♪♪ >> SEN. BRAUN ON COVID-19 >> SEN. BRAUN ON COVID-19 VACCINE MANDATES.

THE STATE IS HOLDING A LOT OF LOCAL INCOME TAX IN RESERVE.

PLUS, FEDERAL SCHOOL FUNDING TRANSPARENCY AND MORE ON INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THE WEEK ENDING DECEMBER 10TH, 2021.

>> INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORTERS OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS, AND BY ICE MILLER, A FULL SERVICE LAW FIRM COMMITTED TO HELPING CLIENTS BUILD, GROW AND PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS.

MORE AT ICEMILLER.COM.

>> THIS WEEK, INDIANA U-S SENATOR MIKE BRAUN SAYS HE DOESN'T SUPPORT GOVERNMENT MANDATES AROUND THE COVID-19 VACCINE - INCLUDING EFFORTS TO STOP COMPANIES FROM REQUIRING IT.

BRAUN IS CURRENTLY LEADING A BIPARTISAN FIGHT IN CONGRESS TO HALT PRESIDENT BIDEN'S RULE THAT WOULD FORCE COMPANIES WITH AT LEAST 100 EMPLOYEES TO EITHER GET THEIR WORKERS VACCINATED OR UNDERGO WEEKLY COVID TESTING.

>> THE GOP SENATOR SAYS HE THINKS THE COST OF LOSING EMPLOYEES OUTWEIGHS THE BENEFITS OF GETTING MORE PEOPLE VACCINATED AGAINST A VIRUS THAT'S STILL KILLING ABOUT TWO DOZEN HOOSIERS A DAY.

>> U.S. SEN. MIKE BRAUN (R-IND.

): BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN SPENDING TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO GET BUSINESSES TO KEEP THEIR EMPLOYEES THROUGH THIS WHOLE VENTURE.

>> BUT BRAUN ALSO ISN'T BACKING MEASURES THAT WOULD PREVENT COMPANIES FROM REQUIRING THE VACCINE ON THEIR OWN.

INDIANA STATEHOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE CURRENTLY PUSHING A BILL THAT WOULD EFFECTIVELY DO JUST THAT.

>> U.S. SEN. MIKE BRAUN (R-IND.

): I'M A LITTLE APPREHENSIVE ON THAT HAPPENING SIMPLY BECAUSE OF WHAT IT MIGHT MEAN TO WHERE YOU'D TRY TO IMPACT BUSINESSES IN THEIR OWN DECISIONS ON OTHER ISSUES DOWN THE ROAD - THE PRECEDENT IT MIGHT SET.

>> BRAUN ENCOURAGES PEOPLE TO GET THE VACCINE, CALLING IT A “MIRACLE.” >> IS THIS A RISKY POSITION FOR BRAUN, POLITICALLY?

IT'S THE FIRST QUESTION FOR OUR INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW PANEL DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY.

REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN.

JON SCHWANTES, HOST OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

AND NIKI KELLY, STATEHOUSE REPORTER FOR THE FORT WAYNE JOURNAL GAZETTE.

I'M INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATEHOUSE REPORTER BRANDON SMITH.

ANN DELANEY, BRAUN SEEMS TO BE IN ROUGHLY THE SAME PLACE AS GOV.

HOLCOMB ON THIS ISSUE.

IS THAT A RISKY ONE FOR THEM IN THE GOP?

>> I THINK IT MAY BE, ACTUALLY, BECAUSE HE WANTS TO SHOW HE'S NOT A COMPLETE CRAZY AN ANTI-VACCINER.

HE WANTS TO SHOW SOME RATIONALE BASIS FOR HIS POSITION.

THAT'S ALL IT IS, THIS WHOLE GIMMICK WITH THIS SUPPOSED BIPARTISAN EFFORT TO STOP MANDATING VACCINES, JUST SO WE COULD STOP HAVING TWO DOZEN HOOSIERS DIE A DAY.

IT IS -- IT'S OBVIOUSLY FRUITLESS, BECAUSE EVEN IF THEY MANAGED TO PASS IT, IT'S GOING TO BE VETOED BY THE PRESIDENT.

SO IT IS NOT GOING TO GO ANYWHERE.

SO ALL HE'S DOING IS TRYING TO WAVE ONE FLAG TO, ONE PIECE OF RED MEAT TO HIS BASE AND ANOTHER PIECE TO HIS EMPLOYEES, TO PROTECT THEIR EMPLOYEES -- ONE THING TO SAY WE'VE PAID THEM AND KEPT THEM EMPLOYED, WELL, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE EMPLOYED IF THEY DON'T LIVE THROUGH THIS.

