>> SECURING THE BORDER, FEEDING SCHOOL KIDS AND STOPPING RACISM AT THE HOSPITAL.

THOSE ARE OUR TOPICS NEXT ON IVORY TOWER.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M BARBARA FOUGHT FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

JOINING ME TONIGHT ON THE PANEL ARE: MICHAEL TILLOTSON FROM SUNY CORTLAND, ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LEMOYNE COLLEGE, AND TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE TWO NEW DEVELOPMENTS THIS WEEK RELATED TO THE US-MEXICO BORDER.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS SUING TEXAS BECAUSE IT PUT FLOATING BLOCKADES IN THE RIO GRANDE TO DISCOURAGE CROSSINGS.

LAWYERS SAY THIS VIOLATES INTERNATIONAL TREATIES AND OBSTRUCTS RIVER NAVIGATION.

AND THEN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S NEW FEDERAL ENFORCEMENT PROGRAM-- THE ONE THAT REWARDS THOSE WHO MAKE APPOINTMENTS OVER THOSE WHO CROSS ILLEGALLY-- WELL, A JUDGE SAYS THAT'S ILLEGAL.

ANIRBAN, LET'S START WITH THE SECOND CASE.

IS THAT THE RIGHT CALL FROM THE JUDGE?

>> YES, THE IMMIGRATION ADVOCATES ARE SAYING THAT THAT IS THE RIGHT CALL.

NOW LET ME BACK UP A A LITTLE BIT, RIGHT?

UNITED STATES IS OBLIGATED BY THE 1967 PROTOCOL, WHICH IS ENSHRINED IN OUR 1918 IMMIGRATION LAW, TO ALLOW ASIGH WILL YOU PLEASE SEEKERS INTO THE COUNTRY WITHOUT PREJUDICE AND NON-REFOWLMENT WHICH IS NOT SENDING THEM BACK TO PLACES WHERE THEY WOULD LIKELY BE PERSECUTED.

NOW, A LOT OF POLITICIANS AND NEWS OF MAKE A BIG DEAL OF CROSSING THE RIGHT WAY.

AND THAT IS ABSOLUTELY MISLEADING BECAUSE, ACCORDING TO U.S. LAW-- AND YOU CAN LOOK IT UP AT THE ACLU WEBSITE-- UNDER U.S. LAW, A PERSON SEEKING ASYLUM MAY DO SO ARRIVING AT THE BORDER AND ASKING TO BE SCREENED BY UNITED NATION OFFICIALS AT A POINT-- U.S. OFFICIALS AND BE SCREENED AT PORT OF ENTRY AND THEY CAN ENTER WITHOUT FEAR OF PERSECUTION-- >> SO PUTTING-- >> SO WHEN THEY SAY PEOPLE ARE NOT COMING IN THE RIGHT WAY, THAT'S THE WRONG WAY TO PUT IT.

THEY'RE COMING IN THE RIGHT WAY BASED ON INTERNATIONAL TREATIES.

>> SO PUTTING THEM AT THE BACK OF THE LINE THEN... >> IS NOT-- IS ACTUALLY VIOLATION OF U.S.

OBLIGATION AND U.S. LAW.

AND THESE LAWS WERE MADE AFTER WORLD WAR II, 1951 REFUGEE CONVENTION, WE WANTED TO DO SOMETHING AS A GLOBAL COMMUNITY THAT NEVER AGAIN PEOPLE SUFFERING FROM PERSECUTION, RUNNING AWAY FROM RACE, NATIONALLY RELATED PERSECUTION, WOULD NEVER HAVE TO FACE THIS KIND OF PREDICAMENT THE JEWS FACED DURING THE SECOND WORLD WAR EXPANDED IN 196 P IN THE VIETNAM WAR AND SO O.

REFUGEES HAVE COME IN AND CONTRIBUTED TO U.S. SOCIETY.

SO I THINK HERE IS THE THING, RIGHT, THE REPUBLICANS-- SOME REPUBLICANS WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT IMMIGRATION, IT'S BASICALLY ON RACIST VITRIOL.

PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ESPECIALLY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, I THINK IT SUFFERS FROM WHAT LACK OF A BETTER WORD, BORDER LINE PERSONALITY DISORDER.

ON ONE CASE THEY WANT TO SAY WE ARE PRO-IMMIGRATION BUT BIDEN ADMINISTRATION PUT IN THESE LAWS THAT ARE REALLY DRACONIAN AND GOES AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW.

