>> Major funding for Reporters Roundtable is provided by RWJ Barnabas health.

Let's be healthy together.

Rowan University.

Partnering with New Jersey businesses.

Transforming New Jersey's future.

Promotional support provided by New Jersey business magazine, the magazine of the New Jersey business and industry Association, reporting to executive and legislative leaders in all 21 counties in the Garden State since 1954.

And by politico's "New Jersey playbook," a topical newsletter on Garden State politics, online at Politico.com.

♪ David: What is with all these late in the week court rulings?

Ain't you ever heard of deadlines?

It's "Reporters Roundtable."

I'm David Cruise.

Our panel of journalists include Dustin, editor for politico, Dustin, and Fred.

We will hear from the panel in just a few minutes.

But let's start today with a status check on all the big issues that are roiling the political landscape.

Lawsuits and countersuit's and counter suits.

Let's bring in some order to this chaos with a guide known for his straight talk, the Republican Senate budget officer .

Welcome back, Senator.

>> David, thank you for having me.

I appreciate being known as a state talker -- straight talker, but the ringing -- but bringing order to chaos is not something I am known for.

David: I sent we are going to try.

Earthshaking developments, literally, over the past two weeks.

As we gather today, appeals being heard on several fronts.

Are you a partyline guy, or do you think that office block ballots look OK to you?

>> I think we are going to be OK either way, but I think that some form of line done right could be a good fit.

It could be a good idea for a legislature to look at this and Institute a standard process.

There are plenty of chairmen who abuse their power, and it is an undemocratic process.

We do it right here.

There is a real democratic process with secret ballots, with using machines.

I don't have to go any further than this year.

Someone who might not have been the chairman's first choice won a large amount of counties.

The state may be able to learn from us.

That might be the right way to go.

David: You say statutorily memorializing and legislature in the same sentence and people get nervous about that.

But alright, what happens, do you think, if the line goes away?

How does that affect organizations, Democratic, Republican, whichever?

Sen. O'Scanlon: It definitely will weaken the party structure, but it will still exist.

People have come to rely on parties to vet candidates, and they generally have done an OK job doing that.

The people are hurt one way or another.

If line goes away, we will figure it out.

We have survived others'shaking events and we will be OK. Those of us with a voice, willing to do the hard work, willing to raise and spend the money, will get our voices out there.

You hope that we don't end up with a system that is just chaos, and I don't think we will.

We have never gone down this path before.

But I think the legislature might step in and might get it right.

I say might because we are not sure yet.

David: this opra reform bill tabled this week.

The GOP leader, has -- the GOP leader, however, has signed on as a cosponsor.

People say this is a bad bill.

But it is not dead, right?

Sen. O'Scanlon: It is not, and I do not think we are getting it right.

Right thing would be to go back to the drawing board and really include stakeholders, not what I think has been kind of a faux attempt to suggest stakeholders have been at the table.

Let me say this, OPRA needs to perform.

It is kind of a mess.

I have been advocating for it in some form for years.

Those who fought reform at every level over the past six or eight years have LED us to this point.

What we should have done is reformat gradually as we've gone long.

Now we are at the point where the folks who really don't like OPRA and some people really understand it needs before him have just kind of signed on to something.

-- need to reform have just kind of signed on to something.

I am back to the drawing board.

Take our time.

Genuinely include stakeholders and makeup -- end up with something that makes no one perfectly happy.

That would be a good idea.

David: Let's talk budget.

You are the budget officer.

This new budget is $20 billion larger than Chris Christie's final budget.

I'm sure you probably already know that.

Has the cost of government really risen $20 billion in less than a decade?

Sen. O'Scanlon: In the minds of Democrats leading New Jersey, apparently it has, but it is outrageous.

And it is a house of cards.

Let me state that clearly.

It is a mess, this budget, and we squandered a golden opportunity over the last five to six years to fix our budget.

We have real opportunities to do so which we will never happen again.

It is a house of cards.

Shout out to my friends in the press, but giving the administration somewhat of a pass, saying, repeating their line that they are only spending down to billion dollars in surplus.

We have a $4 billion structural deficit in this budget.