AND YOU KNOW, I THINK HIS POSITION IS REALLY NOT VERY WELL THOUGHT OUT.

BUT HAVING SAID THAT, I DO THINK IT IS SOMEWHAT RISKY FOR HIM AND FOR GOVERNOR HOLCOMB BECAUSE THE CRAZIES AND THEIR PARTY, THE ANTI-VAXERS ARE CONTROLLING THEIR PARTY AND BOTH WANT TO RUN FOR OTHER OFFICE AND WILL MACE OPPOSITION BY PEOPLE LIKE TODD ROKITA WHO ARE NOT GOING TO SPLIT HAIRS ON VACCINE, THEY ARE GOING TO BE COMPLETELY ANTI-VACCINE.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN, ARE MIKE BRAUN AND ERIC HOLCOMB RISKING LOSES OR UPSETTING A CORE CONSTITUENCY FOR REPUBLICANS SAYING BUSINESSES SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHOOSE WHETHER OR NOT TO MANDATE THESE VACCINES?

>> IT'S INTERESTING.

THAT POSITION IS VIEWED AS MODERATE, IF NOT LEFT LEANING.

BUT IT IS ACTUALLY THE MOST IDEOLOGICAL CONSERVATIVE ONE, THE ONE THAT SAYS, LET'S ALLOW BUSINESSES IN THEIR UNIQUE CIRCUMSTANCES TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT -- AND WEIGH THE VARIABLES OF A VACCINE MANDATE THAT MAY ALIENATE WORKFORCE, A VACCINE MANDATE THAT MAY PROTECT THEIR CUSTOMERS, VACCINE -- LACK OF A VACCINE MANDATE THAT MAY REFLECT THE TYPE OF BUSINESS THEY HAVE.

SURE, THEY HAVE A THOUSAND EMPLOYEES, BUT THEY'RE ALL SITTING AT HOME BY THEMSELVES.

I THINK HIS POSITION -- AND THEN PAIR THAT WITH LIKE THE GOVERNOR HAS, AN ENCOURAGEMENT, FOLKS GET VACCINATED AND TRY TO BUILD PUBLIC TRUST, ESPECIALLY IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BASE WHO ARE DISTRUSTFUL OF THAT.

IT IS A POSITION I THINK FROM THE GOVERNOR AND IN MY OPINION, FROM MIKE BRAUN, ONE OF LEADERSHIP AND RATIONALITY, AND CONSERVATIVE -- APPLYING CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES THAT KEEPS THE GOVERNMENT OUT OF THESE PRIVATE BUSINESSES, AND LET THEM MAKE THEIR OWN DECISION.

>> IF IT'S CONSERVATIVE, YOU SHOULD LET EVERY INDIVIDUAL MAKE THEIR OWN DECISION, THAT'S WHAT THE REPUBLICANS STAND FOR.

>> THOSE INDIVIDUALS CAN ALSO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO WORK THERE.

IT IS A PRETTY ROBUST JOB MARKET.

IF YOU CAN WORK FOR SOMEBODY ELSE DOWN THE STREET.

>> ABSOLUTELY, LET THEM GO.

>> THAT'S THE MARKET AT WORK.

>> EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT, JON SCHWANTES.

MIKE BRAUN, WHEN SPEAKING TO REPORTERS THIS WEEK SAID, HE'S APPREHENSIVE AS WE HEARD IN THE PIECE, APPREHENSIVE ABOUT TELLING BUSINESSES THEY CAN'T MANDATE THE VACCINE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME HE ALSO SAYS EVERY BUSINESS AND EVERY INDIVIDUAL SHOULD BE ABLE TO DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES WHETHER OR NOT TO GET VACCINATED.

ARE THOSE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE?

>> THAT SEEMS A BIT DIFFICULT TRYING TO PARSE THAT PARTICULAR POSITION.

ON ANY NUMBER OF FRONTS.

NOT ONLY RELATED SPECIFICALLY TO VACCINATIONS AMID A PANDEMIC, BUT OTHER TYPES OF MEDICAL QUESTIONS, REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS QUESTIONS, WOMEN, WE COULD REALLY DEVOTE A SHOW READING THE TEA LEAVES.

THERE IS SOME INHERENT INCONSISTENCY HERE.

I THINK MIKE'S ASSESSMENT IS RIGHT ABOUT THIS.

THIS IS BASICALLY NOT A SORT OF A RASH POSITION HE'S TAKEN.

IT ESSENTIALLY IS DEFENDING THE STATUS QUO.

