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[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi, I'm Steve Adubato.

We kick off this program with a very compelling and important conversation with a New Jersey leader who definitely matters.

He's Senator Paul Sarlo.

Deputy majority leader in the Senate, also chair of the Senate Budget and Appropriations Committee, Senator great to have you with us.

- It's great to be with you, Steve.

- I see the backdrop of the Senate Chamber, important discussions going on there, either remotely or in person.

Senator, let me ask you this about our fiscal situation.

You've said you're worried about New Jersey quote "falling off a fiscal cliff."

A, what does that mean?

and B, please talk about the idea you have for a budget, a two to three-year budget plan?

First, the fiscal cliff.

What does that mean?

- Okay.

Well, first of all, it's always good to be back with you, Steve, and we can't wait to get back into that chamber.

We're starting to do more and more, back in person.

We started last summer, so we're excited to get back into the chamber full time.

Steve, listen, unprecedented amount of federal dollars are flowing into our states, into our counties, into our towns, unprecedented and clearly needed.

Surely it was a shot in the arm during this pandemic.

We went through two rounds of funding under the Trump administration.

And now, the latest round from the Biden administration, The American Rescue Plan, which we still don't have all the details.

(Laptop beeps) Clearly, there's a pent-up consumer demand.

We've borrowed moneys as well, federal dollars as well.

We were nervous.

The economy- - Was that a mistake, Senator?

Was that a mistake to borrow four-point-whatever-million, excuse me, billion dollars?

4.2, 4.3 billion dollars?

The governor proposed it, you and your colleagues in the legislature supported it, but now New Jersey apparently is flushed with money.

Was that in retrospect, Monday morning quarterback, we're actually taping Monday morning, is a mistake?

- Well, listen, it's easy to be the Monday morning quarterback.

At the time we actually borrowed the dollars, we were in dire need.

All of the economists were forecasting that it was going to take two to three years to come out of this.

I don't think they realized the pent-up consumer demand.

Clearly economy has rebounded much quicker than we originally thought.

Would we still have borrowed the dollars?

Perhaps we would have scaled back that number from the 4 billion dollar mark.

We can not look back at this point in time.

That goes to your question is, what do we do?

We have this unprecedented amount of federal dollars, we have the borrowed funds, we have an economy that is rebounding.

We need to plan for two to three years.

We can not be a bunch of folks who are looking at a one-year budget.

It needs to be the two to three-year budget.

I am concerned about a fiscal cliff.

I am concerned about inflation, two to three years from now.

The last thing I want to be able to be, is sitting in that chamber, as the Senate Budget Appropriations Chairman, and to be able to say to my colleagues or to my constituents, more important than my colleagues, my constituents, "We've received all these federal dollars, we've borrowed these moneys, and now inflation has hit and, the economy has taken a tank and, the fiscal cliff is here."

Can't happen, I'm not going to allow it to happen.

We need to do a long-term plan.

To get elections, long-term fiscal planning, which includes paying down debt.

- Well, let's talk about this, by the way, we're taping on the 10th of May.

It will be seen later, so, the context of my question will be very clear.

So this is May 10.

It is so unpredictable, Senator.

Obviously, no one predicted this pandemic and a whole range of other things that have happened connected to COVID.

So how the heck can you have a two to three-year budget 'plan' when there's so much uncertainty moving forward months, weeks, days, if not years?

- Good question, couple points.

First of all, the fiscal year budget that we will be adopting in the coming weeks, by June 30th, will not include any of the American Rescue Plan dollars.

There'll be no- - None of them?

- None of them, we are not going to include them.

I think we have that agreement.

There's number one.

Number two is, part of the Horizon Reorganization Plan, there is a couple hundred million dollars here, not part of this budget.

- All right, excuse me, Horizon is an underwriter of what we do.

I just want to disclose that as the Senator is talking.

Please, Senator, pick up your point?

- Okay.

So the Horizon Reorganization Plan that we had adopted last year is a couple of hundred million dollars - That will be coming - into the to the state?

That money comes into the state, right?

- Right.

We are not going to be using that as part of this year's budget.

With regards to our surplus this year.

It will be and should be much larger than it has been in previous years to ensure we have a ample surplus for next year.

That could kick some of those ARP dollars out to the following year, and put a plan together.

- ARP, American rescue plan.

- American rescue plan, sorry on the acronyms, sir.

