERICAN MONTH AND THE REASON WE SHOULD HAVE A MUSEUM HONORING THAT CULTURE.

>> AS I MENTIONED, I AM AN IMMIGRANT TO THIS COUNTRY.

MY PARENTS LEFT CHINA DURING THE HEIGHT OF THE CIVIL WAR IN 1949.

THEY RELOCATED TO A SMALL ISLAND WHICH IS NOW VERY MUCH IN THE PRESS CALLED TAIWAN, AND MY FATHER TOOK A NATIONAL EXAMINATION.

HE SCORED NUMBER ONE, BROKE ALL THE RECORDS, AND HAVE THE CHANCE TO COME TO AMERICA.

HE WAS ALSO ONE OF THE YOUNGEST SEA CAPTAINS OF HIS TIME AT THE AGE OF 29.

FOR A YOUNG COUPLE WHO HAD NEVER SEEN WHITE PEOPLE OR ANY AMERICANS, IT WAS A TREMENDOUS VOTE OF FAITH AND THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT THIS COUNTRY PROVIDED.

MY FATHER WENT FIRST.

HE WAS ALONE IN AMERICA FOR THREE YEARS, LEAVING BEHIND HIS PREGNANT WIFE AND TWO YOUNG CHILDREN, SO WE DID NOT COME TO AMERICA UNTIL THREE YEARS LATER.

WE ARRIVED IN A BOAT.

IT TOOK 37 DAYS ON THE SEAS, AND WE LIVED IN A ONE-BEDROOM APARTMENT WHEN WE FIRST CAME TO AMERICA.

THEN, AS OUR SITUATION GOT BETTER, WE MOVED TO LONG ISLAND AND THEN WESTCHESTER COUNTY AND OUR STORY IS ONE OF MILLIONS THAT MARKED THE AMERICAN JOURNEY AND BEING ASIAN AMERICAN, I HAVE BEEN, LIKE MOST AMERICANS, I HAVE BEEN VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE INCREASE IN VIOLENCE AND ANTIPATHY AND HATRED AGAINST THE ASIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

THE ASIAN AMERICAN STORY IS THE AMERICAN STORY, ONE AMONG MANY THREADS AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW BEST TO COMBAT THIS RISE IN ANTI-ASIAN SENTIMENTS AND SO WHAT BETTER SOLUTION WOULD THERE BE THAN TO HAVE A MUSEUM THAT IS DEDICATED TO THE CONTRIBUTIONS AND ACHIEVEMENTS OF THE ASIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY THAT IS HOW THE IDEA AROSE AND I THINK IT ACTUALLY HAS GREAT CURRENCY.

I WANT TO GIVE VOICE TO THE FEARS OF THIS COMMUNITY.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE INCREASE IN HATRED AND SENTIMENT AGAINST ASIAN AMERICANS.

IT IS FUELED BY WHAT HAPPENED WITH COVID.

EVERYONE SUFFERED DURING COVID, BUT ESPECIALLY THIS POPULATION, THIS COMMUNITY, BECAUSE SO MANY ASIAN AMERICANS OWNED THEIR OWN BUSINESSES, SO FROM AN UNEMPLOYMENT RATE OF 2.4% RECOVERED THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE JUMPED TO OVER 14% AND ON TOP OF THAT CAME HEAPS OF ABUSE AND ANGER AND ANTI-ASIAN SENTIMENTS.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE CAUSES OF THAT?

WE HAVE SEEN COVID, AS YOU SAID, AND IT WAS LABELED BY THE PRESIDENT THEN, THE CHINA FLU.

THAT IS ONE REASON.

ARE THERE OTHER REASONS YOU THINK THIS IS HAPPENING?

>> I THINK THAT IS ONE REASON ON ALSO THE INCREASING TENSIONS BETWEEN THE U.S. CHINA RELATIONS IS ANOTHER.

A LOT OF PEOPLE CANNOT TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ASIAN AMERICAN GROUPS AND IN FACT, THE ASIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY IS COMPRISED OF PEOPLE FROM 80 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES WITH VERY DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS, BUT TOO MANY PEOPLE, THEY REALLY CANNOT DIFFERENTIATE ONE GROUP VERSUS ANOTHER, AND SO THESE INCREASING TENSIONS BETWEEN U.S. CHINA RELATIONS IS SPILLING OVER TO ALL ASIAN AMERICAN GROUPS AND WAS OBVIOUSLY GREAT CONCERN WITHIN THE COMMUNITY AND OUTSIDE THE COMMUNITY, AS WELL.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE NEED FOR A CULTURAL MUSEUM FOR ASIAN AMERICANS.

