[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - We're now joined by Senator Declan O'Scanlon, Chief Budget Officer for the Republicans in the Senate.

Good to see you, Senator.

- You too, Steve.

How are you?

- I'm doing great.

We had a separate segment with the Senator, talking about a whole range of issues regarding wind energy related issues, and also parental rights having to do with their children in schools, and what they should or shouldn't know, do or do not know about their children's sexual orientation, gender issues, et cetera.

This is a different conversation, Senator.

I keep thinking, I know there's a 2023 election in November for all seats in the legislature, but let's talk 2024 for a second.

Not even political, bigger than that.

I've argued that, as the graphic goes up, "Decision 2024: Democracy in Danger," with no question mark, do you believe that our representative democracy is endangered given where we are, not only in New Jersey, but nationally right now, and why?

- I do, with a caveat.

I really do.

I think you're right.

I don't think you're exaggerating the caustic nature of our politics today where you can't disagree with someone without hating them and want to see their children killed and eaten.

It really is a caustic time in our democracy, and it is a challenge.

Now, having said that, our democracy has gone through periods not dissimilar to this in the past, and we recover, we bounce back.

We've been extraordinarily resilient.

Now, we've only been around for a couple hundred years, so, you know, we have to see if we get through this.

But there are those of us, you, within the media, some of us who are elected representatives, who understand this and I think are trying to pull us back.

I get along well with people, frequently get endorsements from people that I don't agree with across the board.

I work hard to bring people together from disparate positions on a whole host of issues.

I'm known for pulling people from opposite sides of issues to my conference table and my legislative office.

And it's amazing how much you can find common ground when you look someone in the eye.

So we need more of that.

But yes, there is a danger.

- We don't have it, Senator.

Senator, respectfully, I'm sorry for interrupting.

And just to be clear, Senator Declan O'Scanlon and I have known each other for many years.

We've had dozens of interviews.

It isn't a question of what he thinks, or I think, and whether I agree or disagree, it's not my place to do that, but here's the thing.

What, in my view, what Declan O'Scanlon is describing is not the norm.

A friend of mine said to me recently, who happens to be a, I don't even know what a, quote, "MAGA Republican," "Trump Republican" is, loves Donald Trump.

Grew up in the same neighborhood, same ethnic background.

Hardworking lawyer.

Gets to a certain level, and he says, "You know, Steve, we're about to have a quote, 'civil war' in our country, and we're gonna have to all decide, quote, 'which side we're on.'"

And I couldn't believe the conversation I had with this guy, who I'm very close to.

Do you believe that when it comes to the political polarization and the demonization of each other when we disagree, we do this all the time, you and I do this for well over a decade, that we are bordering on either an actual or metaphoric, if you will, civil war?

Pick sides.

Who side are you on?

- Well, we already have the metaphorical civil war.

I mean, if you look at how polarized we are, how polarized Congress is.

I mean, there was a time when you had the Newt Gingrich's of the world, and the Bill Clinton's of the world, the Tip O'Neill's and the Ronald Reagan's of the world figure out how to govern, figure out how to come together, and that time is not now.

Now, I'm not gonna say it's passed forever, because we're gonna have to get back to where we can work together, to govern better.

- How?

Senator, how?

- Look, what we're doing right now, Steve.

You unmask it.

You talk about it.

Look, you said you're still friendly with your friend who is a MAGA, there you go.

You can continue to have those conversations.

And look, I'm telling people right now, very publicly, it doesn't matter whether you love or loath Donald Trump, the Republican Party's job isn't to redeem him, isn't to make up for a past election.

It's to win elections, and it's to govern, and it's to put our philosophy in leadership in the country.

That's what we have to focus on.

I have to do that within my party.

I gotta do a better job at it, 'cause we're not there yet.

But there are those of us who are saying that.

- But, Senator.

I'm sorry for interrupting, Senator.

Everything you're about, and this is, I'm sure that I have to balance my objectivity on this, 'cause it's not about Trump for me.

It's just that I know for a fact, it's not my opinion, it's a fact that everything that you've been publicly, as a senator, as a public official, the way you've comported yourself, everything you're about is class, dignity, respectfully disagreeing without demonizing or name calling.

That is not what, we'll talk about Biden in a second, that is nothing that Donald Trump is about.

You can't be comfortable with him by simply saying, we've gotta help him win because he could be the Republican nominee.

You're not okay with that.

That's not my opinion.

It's a fact.

You know it and I know it.

- Steve, I haven't said that.

In fact, I've endorsed Governor Christie, so I've endorsed Donald Trump's opposition.

I've said that publicly and I've made the case.

- Christie's out.

Do you wind up supporting Trump just because he is the nominee of the Republican party?

- I have to see what the lay of the land is then, but I will not commit, as Governor Christie has not, as a number of other Republicans have not.

We have to see what the lay of the land is.

At some point, you have to put country's best interests first.

If the Democrats nominate Joe Biden, then you got a problem.

- I'll tell you what, he'll be 86.

Sorry, Senator.

He'll be 86 and some Democrats are, I can't believe that the social media stuff that I've been getting and private messages from Democratic friends, "Steve, why do you do this?

Why do you bring this up."

That I've talked about this.

The President, by any objective standard, at times seeming to be challenged.

People, "What's the difference if he knows which way to go after a speech?

"What's the difference if he falls?"

First of all, I don't want him to fall.

I don't want him to go the wrong way.

I want him to be focused.

I want him to be effective, because he is the leader of the free world and president of our nation.

But to argue that at his age now and the way he is, and at 86 on the end of a second term if he wins, that that's not problematic, many would argue that's another reason why democracy is in danger, you say, particularly if it's Biden.

- I say that's exactly right.

Both sides need to sober up and understand the importance of the choices that we are making.

You don't put Joe Biden back out there just 'cause he's the sitting president.

If he's incapable of projecting the strength, and dynamism of this country, and articulating our policies, and not having the obvious that he's challenged, as you said, both sides need to come together, do some soul searching, and choose party representatives, the pinnacle of party representatives that are in the best interest of this country and can bring us together, with, by the way, still embodying passionately their perspectives.

That's what we need to do.

That's what needs to happen.

- Before I let you go, I can ask our team to put "Democracy in Danger" without a question mark up there, but I have to ask you, to what degree are you hopeful moving forward?

- I am hopeful.

The country's been resilient in the past.

Our Founding Fathers were the smartest people to have ever existed, I think, certainly within the framework of our country's history.

I am hopeful that we will come to our senses, that we will move forward and get past this period, I am.

I remain convinced that we're the best country in the world, the most effective democracy, and the people here will make sure it stays that way.

- Without turning this into a commercial for those of us and connected to public broadcasting, as long as we can do this, Senator, whether in person or remotely, we got a good shot.

That's Senator Declan O'Scanlon.

Thank you, Senator for joining us.

We appreciate it.

- Thanks, Steve, and agree with you totally.

- You got it.

Stay with us, we'll be right back.

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