SO I DO THINK THE JUDGE MADE THE RIGHT DECISION IN CASE.

>> BUT MICHAEL, THE BIDEN POLICY SEEMED TO BE WORKING IN THAT THERE WERE FEWER PEOPLE COMING IN AND IT WAS A LITTLE MORE ORDERLY AND ABLE TO BE CONTROLLED.

>> TEMPORARILY ANYWAY, RIGHT?

I THINK THEY'LL FIND A QUR FOR CANCER BEFORE THEY FIX THE BORDER ISSUE.

LET'S BE HONEST AND TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE TECH TEAKS-- TECHNIQUES THEY'RE USING NOW.

THESE ARE NOT LIVESTOCK.

THEY'RE HUMAN BEINGS.

FLOATING BLOCKADES IN THE DEEP WATER, BARBED WIRE IN THE SHALLOW WATER, RIGHT?

IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME IF THIS IS BORDER CROSSING DETERRENT OR BORDER POLICY OR STATE SANCTIONED HUMAN TORTURE, RIGHT?

WE HAVE BEEN KICKING THIS CAN DOWN THE ROAD ON THE ISSUE.

SURE, THE CARTELS ARE BAD ACTORS.

SURE, HUMAN SMUGGLERS ARE BAD ACTORS AND THE LIST GOES ON.

BUT USING THE LIVES OF DESPERATE HUMAN BEINGS AS PARTISAN POLITICAL FOOTBALL FROM THE LIKES OF TEXAS GOVERNOR ABBOTT WHO SAY CONSTRUCTION WORKERS SHOULD NOT GET A WATER BREAK IS BEYOND THE PALE.

LET'S NOT FOREFORGET ABOUT THE BEAUTIFUL LADY IN THE NEW YORK HARKOR.

GIVE ME YOUR TIRED, YOUR HUDDLED MASSES.

ONE PIECE OF THE PUZZLE MUST BE TO HUMANIZE THE MIGRANTS IN THE EYES OF MANY AMERICANS.

UNTIL THAT IS DONE WITH INTENSION, THERE WILL BE POLITICIANS DOMINATING THE LANDSCAPE.

I DON'T SEE ANY REAL SUSTAINED SOLUTIONS COMING FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION OR ANY OTHER ADMINISTRATION UNTIL WE HUMANIZE THESE PEOPLE AND THE LIVES OF MANY AMERICANS.

>> I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU ON THE POINT THAT WE DO NEED HUMANIZE THIS AND RECOGNIZE THAT THESE ARE HUMAN BEINGS.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, WE ALSO NEED TO RECOGNIZE WHAT IT HAS TO BE LIKE FOR THE PEOPLE LIVING DOWN IN TEXAS WHO HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH THIS PROBLEM, PARTICULARLY IN THAT AREA, FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS.

PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD HOMES BROKEN INTO, PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAD THEIR LIVES DISRUPTED, RELATIVES KILLED.

FOR THEM, THIS IS MUCH MORE PERSONAL, AND THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE NOT BEING HUMANIZED.

THEY'RE BEING ASKED TO TAKE ON THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION FOR THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.

OBJECT OBVIOUSLY WE KNOW THERE ARE IMMIGRANTS COMING FROM MANY OTHER PLACES BUT THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE THE ONES BEARING THE BRUNT OF IT PERSONALLY AND CERTAINLY FINANCIALLY.

AND THAT IS-- RESPONDING TO THAT IS PART WHAT HAVE ACHIEVED, YOU KNOW, THAT'S HOW GOVERNOR ABBOTT BECAME GOVERNOR AND IT'S ALSO, QUITE FRANKLY, WHAT GETS THE ATTENTION OF THE GOVERNMENT.

AND YOU ARE RIGHT, THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO COME UP WITH A CLEAR POLICY.

AND IT HAS TO BE A BALANCED POLICY, A POLICY THAT BALANCES RECOGNIZING THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING FROM DESPERATE SITUATIONS WITH THE NEEDS OF AMERICANS WHO ARE DEALING WITH THE CRIMINAL ELEMENT, WHO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE DRUGS COMING IN.

AND SO UNTIL THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES THAT, IT ALLOWS PEOPLE LIKE GOVERNOR ABBOTT, THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE, TO COME UP WITH, YOU KNOW,ALL OF THESE PLANS.