BY THAT, I MEAN WE CURRENTLY HAVE, IN INDIANA, FOR INSTANCE, AN AT-WILL STATE, EMPLOYERS CAN FIRE YOU IF THEY DON'T LIKE THE WAY YOU PART YOUR HAIR OR BLOW YOUR NOSE.

THEY DON'T NEED A REASON AS SIGNIFICANT AS A REFUSAL TO GET A VACCINATION.

SO AND WE'VE TRADITIONALLY GIVEN WORKER -- EMPLOYERS A LOT OF LATITUDE IN HOW THEY MANAGE THEIR WORKFORCE.

SO ESSENTIALLY THIS IS AN ENDORSEMENT OF THAT POSITION, WHICH IS A STATUS QUO, AND AS FAR AS ALIENATING A PORTION OF THE PARTY, YES, THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE WHO MIGHT SEE THIS AS TREASONIST ON THE PART OF MIKE BRAUN, IDEOLOGICALLY, YOU LOOK AT ANOTHER FACTION OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, WHICH PERHAPS IS THE BETTER -- THE MORE WILLING TO FINANCE CAMPAIGNS, THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, MANUFACTURERS, LARGE EMPLOYERS, THE CHAMBER TYPES, IF YOU WILL, WHO DO NOT WANT TO SEE MANDATES, HANDCUFFS PUT ON EMPLOYERS ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN AND CAN'T DO >> AND THAT'S EXACTLY THE FIGHT PLAYING OUT AT THE STATEHOUSE IN INDIANA.

>> YOU MAY HAVE MORE ZEALOUS AND VOCAL PEOPLE ON ONE SIDE OF THE PARTY, AS WE LOOK AT -- POLITICS MONEY IS IMPORTANT, IF YOU LOOK AT WHERE THE MONEY S IT IS WITH THE, SHALL WE SAY THE CHAMBER, THE BUSINESS WING OF THE PARTY, AND THAT WOULD BE VERY SUPPORTIVE I THINK OF BRAUN'S POSITION.

>> NIKI, WE HAVE BEEN TALKING FROM THIS FROM A VERY POLITICAL STANDPOINT, MIKE BRAUN IS A BUSINESS OWNER, TOO.

SHOULD WE ASSUME THAT'S ALSO MAYBE FACTORING INTO HIS DECISION HERE?

>> ABSOLUTELY, I WOULD THINK IT IS FACTORING IN.

HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE TOLD BY GOVERNMENT TO DO SOMETHING AND HE DOESN'T WANT TO BE TOLD BY GOVERNMENT HE CAN'T DO SOMETHING.

I THINK THAT'S WHERE A LOT OF THE BUSINESSES ARE COMING IN.

THIS WHOLE FIGHT REMINDS ME OF THIS BUSINESS RIGHTS VERSUS INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS OF A COUPLE YEARS AGO CALLED THE BRING YOUR GUN TO WORK BILL.

AND IT WAS WHERE BUSINESSES WOULD SAY THAT PEOPLE COULD NOT HAVE GUNS IN THEIR VEHICLES, IN THEIR PARKING LOTS WHILE THEY CAME TO WORK, AND LEGISLATORS PASSED A BILL AGAINST A LOT OF BUSINESS OPPOSITION THAT SAID YES YOU CAN, YOU CAN GUN, TO AND FROM YOU MIGHT NEED TO DEFEND YOURSELVES.

IT HAS TO BE LOCKED AWAY.

I'VE VERY MUCH SEEN A LOT OF SI SIMILARITI SIMILARITIES.

>> THE STATE IS HOLDING ROUGHLY 750 MILLION DOLLARS IN LOCAL INCOME TAX RESERVES, ACCORDING TO A REPORT FROM THE INDIANA FISCAL POLICY INSTITUTE.

INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING'S SAMANTHA HORTON REPORTS THE STUDY SUGGESTS A REDUCTION OF THE SURPLUS COULD LEAD TO MILLIONS OF DOLLARS DISTRIBUTED TO LOCAL COMMUNITIES.

>> CURRENT STATE LAW REQUIRES A BUFFER OF AT LEAST 15 PERCENT IN THE LOCAL INCOME TAX RESERVE -- STATE ACCOUNTS THAT HOLD AND DISTRIBUTE LOCAL INCOME TAX FUNDS.

THE LAW WAS PASSED IN 2016 AS A WAY TO PROTECT FROM FUTURE RECESSIONS.

AUTHOR OF THE STUDY LARRY DEBOER SAYS EVEN UNDER EXTREME RECESSION SCENARIOS, ONLY A SMALL NUMBER OF COUNTIES WOULD RUN OUT OF FUNDS IN THEIR ACCOUNTS.

