FOUNDATION.

>> Bonnie: THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY: FIRST, ABORTION RATES ARE DOWN, BUT THE RATE OF SELF-INDUCED ABORTIONS IS UP.

THEN, THE DEBATE OVER PRONOUNS: SHOULD THEY BE GENDER NEUTRAL?

BEHIND THE HEADLINES: WOMEN, GIRLS AND FINANCIAL LITERACY.

HELLO, I'M BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO bO THE CONTRARY,b DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL A TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, SELF-INDUCED ABORTIONS .

THE OVERALL RATE OF ABORTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES IS DOWN, BUT MORE WOMEN ARE SELF-INDUCING ABORTIONS.

THOSE ARE THE MAJOR FINDINGS FROM A NEW REPORT PUBLISHED BY THE GUTTMACHER INSTITUTE.

EIGHTEEN PERCENT OF TREATMENT CENTERS REPORTED SEEING A PATIENT AFTER AN ATTEMPTED SELF-INDUCED ABORTION, UP FROM 12% THREE YEARS EARLIER.

MEANWHILE, THE ABORTION RATE DROPPED) CONTINUING A LONG-STANDING TREND.

HUNDREDS OF NEW ABORTION RESTRICTIONS BY STATES COULD HAVE PLAYED A MINOR ROLE IN THIS DROP, BUT THEY ARE NOT SUSPECTED TO BE THE MAIN DRIVER.

THE REPORT CITES THE MAIN REASON FOR THE DROP IS A DROP IN BIRTH AND PREGNANCIES OVERALL.

YET, THESE RESTRICTIONS AND ANXIETY OVER HOW DONALD TRUMP'S SUPREME COURT PICKS WILL VOTE ON ABORTION RIGHTS HAVE LED MORE WOMEN TO SEEK ALTERNATIVES TO GOING TO A DOCTOR.

SOME WOMEN'S RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS ARE HELPING WOMEN GET MORE INFORMATION ON INDUCING THEIR OWN ABORTIONS.

EXPERTS SAY UNDER OPTIMAL CONDITIONS, SUCH A PROCEDURE IS GENERALLY SAFE.

COMPLICATIONS CAN CARRY RISKS FOR SOME WOMEN.

SO ANN STONE, WHAT DO THESE TRENDS TELL US ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH ABORTION IN AMERICANS' THOUGHTS THESE DAYS?

>> SOMETHING WE'VE TRIED TO EXPLAIN ON MY FRIENDS ON THE RIGHT IS THE GENIE IS OUT OF THE BOTTLE.

FIRST THE RIGHT, WE MENTIONED, THAT THE RATE OF ABORTION IS DOWN BECAUSE THE NUMBER OF WOMEN OF CHILDBEARING AGE IS WAY DOWN AS WELLE HEAR IT'S AN ENTIRE MOVEMENT IN THE COUNTRY TO TEACH WOMEN HOW TO SELF INDUCE IN THE EVENT ROE V WADE GETS OVERTURNED.

>> I THINK IT'S TERRIFYING AND IT DEMONSTRATES THAT PEOPLE DON'T FEEL LIKE -- ACCESS TO ABORTION IS GETTING MORE AND MORE RESTRICTIVE AND THEY DON'T FEEL LIKE THEY CAN GO TO MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS FOR HELP.

>> ONLY LOOK AT THE ACTUAL STATISTICS IN THE GOT BUNKER REPORT, THE OVERWHELMING FACTOR DRIVING THIS DECREASE HAS TO DO WITH AN INCREASE IN ACCESS TO CONTRACEPTION WHICH, YES, WE CAN THANK THE CONTRACEPTION MANDATE AND OBAMACARE, BUT LARGE PARTS BECAUSE WOMEN ARE TURNING TOWARDS LONG-ACTING REVERSIBLE FORMS OF CONTRACEPTION SUCH AS HORMONAL COPPER IUD WHICH IS UNDER 1 PERCENT FAILURE RATE IN PRACTICE.

>> I THINK IT'S TERRIFYING TOO WHAT'S HAPPENING TO A WOMAN'S RIGHT TO HAVE AN ACCESS TO SAFE AND LEGAL ABORTION.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT DOING YOUR OWN SELF INDUCED ABORTION AND SELF DIAGNOSING IS AS SICK SAFE.

HAVING SPENT MY ENTIRE ADULT LIFE ON PLANNED PARENTHOOD LOCAL BOARD, STATE BOARDS AND ON THE NATIONAL BOARD, I KNOW HOW DIFFICULT IT IS FOR WOMEN WHO DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO OUR CLINICS.

>> YOU SAY TERRIFYING.