I WAS STUNNED, FOR EXAMPLE, TO FIND OUT THAT NOT ONLY DID GOVERNOR ABBOTT AUTHORIZE THE USE OF BUOYS, THE BARBED WIRE, THE BARRIERS ON LAND BUT HE ALSO HAS BEEN GETTING SUPPORT FROM VARIOUS STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY WHO ARE SENDING MEMBERS OF THEIR NATIONAL GUARD, ET CETERA, TO SUPPORT HIM.

SO TO SIMPLY SAY IT'S GOVERNOR ABBOTT FIRST AND FOREMOST IS NOT TRUE.

MANY OTHER GOVERNORS ARE LOOKING AT THIS AND SAYING THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM AND UNTIL THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COMES UP WITH A WORKABLE SOLUTION, WE HAVE TO HELP.

>> YOU KNOW, THE DRUG PROBLEM AND ALL THAT, YES, BUT TO PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT ON THAT ASPECT OF DRUGS, MOST DRUGS COME INTO THE UNITED STATES THROUGH PORTS OF ENTRY, THROUGH PROPER CHANNELS, RIGHT?

SO AND THROUGH TUNNELS AND ALL THAT STUFF.

CARTELS AND ALL THAT STUFF, THEY HAVE REMAINED ALL THROUGH U.S. HISTORY.

THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF CARTELS.

AND IMMIGRANTS AND REFUGEES, RECENT STUDIES SHOW THEY CONTRIBUTE $19,000 PER YEAR TO THE U.S. ECONOMY.

SO I DON'T KNOW, AT THIS RATE, IF WE KEEP THIS UP, I THINK THE FRENCH MIGHT CALL TO GET THEIR STATUE BACK.

BUT I'M NOT VERY SURE.

>> I DID A POST-DOC AT THE UNIVERSITY OF HUGHES HOUSTON FOR THREE YEARS, I LIVED IN HOUSTON FOR THREE YEARS.

SOMEHOW WE HAVE TO STRIKE A BALANCE BETWEEN THE HUMANIZATION OF THE INNOCENCE AND THE CRIMINAL CARTELS.

WE HAVE TO STRIKE A DIFFERENCE IN PUBLIC MESSAGING SOMEHOW AS A LONG-TERM SOLUTION TO PUBLIC POLICY TO SOME DEGREE.

>> THIS HAS BECOME SO POLITICAL.

WHY DOESN'T BIDEN CALL UP ABBOTT AND GET THIS SOLVED?

>> I THINK THERE IS A VERY-- WHEN A PERSON, KNOWING FROM ALL -- GIVEN ALL THE DATA THAT PUTTING RAZOR WIRES AND PUTTING THESE BUOYS, DO NOT STOP IMMIGRATION, RIGHT?

IF THEY DOUBLE DOWN AND DO THAT KIND OF STUFF.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF CONVERSATION YOU MIGHT HAVE.

BUT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD USE ITS AUTHORITY AND POWER TO SUE GREG ABBOTT.

THIS IS CRIMINAL AND GOES AGAINST REFUGEE CLAW.

>>-- REFUGEE LAW.

>> THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

LET'S MOVE ON TO OUR SECOND TOPIC.

WE'RE BEGINNING TO SEE A TREND IN SCHOOLS THIS FALL IN SEVERAL STATES -- FREE LUNCHES FOR CHILDREN.

YOU REMEMBER DURING THE PANDEMIC A FEDERAL PROGRAM GAVE FREE LUNCHES TO ALL, AND THAT MADE SUCH A DIFFERENCE THAT AT LEAST SIX STATES ARE MAKING IT PERMANENT.

SO IN THESE STATES NOW IT'S NOT JUST CHILDREN FROM LOW-INCOME COME HOMES WHO GET A FREE OR REDUCED-PRICE LUNCH, BUT EVERY CHILD DOES.

TARA, IS THIS A GOOD IDEA?

>> I'M GOING TO SAY I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE I'M TORN BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND, I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS, YOU KNOW, CHILDREN DO TEND TO GET SOME BULLYING FROM SOME CLASSMATES, PROBABLY NOT MOST, BUT FROM SOME CLASSMATES-- >> IF THEY'RE THE ONES THAT GET THE FREE LUNCH AND OTHERS DON'T.

>> ON THE OTHER HAND, WE KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, ANECDOTALLY THERE IS QUITE A BIT OF WASTE AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S ONE ASPECT OF THE STORY THAT HAS NOT BEEN REALLY STUDIED WELL.