>> LARRY DEBOER: ESSENTIALLY, THE SYSTEM THAT WE DESIGNED TO PREVENT NEGATIVE BALANCES IS WORKING TOO WELL, WHERE WE'RE PREVENTING NEGATIVE BALANCES, OR WE WOULD PREVENT NEGATIVE BALANCES, IN RECESSIONS BORDERING ON GREAT DEPRESSION SCALES.

>> DEBOER SAYS RELAXING THE BALANCE REQUIREMENT COULD FREE UP MORE THAN 200 MILLION DOLLARS.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN, IS THIS RESERVE FOR LOCATION A LITTLE TOO CAUTIOUS?

>> I THINK THE RATE AT WHICH THIS MONEY HAS ACCUMULATED BECAUSE OF THE INCREASE ON TAX REVENUE SYSTEM-WIDE HAS DRAWN NEW ATTENTION TO IT.

IT'S BEEN A COMPLETE THAT THE STATE HOLDS THIS MONEY, COLLECTS IT ALL AND DELAYS DISBURSING IT.

THIS FRICTION BETWEEN THE STATE AND LOCALS ISN'T NEW.

WHAT IS NEW, THIS IS PLAYING ITSELF OUT IN SEVERAL DIFFERENT WAYS IS THIS RECORD LEVEL OF REVENUE THAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING.

WE SAW IT LAST SESSION WHEN -- AT ABOUT THE SAME TIME THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WAS SHOVELLING SEVERAL BILLION, THE STATE REALIZED ANOTHER TWO MILLION IN REVENUES, LED HOUSE REPUBLICANS TO CALL FOR REDUCTION IN BUSINESS VERSUS PROPERTY TAX, MAYBE THE PERSONAL INCOME TAX, LED SENATE REPUBLICANS TO SAY HOLD ON A SECOND, LET'S SEE WHAT'S REAL AND NOT.

THERE IS A LOT OF DIALS YOU CAN TURN HERE THAT ARE BEING PROPOSED TO BE TURNED, WHETHER IT IS THE RESERVE REQUIREMENT HERE, OR TAX RATES, YOU KNOW, AT THE STATE-WIDE LEVEL, STATE OR LOCAL LEVEL.

IT'S THE RIGHT CONVERSATION TO HAVE, FRANKLY.

HOW YOU DISBURSE THIS EXCESS REVENUE MAY BE WAIT A SECOND AND SEE, PRUDENCE MAY BE THE RIGHT ANSWER, AND SEE WHAT IS REAL AND WHAT IS NOT.

CAN WE REALISTICALLY RELY ON A RECORD INCREASE IN TAX REVENUE, WHICH THE COROLLARY IS A RECORD INCREASE IN SPENDING, WE SAW A LOT OF MONEY GO OUT THE DOOR AS THE STATE TRIED TO SPEND DOWN THAT EXCESS SURPLUS.

YOU KNOW, SO IT'S A BIGGER CONVERSATION THAN JUST IS THIS 15% LOCAL RESERVE OR 12%, IT IS SYSTEM-WIDE RIGHT NOW >> ANN DeLANEY, TO THAT POINT, IS THIS THE -- IS THIS SORT OF FOLLOWING THE SAME CONVERSATION WHETHER OR NOT TO CUT TAXES AT THE STATE LEVEL?

SHOULD IT MAYBE WAIT A LITTLE LONGER TO SEE HOW THINGS SETTLE OUT?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I MEAN, THIS PROBLEM OF THE STATE OPERATING BASICALLY AS A BANK AND INSURING AGAINST THINGS THAT HAVE NOT OCCURRED.

AND HOLDING MONEY THAT'S DESPERATELY NEEDED AT THE LOCAL LEVEL HAS GOT TO BE ADJUSTED.

I MEAN, WHAT AMAZES ME ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS THAT THEY'RE ALL A BUNCH OF JOHNNY ONE -- WE HAVE RECORD INCREASES IN INCOME AT THE STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL.

THE FIRST RESPONSE IS DON'T INVEST IN THE FUTURE, DON'T INVEST IN INFRASTRUCTURE, DON'T INVEST IN CHILDREN, DON'T INVEST IN GETTING GOOD QUALIFIED TEACHERS, IT'S CUTTING TAXES.

OKAY.

WE CUT TAXES HERE.

AND THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BRING ALL KINDS OF NEW HIGH-PAYING JOBS TO THE STATE.

WE HAVEN'T SEEN VERY MUCH OF THAT.

WE HAVE INCOME COMING IN HERE, LARGELY BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS PUT A LOT IN.