>> I JUST THINK THAT -- I MEAN, ABORTION HAS BECOME SO POLITICIZED IN AMERICA THAT IT'S NO LONGER SEEN AS A PART OF CONFERENCE OF REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE FOR WOMEN.

AND YOU HAVE TO TRUST WOMEN WITH DECISIONS ABOUT OUR BODIES.

I THINK THE FACT WE ARE GOING BACK TO, YOU KNOW, TIME IN THE '60s WHEN WOMEN USE TO DO THIS, NOW IT'S 2019.

WE SHOULD BE MAKING PROGRESS ON WOMEN'S RIGHTS NOT GOING BACKWARDS.

>> ACTUALLY, MY MOTHER DID IN THE LATE 50s, EARLY '60s AND NOT WITH THE CHEMICAL, WITH A KNITTING NEEDLE WHICH IS ALL THEY HAD BACK THEN.

>> BUT TWO POINTS: THE POINT MADE ABOUT CONTRACEPTION, GUTTMACHER IN THE PAST HAS SHOWN 60 PERCENT, SIX AND ZERO, PERCENT OF THE FAILURES DUE TO CONTRACEPTION.

AS CONTRACEPTION GETS IMPROVED, ABORTION RATES WILL GO DOWN, DOWN, DOWN.

I WILL ALSO TELL YOU ROE WILL NOT BE REVERSED.

>> ALSO IF YOU LOOK AT THE BREAKDOWN OF THE DECREASES PER REGION, ABORTION DECREASE JUST AS MUCH, MORE IN CALIFORNIA, THEN THEY DID IN THE SOUTH.

THE PUBLIC 16 PERCENT IN THE PAST 15 YEARS.

IT IS A CHANGE IN CULTURE, A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF CONTRACEPTION WORKS IN BETTER APPRECIATION FOR THE VALUE OF HUMAN LIFEND THAT'S A GOOD THING.

IT'S A GOOD -- [CROSS TALK] >> WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE SELF INDUCING ABORTIONS AND RISKING DEATH?

>> THE NUMBER OF WOMEN WHO ARE STILL SELF INDUCING ABORTIONS, IT IS SO STATISTICALLY INSIGNIFICANT IN RELATION TO THE AMOUNT OF WOMEN WHO ARE NOT GETTING ABORTIONS BECAUSE -- [CROSS TALK] >> INSTITUTE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, TALKING INCREASE IN TREND.

>> YES.

ONLY IN A SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE.

>> ALSO, DOES NOT MATTER FOR V WADE GETS OVERTURNED OR NOT .

IF YOU COME FROM A STATE LIKE I DO IN MISSOURI, BASICALLY WE HAVE ONE ABORTION CLINIC LEFT AND THE GOVERNOR TRIED TO SHUT THAT DOWN.COURTS ARE NOW HOLDING IT OPEN.

BASICALLY, YOU WIPE OUT ROE V WADE IT IS HORRIFYING TO SAY, OH, I HAVE TO GO TO ILLINOIS TO GET A BIT IN ABORTION OR KANSAS TO GET AN ABORTION.

THAT HURTS POOR WOMEN.

ALSO, THE SELF DIAGNOSING, YOU DON'T KNOW OF ANY TOPICAL PREGNANCY.

WERE YOU DOING -- >> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> ALSO, THANK YOU FOR THE CONTEXT, BUT ONE WOMAN DOING THIS TO HERSELF, ONE WOMAN TOO MANY.

EVERYONE FIVE COUNTS.

>> EVEN WITH THE -- EVEN CHEMICALLY WHICH IS WITH THE MIFEPRISTONE WHICH IS PRETTY SAFE [CROSS TALK] >> OF PUT AN PER COMPARISON TO GIVING YOURSELF AN ABORTION WITH A NEEDLE IS, I MEAN -- >> NO WOMEN ARE DOING THAT ANYMORE.

>> I THINK OF THE LINES, THE HECTOR -- THE SYMPTOMS PHYSICAL ASSAULTS, CERTAINLY, THE VERBAL ASSAULTS, THE PROTESTS THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION -- I MEAN, IT'S MUCH OF THOSE -- MANY CLINICS IN THE PAST HAVE BEEN PROTECTED BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SENDING OUT MARSHALS.

THIS JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS NOT SENDING OUT ANY MARSHALS.

>> THAT'S A BIG PART OF WHAT SELF-INDUCED HAS GONE UP TOO, BECAUSE WOMEN ARE FREE TO GO TO CLINICS.

>> AS DEANNA SAID, THAT'S A TINY PERCENTAGE OF WHAT'S GOING ON HERE THAN WHY DON'T -- WIRE AND PRO-CHOICE REPUBLICANS ASKING THIS ADMINISTRATION TO ENFORCE THE LAWS, WHICH IS YOU CAN'T COME WITHIN SO MANY FEET OF SOMEBODY TRYING TO ACCESS THE CLINIC?