HOW MUCH WASTE IS THERE FROM STUDENTS WHO EITHER DON'T NEED THE LUNCHES BUT GET THEM OR STUDENTS WHO DON'T LIKE THE HEALTHY FOOD.

SO, YOU KNOW, I'M REALLY TORN ABOUT.

THIS THE OTHER COMPONENT OF THIS THAT REALLY CONCERNS ME IS SHOULD WE BE FEEDING STUDENTS WHOSE FAMILIES CAN AFFORD TO FEED THEM?

AND LET ME JUST SAY I DO SORT OF, IN MY MIND, HAVE AN EXCEPTION FOR THE STUDENT WHO FORGETS THE LUNCH AT HOME OR THIS JUST HAPPENS TO BE THE WEEK THAT MOM AND DAD OR SHORT AND YOU SEE THE CHILD NEEDS LUNCH.

OF COURSE YOU ARE GOING TO FEED THAT CHILD.

I WANT TO SEE THAT.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, WHY ARE WE FEEDING STUDENTS WHOSE FAMILIES CAN CLEARLY AFFORD TO FEED THEM?

SO I'M REALLY TORN ABOUT THIS.

I DON'T TRULY HAVE AN ANSWER.

>> MICHAEL, WITH FOOD PRICES GOING UP, THIS IS AN EXPENSE.

AND TARA SAYS, YOU KNOW, WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO CAN PAY, PAY?

THE SCHOOL COULD USE THE MONEY FOR SOMETHING ELSE.

>> FOR QUITE SOMETIME AS I'M SURE EVERYONE AT THE TABLE HAS SOME KNOWLEDGE OF, THE DATA FOR QUITE SOMETIME, THE DATA AND COGNITIVE SCIENCE, THE DATA AND NEURAL SCIENCE HAS SUGGESTED THAT CHILDREN FIND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO LEARN WHEN THEY'RE HUNGRY.

NOTHING NEW THERE.

NUTRITION ENERGY IS A VITAL COMPONENT OF COGNITIVE CAPACITY IN THE CLASSROOM.

IF WE ARE TO COMPETE ON THE GLOBAL STAGE, CHILDREN MUST HAVE ACCESS TO A NON-SUGARY BREAKFAST AND NUTRITIOUS LUNCH.

THAT'S VITAL.

AT THE BASE OF MASLOV'S HIERARCHY, PHYSIOLOGICAL NEEDS, FOOD IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SCALE.

SO ON A PERSONAL NOTE, MY WIFE HAS TAUGHT ELEMENTARY SCHOOL FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS OR SO.

AND SHE TALKS ABOUT WHEN A STUDENT IS NOT HUNGRY, THEIR SOCIAL AND EMOTIONAL NEEDS FLOURISH, THEIR BEHAVIOR IS BETTER, THEIR CAPACITY TO LEARN IS MUCH BETTER.

SO FROM MY VIEW, UNIVERSAL BREAKFAST AND LUNCH PROGRAMS ARE ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL TO THE UNITED STATES' NATIONAL INTERESTS.

>> WELL, I SUPPORT THIS.

AND I SUPPORT THIS BECAUSE YOU KNOW, I SAW STUDIES THAT SHOW AN EXTRAORDINARY IMPROVEMENT, AT LEAST IN THE CASE OF ONE OF THE LARGEST NATIONAL SCHOOL LUNCH PROGRAMS THAT ARE IN INDIA.

INDIA FEEDS 120 MILLION SCHOOL KIDS EVERY DAY, A WARMED COOKED MEAL COOKED IN VOLS.

UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF THAT HAS BEEN DESEGREGATION ACROSS CLASS AND GENDER LINES AND SO O.

BUT I DON'T WANT TO ROMANTICIZE IT TOO MUCH, A PROGRAM OF THAT SCALE WILL HAVE CORRUPTION, SOME BAD ACTORS THAT, YOU KNOW, WILL STEAL AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

BUT ON THE WHOLE, COMING OUT FROM MOST ECONOMISTS AND SOCIOLOGISTS, HAVE SHOWN A DRAMATIC INCREASE IN SCHOOL ENROLLMENT, GOING TO SCHOOL, STAYING IN SCHOOL AND PERFORMING ACADEMICALLY.

NOW IN THE CASE OF U.S., YOU KNOW, THERE ARE ISSUES HERE, RIGHT?

LIKE WHENEVER YOU WANT TO DO SOMETHING, PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER STUDIED SOCIALISM WILL START SCREAMING IT'S SOCIAL ITCH, BLAH BLAH BLAH.