BUT NOW IS THE TIME, IT SEEMS TO ME, TO CATCH KIDS UP IN SCHOOL FOR THE EDUCATION THEY MISSED DURING COVID, TO PUT PRESCHOOL INTO PLACE ACROSS THE BOARD, TO FUND OUR UNIVERSITIES, TO PAY OUR TEACHERS, AND THEIR FIRST RESPONSE IS NEVER TO INVEST IN THE FUTURE.

IT'S ALWAYS TO CUT TAXES, USUALLY FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE INDUSTRIES THAT DON'T NEED IT.

>> I THINK A LOT OF THOSE INVESTMENTS WERE JUST MADE IN THIS LAST STATE BUDGET WHEN WE HAD THAT INFLUX -- >> NOT ENOUGH.

>> IT IS NEVER ENOUGH, ANN.

>> OKAY, OKAY, OKAY.

NIKI KELLY, THIS 15% LEVEL, LAWMAKERS HAVE BEEN TALKING, ABOUT HOW WE WANT THE PRUDENT BUDGET RESERVE LEVELS ARE 11, 12, MAYBE 13%, USUALLY AROUND 11 OR 12, $200 MILLION THAT WOULD BE FREED UP AS WE HEARD IN THE PIECE FROM SAMANTHA HORTON, REDUCING FROM 15% RESERVES TO 11 OR 12%.

CAN LAWMAKERS TELL LOCATION WITH A STRAIGHT FACE?

WE ONLY NEED 12%, YOU NEED 15.

>> THAT'S A TOUGH ONE.

OVER THE YEARS, OVER MULTIPLE REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS IT'S BEEN IN THE 12, 13% RANGE.

SO WHY SUDDENLY, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE HAVING SUCH A LARGER RESERVE FOR LOCALS, I MEAN, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR THE EXPLANATION FOR THAT.

AND OBVIOUSLY THIS 200 MILLION -- I WOULD BE CURIOUS FROM MIKE, HE SAID THIS HAS HAPPENED, BE CURIOUS HOW MUCH OF THAT 200 MILLION HAS COME IN THE LAST YEAR VERSUS BUILT UP OVER TIME.

AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, I JUST DISH MEAN, IT WOULD BE A ONE-TIME HIT, BUT ALSO WOULD BE A SLIGHT ONGOING AMOUNT OF REVENUE EVERY YEAR FOR LOCALS, AS WELL.

SO CERTAINLY A WORTHY DISCUSSION TO HAVE >> ALL RIGHT.

TIME NOW FOR VIEWER FEEDBACK.

EACH WEEK WE POSE AN UNSCIENTIFIC, ONLINE POLL QUESTION IN CONJUNCTION WITH OUR ICEMILLER E-MAIL AND TEXT ALERTS.

THIS WEEK'S QUESTION: SHOULD THE STATE REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF LOCAL INCOME TAX REVENUE IT KEEPS IN RESERVE, IN CASE OF ECONOMIC DOWNTURNS?

A, YES, OR B, NO.

LAST WEEK'S QUESTION: SHOULD INDIANA LAWMAKERS EFFECTIVELY BAN PRIVATE COMPANIES FROM ENFORCING COVID-19 VACCINE MANDATES?

SINCE HOUSE REPUBLICANS ARE PUSHING 10% SAY YES, 90% SAY THAT'S THE WRONG MOVE.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO TAKE PART IN THE POLL GO TO WFYI.ORG/IWIR AND LOOK FOR THE POLL.

INDIANA SCHOOLS GOT AN UNPRECEDENTED AMOUNT OF MONEY FROM FEDERAL CORONAVIRUS RELIEF.

BUT IT'S OFTEN HARD FOR PARENTS AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS TO SEE HOW THEIR LOCAL DISTRICTS INTEND TO USE THE MONEY.

>> THE AID HAS ALREADY PAID FOR DISTRICTS TO SPEND IN WAYS THEY COULDN'T AFFORD BEFORE.

THEY'VE EXPANDED SUMMER SCHOOL, GIVEN STIPENDS TO STAFF, AND BOUGHT TECHNOLOGY.

THE PLANS THAT SCHOOL SYSTEMS POST ONLINE ARE NOT CONSISTENT.

SOUTH BEND SCHOOLS HAS A DETAILED DASHBOARD ON ITS WEBSITE WITH SPENDING AIMS DETAILS.

KAREEMAH FOWLER IS THE CFO OF SOUTH BEND SCHOOLS.

>> KAREEMAH FOWLER: THERE'S A LOT TO BE DONE, BUT WE REALLY DO HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY RIGHT NOW WITH THESE FUNDS.

I THINK EVERY DISTRICT DOES HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO, YOU KNOW, NOT ONLY FILL THE GAP, THE LEARNING LOSS GAP, BUT HOW DO WE REIMAGINE EDUCATION FOR OUR STUDENTS IN INDIANA.