>> RIGHT.

IT PRESUMES WE ARE NOT, BECAUSE WE ARE.

WE ARE ALSO LOOKING AT OTHER ALTERNATIVES FOR THE WOMEN AS WELL.

THE PROBLEM IS YOU HAVE THINGS -- TALK ABOUT THE PROTESTS, LOOK AT THE DOCTORS THAT HAVE BEEN SHOT LIKE DR.

TAILORED KILLED IN HIS CHURCH WHILE HE'S USHERING.

>> I WANT TO SAY A COUPLE THINGS.

ONE, NOT HAPPENING IN ST. LOUIS AND WOMEN WERE NOT BEING PROTECTED AS THEY GO TO THE ABORTION CLINIC THERE.

I DRIVE BY THAT EVERY DAY.

NUMBER TWO, THE ARTICLE ALSO TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE ARE ALL THESE GOOGLE SEARCHES, THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF THEM , WOMEN LOOKING UP COAT HANGERS AND ABORTIONS.

>> 18 PERCENT OF ALL PREGNANCIES IN THIS COUNTRY AND IN ABORTION.

>> LET HER FINISH.

>> SO WHAT YOU HAVE RIGHT NOW IS YOU HAVE GENERATIONS OF WOMEN THAT THOUGHT THEY COULD GO TO DOCTORS AND CLINICS AND HAVE A SAFE, LEGAL ABORTION .

NOW THEY ARE SAYING WHERE DO I GO?

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO?

THEY'RE GOING ON THE INTERNET AND WE SIT HERE AND TALK ABOUT IT WITH THE SPELL, THAT BILL, YOU CAN DO THAT.

THERE ARE TONS OF WOMEN OUT THERE THAT DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.

THEY ARE IN A BRAVE, NEW WORLD.

>> ONLY THAT, IT NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE ME HOW MANY PARTICULARLY YOUNG WOMEN DON'T EVEN KNOW WHEN THEY ARE -- UNTIL THEY ARE 3 AND 4 MONTHS PREGNANT.

SHOULDN'T THERE BE -- AND THAT, OF COURSE, A LOT OF THAT YOU COULD PUT ON THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT FOR ONLY ALLOWING WHERE THEY HAVE THE POLITICAL POWER TO MAKE THAT DECISION, ONLY ALLOWING ABSTINENCE, ONLY SEX EDUCATION WHICH IS LIKE NO SEX.

>> THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TRYING TO PUSH IN THE SENATE FOR CONTRACEPTION WITH DEREGULATION TO MAKE IT THE MILLIONS OF WOMEN WHO ARE STILL NOT COVERED BY HEALTH INSURANCE.

THAT THEY CAN OBTAIN OVER-THE-COUNTER BOTH BIRTH CONTROL.

THAT'S A BILL PROPOSED BY CORY GARDNER JONI ERNST AND THAT'S IT BILL THE DEMOCRATS, PARTICULARLY ONCE LOBBIED BY PLANETARY PARENTHOOD, HAVE CONTINUED TO PUSH BACK AGAINST PICTURES BEFORE CONSUMPTION IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THIS COUNTRY HAS.

>> ABSOLUTELY, THAT'S VERY, VERY TRUE.

THE ONLY WAY THAT , ONCE AGO, THE REPUBLICANS ARE PULLING AWAY MONEY FROM PLANNED PARENTHOOD THAT GIVES BIRTH -- >> TO ALLOCATE TO OTHER TITLE X FACILITIES.

[CROSS TALK] >> TITLE X FACILITIES LIKE ANTIABORTION CLINICS -- > WERE THE ONES THAT OFFER CONTRACEPTION.

>> NO.

THE ONES THAT ARE RUN BY THE CHURCH TO AN OFFER ANY.

>> AND EVERYONE DOLLARS SPENT ON ANY .

>> READ BACK SEVEN DOLLARS IN SAVINGS -- >> WAIT A SECOND, YOU ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT -- SHE WERE NOT INCLUDING -- I'M NOT SURE LATER TITLE X TO BE HONEST.

BUT THE RELIGIOUS CENTERS OPPOSES ABORTION CLINICS, BUT THEY ARE PROBABLY WAY MORE -- WAIT A MINUTE.

THERE ARE WAY MORE OF THEM NOW AND THEN THERE ARE ACTUAL WOMEN'S HEALTH CLINICS, SO -- THEY ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE IT OUT UNDER ANY -- >> [CROSS TALK] >> I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW WAS READING AN ARTICLE -- [CROSS TALK] >> AND PRETTY SURE UNDER BUSH, THEY STARTED TO GET FEDERAL FUNDING .