-- SOCIALISM, BLAH BLAH BLAH, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT MATTHEW DESMOND'S WORK CALLED POVERTY BY AMERICA.

ONE OF THE CASES IN THE BOOK THE RICH ALREADY GET A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF SUBSIDY FROM THE GOVERNMENT, MUCH MORE THAN THE POOR GETS, RIGHT?

SO IN THAT SENSE, THIS IS NOT REALLY ANYMORE THAN THAT.

BUT IT'S MORE FOCUSED TO OR FOR CHILDREN.

AND I THINK IT WILL BE A BIG LEVEL PLAYER.

MINNESOTA HAD AN ARTICLE YOU SENT US, LOOKS AT THE MINNESOTA SYSTEM THAT DID THIS AND THEY FOUND BETTER RESULTS.

THINK THERE IS A REALLY STRONG CASE TO BE MADE FOR UNIVERSAL SCHOOL LUNCHES REGARDLESS OF YOUR PARENTS INCOME, WHETHER THEY'RE RICH OR POOR.

>> TARA, ONE OF THE CONCERNS SOME OF THE CRITICS HAVE SAID THIS IS GOING TO UNDERMINE PARENTAL CONTROL OR THAT THE KID WHO STILL WANTS TO BRING THE BROWN BAG LUNCH BECAUSE MOM OR DAD WANT DIFFERENT NUTRITION OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THEN THEY'RE GOING TO GET TEASED OR BULLIED.

SO WHAT ABOUT THIS PARENTAL CONTROL ISSUE?

>> I THINK IT'S A REAL ISSUE, YOU KNOW, AS ANYONE WHO HAS LISTENED TO ME ON THE SHOW KNOWS, I HAVE A LONG STANDING AND GROWING CONCERN ABOUT THE FACT THAT INCREASINGLY WE WANT SCHOOLS TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THINGS THAT ARE TRADITIONALLY CONSIDERED PARENTAL ISSUES.

AND ONE OF THOSE ISSUES IS PARENTS PROVIDING FOR THEIR CHILD'S LUNCH, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS THEY CAN.

THE OTHER FACTOR, AS YOU CORRECTLY STATE IS THE CHILD WHO NEEDS MAYBE A SPECIAL LUNCH OR WHOSE PARENTS WANT THEM TO EAT DIFFERENTLY AND THAT IS ALSO A GROWING TREND IN THE COUNTRY.

ALSO, YOU KNOW, YOU ALSO MAY HAVE THE PARENT WHO SAYS, YOU KNOW, FINE THE SCHOOL CAN CONSERVE WHATEVER NUTRITIONAL LUNCH THEY WANT, I'M PERFECTLY FINE WITH MY CHILD EATING THIS JUNK FOOD OR SPECIAL MEAL.

THAT BECOMES A PROBLEM.

SO I THINK THERE IS A POTENTIAL FOR BULLYING THE OTHER WAY.

HOWEVER, I THINK TRADITIONALLY, YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE LESS OF THAT TYPE OF BULLYING, MORE OF THE OTHER, YOU ARE POOR SO HAVE YOU TO GET THE SCHOOL LUNCH.

>> MICHAEL.

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO REMEMBER IN 2010 OR 11 WHEN MICHELLE OBAMA WAS WORKING ON OBESITY IN SCHOOLS AND SARAH MEDICALLAN SAID KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY FOOD.

SERIOUSLY?

GIVE ME A BREAK.

>> IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF NEW YORK PICKS UP ON THIS AS A POLICY.

I KNOW THE SYRACUSE SCHOOLS DO HAVE LUNCH FOR EVERYBODY.

AND THE OTHER NEW THING THAT IS HAPPENING, I THINK IT WAS CENTRAL SQUARE HAS STARTED DOING SCHOOL SNRIES SUPPLIES FOR ALL THEIR CHILDREN.

LET ME MOVE IT TO THE NEXT TOPIC.

STUDY AFTER STUDY OF THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM OVER THE PAST 40 YEARS HAS SHOWN THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR DON'T GET THE SAME TREATMENT AS CAUCASIANS.

I'M WONDERING IF BODY CAMERAS ON POLICE HAVE CHANGED POLICE POLICIES AND CULTURE, MICHAEL, MORE PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE TREATED FAIRLY, WOULD THAT SAME THING HAPPEN IF DOCTORS AND MEDICAL WORKERS... >> WE ARE NOT CERTAIN IF BODY CAMS HAVE HELPED HOW PEOPLE HAVE BEEN TREATED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT.