>> HISTORY AND CULTURE BOTH.

>> AS PART OF THE SMITHSONIAN HIM ON THE MALL, WHAT ELEMENTS OF THE HISTORY AND CULTURE WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE HIGHLIGHTED?

>> HOW MANY PEOPLE, FOR EXAMPLE, KNOW THAT ASIAN HOW MANY PEOPLE KNOW THAT ASIAN AMERICANS ACTUALLY WERE PRESENT DURING THE CIVIL WAR, AS WELL?

HOW MANY PEOPLE KNOW THAT THE TRANSCONTINENTAL RAILROAD, WHICH WAS A GREAT UNITER OF EAST AND WEST COAST IN AMERICA, THAT GAVE RISE TO THIS ECONOMIC POWERHOUSE THAT WE ARE TODAY THAT WAS DONE BY ASIAN AMERICANS.

THERE WERE 15,000 CHINESE AMERICANS PRIMARILY, WHO BUILT THE TRANSCONTINENTAL RAILROAD GOING FROM CALIFORNIA THROUGH THE TOUGH, HARD SIERRA MADRE MOUNTAINS ACROSS THE PLAINS AND CONNECTING WITH THE RAILROAD TRACKS THAT WERE COMING FROM THE EAST AND OVER 1000 CHINESE RAILROAD WORKERS DIED AND THEY WERE NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO BECOME U.S. CITIZENS, THEN OF COURSE, WE ALL KNOW --MOST OF US SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THE JAPANESE AMERICAN INCARCERATION IN INTERNMENT CAMPS.

HOW MANY PEOPLE KNEW THAT JAPANESE-AMERICANS FOUGHT VALIANTLY IN THE EUROPEAN THEATER TO PROTECT FREEDOM IN THEIR HOMELAND WHEN THEIR RELATIVES AND LOVED ONES WERE BEING INTERNED?

SO, THERE IS A LOT TO KNOW AND EVEN NOW, WE HAVE SO MANY ASIAN AMERICANS WHO ARE CONTRIBUTING TO THE VITALITY OF OUR ECONOMY SO LOOK AT SILICON VALLEY.

WE HAVE ASIAN AMERICANS WHO ARE SPEARHEADING THE DRIVE TO INNOVATION, TO TRANSFORMATION IN AMERICA AND AROUND THE WORLD.

THIS IS A COMMUNITY THAT DOES NOT TALK VERY MUCH, THEY ARE KIND OF QUIET.

THEY ARE RESERVED, BUT THE FBI STATISTICS ON HOW MANY ASIAN AMERICANS HAVE BEEN TARGETED AND THE INCREASE IN HATE CRIMES ARE STUNNING.

IN ONE YEAR ALONE, SINCE COVID, THERE WAS AN INCREASE OF 77% IN ANTI-ASIAN HATE CRIMES.

IN THE SECOND YEAR, THAT JUMPED TO 167% INCREASE AND IN THE THIRD YEAR WE SAW INCREASES OF OVER THREE TIMES THE LEVEL OF ANTI-ASIAN CRIMES, HATRED PRIOR TO COVID, SO --AND I'M SURE THOSE STATISTICS ARE ACTUALLY UNDERSTATED, BECAUSE ONCE AGAIN, THIS IS NOT A COMMUNITY THAT SPEAKS OUT VERY MUCH.

>> TWO OF THE MOST SHAMEFUL PERIODS OF AMERICAN HISTORY WHERE THE CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT IN THE 1880S AND THEN OF COURSE, THE JAPANESE INTERNMENT IN WORLD WAR II.

TO WHAT EXTENT DO THOSE TWO EVENTS STILL IMPACT THE PSYCHE OF THE ASIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY?

>> THE CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT OF THE 1890S WAS NOT THE ONLY PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT BARRED CHINESE AMERICANS FROM FULL PARTICIPATION IN AMERICAN LIFE.

THERE WERE LEGISLATIONS STEMMING BACK TO LATE 1700s AND THROUGHOUT THE 1800s.