There is a $2 billion surplus, $1 billion raised by the CDT that is not going to transit, but apparently will make here.

That is $3 billion right there, and easily another half a billion for family leave and temporary disability accounts.

It is a house of cards.

It is disgraceful.

David: You are leading me to the question, as I am running out of time, let me get Brent in here, who has a question that refers right to what you were talking about.

Sen. O'Scanlon: Brent, how are you?

>> Good, how are you, Declan?

The question is, how are we headed for a state shut down this year over the budget?

Sen. O'Scanlon: No, the governor and Democrats will hold hands, sing Kumbaya, and jump with get off the next fiscal cliff.

There will not be a shut down.

They will build back in much of the government -- the governor claims to cut from the budget import.

I think it is safe to make that prediction.

Since Republican predictions about our budget have come true every year over the past half-dozen at least.

David: Politics now, Jack Hanna really announcing for governor.

You've got bread naked the race already.

I think we saw you at the chi terelli event.

You ruled yourself out as a gubernatorial candidate, and many people agree.

Are people going to split the moderate votes and leave the nomination for some wacko?

Sen. O'Scanlon: I'm not calling anyone a wacko, but -- David: sorry, those are my words.

Sen. O'Scanlon: It says very good things about the Republican bench that we have two guys announcing I am backing Jack, but I a door on grandma.

They are good friends, good guys.

Either one of them would make a good governor.

The Republicans are offering great choices to the voters.

It warms my heart that I did not have to step in, because there are better people than me at the table right now.

We are in a really good place on the Republican side of this debate.

David: Italy 45 seconds or so I have left with you, tell me something about NJ transit fare hikes.

Sen. O'Scanlon: You've got to run the system, but we are leaving a huge hole.

That is part of the budget discussion.

We've got a billion dollar hole in the New Jersey transit budget that is not going to be filled.

This governor has not dealt with that effectively and during his entire term.

It is another part of the taking timebomb that is our entire budget.

We have the opportunity to solve all of this over these past few years.

We are flush with cash.

We have time.

It really is a sad thing, this house of cards we will be dealing with over the next few years.

David: But at least no shutdown, right?

Sen. O'Scanlon: No, we are not going to have a government shutdown.

The Democrats still have some leeway here, so they will kick the can down the road one more year.

David: All right, Declan, good to see you.

Thank you for taking a few minutes with us.

Sen. O'Scanlon: Any time.

David: OK, panel, welcome to you all.

Let's start with the line lawsuit, as we speak here on Friday, the rest of the press corps is in Philly for the appeal of the order to tear down the line in the anti-kitten suit.

We are not going to know by the end of the show today, but Dustin, is the world really going to change that much of the line goes away?

-- if the line goes away?

Dustin: I doubt it.

Voting is not as hard as a lot of people, including Governor Murphy, would you have you believe.

The ballot designed for office blocks is used in 49 other states, and they seem to have managed to get by.

I think New Jersey can do the same.

David: Fred, it is getting hard to follow who is appealing what, where, and why.

Amicus briefs coming out of everywhere.

Is it a big deal?

Fred: I agree with what Dustin said.

It may not be a big deal to voters, but it is a big deal to professional politicians, county leaders and the like who basically have appealed, and even on the Republican side, we know that at the moment it does not affect Republicans.

It takes County leaders with the power that they have, people in county committee like the power that they have.

I think that is what people are not going to be happy to give up.

David: Brent, the governor said on Nancy Solomon's show that the whole line thing was overblown.

He called it a fly speck, which Webster defines as a tiny stain left by the excrement of an insect.

That is news to me.

It also anoint him that people tried to tie the demise of Taney Murphy's campaign to the county line issue.

Were they not tied?

Brent: yeah, the question is whether she herself said I am dropping out because of the line, but there was talk about the rivals in the atmosphere all over the place.

County leaders were worried about it.

It was definitely in the water when she made that decision, whether it was the material thing for her.

She says she was not, but other people seem to say it was all over the place.

It is just a monumental time in NJ politics, where a lot is going on on the ground level.

There may be people who do not understand exactly what we are talking about or how big of a deal it is, but this is going to continue to play out.