>> FOWLER SAYS EVEN IF PEOPLE DON'T USE THE TOOLS, THE INFORMATION ONLINE HELPS THE DISTRICT BUILD TRUST.

>> YOU CAN READ THE FULL STORY FROM WFYI'S EDUCATION TEAM AT WFYI.ORG NIKI KELLY, ARE THERE SERIOUS TRANSPARENCY QUESTIONS TO BE ASKED REGARDING ALL THIS FEDERAL MONEY?

>> I SUPPOSE YOU COULD MAKE THE SAME ARGUMENT FOR EVERY DOLLAR, WHETHER STATE OR FEDERAL MONEY.

IT IS NOT THE EASIEST THING TO TRACK, YOU HAVE TO BE FAMILIAR WITH THE SYSTEMS THAT ARE OUT THERE IN ORDER TO LOOK AT SPENDING, AND LOOK AT PLANS.

YOU KNOW, SOME SORT OF BASIC, YOU KNOW, SIMILAR FORMAT REPORT WOULD BE NICE.

THAT SOUTH BEND SITE IS AWESOME.

I WEREN'T ON IT TODAY, IT IS AMUSING.

THERE ARE DISTRICTS WHO MIGHT NOT HAVE THE PERSONNEL TO BE DOING THAT, OR THE EXPERTISE.

WE HEAR A LOT OF THEY GET KIND OF YELLED AT A LOT FOR SPENDING ON ADMINISTRATION, YOU KNOW, WHO DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS, SOMEONE IN THAT SUPERINTENDENT'S OFFICE IS GOING TO HAVE TO UPDATE THAT THING ALL THE TIME.

>> JON SCHWANTES, TO THAT POINT, NIKI BRINGS OUT, THERE ARE PRACTICAL CONCERNS ABOUT THE LEVEL, PERHAPS, OF TRANSPARENCY, CONSTANT TRANSPARENCY YOU CAN DO IN A SCHOOL DISTRICT.

SHOULD HOOSIERS BE COGNIZANT OF THOSE WHEN ASKING, HEY, HOW ARE YOU SPENDING ALL THIS MONEY?

>> SURE, I MEAN, IDEALLY, HOOSIER VOTERS AND TAXPAYERS WOULD CARE ABOUT HOW THE DOLLARS ARE SPENT AND IDEALLY, THE PEOPLE WHO SPEND THOSE DALLAS, THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS WOULD BE VERY TRANSPARENT ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND THE DECISIONS THEY'RE MAKING.

I THINK, I AGREE SOUTH BEND IS AN EXEMPLAR IN TERMS OF WHAT IT IS DOING, IT REALLY SETS THE BAR HIGH, MAYBE THERE ARE SOME PRACTICAL REASONS WHY SOME OF THE SMALLER DISTRICTS CAN'T MATCH THAT KIND OF LEVEL OF SOPHISTICATION WITH ITS DISPLAY IN REAL-TIME OF HOW DOLLARS ARE ALLOCATED, BUT IT CERTAINLY IS A GOAL, SHOULD BE A GOAL, IT SEEMS TO ME, AND IF YOU JUST SAY, OH, IT IS TOO TOUGH WE CAN'T DO IT, THAT'S SORT OF NOT A VERY -- A SOUND ARGUMENT.

MANAGING ANYTHING IS TOUGH, AND IF PART OF IF IS MAKING SURE YOUR STAKEHOLDERS KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING, THAT NEEDS TO BE INCORPORATED INTO THE WORK FLOW.

BECAUSE THE BENEFIT, IT SEEMS TO ME, IN THE END, IF YOU HAVE THAT KIND OF RELATIONSHIP THAT CERTAINLY SOUTH BEND IS TRYING TO NURTURE AND BUILD AND MAINTAIN WITH ITS CORE CONSTITUENCY, IT'S TAXPAYER BASE, IF AND WHEN THAT SCHOOL DISTRICT OR OTHERS NEED TO AS THEY OFTEN DO, GO TO VOTERS AND SAY WE NEED ADDITIONAL MONEY FOR THIS, WE NEED ADDITIONAL MONEY FOR THAT, AND IT WILL BE A QUESTION ON THE BALLOT NEXT TIME YOU GO TO THE POLLS, WHO DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO FARE BETTER, THE DISTRICT VERY -- HOW PUBLIC DOLLARS ARE SPENT, OR A DISTRICT WHERE IT IS HAPPENING OFF THE RADAR, I WOULD GUESS THAT THE PUBLIC WOULD BE MORE AMENABLE TO THE FORMER, NOT THE LATTER.