AND OF COURSE, THERE ARE OTHER INSTANCES OF GREAT INJUSTICE TO OTHER GROUPS WITHIN OUR COUNTRY, AS WELL, BUT I THINK WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER IS THAT WE ARE A YOUNG COUNTRY THAT IS FULL OF HOPE AND PROMISE AND WILLINGNESS TO ADMIT OUR ERRORS, AND THAT WE HAVE A GREAT CAPACITY TO CHANGE, TO TRANSFORM, AND TO LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE CONTRIBUTIONS OF ASIAN AMERICANS AND ASIAN AMERICAN IMMIGRANTS, ESPECIALLY IN SILICON VALLEY AND THE TECHNOLOGY INDUSTRY.

WHAT SHOULD WE BE DOING ON IMMIGRATION?

IT SEEMS LIKE WE ARE CLAMPING DOWN TO SOME EXTENT ON VISAS AND IMMIGRATION'S.

SHOULD WE BE OPENING IT UP MORE?

>> THIS IS A HUGE ISSUE THAT WHEN PRESIDENT OBAMA HAD COMPLETE CONTROL OF THE GOVERNMENT, MEANING THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE, EVEN HE COULD NOT COME TO ANY RESOLUTION OF THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.

I THINK REPUBLICANS BELIEVE IN LEGAL MIGRATION, AND SO THEY ARE MORE IN FAVOR OF A GUEST WORKER PROGRAM, WHEREAS DEMOCRATS WOULD WANT AMNESTY AND THEY WOULD NOT LIKE A GUEST WORKER PROGRAM.

BUT, WITH OUR ECONOMY AS LIKING AND NEEDING WORKERS AS WE DO TODAY --THERE ARE 11 MILLION VACANT JOBS IN AMERICA TODAY AND THE LABOR PARTICIPATION RATE IS QUITE LOW.

WHEN I WAS SECRETARY OF LABOR, THE AVERAGE LABOR PARTICIPATION RATE WAS 66.4% IN A WORKING POPULATION OF ABOUT 157 MILLION PEOPLE.

NOW, THAT LABOR PARTICIPATION RATE IS ONLY 62.3%.

POST-COVID.

ABOUT THE SAME WAS GROWING IN THE PAST THREE YEARS SO WE ARE MISSING SIX TO 7 MILLION WORKERS.

AND SO WE NEED SKILLED WORKERS, AS WELL.

WE NEED SCIENCE, TECHNOLOGY, ENGINEERING AND MATH EXPERTS AND MOST OF THE TIME, THEY ARE EXPORTED BASICALLY FROM ABROAD, SO THERE ARE A LOT OF ISSUES WITHIN THE IMMIGRATION FIELD THAT NEED ADDRESSING.

>> DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD JUST STAPLE A VISA ON ANYBODY WHO GETS A GOOD STEM EDUCATION?

>> THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT SENATOR BENNETT OF UTAH USED TO SAY, THE LATE SENATOR BENNETT, AND WE CERTAINLY NEED MORE S.T.E.M.

STUDENTS AND WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE OUR STUDENTS HERE WHO ARE NATIVEBORN TO GO MORE INTO THE S.T.E.M.

FIELDS, INCLUDING MORE YOUNG GIRLS, TO GO INTO THE S.T.E.M.

IT HAS A LOT OF PROMISE.

IT HAS LOTS OF POTENTIAL IN TERMS OF JOB OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE FUTURE, SO WE NEED TO DO BOTH.

WE NEED TO ALLOW MORE IMMIGRATION, AND THIS IS AN AREA AGAIN OF GREAT DISCUSSION AND DISAGREEMENT, OF THESE MORE SKILLED WORKERS, BUT ALSO, WE NEED TO SOMEHOW INVEST AND MAKE MORE INTERESTING TO OUR OWN YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE NATIVEBORN, TO STUDY THE S.T.E.M.

FIELDS.

>> HELP ME MAKE SENSE OF THE LABOR PARTICIPATION RATE THESE DAYS AFTER COVID, HOW THE NATURE OF WORK IS CHANGING, AND WHAT SEEMS TO BE A VERY LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RATE.

>> ON THE FIRST FRIDAY OF EVERY MONTH COMES THE UNEMPLOYMENT NUMBERS, AND THEY ARE HELD IN GREAT SECRECY, SO IT IS AT PRECISELY 8:30 IN THE MORNING.

I REMEMBER THAT.

WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW IS THAT AFTER THE GREAT RECESSION, THERE WAS A DROP OFF OF WORKERS.