THAT ONE IS STILL UP FOR DEBATE.

HOWEVER I WOULD SAY WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RACE OR RACE IN OUR SOCIETY, WE CANNOT LOSE SIGHT OF THE IDEA THAT THE AMERICAN IDEAL IS RACIALIZED.

THAT IS UNDERAPPRECIATED.

WE THINK ABOUT THE FOUNDERS OF THIS NATION.

THEY DO INTELLECTUALIZE VERY WELL BUT THEY PUT COMMERCE BEFORE CHRISTIANITY, PROFIT BEFORE PEOPLE, MONEY BEFORE MANKIND.

LET'S NOT FORGET THAT FACT.

THE FACT THAT YOU WANT TO PUT BODY CAMS ON PEOPLE, I THINK, TAKES US BACK TO THE UNDERSTANDING THAT ALL HUMAN BEINGS ARE PRODUCTS OF THEIR EXPOSURE ENVIRONMENTS AND EXPERIENCES WHICH SHAPES THEIR PSYCHOLOGICAL PROFILE, DETERMINES AND AT TIMES DETERMINES THEIR BEHAVIOR AND WORLD VIEW.

WHY SHOULD THE MEDICAL PROFESSION BE ANY DIFFERENT FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT AND EDUCATION OR ANYTHING ELSE?

I DON'T THINK ANY SORT OF BODY CAM IS GOING TO CHANGE THAT UNTIL YOU TRAWN THE PEOPLE IN MEDICAL SCHOOL TO SEE BLACK PEOPLE AS FULLY HUMAN; FOR EXAMPLE, WE GO BACK TO VOGUE MAGAZINE, I THINK IT WAS JANUAR.

THEY DID A COVER STORY ON HOW SERENA WILLIAMS WAS TREATED HORRIBLY AT A HOSPITAL.

SHE SUFFERS FROM PULMONARY EMBOLISMS.

THEY DIDN'T WANT TO TREAT HER FOR THAT.

SHE HAD TO GO IN THE HALLWAY IN HER GOWN AND SAY I NEED A C.T.

SCAN WITH A CONTRAST.

GIVE IT TO ME NOW.

THEY SAID NO, YOU ARE FINE.

THIS IS A LADY WHO IS FABULOUSLY FAMOUS, WEALTHY AND MFL.

IF SHE COULDN'T GET PROPER TREATMENT, I DON'T KNOW HOW THE SISTER IN THE SOUTH BRONX IS GOING TO GET PROPER TREATMENT.

>> REGARDING THE BODY CAMS FOR POLICE, THERE IS RESEARCH THAT HAS NOW COME OUT, THE JOURNAL OF QUANTITATIVE CRIMINOLOGY SAID THE LIKELIHOOD OF FORCE USED WITHOUT BODY CAM WAS ROUGHLY TWICE THAT OF WHEN PEOPLE DID NOT-- OR DID USE BODY CAMS.

I HAVE, YOU KNOW, I WAS LOOKING AT OPINIONS BY OTHER DOCTORS, AND I WAS GOING SAY THE WORD DOC CAM SO THAT HAS BEEN MAKE ENSO LET'S SAY MED CAM.

SO THE DOCTORS SAID THERE HAVE BEEN CAMERAS IN TRAUMA ROOMS FOR TEACHING PURPOSES, FOR A VERY LONG TIME, RIGHT?

ESPECIALLY IN TERMS OF RESUSCITATION OF CHILDREN AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

IT'S A TEACHING MATERIAL.

BUT THEY HAVE ALSO SAID MANY DOCTORS AND NURSES FACE A LOT OF VIOLENCE TOWARDS THEM BY PATIENTS IN THE EMERGENCY ROOMS AND IT'S A CONTINUOUS-- >> OR FAMILY MEMBERS.

>> AND BODY CAMS MIGHT HELP DOCUMENT THAT.

AND ALSO PSYCHIATRISTS, FOR EXAMPLE, OR QUITE LIKELY TO HAVE A MALPRACTICE CASE OPEN FOR THEM IN THEIR CARRIER.

MANY OF THE CASES ARE FRIVOLOUS.

SO THAT CAN ALSO PUT A KIND OF, YOU KNOW, A REFERENCE, EVIDENCE, TO WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THAT PARTICULAR MOMENT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, POINT WELL TAKEN.