>> EXCUSE ME IF I MAY.

IT'S NOT JUST CLINICS.

YOU CAN GO TO A DOCTOR THAT ARE NOT UNDER GAG RULES.

ANOTHER THING THAT SHOULD HAPPEN IS 1-800-DOCTORS OUGHT TO HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THAT DOCTOR IS WILLING TO CANCEL ON ABORTION.

I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY USEFUL.

>> MAKE HIM OR HERSELF A TARGET?

YOU KNOW, I WOULD BE IDENTIFIED -- ELECTRIFY TO IDENTIFY MYSELF AS.

>> ALL THE LOONEY TUNES OUT THERE -- >> THEY FIND OUT ANYWAY, WHETHER IT'S ON 1-800-DOCTORS ARE NOT.

YOU SEE PROTESTERS IN FRONT OF THESE APARTMENT BUILDINGS WITH DOCTORS IN AND YOU ARE SHOCKED THAT THEY FOUND OUT THE DOCTORS X OR Y.

THE POINT IS TO PROVIDE INFO THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR.

>> Bonnie: LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

PLEASE FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.

FROM ABORTIONS TO GENDER AND GRAMMAR.

GRAMMY AWARD-WINNING SINGER SAM SMITH RECENTLY REVEALED HE IS GENDER NONBINARY, OR RATHER THAT THEY ARE GENDER NON-BINARY AND WOULD PREFER TO BE REFERRED TO END THE PLURAL THIRD-PERSON INSTEAD OF IN THE GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT FIRST PERSON SINGULAR.

THIS IS BUT THE LATEST TWIST IN THE ATTEMPT BY SOME MEMBERS OF THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY TO BE REFERRED TO IN PLURAL AND NOT AS HE OR SHE.

THE ISSUE SETS UP ALL KINDS OF QUESTIONS, FIRST AS TO WHETHER ALL MEMBERS OF THE COMMUNITY AGREE THIS IS THE WAY FORWARD AND IF NOT, HOW TO KEEP TRACK OF HOW EACH PERSON WISHES TO BE IDENTIFIED.

THEN THERE'S THE QUESTION OF CHANGING GRAMMAR RULES IN GRADE SCHOOL, SOMETHING WHICH OPPONENTS OF GAY RIGHTS ARE QUITE LIKELY TO CHALLENGE.

>> Bonnie: SO THIS USE OF THE PLURAL THIRD PERSON PLURAL INSTEAD OF THE FIRST PERSON SINGULAR, GOOD IDEA OR BAD?

>> YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE THIS IS A COMMUNITY THAT'S EDUCATING US.

AND I THINK IT'S AN EDUCATION AND THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE PUTTING FORWARD.

YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK I'M IN A POSITION TO BE LIKE, ACTUALLY, IF YOU WANT TO BE CALLED AT THEN THAT'S TOO CONFUSING FOR ME AND INCONVENIENT.

SO I APPROACH THIS AND DO IT AS AN EDUCATION.

>> THE SUBJECT MAKES ME SO SAD.

MY DEAREST FRIEND IN THE WORLD WAS A GAY MALE WHO DIED OF AIDS.

I CAN ONLY THINK OF WHAT HE WOULD SAY.

HE WOULD THINK IT WAS RIDICULOUS THAT THERE ONLY TWO SEXES.

YOU KNOW WHAT, I DON'T KNOW.

I GUESS I DON'T CARE AS MUCH.

I JUST DON'T WANT TO SEE PEOPLE FIRED IF THEY MISUSE A PRONOUN.

IF THIS REALLY IS THAT IMPORTANT TO THEM, UNWILLING TO HONOR THEM THAT WAY , BUT, AGAIN, PEOPLE SHOULD NOT HAVE LEGAL CONSEQUENCES IF THEY MISUSE A PRONOUN.

>> YEAH.

I KIND OF FEEL THE SAME WAY THAT YOU DO AND THAT YOU DO.

I'M FLUENT ON THIS THINK WE CAN ALWAYS ADJUST.

LANGUAGE IS ALWAYS EVOLVING.

IT'S NOT A STAGNANT THING.

IF WE CAN USE THE DAY AND OTHER TERMS AND I CAN SAY THEY LEFT THEIR HOME AS AN INDIVIDUAL LEFT THEIR PHONE THERE, THEN I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM.

I DON'T THINK YOU SHOULD BE FIRED.

BUT AS TIME EVOLVES AND LANGUAGE EVOLVES, WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> AND PRETTY ATTITUDINAL THE LIBERTARIAN ILLNESS IN THE SENSE THAT IF SOMEONE WANTS TO IDENTIFY AS A PIECE OF JELL-O, I DON'T CARE.