- That's okay.

I think government there are just a few.

- There are more than I could imagine, more than I like to imagine.

The other part is on the debt.

We need to look at long-term of how do we pay down debt?

I'm a little disappointed in the administration that the $4.3 billion that we borrowed from the federal government was non-callable debt.

- Explain that to folks because non-callable, can't they use some of that money to pay down on the debt, or can't they give it back?

- You can't pay down the debt on those borrowed funds.

However, you could use dollars to pay down other debt that is from previous years as, high-interest payments.

So we are going to take a hard look at paying that debt down.

Not just this, in this current fiscal year but for the next two fiscal years.

So there are many steps that we could take for two to three years.

And finally, now's not the time to create new programs.

Now's not the time.

Let's shore up our finances.

Let's make sure we get dollars to the people that need it, some of our most vulnerable citizens, but now's not the time to create a whole new host of programs.

And I know that's hard for some of my colleagues.

You know, we've always talked.

I am a very moderate fiscal conservative Democrat, but now's not the time to create a bunch of new programs.

- Let me ask you this about small businesses.

We've had New Jersey Business and Industry Association, different chamber of commerce representatives, people in the business community.

30-plus percent of small businesses have closed as of this date.

Do you believe that the state of New Jersey is doing enough to support small businesses?

And what exactly should that support look like, Senator?

- I think we've put the funding in place.

We've done work for the EDA, the governor- - Economic Development Authority.

- Economic Development Authority.

The governor just announced yesterday that there will be direct, a significant amount of direct dollars for small businesses in the state of New Jersey.

Are we doing enough?

Listen, I think we're doing the best we can.

My concern, though, is to bureaucracy of state government.

We cannot allow the bureaucracy of state government to get in the way.

Sometimes the bureaucrats get in the way of getting the money out the door.

We need to get the money out the door and into the hands of these small business owners.

Every day we procrastinate is another day that they're having a hard time to keep their doors open.

- Real quick and a minute left.

Vaccine, distribution, resistance, et cetera connected clearly to the New Jersey economy, correct?

- Collected clearly to, our economy.

I just had a conversation earlier today with the commissioner of health.

I think the next step is, now is the time to, I'm still a mayor of my community.

Nobody knows my community better than me.

I know everybody in my community.

I know my folks.

Now it's the time to get it into the community, get it into the hands of the mayors.

Mayors have a very, very good way of communicating with their folks through social media.

There's a little bit of a trust.

Secondly is getting into the hands of doctors offices.

I believe primary care physicians, they've shied away from that across the country, need to get into the local doctor offices.

People go in for their checkup, go in for their allergies, go in and let them convince them.

"Please get the vaccine."

- That is state Senator Paul Sarlo, deputy majority leader and he's chair of the very powerful and important, Senate Budget and Appropriations Committee and Jersey leader definitely matters.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us all the best.

- Steve, it's always great to be with you.

- You got it.

I'm Steve Adubato, stay with us, we'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We're pleased to be joined by Carlos Rodriguez president and CEO of Community FoodBank of New Jersey.

Carlos, good to see you, buddy.

- Good to see you, Steve.

- We're taping on the 10th of May.

It'll be seen later.

Tell everyone what the Community FoodBank is while we put up your website so people understand the critically important role you and your colleagues play.

So the Community FoodBank of New Jersey is the primary provider of food and other services really to address the growing food insecurity and underlying poverty issues that address the state.

We serve 15 out of the 21 counties in our great state of New Jersey.

- How bad are things right now as it relates to food insecurity?

- Well the need is not going away.

We predicted 56% increase in food insecurity at the onset of the pandemic and we've seen that reality kind of unfold in communities throughout the state.

And we're working hard with our local partners, new partners in many cases, and the resources that we've been entrusted with to not only address that immediate need, but also work on the long recovery in front of us.

- So when people talk about the New Jersey recovery, the national recovery, the economic recovery, things are better, and they are to a large extent, that does not affect everyone across the board in the same way.

- That's true.

I mean let's just put things in perspective.

Before the pandemic, we had a thriving economy by many measures and yet we had just shy of 10% of the population that was food insecure.

Since then, we know the economic impact that the pandemic has caused on so many families.

We know how many were vulnerable, just barely holding on before the pandemic and became food insecure since the pandemic.

