- We are honored to be joined by the Honorable State Senator John Burzichelli, who is represents the third legislative district.

Senator, good to see you.

- It is good to be with you.

I appreciate this time.

- You got it.

Tell everyone where the third district is, Senator?

- It's in New Jersey.

- It's in the - I'm up in the north.

Where are you?

- We are tucked in the genteel south.

Just in the shadow of the city of Philadelphia, covering a good portion of Gloucester County, all of Salem County, and a number of towns in Cumberland County.

- I just had a conversation on a different program it'll air with your colleague Senator Zwicker, Andrew Zwicker.

You and Senator Zwicker and some of your colleagues on the Senate Oversight Committee held a very important hearing recently on the future of public media, public broadcasting, public media in the state.

Why the hearing and what did you take from it, senator?

- Well, Steve, as usual, you pack a lot into a couple sentences of a question.

You know, with traditional media, meaning print media, just almost non-existent, it's hard.

I always remind people, when I arrived at the state house in 2002, you were there before I was.

Press row had 27 reporters on it.

Now not only are there not 27 reporters, there is no press row.

So, you know, the ability to communicate out of the state house is really challenged and people are starting to find different ways to get information.

And we have to adapt.

You know, the traditional model, what was NJTV, NJ Network, I get confused, there were a couple different variations.

The experiment with WNET - I shouldn't say experiment.

The relationship didn't pan out the way everyone had hoped it was.

Donald Trump, you know, accelerated that with his slashing of PBS money from the federal side.

So from our standpoint, we have broadcast license and the legislature knows that communication is paramount.

People have to know what their government is doing, ideally.

So I know the outgoing Murphy administration has done an RFP to hire a consultant.

They won't hire that consultant, but the RFP, request for proposal, is in the works.

And that'll be from the administrative side.

From our side, it's very clear.

We need to get the state house fully wired.

Probably have to establish something that looks like a statewide C-SPAN as a backbone of information flowing out and then draw the nonprofits in to fill out the day as far as content goes.

- Sure, along those lines- - Including yourself, by the way.

- Well, thank you Senator, appreciate that.

But I want to make this clear to folks, and in some ways it's inside baseball and some ways it's who we are.

The Caucus Educational Corporation, our not-for-profit media production company, 15 years ago, in 2011, partnered with WNET.

They were the leaders.

It was WNET who took on a 15-year commitment to operate public broadcasting in the state.

First as NJTV, then as NJ PBS.

But as the senator so well stated, that's gonna end, because WNET is opting not to respond to the RFP.

Mostly for financial reasons.

- Correct.

- And by the way, we'll do an in-depth interview with WNET Group President and CEO Neal Shapiro, our longtime colleague, to talk about the future of public media.

But senator, here's the question.

What do you believe, and I asked your colleague Senator Zwicker this, the same question.

What do you believe the state's responsibilities, 'cause as a leader of this organization, I raise money 24/7.

You have to raise private money.

But do you believe there's a state responsibility here, senator, to support public media?

- Oh, I think that there is, and there's also sources of revenue generated from the previous assets of New Jersey Public Broadcasting.

And frankly, if you go back when the Christie administration made the move that they moved, we lost that vote in the Senate by one vote, if you recall.

- Yes.

- One senator went sideways.

That $332 million that was gained from selling the bandwidth or whatever the term is, was supposed to be put in an account, and that money was supposed to be reserved for the preservation of public broadcasting in New Jersey.

We're in such financial straits, that money never made it there.

So frankly, public broadcasting could have lived off the interest of the $332 million, to a great extent.

So the question is, do we replenish some of that, a $6 billion surplus, does something go back in?

'Cause there's got to be some funding.

And I use the term "backbone content" and I think that is a variation of the federal C-SPAN.

'Cause people enjoy looking at committee hearings.

We as legislators like them because your grandmothers can see them, mothers can see them, it's not there's any vanity involved.

But people are attracted to that stuff.

And every one of our hearing rooms was supposed to be wired under the N-E-T deal.

That didn't happen.

And, you know, I'm a big fan of Neal.

He was there when we needed him, 'cause no one else wanted to do it.

- That's right.

- And then you guys filled in, admirably so.

So yeah, it is imperative that we support public media.

- Let me ask you this, senator.

Explain to folks why, this is interesting, because trust or distrust, if you will, in the media, again, I'll try to separate public media, but the truth is, all of us engaged in media.

If we have a president who calls us the enemy of the people, let's just start, that that's a challenge.

That's not an opinion, that's a challenge.

- Correct.

- That being said, there's a level of cynicism about those of us in media and also about those of you who lead in government.

What do you think, without being too self-serving on my end, senator.

What can public media and should public media do to frankly shed more light on how the legislature actually works or doesn't work as it relates to important issues that matter in people's lives?

- Well, look, you know, it's about gaining public trust, and, you know, everything old is new again.

And at a given point, someone's gotta just start talking about news and events and not worrying about being in the show business lane that has evolved.

That, we've all seen.

And by the way, back to supporting public media, you know, Steve.

You know, we're underwriting Netflix.

So we support and underwrite a lot of things in the public interest.

So, but as far as regaining trust, just gotta start becoming more matter of fact in my mind.

You know, I don't wanna go back to Walter Cronkite, but you know, that stuff worked.

And then it became entertainment.

Go back and look at the Motion Picture Network.

It was all talked about in an Academy Award-winning picture.

News becoming entertainment.

And that's where this thing got off the rails, 24/7 you gotta gotta be talking to people.

You gotta be more sensational than you were in the previous story.

And the news got lost in the entertainment.

I mean, look, I was in committee hearing the other day, I went in to sub the committee hearing and as I told people, I went to a senate committee hearing and a school board meeting broke out.

I mean, because, you know, was that good television?

It would've been if there were cameras in the room.

- So interesting, because when I was talking to Senator Zwicker about this, we're talking about clicks, you know, on our phone.

And listen, everybody wants, we love when people follow our stuff, but let's just be honest with each other.

Some of the ways it takes for people to gain clicks, the so-called influencers, they're not having meaningful dialogue with members of the state legislature about issues that matter.

And final question along those lines, senator.

Number one issue, you believe the new governor, Mikie Sherrill and the state legislature, you and your colleagues in the senate and the lower house assembly need to deal with, what is that issue and why, senator?

- Well, first of all, I never call the assembly the lower house, having spent 20 years there myself.

- I spent two, I should not have called it the lower house.

- No.

- Go ahead.

- You know, and I remind people, was there 20 years and then was thrown out by 23,000 angry people who I never met.

So I always tell people, I served as a mayor, served in the assembly for 20 years, and no indictments.

You know, I should have got a sash or something leaving the building.

- That's right.

- Overall, the catch term you're hearing, which is the right term, is affordability.

I mean, it's almost like a word transparency.

It means something different to everyone you talk to about it.

But expenses, I mean, look, our pension payment's gonna be seven billion.

The anchor program costs us three billion.

State of New Jersey is coming.

These are all huge numbers.

And, you know, holding this thing together is a challenge.

People's expectations of the government continues to grow, and, you know, we continue to try and serve it.

- You're listening to State Senator John Burzichelli from the third district, and one of the many committees he serves on is the Senate Oversight Committee.

We'll keep talking about the future of public media in future programs.

Senator, thank you so much for joining us.

- Thank you, Steve.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

- [Narrator] Think Tank with Steve Adubato is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

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