IT'S UP TO YOU TO DEFINE THE TERMS OF HOW YOU WANT TO BE CALLED, HOW YOU IDENTIFY AND WHAT NOT.

BUT I THINK IT'S STRANGE HOW THE LGBT MOVEMENT HAS EVOLVED FROM REALLY CARING ABOUT YOUR RIGHT TO EXIST ON EITHER SIDE OF THE GENDER BINARY TO IGNORING ITS EXISTENCE AT ALL.

FROM SOCIAL PERSPECTIVE, I DON'T CARE TOO MUCH BECAUSE IT DOES NOT AFFECT ME HOW OTHER PEOPLE WANT TO LIVE THEIR LIVES BUT IT BECOMES A PROBLEM WHEN WE START ACTING AS THOUGH SCIENTIFIC GENDER BINARY DOES NOT EXIST.

THESE ARE PROBLEMS THAT WE DON'T NECESSARILY WANT THIS LEVEL OF WOKENESS APPROACHING BIOLOGICAL SCIENCES AND THE MEDICAL SCIENCES.

I THINK THERE WAS A WAY FOR US TO AFFIRM THAT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO IDENTIFY YOURSELF AS YOU WANT IN YOUR DESERVING OF HUMAN DIGNITY AND RESPECT AND ALSO NOT PUNISHING PEOPLE WHO DON'T NECESSARILY REMEMBER TO USE A PLURAL PRONOUN TO REFER TO A SINGULAR PERSON.

>> YOU KNOW, YOU REFER TO GETTING FIRED FOR MISUSING A PRONOUN POINT I ASSUME YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CALLING A LGBTQ PERSON SHE OR HE WHEN THAT PERSON WOULD PREFER THEY.

THAT'S ACTUALLY THE MISUSE, THE IMPROPER GRAMMATICALLY USED -- >> I'M SAYING IN GENERAL I DON'T WANT PEOPLE FIRED FOR THAT KIND OF STUFF -- >> BUT LET ME, BECAUSE YOU AND I BOTH GO BACK SO FAR, WHEN GLORIA STEINEM CAME OUT WITH MS. MAGAZINE, THE WOMEN'S MOVEMENT CREATED A NEW WORD, NOT DISTORT THE ALREADY LONG TIME MEANING OF THE GRAMMAR THAT HAS BEEN PART OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE FOR CENTURIES.

THAT IS WHERE I THINK -- THAT'S WHY THIS IS SO CONTROVERSIAL .

MS. WAS NOT CONTROVERSIAL AT ALL, BECAUSE NO ONE -- >> IT WAS.

MAYBE NOT IN YOUR CIRCLE, BUT, YEAH, IT WAS.

IT TOOK A LONG TIME BEFORE CONSERVATIVE WOMEN COULD USE THAT AND GET AWAY WITH IT.

>> BUT THERE WAS MEDIA COVERAGE LIKE IF THERE IS EVIDENCE ABOUT HOW HORRIBLE.

>> MAYBE NOT THE DRUMBEAT BUT MY CIRCLE IS PRETTY INTENSE.

THE ONLY PERSON AT THE TABLE WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS HERMAPHRODITE, SOMEONE WHO HAS BOTH, AND EVEN THEY HAVE TO CHOOSE.

YOU NO ONE TOOAGO FROM SISTER, SHE HAD TO CHOOSE FEMALE.

SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CASES.

>> DOCTORS DID BECAUSE IT WAS EASIER TO MAKE A CHILD OF EITHER -- OR WITH BITS AND PIECES OF -- >> IF THEY HAD A VAGINA.

>> RIGHT, TO A GIRL.

>> SO THERE ARE LEGITIMATE SCIENTIFIC REASONS AT TIMES YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT WILL BE BINARY.

OVERALL, I JUST THINK IN SOME AREAS, IT'S GOTTEN OUT OF CONTROL WHERE PEOPLE ARE LOSING THEIR JOBS OR NOT EVEN JUST BEING FIRED, BUT BEING DRUMMED OUT OF WERE BEING SHUNNED.

>> I HAVE NOT HEARD ABOUT.

>> LOTS OF ARTICLES.

IN MY CIRCLE, I SEE A LOT.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT THIS PERSPECTIVE: ON ONE HAND, A PERSON MAY FEEL VERY SUPPORTIVE OF LGBTQ RIGHTS.

ON THE OTHER HAND, NOT WANTING -- NOT FEELING COMFORTABLE USING WHAT ARE CONSIDERED IMPROPER PERMANENCE.

IS THAT PERSON THEN THEREFORE ANTI-GAY?

>> I DON'T THINK THEY ARE ANTI-GAY AT ALL .