And so what that tells us and what other disasters tell us like the great recession is that it takes families that have suffered food insecurity during a crisis, a lot longer to climb out of that need despite, and even sometimes with the tailwind of a good economy behind them.

It's very simple to understand why Steve.

For every month that a food insecure family has been without the resources that they needed to make ends meet, they just have that much more of a financial debt to climb or financial hill to climb out of.

- Let me ask you a question.

We're doing a series on New Jersey leaders who make a difference, who matter, and you obviously do and have for a long time.

But in this space of food insecurity issues, hunger issues, why are you so personally committed to this field?

- Well Steve, I know this work.

I know the results of this work.

I know the impact of need.

I was born and raised in the south Bronx.

I married into New Jersey, like the best of us, right?

But I know growing up how programs like this have an impact, even before I knew what a not-for-profit was.

I know that worried look on a parent's face is.

And I can tell you that as a child when you realize what that look is, your childhood effectively ends.

So I know what this is and I know the similarities of growing up in a working family, struggling working poor family, those episodic needs.

I see that.

I saw that look so many times.

It literally haunts me over the last 12 months.

So it's time to really just be honest and be vocal and really double down on what we know can work and should work to make a difference.

- Carlos, we've been putting up your website.

And again, we're not gonna turn this into a fundraiser for your organization, but if people want to, it's money and volunteers, is that correct?

- It's money, volunteer and your voice.

- Explain the voice part.

- We need to be able to create awareness around what the problem really is and the fact that many families will continue to be struggling.

You know, the spotlight is gonna move, right?

We're already talking about the recovery, the vaccines, how many shots in arms?

So hunger's gonna go back to what it was, that behind closed door reality that many working families face.

- But we can't afford that.

I mean particularly people of color, black and brown folks are suffering disproportionately with this pandemic and as it relates to food insecurity, correct?

How can we be silent?

How can we say we're good now?

- We cannot be silenced and we need this voice.

We need to be able to talk about our neighbors that are in need, the disproportionate reality that it has on certain populations, black and brown absolutely, all the isms that really contribute to the inequities that's a root cause for long-term food insecurity and hunger.

We cannot be silent anymore.

And I think we need to be much more vocal.

And the pandemic has really helped us with that 'cause all of a sudden, we saw as a country, as a state, the long lines, and really got to meet our neighbors, recognize that it was our neighbors, no matter what community we're in or a part of.

- That is a Carlos Rodriguez, president and CEO of a terrific organization, the Community FoodBank of New Jersey.

By the way, Carlos, you are the largest, but you also help out other food pantries, food banks throughout the state and on the local level, correct?

- We are a network of food pantries, soup kitchens and local emergency food providers, over a thousand unique partner programs that rely on our food and other resources.

And we are committed to working with them, through them and making sure that they have what they need to continue on this long road ahead.

- That's Carlos Rodriguez.

He's a New Jersey leader, an American leader who matters.

Thank you so much, Carlos.

Appreciate it.

- Thank you, Steve.

- All the best.

Stay with us.

We'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- We're joined once again by our good friend, Tom Bergeron, Owner and Editor of ROI-NJ, one of our media partners.

How you doing, Tom?

- All good, Steve, good to be here, thanks for having me.

- You know, Tom, a while back, we had a conversation, a virtual forum called, New Jersey's Economic Future in Uncertain Times.

We had Assemblywoman, Eliana Pintor Marin, the Chair of the Assembly Budget Committee.

Steve Oroho, Senator Oroho, Republican Budget Chair, Budget officer, excuse me.

And also John Harmon, Founder, President and CEO, African-American Chamber of Commerce in New Jersey.

This first question that we are about to throw to the clip from the conversation, talks about incentives in New Jersey.

Why was that so important?

Because so many people who wrote to us, Tom, leading up into this forum that Tom and I co-moderated, they wanted to know about that.

Why is that important?

- Well look, we're an expensive place to live, an expensive place to do business.

So businesses are gonna want a quote and quote incentive, which is another word of saying a tax break to come here to bring their jobs here.

Why is it important to us?

'Cause it helps us balance the scale with other states, who also have incentive.

- Absolutely, and by the way, setting this up again, State of Affairs together with ROI-NJ, we partnered to do this forum and I will tell you, it was so interesting.

So many people, not just those who participated in the panel but those who were listening online and who had questions, they really care deeply about our economic future.