David: Dustin, was it a fly speck, or was it more than that that the association between the line dissolving and Tammy Murphy's campaign likewise dissolving?

Dustin: It was the whole ballgame.

I agree with everything Brent just said.

He encapsulated it pretty perfectly.

But the backlash to Tammy Murphy was all about the lying and a sense of entitlement among critics on her hand the governor's part.

It strikes me as incredibly tenured for the governor to dismiss that.

It seems like they did not learn any lesson from Tammy Murphy's Senate run.

David: Fred, it seemed like it really got the entire conversation about the lying superheated.

Fred: Absolutely.

These issues are related because they overlap.

The argument of a lot of rank-and-file Democrats against Tammy Murphy was that she was a candidate up the establishment and was being endorsed by County leaders.

But the way County leaders execute that endorsement is through the county line.

The issues are related.

I don't think it was a fly speck at all.

I think Tammy Murphy's candidacy gave more oxygen to the campaign to get rid of the line, at least among rank-and-file Democrats.

David: If Menendez were not seeking reelection again without all these indictments, we might not have the same noise surrounding the party line, I think.

Anyway, we were all for the China really announcement -- sent a rally-- citarelli announcement this week.

Fred, I sigh you hobnobbing with the GOP big shots.

Fred: A few hundred people were there.

The people I talked to I mentioned were people you mentioned previously about Jack and John basically pulling from the same crowd of voters.

They said they could A, Jack has run a few times, but they are saying it is a good thing, meaning he has name recognition among Republicans.

He is supposed to be moderate, but maybe his opponent is more to the left than Jack is.

He is not going to get much support among Republicans.

David: Dustin, I saw more Black people at this event than I have ever seen for a Republican.

Could that mean something?

Dustin: I don't think there is a very large Black Republican constituency in New Jersey, but I have not seen any data on that.

It is a good anecdotal sign, I suppose, for Jack, that he has some crossover appeal, and that is kind of what he is pitching himself as, somebody that can meet not only the Republican base, but meet the unaffiliated and Democratic voters who are maybe upset with or want some change from the Democratic Party after Governor Murphy and having a full Democratic legislature.

Typically, Black voters are mostly Democratic, so if he can pull off some of those, that would help him in a general election, but you need them to register as Republicans for the primary.

David: Right.

Brent, you had the question of the week at the Ciattarelli presser after.

It has changed the narrative of the race already.

Let's take a listen.

>> I went back in my notes a few years ago and had your name pronounced chat, or is it chit-?

>> We are known as chet, short for Ciattarelli.

Are you asking me how I pronounce my last name.

Are you asking me how you should pronounce my last name?

Ch-- think Chet for Ciattarelli.

After we win, you want to do that once, and then after that you'll call me Jack.

David: You were hustling around that ballroom.

What did you see or hear that was of interest other than it is chet-, not chit-?

Brent: I am glad I could ask the pressing questions.

Everything as in the world of politics right now, the question is Trump.

Will someone who has criticized Trump in the past but now has endorsed Trump, will they give him a lane?

Will his opponent have a shot to win the primary because he is anti-trump?

Will Bill Spady, who is very pro-Trump, take over the party?

That is the thing I kept hearing.

We have a presidential election to decide before the primary next year, but that is clearly on the minds of voters and pundits as we go into this primary.

David: moving onto OPRA, the bill, not the talk show host, is it dead or what, Justin?

-- Dustin?

Dustin: I could not declare it dead, but it seems like it is on life, given the delays we are seeing, and a sustained backlash to it.

It seems like lawmakers are getting the message that people do not like it.

There was a poll that came out today that 80% of registered voters don't like it.

As Senator Rose Scanlon said,'s -- as Senator O'Scanlon said, OPRA reform is a disaster right now, and there are plenty of reasons why that is.

If lawmakers can flip to the other side and address the problems instead of trying to tighten the restrictions, I think that would be welcomed by most of the people raging against it right now.

David: Yeah.

Fred, do we know who these stakeholders are that lawmakers say they are consulting with?

Is it like the last time they consulted, basically a one-way street?

Fred: Some other stakeholders would be people like ourselves, the press and the media.

Those are very significant stakeholders.