I MEAN, THERE'S A COMFORT LEVEL AND HOW THEY WANT TO TALK AND ARE USED TO TALKING AND ADDRESSING .

I DON'T THINK THAT MEANS THAT THEY ARE AGAINST A GAY PERSON.

I JUST THINK IT'S A COMFORT LEVEL INTERCHANGE LEVEL, AND I THINK WE WILL HAVE TO BE FLUID AND GIVE THE SOME TIME AND GIVE PEOPLE SOME TIME.

>> WE WILL GET THERE.

>> THE ONLY AREA I CARE ABOUT IS WITH CHILDREN.

OBVIOUSLY THE TRANS MOVEMENT HAS BEEN IMPORTANT FOR THOSE ADULTS WHO CONTINUE TO HAVE GENDER DYSPHORIA INTO ADULTHOOD.

IF YOU LOOK AT SCIENCE, IT'S RELATIVELY SETTLED THAT ALLOWING AN ADULT WHO I STILL IDENTIFIES AS SOMETHING OTHER THAN BIOLOGICAL A GENDER TO AFFIRM THAT, IT DECREASES SUICIDALITY.

HOWEVER, OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF CHILDREN WHO HAVE GENDER DYSPHORIA TEND TO SUBSIST OUT OF IT AND IDENTIFY AS GAY OR LESBIAN.

HOWEVER, THIS PUSH FOR US TO AFFIRM FIVE-YEAR-OLDS WHO BELIEVE THAT THEY ARE BOYS INSTEAD OF GIRLS RATHER THAN SAY LET'S WORK IT OUT, MAYBE YOU'RE JUST A TOMBOY, MAYBE YOU ACTUALLY WILL IDENTIFY AS ANOTHER GENDERAS ADULT.

YOU SHOULD BE THEN TREATED WITH RESPECT.

BUT THE STRANGE PROGRESSIVE PUSH TO KIND OF ENCOURAGE THE IDEA THAT GENDER IS FLUID, IT DEFIES MOST SOCIAL SCIENCE AND MOST BIOLOGICAL SCIENCE, SCIENTIFIC STUDIES THAT DEMONSTRATE THAT GENDER IS A PRETTY FIXED PART OF YOUR IDENTITY.

WHEN YOU'RE TRANSGENDER, THAT IS A VERY STRONG AND SALIENT FEELING THAT DOES NOT NECESSARILY EBB AND FLOW BASED ON SOCIAL AFFIRMATION.

>> IF A LITTLE GIRL LIKE STARBUCKS, IS THAT BAD?

NO, THAT'S EVOLUTION.

>> Bonnie: BEHIND THE HEADLINES: DO WOMEN HAVE A DIFFERENT RELATIONSHIP WITH MONEY THAN MEN?

YES, THEY DO, ACCORDING TO A RECENT SURVEY.

WHILE WOMEN ARE MORE DRIVEN TO REACH FINANCIAL INDEPENDENCE, THEY FALL BEHIND IN INVESTMENT AND SAVINGS, COMPARED WITH MEN.

THAT'S ACCORDING TO A 2018 SURVEY CONDUCTED BY LOGICA RESEARCH ON YOUNG ADULTS AGED 16-25.>> Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz: YOUNG WOMEN ARE MORE LIKELY TO SAY THAT THEY WANTED TO BE FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT FROM THEIR PARENTS, AND THAT THEY UNDERSTOOD THE IMPORTANCE OF PLANNING FOR THEIR FUTURE.

THEY WERE MORE LIKELY TO SPEND 30% LESS MONEY THAN YOUNG MEN, THEY WERE MORE LIKELY TO HAVE A SECOND JOB, BUT THEY HAD 40% LESS IN SAVINGS.

>> Bonnie: CARRIE SCHWAB-POMERANTZ, BOARD CHAIR AND PRESIDENT OF THE CHARLES SCHWAB FOUNDATION, SAYS THE MATH DOESN'T WORK UNTIL YOU DIG A LITTLE DEEPER.

>> Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz: HALF OF THE YOUNG WOMEN WERE LIKELY TO HAVE AN INVESTMENT ACCOUNT VERSUS THE BOYS.

AND IF YOU ASK THEM, IF WE IF I, YOU KNOW, IF WE GAVE YOU EXTRA CASH, WOULD YOU INVEST IT AND ONLY HALF THE NUMBER OF YOUNG WOMEN SAID YES.

SO WE'RE FALLING BEHIND RIGHT AWAY.

>> Bonnie: THE FINANCIAL GENDER GAP COULD BE NARROWED IF WOMEN IMPROVED THEIR MANAGEMENT OF DAY-TO-DAY FINANCES, ACCORDING TO SCHWAB-POMERANTZ.

>> Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz: BUT THEN THEY WERE MORE LIKELY TO BORROW FROM THEIR PARENTS, THEY WERE ALSO MORE LIKELY TO SKIP A CREDIT CARD PAYMENT.

SO SOME OF IT JUST LOOKS IT DIDN'T DIDN'T REALLY ADD UP.

SO THEY HAVE THE RIGHT MINDSET, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT DESIRES, IT'S IS PUTTING THEM INTO ACTION.

IT COULD BE JUST THE PRESSURES, THE SOCIAL PRESSURES AMONG THEIR FRIENDS, YOU KNOW, DRESSING NICELY.

>> Bonnie: PARENTS TEND TO TEACH SONS ABOUT BUILDING WEALTH WHILE TEACHING DAUGHTERS ABOUT FISCAL RESTRAINT.

THEY THEREBY SET UP DIFFERENT FINANCIAL EXPECTATIONS FROM EARLY ON.

>> Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz: PARENTS TALK TO THEIR DAUGHTERS DIFFERENTLY THAN THEIR SONS WHEN IT COMES TO MONEY.

WITH THEIR DAUGHTERS, THEY TALK ABOUT THE SHORT TERM CONCEPTS, YOU KNOW, SUCH AS SAVINGS AND HOUSEHOLD EXPENDITURES, BUT WITH THEIR SONS, THEY TALK ABOUT STATE PLANNING, THE STOCK MARKET, BORROWING, YOU KNOW, AND THIS, THAT'S ALL ABOUT WEALTH CREATION.

SO KNOW, AGAIN, WE'RE SORT OF SETTING OUR DAUGHTERS UP FOR FAILURE, LONG TERM FAILURE.

>> Bonnie: SCHWAB-POMERANTZ SAT ON PRESIDENT GEORGE W BUSH'S AND PRESIDENT BARAK OBAMA'S ADVISORY COUNCILS THAT PROMOTED FINANCIAL LITERACY.

SHE ADVOCATES FOR TEACHING FINANCIAL LITERACY IN SCHOOLS.

>> Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz: ONLY 17 STATES IN THIS COUNTRY REQUIRE SOME TYPE OF PERSONAL FINANCE EMBEDDED IN CURRICULUM.

AND THEN THERE'S ONLY FIVE STATES THAT REQUIRED AS A STANDALONE.

AND THE FIRST STATE REQUIRED AS A STANDALONE WAS UTAH.

AND THE REASON THAT THEY REQUIRED OR THEY, YOU KNOW, WHERE DID THAT IS, BECAUSE THEY SAW THAT THEY HAD SOME OF THE HIGHEST BANKRUPTCY RATES IN THE COUNTRY >> Bonnie: SHE'S ALSO HELPED CREATE A PROGRAM, MONEY MATTERS, FOR THE BOYS AND GIRLS CLUBS OF AMERICA.

>> Carrie Schwab-Pomerantz: WHAT WE HAVE FOUND IS THAT THESE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO GO THROUGH OUR PROGRAM, THE MONEY MATTERS PROGRAM, ARE MORE LIKELY TO SEEK OUT COLLEGE AND SEEK OUT SCHOLARSHIPS AND FUNDING FOR COLLEGE.

SO YOU COULD SEE RIGHT THERE, THAT'S ALL ABOUT ECONOMIC MOBILITY, AND NEW OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE AND WHAT DIFFERENCE THAT FINANCIAL LITERACY CAN MAKE IN SOMEONE'S LIFE.

>> Bonnie: WHILE IT SEEMS LIKE A REALLY GOOD IDEA TO HAVE UNIVERSAL FINANCIAL LITERACY CLASSES FOR HIGH SCHOOLERS, I MEAN, I CANNOT IMAGINE WHY IT'S NOT BEING DONE ALREADY, BUT WHAT ABOUT -- WHO ARE THESE PARENTS THAT ARE NOT TEACHING THEIR GIRLS TO BE FINANCIALLY LITERATE?

I THOUGHT MY PARENTS DID IT AND THAT WAS 50 YEARS AGO.

>> OH, YEAH.

I HAD TO PUT ASIDE ANY MONEY I MADE, A BIG PORTION OF THAT WENT INTO SAVINGS.

YOU DID NOT TOUCH IT.

>> I REMEMBER SAVING FOR MY VERY FIRST JOB -- I REMEMBER NOT WORRYING ABOUT HAVING ENOUGH MONEY TO RETIRE COMFORTABLY IN MY FIRST JOB WHEN I WAS ABOUT 19 YEARS OLD AND PUTTING PART OF THAT AWAY.

I MEAN, WHAT'S -- >> I THINK IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE I'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET THE TAKE AWAY.

AS SHE SAID, THERE ARE CONFLICTING THINGS GOING ON HERE.

I WONDER IF IT'S NOT ALSO A CONFIDENCE THING, TO DREAM BIG LIKE THE GUYS.

THEY ARE INVESTING, LOOKING INTO THE FUTURE, MAKING MONEY.

WOMEN ARE MORE HOARDING AND HOUSEHOLD GOODS AND TAUGHT THAT WAY.

I'M WONDERING IF THAT'S HOW WE TREAT AND TEACH OUR WOMEN THAT YOU ARE NOT THE BIG PICTURE PEOPLE, YOU WILL NOT BE MAKING THE MONEY, YOU WILL BE TAKING CARE OF THE LITERAL THINGS.

>> I DID SEMINARS ON THE SPREAD FINANCIAL LITERACY AND TEACHING NEGOTIATION ARE NOT SKILLS THEY PICK UP AT HOME.

IT'S THE WAY MOST NUCLEAR FAMILIES HAVE BEEN ORGANIZED, AND IT'S STARTING TO CHANGE.

IT'S SLOW.

IT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS WE CAN DO FOR WOMEN'S EMPOWERMENT NEXT TO TEACHING WOMEN'S HISTORY.

>> ALSO SEEING MORE WOMEN WHO ARE BREADWINNERS NOW AND THEIR FAMILIES.

I ALSO FEEL LIKE -- >> YOU KNOW WHAT ELSE I DON'T THINK SHE MENTIONED WAS WOMEN, IF THEY HAVE MONEY, ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO SPEND IT ON THEIR KIDS AND SAVE FOR RETIREMENT> I ACTUALLY DON'T REALLY -- I DON'T KNOW IF I AGREE WITH THE PACKAGE ON WHAT SHE'S SAYING, BECAUSE I KNOW SO MANY WOMEN WHO -- I MEAN , I WISH I WAS TAUGHT LIKE THAT WHEN I WAS GROWING UP.

I THINK FINANCIAL LITERACY TAKES PRECEDENCE OVER -- I DON'T KNOW, NOW I WONDER WHY WE WERE LEARNING ALGEBRA WHEN WE SHOULD'VE BEEN TALK MORE ABOUT MONEY MANAGEMENT.

ASIDE FROM THAT, MANY WOMEN I KNOW OF DIFFERENT AGES, THEY ARE THE BOSS.

I LOOK AT THEM AND I'M LIKE, WOW, I WISH I COULD BE LIKE THAT ABOUT WHETHER THEY OWN THEIR OWN BUSINESS OR AN INVESTMENT BANKER, WHETHER THEY ARE THE BREADWINNER, I KNOW A LOT OF TV ANCHORS.

IT'S AMAZING.

I APPLAUD WOMEN.

>> SO YOU ARE REFERRING TO AN ANECDOTAL SLICE OF A PRIVILEGE SEGMENT OF AMERICAN SOCIETY.

IT WAS EMBARRASSING TO ME ABOUT THE PACKAGES THE IDEA THAT IT'S NEVER BEEN EASIER TO MAKE YOUR MONEY WORK FOR YOU WHEN YOU ARE USING IT.

THERE APPS LIKE ROBIN HOOD, QUEEN BASE WHERE YOU CAN INVEST IN CRYPTO.

THE FACT THAT WOMEN, I BELIEVE THEY ARE REFERRING TO GEN Z WOMEN, ARE NOT TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THAT.

>> BUT ON THE FLIPSIDE, THERE IS ALSO -- THERE IS PAYPAL, THEN VENMO, YOU CAN SPEND YOUR MONEY WILL ALLOW -- >> [CROSS TALK] >> THE FIRST THING YOU LEARN ANY ECONOMICS OR FINANCE CLASS CI, STILL IN HIGH SCHOOL, RETURNS ON INVESTMENT OR GREATER THAN ON LABOR.

SO THERE'S IMMEDIACY TO GEN Z THAT IT THINK DOESN'T -- DID NOT EXIST FOR MY GENERATION, MILLENNIALS, BECAUSE WE DO NOT GROW UP WITH THE CELL PHONE IN THE POCKET.

THAT BEING SAID, IT'S NEVER BEEN EASIER TO LEARN THE INS AND OUTS OF TRAINING, EACH DAYTRADING.

SO IF GIRLS ARE NOT TAKING ADVANTAGE, THAT'S NOT THE PATRIOTIC, THAT'S GROSS NOT TAKING OWNERSHIP OF THEIR FUTURE.

>> I DID NOT GET TO ECON CLASSES UNTIL I WENT TO COLLEGE.> IT'S RIGHT IN YOUR POCKET.

>> WE ARE OUT OF THE TIME.

GREAT DEBATE.

WE WILL CONTINUE SOME OTHER TIME.

THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

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