So on that note, let's go to the clip.

- Everyone complains about New Jersey and we're expensive and we're, but that's not a secret.

I don't think that that holds people back.

I think people wanna come to New Jersey and companies wanna come to New Jersey because we're a highly educated state, we have a tremendous a workforce we are an accessible state, which means that we can get to anywhere at any time of the day.

And I think that we have a lot to offer.

- Coming out of this pandemic, we've all been innovators because without innovation, you'll be dead in the water, right?

So who are the targets?

Who are gonna be in the line to participate?

Every trough of opportunity and resources, black and brown people should be the first partakers in partnership with others.

And that's how we get a more balanced, a more equitable economy.

And I would say, that's where we're pushing hard right now.

- I've been a sponsor of the economic incentive plans.

The reason I'd rather not have them, is because we're so onto it, it's the only thing that gives us a seat at the table, sometimes as the chairwoman had said.

We've got great assets, we've got a great location, we've got a great workforce.

We have great infrastructure which is properly maintained.

We just outpriced ourselves, many, many years ago.

And you know, people will pay for value but they won't overpay for value.

- Tom you know, you listen to Senator Oroho on the back end, talking about the role of government economic incentives.

Here's the devil's advocate question.

Even in the age of COVID, those who argue for a pure capitalist system, let the marketplace dictate.

That would mean that government, wouldn't be involved in any way.

There no be no need for incentive.

Let the marketplace decide.

That doesn't always work, does it?

- It doesn't, although it brings up a good point.

Let me raise this angle with you, Steve.

The one thing about our incentive program that finally was passed, it was about a year or two in the making before it happened.

So it already was a year or two old, but really it's a generation old because when we start talking about incentives, when we start to talk about coming here to work, everything that we've talked about in the past, I don't know that it necessarily implies, right?

Now you're gonna have to talk about where people wanna work.

Employers want people to work.

Can they work from home?

Can they work remotely?

So that whole situation, all the things that New Jersey brings and that mean so well, people have rethought the importance of that and rethought what's important to them in their life.

And I think that's gonna dictate things even more than incentives.

But back to the incentive question, it would be nice not to have them but if our taxes are so high, we have to have them.

- You know what, Tom just raised such a great point.

Work itself, where you work, how you work, the conditions under which you work, industries changing so rapidly that incentive programs have to correlate with them.

And I believe the implied, if not the direct statement you're making, Tom is, government has a hard time keeping up with that pace.

- They're way behind and a lot of these incentive programs are geared towards, the amount of jobs that are created.

And now companies are saying, okay, well, where are these jobs gonna be and how do we register them?

Forget the whole argument about where I'm paying taxes 'cause I'm living here and I'm working here, that whole situation.

You now have another generation that might be working for you out of state because companies are realizing that we can get by with people all over the place.

They never thought they could.

That's the one thing COVID did.

So now, as companies are looking to move ahead, do they need expensive real estate in New Jersey?

Should they take it somewhere else because they real estate anywhere?

All of this is gonna be thrown up in the air now and we'll have to see where it lands.

- By the way, Tom, the second clip we're gonna go to from this forum.

This is vaccines and the impact on the economy.

COVID vaccines, boy, was this an important discussion?

Let's go to the clip.

Senator Oroho, 50%, apparently, in the polls I've seen, Republicans say they're resistant to the vaccine.

The connection to the economy.

Do you believe those Republicans and many Trump supporters who say no, that they are hurting New Jersey's ability to move forward with the economy?

- Well, I guess the questions about vaccines, I encourage people to get vaccinated.

- Got it.

- You know the issue about, you know, mandates and stuff like this, listen, we've educated people about the risks.

If people are gonna take the risk.

But I do, I encourage people to get vaccinated.

I've been vaccinated.

- But there's a connection between vaccine resistance or getting the vaccine and New Jersey economy, right?

- There is, right?

- As far as opening up quickly but at the same time, well, hold on, at the same time, we've been under this for a full year now.

People understand the risk.

- But the problem is, right, we have appointments and people are not rushing anymore.

There was a huge rush in the beginning to get it and that's problematic.

- Is that hurting the New Jersey economy Assemblywoman?

- I think it won't for this summer but it might hurt them for the winter months.

- John Harmon, final words on, okay, Tom, go ahead.

- It's hurting the economy, take the shot.