IF THIS KIND OF STARTS EXPANDING, NOW ONE CAN SAY LOOK, PUNISHMENT OF BLACK CHILDREN IN THE SCHOOLS, DETRIMENTALLY AFFECT BLACK CHILDREN AND IT HAS SHOWN THAT IS THE CASE, SO SHOULD TEACHERS WEAR BODY CAM?

>> HOW ABOUT PROFESSORS?

>> PROFESSORS WEAR BODY CAMS?

I THINK THIS SLIPPERY SLOPE ARGUMENT CAN BE CORDONED OFF A LITTLE BIT BY SAYING THAT IN CASE OF PUBLIC SERVICE, WHEN THERE IS A LIFE OR DEATH KIND OF SITUATION, I THINK BODY CAMS MIGHT HELP RATHER THAN INHIBIT.

SO IN THAT CASE, IT WOULD LEAVE OUT THE PROFESSORS AND TEACHERS.

SEE HOW I CARVED IT OUT?

SO I THINK WE ARE SAFE ON THAT COUNTED.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THE ARGUMENT CAN GO BOTH WAYS.

PEOPLE SAY THIS IS-- WE ARE LIVING IN SOCIAL MEDIA.

YOU LOOK AT EVERYONE FROM NOWHERE AND THEY LOOK AT YOU FROM NOWHERE.

WE HAVE CELL PHONES.

I DON'T THINK THIS IN ANY WAY WILL MAKE IT WORSE.

BUT WHAT I'M HEARING FROM DOCTORS, IT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE BETTER OFF FOR DOCTORS AND NURSES AS WELL.

>> MY CONCERN IS THE PRIVACY CONCERN WHERE YOU ARE DEALING WITH, THERE IS ALREADY A LEVEL OF DISTRUST ON THE PART OF-- NOT EVERY BUT MANY AFRICAN-AMERICANS ABOUT THE PHYSICIANS, THAT THE PHYSICIAN DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THEM.

THERE IS ALSO, SIMPLY THAT WHITE COAT FEAR THAT MANY PEOPLE HAVE, JUST OH GEE I'M AT THE DOCTORS, I'M NERVOUS, I'M AT THE HOSPITAL, I'M NERVOUS.

SO THERE IS ALREADY THAT LEVEL OF CONCERN.

AND THEN YOU ADD THE CAMERA TO IT.

WILL PEOPLE BE HONEST ABOUT WHAT HAS OCCURRED THAT BROUGHT THEM TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM OR BROUGHT THEM TO THE DOCTOR?

YOUNG PEOPLE, THAT FIRST APPOINTMENT BY THEMSELVES, WILL THEY BE HONEST WITH THE DOCTOR THAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING PRIVATELY THEY DON'T WANT MOM AND DAD TO KNOW?

THAT'S MY CONCERN, THE LOSS OF PRIVACY.

YOU MENTIONED THERE WERE CAMERAS, YOU KNOW, IN THE TRAUMA ROOMS.

HOW MANY PEOPLE KNOW THAT?

AND SO THAT'S MY BIG FEAR.

THE OTHER THINGS WE NEED TO ADDRESS, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE TO ADDRESS THIS AND ONE OF THEM IS SIMPLY MORE RECRUITMENT OF DOCTORS OF COLORS IN GENERAL, PARTICULARLY AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

I WAS STUNNED TO FIND THAT, AT THIS POINT IN AMERICA, WE ARE STILL SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 30,000 AND 36,000 AFRICAN-AMERICAN DOCTORS.

AND WHAT THE TREND IS THAT THAT NUMBER REALLY ISN'T GOING UP.

IT TENDS TO STAY IN THAT RANGE.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, SCHOOLS, STATES, ET CETERA, CAN SOLVE.

>> GOOD, QUICKLY MICHAEL.

>> THREE BLACK WOMEN ARE THREE OR FOUR TIMES MORE LIKELY TO DIE FROM PREGNANCY RELATED ISSUES FROM NEGLIGENT DOCTORS.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NOT HAPPEN IN OUR NATION.

>> AGREED FOR SURE.

TIME TO OPEN UP THE GRADEBOOK.

>> MY F GOES TO THE INSULTING REALITY OF GEORGE SANTOS PART OF THE AMERICAN INSTITUTION.

I STAND BY THAT F A SECOND TIME.

>> DOUBLE F. ANIRBAN?

>> AGREED AND CAPITALISTIC EXPLOITATION LEADING A NATIONAL SURGE IN CHILD LABOR.