SOME LEFT BECAUSE OF THAT LACK OF OPPORTUNITY, SOME RETIRED, AND EVER SINCE THEN, WE HAVE NOT SEEN THESE WORKERS COME BACK, AND IT COULD BE, AGAIN, THROUGH COMPETITION WITH GOVERNMENT COMPENSATION PROGRAMS.

THE LARGESS OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN THE LAST FEW YEARS -- SOME WAS JUSTIFIED.

CLEARLY IN MARCH OF 2020, THE C.A.R.E.S.

ACT WAS NECESSARY, BECAUSE OUR ECONOMY WAS IN SUCH BAD SHAPE THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BASICALLY FUNDED THROUGH THE EMPLOYERS, THE PAYROLLS THEY HAD TO MAINTAIN TO KEEP WORKERS EMPLOYED.

>> HAS BEEN PHASED OUT NOW AND WE SEEM TO HAVE REALLY HIGH EMPLOYMENT, DON'T WE?

>> SUBSEQUENT TO THAT, THERE WERE ALSO VERY LARGE GOVERNMENT INJECTIONS INTO THE ECONOMY, SO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BECAME WITH THE PRIVATE SECTOR IN TERMS OF COMPENSATION AND MANY OF THESE WORKERS ARE MAKING VERY RATIONAL CHOICES AS TO WHY THEY ARE STAYING OUT OF THE WORKFORCE.

WE ARE ALSO SEEING AN INCREASE IN DISABILITY, SO THAT IS ALSO CERTAINLY A PROGRAM THAT IS NEEDED BY THOSE WHO NEED IT, BUT IT HAS ALSO TAKEN WORKERS OUT OF THE WORKFORCE.

ONE CONCERN NOW IS WHETHER THE SLOW LABOR PARTICIPATION RATE IS PERMANENT, AND WE NEED TO GET MORE PEOPLE BACK INTO THE WORKFORCE BECAUSE IT IS VITAL FOR OUR ECONOMIC RECOVERY AND THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE THAT JUST CAME OUT IN JUNE, IT IS 3.7%.

IT IS BELOW FULL EMPLOYMENT, SO EVERY EMPLOYER IN EVERY FIELD IS SO ANXIOUS HIRE A WORKERS THAT THEY NEED, AND NOT HAVING THE WORKERS AVAILABLE IS AFFECTING THE SUPPLY CHAIN AND OUR ABILITY TO PROVIDE SERVICES AND KEEP THE ECONOMY GOING IN A ROBUST CONDITION.

>> IN A WASHINGTON POST ESSAY, YOU TALK ABOUT A FEAR THAT WE MIGHT RETURN TO INTERNMENT CAMPS, A FEAR WITHIN THE ASIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

THAT IS PRETTY STARTLING.

WHERE DO YOU SENSE THAT AND CAN YOU EXPAND ON THAT?

>> I DON'T HAVE TO SENSE IT.

I HEAR IT.

I HEAR IT AMONG THE COMMUNITY.

I STILL GO TO EVENTS.

I HAVE FRIENDS.

I AM PART OF THE COMMUNITY.

THESE ARE FEARS.

THAT IS WHY I SAY I WANT TO GIVE VOICE TO THEM, BECAUSE THIS IS A COMMUNITY THAT HERETOFORE HAS BEEN REALLY HARD- WORKING.

THEY DON'T SPEAK UP.

THEY DON'T COMPLAIN VERY MUCH, AND GIVEN THE LEVEL OF HATRED AND VIOLENCE DIRECTED AGAINST THIS COMMUNITY, THEY'RE FEARFUL.

THEY'RE FEARFUL THAT SUCH AN UNBELIEVABLE POSSIBILITY MAY EXIST.

70% OF CHINESE AMERICANS HAVE FELT THE STING, AND VERY OFTEN, THE PHYSICAL ATTACK OF ANTI- ASIAN HATRED THEY HAVE BEEN SPAT UPON, THEY HAVE BEEN CURSED AT.

JUST WALKING IN THE STREETS OF NEW YORK CITY, SO THIS IS NOT SOMETHING MADE UP.

THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE JUST GOING ABOUT THEIR ORDINARY BUSINESS.

THEIR COMMUTING AND SOMEONE SPITS ON THEM OR SOMEONE TELLS THEM TO GO HOME.

AMERICA IS THEIR HOME.

>> ELAINE CHAO, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU.

THEY ARE GREAT PATRIOTS AND I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT, AS WELL.