Also, if you look at many of the groups that were complaining about the legislative hearings that were jampacked, there were groups there, there were a lot of groups on the left but also on the right, just about every special interest rate that does business with the government wants access to information.

Just about any public interest group, and the press.

David: Dustin, onto this Menendez case, the judge separated out Ms. Menendez but kept the senator's timeline, yes?

What does it all mean?

Dustin: It means the small opportunity that Bob Menendez may think he has to run for reelection as an independent remains.

He probably would not have had much of a chance had it been delayed.

His lawyers advocated for keeping his timeline.

He feels like he can get exonerated, in his words, after this trial and then run for reelection as an independent and that would be just a wild turn of events.

So I guess it is good news for him, but for the rest of us, we are going to have back-to-back trials to deal with.

David: Fred, GOP senate race now, you've got an election denier in there now.

Fred: Yes, we do.

Christian Serrano was last a mayor, which does not sound like a great launching pad for statewide office.

It is what it is.

But she did say in a debate that she would not certify the election.

That may appeal to the Trump base, but I do not feel it appeals to the broader Republican Party.

David: And she kind of forced her opponent into saying I will endorsed Trump, yeah?

Fred: Yes, she did.

David: Time for our only in Jersey segment.

Headlines and notes that are quintessentially Jersey.

Brent, you got one?

Brent: Some may know I play in a band called The Clydes, and we are from New Brunswick.

One of our favorite venues, the court tavern, has officially gone away and is going to be replaced by a vegan restaurant.

Nothing against vegan restaurants, but this was a place where you could cram 100 people into a room and hear great rock 'n' roll.

Now it is gone, and there are very few places right now outside of Asbury Park or Jersey City to see live music.

The state has a great music scene.

We will miss the Court.

David: Who is that playing guitar, you?

Brent: That is me in the middle, yeah.

David: Look at this guy.

Nice.

Dustin, you got one?

Dustin: Yes, the comedy cartoon show "family Guy" on Wednesday night dedicated a whole episode to Chris Christie.

It was a weird plot about Brad Pitt playing Chris Christie in a biopic.

And I'm not -- I'm not OK-ing fat jokes, I think they are not very good, but it was really just a device to lampoon Hollywood culture, which I think is something that Kristi would get a bit of a chuckle out of.

David: I think the guy from King of Queens is an obvious choice to play Chris Christie in any biopic.

But the idea of a Chris Christie biopic is a whole other concept to deal with, perhaps on another show.

Mine comes from Patterson, where an ordinance would require anyone who provides services to the homeless to take out a permit or face steep fines, even jail time.

The city says the people there leave a mess, and who knows about the safety and quality of the food they receive.

I mean, dealing with people in crisis is messy work, literally and figuratively.

Sometimes you've got to go where the people you most need -- who most need you are.

But critics suggest the ordinance is safe and we build attempt to, as they used to say, clean up the streets, but that is so 1970's.

Instead of trying to clear the sidewalk, the city should focus attention on these areas and way whatever sources are needed -- and deploy whatever resources are needed to do the work that is very much needed.

You can't wave the flag for humanitarian aid overseas and then treat the refugees in our midst like they should just be disappeared.

Unfortunately -- fortunately, the ordinance was pulled from the agenda but could still be reintroduced.

In 2024, Patterson, once the world capital of ingenuity, needs to do much better.

That is "Roundtable" for this week.

Thank you for joining us.

You can follow the show on X and dig into the roundtable archives, including full episodes, when you scan the QR code on your screen.

I'm Daniel Cruz -- David Kruse.

For the entire crew, thanks for watching.

We will see you next week.

Announcer: Major funding for Reporters Roundtable is provided by RWJ Barnabas health.

Let's be healthy together.

Rowan University.

Educating New Jersey leaders.

Partnering with New Jersey businesses.

Transforming New Jersey's future.

Promotional support provided by "New Jersey Business" magazine, the magazine of the New Jersey Business and Industry Association, reporting to executive and legislative leaders in all 21 counties in the Garden State since 1954.

And by Politico's "New Jersey Playbook," a topical newsletter on Garden State politics, online at Politico.com.

♪