LABOR INSPECTORS FOUND VIOLATIONS INCLUDING DEATH OF A 16-YEAR-OLD IN A SLAUGHTERHOUSE.

TAKING ADVANTAGE OF MIGRANT LABOR WAREHOUSES, LUMBER MILLS AND ROOFING CONTRACTORS ARE RAKING PROFITS ON THE BACKS OF CHILDREN WHO IN THEIR MINDS ARE DISPOSABLE.

>> TARA WHO GETS YOUR F. >> THE GROWTH OF EXTREME TOURISM INDUSTRY AND THOSE WEALTHY TRAVELERS WHO ARE FUELING IT.

FROM THE BILLIONAIRE OWNED SPACE TRAVEL COMPANIES TO THOSE WHO SELL LAVISH TRIPS TO ANTARCTICA OR CLIMB MOUNT EVREST, RICH PEOPLE ARE ENJOYING EXTREME JOURNEYS DESIGNED TO ELICIT EXCREAM AND UNIQUE THRILLS.

THE PROBLEM WITH THIS, HOWEVER, IS THAT THEY'RE CAUSE CAUSING PROBLEMS EVERYWHERE THEY DO THIS.

WHETHER IT'S THE NUMBER OF AMATEUR DEATHS ON MOUNT EVREST OR HIM LAYIAS, THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEMS CAUSED BY THE TRASH THAT THEY LEAVE.

THIS IS BECOMING A REAL PROBLEM.

AND THEY COULD USE THAT MONEY MORE WISELY.

>> OKAY, MICHAEL SOMEBODY DID SOMETHING WELL.

>> MY A TO Dr. MARY MA CHOIR.

SHE WAS CHAIR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE OVER THE CAT PROGRAM, ALSO ASSISTANT DEAN.

MARY, ENJOY YOUR SABBATICAL AND HELLO TO YOUR MOM SEA TEALIA-- CECILIA IF YOU ARE WATCHING.

>> AS WELL AS HISTORIANS LIKE BRUCE AND THREE STAR GENERAL DAN LEAF THAT THE U.S. GOVERNMENT SIGN A PEACE AGREEMENT AND END THE KOREAN WAR.

PESSIMISM OF INTEREST INTELLECT NOTE THAT U.S.

DIDN'T WIN THE WAR, OPTIMISM OF WAR SHOWS THERE IS POSSIBILITY THAT WE CAN STILL LEAD THE PEACE.

>> AND TARA.

>> MY A GOES TO NPR ALL THINGS CONSIDER WHICH HAD RECENTLY CARRIED AN IMPORTANT STORY ON THE BENEFIT OF STINKY SWEAT.

>> STINKY SWEAT?

>> OKAY, YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN THIS ONE.

>> A WORLD IN WHICH WE USE EVERY ITEM ON THE MARKET TO MASK OR ELIMINATE UNPLEASANT ODORS, IT IS IMPORTANT TO BE REMINDED THAT STINKY SWEAT IS PART OF THE BODY'S COOLING SYSTEM AND AN INDICATOR THAT THE BACTERIA ON OUR SKIN IS EATING THE FATS, PROTEINS AND OILS IN THE SWEAT AND THUS PRODUCING MOLECULES WHICH PROTECT THE BODY FROM CERTAIN SKIN PROBLEMS.

>> WELL, THAT IS INTERESTING.

SO IT'S ACTUALLY GOOD FOR US TO SWEAT.

I GREW UP WHEN GIRLS DIDN'T SWEAT BUT THIS IS GOOD FOR US.

>> YES.

>> AND MAYBE, BECAUSE OF THE WARM WEATHER WE ARE HAVING THIS WEEK, WE CAN ALL BE A LITTLE MORE TOLERANT OF THE KIND OF SWEAT THAT WE HAVE.

OKAY.

ANIRBAN, I THINK MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THERE IS NO PEACE AGREEMENT IN KOREA.

>> YES, SO THERE IS ARM CITIES AND AFTER THAT, JUST AN ARMISTICE.

THERE IS NO PEACE AGREEMENT.

THESE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WORKING FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

BRUCE IS A CHICAGO PROFESSOR AND I HOPE THERE IS SIGN THAT WE CAN SIGN THE PEACE TREATY FINALLY.

>> WE HOPE YOU FOUND SOME HOPE TONIGHT THANKS FOR WATCHING.

PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE TOPICS WE'VE DISCUSSED.

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