Let's get this place moving.

- Yes.

- Tom , what do you wanna say?

- I'm just gonna say this has nothing to do with the economy.

If anybody spends three seconds, looking, reading, hearing, seeing about what's happening in India right now, and still says they're not interested in getting a vaccine, boy you can go to Tennessee.

I mean, that's just, it's a catastrophe in some parts of the world.

And there's no reason to think that that can't come back here.

- Absolutely.

Senator, final word, go ahead.

- I have no problem with the vaccine whatsoever.

I encourage people to get vaccinated but I also encourage the Governor to help the economy open up quicker.

- You know what Senator, somehow I knew you were gonna go there.

Tom, so interesting in this last clip.

Let's make it clear, we did this forum, we taped it, recorded it on the 28th of April.

Subsequently, Governor Murphy made some very prominent announcements, important announcements as we're even taping today on the 10th of May.

Things are gonna open up in many of the ways Senator Oroho was proposing, correct?

- Absolutely.

On the 19th, I think you're gonna see as close to a back to normal situation as we've had.

A lot of the outdoor regulations are gonna be limited.

A lot of the indoor stuff, we're gonna go, instead of capacity numbers, it's gonna be safety numbers and social distancing.

But even that the Governor has said he expects the CDC is gonna change that.

And quite frankly, I don't know how much any of that then, is being enforced, anyway.

And then it's gonna come down to two things.

If we see incredible improvement, as we've seen in another places, something's gonna have to happen.

And two, how much of our businesses are gonna be hurt by increased regulations.

Can you find the workers to come back to help you pay?

- That's why Tom and I like working together because that's the perfect segue to this.

Michele Siekerka, who is the President of, the CEO of the New Jersey Business and Industry Association.

She wrote a piece that actually was published in ROI.

New Jersey has a hiring crisis and here are some ways to address it.

She's saying that the unemployment payments to people, extending them into September.

I believe the end of September.

That's a disincentive, talk about incentives.

She argues that, and she's not the only one who argues, it's a disincentive for employees to actually work.

Childcare problems, we have a series called Reimagined Child Care.

Childcare problems.

How about these visas for workers, particularly in the Jersey Shore, et cetera from other countries, those visas are not coming through.

Tom, I don't wanna over-complicate this but that's a big issue.

- There's gonna be a couple of ways this comes out and I think you start with the bottom level, the bedrock level, which is basic retail jobs.

A lot of which are part-time jobs.

A lot of which are filled by high school and college and recent grads and younger people, are they willing to show up to get these jobs?

If they had qualified to get the extra incentive, the $300 a week, why would they?

Because the $300 a week is gonna, to cover what they had first.

So that's something that we need to look at to understand, are we incentivizing people to stay home?

We did a story in ROI where went to Hiring day at Lowe's and Lowe's, let's be clear is not a, it's not a basic job.

They're gonna pay a little bit more than minimum wage.

They had a good run of people coming in looking for work.

Right now, if you're paying people $300 a week extra, again, this isn't just $300, it's extra from what they're normally getting, that's gonna be hard to fill the $9, $10, $11, $12 an hour jobs, wherever the minimum wage lies now.

- And that also is combined with, as we said, with the childcare problem and workers from other countries coming in for seasonal work.

And by the way, that's the reason why State of Affairs, together with ROI, co-facilitated, co-moderated, co-produced this forum on New Jersey's very uncertain, economic future.

Tom, let's make sure we do it again.

That's Tom Bergeron from ROI-NJ, Steve Adubato.

Tom, thanks for joining us, my friend.

- Good to be here.

- You got it.

Check us out next time.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato Is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by PSE&G.

Hackensack Meridian Health.

ADP.

Bank of America.

Summit Health Prudential Financial.

The Healthcare Foundation of New Jersey.

Choose New Jersey.

And by Operating Engineers, local 825.

Promotional support provided by NJ.Com, And by The New Jersey Business & Industry Association.

- Hello, this is Dr. Joseph Underwood, emergency medicine physician at Hackensack Meridian Health.

Health emergencies don't stop because of the COVID-19 pandemic.

So, if you're experiencing heart attack symptoms like chest pain or stroke symptoms, including balance or vision problems, please call 911 immediately.

To learn more about how Hackensack Meridian Health is providing you the best healthcare during this pandemic, visit HackensackMeridianHealth.

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