>> MIKE O'BRIEN, JON JUST BROUGHT UP EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT.

THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH CONVERSATION THE LAST YEAR OR TWO AT THE STATE LEVEL, FROM THE FEDERAL DOLLARS, ABOUT HOW MUCH MONEY SCHOOLS ARE GETTING IN FUNDING.

AND PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE TRANSPARENCY OF THESE FEDERAL DOLLARS, HOW IMPORTANT IS THAT GOING TO BE OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS AS SCHOOLS INEVITABLY HAVE TO GO TO VOTERS AND SAY, HEY, WE'RE GOING TO NEED A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY FROM YOU.

>> IT WILL CERTAINLY PLAY INTO THE REFERENDUM -- POTENTIAL REFERENDUM, I'M ALL FOR MORE TRANSPARENCY ON FEDERAL DOLLARS.

YOU'RE KIND OF SET OFFING UP A CLIFF OF INTELLECTUAL HONESTY, WHETHER OR NOT WE START POSTING THAT ON THE WEBSITE, THE SAME SCHOOL DISTRICTS WHO ARE FOR TRANSPARENCY ON FEDERAL SPENDING ARE ALSO GOING TO BE FOR TRANSPARENCY ON CRIMINAL.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING HOW IT PLAYS OUT IN EDUCATION >> ANN DeLANEY, ACTUALLY, MIKE SAID EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT, WHICH IS THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF -- WE'RE SEEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND HERE IN INDIANA THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF FOCUS AND ATTENTION AND QUITE FRANKLY ANGER BEING DIRECTED AT SCHOOL BOARDS RIGHT NOW FOR REASONS MOSTLY HAVING TO DO WITH CURRICULUM ISSUES, AS MIKE JUST POINTED OUT.

BUT IS SOME OF IT GOING TO END UP BEING THIS, TOO, WHERE IT IS, HEY, YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO GET A LOT OF MONEY, HOW ARE YOU SPENDING THAT MONEY?

IS THAT ANGER GOING TO END UP IN THAT DIRECTION, TOO?

>> THERE IS A LOT OF ANGER OUT THERE, THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

A LOT OF IT IS BASED ON MISINFORMATION, SEEMS TO ME SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN PARTICULAR COULD FOLLOW SOUTH BEND'S EXAMPLE AND TELL THEM HOW THE MONEY IS BEING SPENT, THE STATE, I KNOW IT IS A LOT TO ASK, BUT COULD PROVIDE SOME GUIDANCE BOTH ON SUGGESTED WAYS THAT MONEY SHOULD BE SPENT, AND MAYBE HELPING THEM TO DEVELOP FORMATS FOR LARGER AND SMALLER SCHOOL DISTRICTS THAT CAN GET THE INFORMATION OUT THERE THAT PEOPLE AND REPORTERS HAVE A RIGHT TO LOOK AT TO SEE HOW THE MONEY IS BEING SPENT?

THE ANGER ON CURRICULUM HAS BEEN STOKED BY THE REPUBLICANS FOR EITHER FOR WEARING MASKS, OR VACCINE MANDATES OR TESTING, OR THIS NONSENSE ABOUT THE KIND OF CURRICULUM THAT ISN'T EVEN BEING TAUGHT IN K-12.

SO, IF YOU PUT THE -- IF THE CURRICULUM WERE OUT THERE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT PEOPLE WOULD SAY, WE HAD SLAVERY IN THIS COUNTRY, OKAY, WE HAVE RACISM IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND TO PRETEND IT DIDN'T AND DOESN'T EXIST IS -- IT'S NOT TRUTHFUL.

SO WHERE DOES THAT -- CRITICAL RACE THEORY DOESN'T COME INTO THIS AT ALL, BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE PREACHING ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY, YOU HAVE TO TEACH ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE HAD SLAVES AND THE FACT THAT WE DISCRIMINATED AGAINST AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND THE IMMIGRANTS, AND WOMEN IN OUR PAST HISTORY.

THAT'S PART OF WHO WE ARE.

AND YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY HARM IN LETTING PARENTS GET THAT INFORMATION EASILY THROUGH THE INTERNET IF THAT'S WHAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT WOULD WANT.

AND I ACTUALLY THINK THAT THE STATE AND ANYBODY ELSE WHO COMPLAINS ABOUT ADMINISTRATIVE EXPENSES, YOU COULD POINT TO THAT AND SAY WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS INFORM THE RESIDENTS AND THE VOTERS IN THIS COMMUNITY OF HOW WE'RE SPENDING THE MONEY AND WHAT WE'RE TEACHING.

AND IF ANYTHING CAN FAULT THAT, GOOD LUCK >> NOT THE LAST TIME WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THAT CURRICULUM ISSUE.

FOR NOW, THOUSANDS OF INDIANA NATIONAL GUARD MEMBERS ARE UNVACCINATED FOR COVID-19, DESPITE A RECENT FEDERAL DEADLINE TO DO SO, ACCORDING TO A REPORT THIS WEEK FROM NIKI KELLY OF THE FORT WAYNE JOURNAL GAZETTE.

>> THERE ARE 11,500 MEMBERS IN THE INDIANA ARMY NATIONAL GUARD, WHICH FACED A DEC. 2 DEADLINE TO GET VACCINATED AGAINST THE VIRUS.

AND KELLY WRITES THAT JUST 63 PERCENT ARE VACCINATED.

THE MILITARY TIMES REPORTS UNVACCINATED GUARDSMEN WON'T BE ELIGIBLE FOR FEDERAL TRAINING OR PAY, WHICH INCLUDES MONTHLY DRILL WEEKENDS SOME REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS HAVE PUSHED BACK AGAINST THE MANDATE, WITH OKLAHOMA'S KEVIN STITT SEEKING TO IGNORE IT COMPLETELY.

BUT GOVERNOR ERIC HOLCOMB SAYS HE'S LEAVING THE DECISION TO INDIANA ADJUTANT GENERAL DALE LYLES.

AND A STATEMENT FROM THE GUARD IN KELLY'S STORY SAYS ““ULTIMATELY, THIS IS A MATTER OF READINESS, AND THE BEST WAY TO HELP MAINTAIN THE INDIANA NATIONAL GUARD'S READINESS IS FOR OUR TROOPS TO RECEIVE THE COVID-19 VACCINE.” >> NIKI KELLY, AMID THE CURRENT COVID SURGE, THE GUARD IS BEING DEPLOYED IN INDIANA HOSPITALS.

SHOULD PATIENTS BE CONCERNED ABOUT UNVACCINATED GUARDSMEN HELPING TREAT THEM?

>> THIS IS A FAIR QUESTION.

WE KNOW THERE ARE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS WHO AREN'T BEING VACCINATED AS WELL.

IN FACT, I.U.

HEALTH THIS WEEK, YOU KNOW, REQUESTED THE NATIONAL GUARD COME IN, AND THEY WERE ONE GROUP WHO EVEN BEFORE THE BIDEN VACCINE MANDATE, PUT A VACCINE MANDATE IN, AND SEVERAL -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY A NUMBER, BECAUSE IT IS NOT ACCURATE, THEY DID FIRE SEVERAL EMPLOYEES.

YOU COULD FIND THAT KIND OF INTERESTING.

THE PART THAT I WAS A LITTLE SURPRISED BY IS THAT GOVERNOR HOLCOMB WHO HAS BEEN AGAINST MANDATES, PRETTY STRONGLY, ABOUT AS STRONGLY AS HE HAS BEEN IN FAVOR OF PEOPLE GETTING THE VACCINE, YOU KNOW, JUST KIND OF STANDING, AND NOT PUSHING BACK ON IT.

AGAIN, HE IS A MILITARY MAN AND HE'S PROBABLY TAKEN A NUMBER OF THOSE VACCINES, ANTHRAX AND EVERY OTHER ONE THEY'VE HAD TO DO.

THAT'S WHERE HE CAME AT IT.

THAT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THIS WEEK.

OUR PANEL IS DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY.

REPUBLICAN MIKE O'BRIEN.

JON SCHWANTES OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

AND NIKI KELLY OF THE FORT WAYNE JOURNAL GAZETTE.

IF YOU'D LIKE A PODCAST OF THIS PROGRAM YOU CAN FIND IT AT WFYI.ORG/IWIR OR STARTING MONDAY YOU CAN STREAM IT OR GET IT ON DEMAND FROM XFINITY AND ON THE WFYI APP.

I'M BRANDON SMITH OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

STAY SAFE, STAY HEALTHY, PLEASE GET VACCINATED IF YOU CAN.

JOIN US NEXT TIME BECAUSE A LOT CAN HAPPEN IN AN INDIANA WEEK.

♪♪ >> INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS >> INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORTERS OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS, AND BY ICE MILLER.

ICE MILLER IS A FULL SERVICE LAW FIRM COMMITTED TO HELPING CLIENTS BUILD, GROW AND PROTECT THEIR INTERESTS.

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THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE PANELISTS.

"INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW" IS A WFYI PRODUCTION IN ASSOCIATION WITH INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING