- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of State of Affairs with Steve Adubato has been provided by RWJBarnabas Health.

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[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi, I'm Steve Adubato way more importantly you see Steve Sweeney, the former President of the New Jersey State Senate.

Senator, good to see you.

- Good to see you, Steve.

- By the way, right out of the box, Does, the Former State Senate President, just hearing that bother you at all?

- A little bit, but you know in life, you get dealt setbacks in life and this was just a setback moving forward and got a lot of plans in the future.

So, you know.

- But let's get this one out of the way.

I mentioned this before we got on the air, Vince Lombardi, the great Vince Lombardi, New Jerseyan you have them over your shoulder because what's the hook.

- Well, one I'm a huge Vince Lombardi fan.

He was one of the greatest motivators ever.

And his story is unbelievable.

Two, I'm a Packer fan, which makes no one in New Jersey happy when I was running for office.

In South Jersey.

the Eagle fans would get mad at me and the North Jersey, you know, but if I was an Eagle fan, I'd still be in trouble in North Jersey.

- Hold on one second.

So Senator, if in fact you choose to run for governor in a few years just say you choose, will you renounce your Packer support because politically it would be dangerous?

- Never.

I will be a Packer fan 'till the day I die.

- And I also want to make sure people check out the interview that Steve Sweeney did with our colleague and good friend David Cruz for PBS.

It's a great interview.

So Senator, let me ask you this.

You said quote "I'm not done" that big headline.

I believe it was an NJ.Com, Ledger-- I'm not sure.

"I'm not done", not done doing what Senator?

- Working, continuing the work that I've been doing Steve to make New Jersey a better place.

There's a lot of work to be done, but you know, we've accomplished a whole lot during my tenure and look, and it's not me as an individual, but as legislators, you know, we saved the pension fund from going bankrupt.

It was going to go bankrupt 2015.

We finally made our full pension payment last year.

I'm proud of that Steve.

Changing, you know, negotiating healthcare changes with the teacher's union who tried to defeat me for years prior and to save a billion dollars, right?

That's that's big stuff, reverse auctions for, for prescriptions, which is like eBay for pharmaceutical prescriptions, save 2.5 billion higher education restructuring.

School funding, fixing the school funding formula moving forward.

You know, there's a lot that was done.

Minimum wage, paid family leave.

- Hold on Senator, what's left, not done doing what?

- Making New Jersey affordable.

New Jersey is too expensive Steve and it doesn't have to be that way.

- But you've been saying Senator I'm sorry for interrupting.

But you've been saying this for a long time.

You actually, several years ago when we were in our, in our studio in NJ PBS, I remember an interview when you started this initiative about affordability and looking at consolidation of local school districts and making New Jersey more affordable property tax issues, et cetera, et cetera.

this election, you did not expect to be voted out.

No one who knows anything about politics expected you to be voted out.

Governor Murphy had a very close race against Jack Ciattarelli with 1.1 million more Democrats.

So what would you say the number one message was not just to you, but to governor Murphy, 'cause if I'm not mistaken, governor Murphy lost by well over 10 percentage points in your district, you lost by a couple.

What was the biggest message that you and the governor should be taken out of this election, 2020 election?

2021, I'm sorry.

- I wish he lost by 10.

I would've won.

He lost by 15, 15.

- How many?

- 15.

You know it was impossible to overcome that.

We had 12,000 more people came out and voted in this election than prior elections.

And Steve, normally, if you get blown out, it's a 70/30, a hundred percent of those voters voted against me and we saved the nuclear plants.

We captured the offshore wind.

We created jobs.

We reduced retirement income taxes.

The message is we want you to focus on making New Jersey more affordable, stop with all these other plans and stay, you know, like let's get to the middle let's, let's get to the middle.

Let's focus on what matters to people.

And that's being able to live in their homes.

See if I can, we accomplished a great deal.

We raised a retirement income.

Like we used to tax retirement income.

We don't tax it at over a hundred thousand dollars now.

So 90% of seniors don't pay state income tax anymore.

I'm proud of that.

And that's excluding social security.

So, you know, we've done a lot of good, but this is how mad people are.

One, they're they're exhausted from the, from this COVID, they're exhausted.

And we, and I said this before, we have to learn how to live with it.

We need to move forward.

I'm not saying, you know, forget it.

I'm not, but I'm saying we have to learn how to live with it.

People are fed up.

You know, when you go into a bar or a restaurant and there are people, four people deep, no one is wearing a mask Steve, they're over this.

So we've got to find a way to protect everyone and move forward.

- Yeah.

Real quick, childcare affordability also has to do with the ability to work.

Give me 30 seconds on affordable quality childcare.

Because we have an initiative called Re-imagine Childcare.

Give me 30 seconds on that Senator.

- Steve, we, we put a hundred million into childcare this, last year's budget.

And obviously we need a lot more because parents can't go to work if they got to sit home with their children.

You know Steve and childcare is too expensive to start with.

So what we have to do is invest in childcare to make it affordable.

So parents can, you know, continue to move forward.

It's really disappointing what happened in Washington, with the childcare tax credit?

I don't get that because it's hurting working class people.

It's a direct shot at working class people.

So again, Democrats got to get their act together and start focusing on what matters, which is being able to afford living here.

- You talk about the Democrats.

So we have a series that we're doing called Democracy at a Crossroads, the graphic will be up, but here's the question.

Democracy is at a crossroads or democracy is in danger.

However you want to choose to describe it for a lot of reasons, but is one of those reasons, Steve, the fact that the democratic party is so divided?

Yes, we're divided as a country.

We're polarized, Trump, Biden, mask, no mask mandates.

I get all that.

There are people who don't even believe that Joe Biden's a legitimate president.

A high percentage of Republicans do not even believe that that being said, Steve Sweeney, is it hard for you sometimes to be part of a party where many are much further left of you, way more progressive than you, way more liberal than you, does it sometimes feel like that's not your party?

- Well, you know, they're just the loud faction of the party Steve.

80% of the both parties is in the middle.

80% of us are in the middle, we still are.

But the left, the far left and the far right, are just very loud.

And what happens is there's a dirty word that I believe in it's called compromise.

They don't.

So it's winner take all, you know, look down in Washington the Progressive's AOC and others almost handed Biden a defeat on his infrastructure bill, because they wanted everything and sometimes Steve, when I got to Trenton, I learned you're not going to score, you're not going to make a bunch of Hail Mary's, they're 20 yard passes down the field 'till you get into the end zone.

but you want to get the ball into the end zone.

And for the people that just think they're purists and it's all or nothing, well, 95% of the time you're going to get nothing.

And I'm a believer in getting things done.

You know Steve, like I didn't expect to lose an election.

I was shocked to be perfectly honest with you, but you know something.

Cause I'm, I really thought I'm the type of politician that people would want.

People that are willing to work with the other side.

New Jersey is not Washington.

We work very well together with our Republican colleagues to get things done for the people, the state.

- I'm going to do this before I let you go.

And I saw the interview with David Cruz, check it out to great interview, go on NJ PBS's website, but you did talk about your relationship with governor Murphy and I'm not interested in the intrigue, the back and forth, who thinks what's personal.

We care about policy.

The two of you have genuine policy disagreements.

You do.

- Absolutely.

Steve.

I want to go after illegal guns.

They're the ones that are committing crimes on the corners.

Not the guns that are just picking on legal gun owners, people that are the only ones that will follow the rules.

You know, the crimes in the street aren't being, aren't being created with people that go to the gun store and buy their ammunition and guns.

It's the people that are buying the guns illegally.

So how about we focus on a real issue, a real epidemic, which is illegal guns in this state and this country.

- Before you do go, you are going to create a think tank.

You will be announcing it soon.

It will be tied to a university.

Will that university be in the state of New Jersey?

- Yes.

- When you establish it, will you come back and talk?

Not just about the think tank, but about the kinds of issues that the think tank will be thinking about.

- Steve absolutely, because again what we're going to do is create something that is truly bipartisan and it's going to address issues like I did with Path to Progress.

The issues that everyone knows exists, but no one wants to touch because of political pressure.

We've got 70 school districts right now studying school consolidation.

Steve, five years ago that was unheard of.

So we were making progress, the pandemic slowed us down.

And like I said, this is a bump in the road for me, but I'm going to, I'm going to keep moving forward.

- As you said, I'm not done.

And I'm not even gonna ask you about running for governor.

You'll decide in the appropriate time.

We'll have that discussion.

Steve Sweeney all the best to you and your family.

More importantly.

- Thanks Steve, you too.

- All the best, that's Steve Sweeney.

I'm Steve Adubato, we'll be right back.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

We're joined by State Assemblywoman, Nancy Muñoz, deputy minority leader in the lower house in the Assembly, who also has a nursing background.

Nancy, real quick, remind our audience, your nursing background.

- I'm a licensed registered nurse with a Master's in nursing.

I have a long history of critical care nursing, worked in surgical ICUs and trauma centers.

And all of those experiences influence how I look at healthcare policy.

But more importantly, I always keep the nurses in mind When we look at legislation, because they're the greatest number of providers in the healthcare field.

- Assemblywoman, we've heard so many healthcare executives, hospital executives, physicians, and others saying, "We are losing nurses dramatically, two years into this pandemic."

This will be seen later.

Question, what the heck is the role, if any, of the government, state government and/or federal government, in trying to change the economic, this.

'Cause so many nurses are leaving and becoming, what do they call it, traveling nurses?

They go different hospitals.

They're way more expensive.

And what's happening is a lot of the hospital executives, We just had Shereef Elnahal, the former head of the Department of Health in the state, who's the CEO at University Hospital said, "We can't compete financially with that.

The traveling nurses are, they're getting a heck of a lot more and we're gonna bust our budget if we try to compete."

What do we need to do governmentally, policy-wise?

- Well, I think one of the things we need to do governmentally, is allow the nurses, and the advanced-practice nurses in particular, to practice to the full extent of their license.

You know, that is an important issue.

I've been working on it for 12 years.

They have restrictions on their practice, and they would increase the number of providers.

They're forced to sign a contract with a physician, or MD, or DO.

And in many cases, they have to pay that physician or DO to practice.

We have a mental health crisis.

We have mental health providers.

So number one, increase the number of providers who can practice without restrictions.

It's not increasing the scope of practice.

It's simply letting them practice without having to pay to do so.

The other thing is to make sure the nurses have a voice at the table when it comes to making policy within the hospitals.

I have put in legislation to make sure that the nurses are part of the team that determines what the staffing is.

I'm strongly opposed to staffing ratios, but I'm not opposed to allowing the nurses to be at the table.

To say, units that have a rapid turnover, that maybe they need more nurses per, you know, nurse-patient ratio can be changed.

Look at the acuity of the patient, and look at the experience of the nurse, the nurses who staff that floor.

Look at all those issues to make determinations.

Make sure that the nurses are part of that decision-making process.

I feel that sometimes the nurses are left out.

They're left out of policy, but they're also left out of that decision-making process.

And I think that's critical.

- One more quick question.

Nurses are clearly underpaid, or they can get more as traveling nurses.

Should there be a, can there be, a standard rate for a nurse to be on staff at a hospital, in an emergency department, wherever, where he or she is on there on a regular basis?

Can the government do that, or is that being overly involved in the the economic decision-making of individual hospitals?

- I think it's a bad policy, as a person who believes that government should not be in that business of setting rates, because it just drives up costs.

You know, we have data that shows whenever the government gets involved, costs go up because there's no incentive to actually work toward efficiencies.

So, you know, we already get, there's already premiums that you get for working the evening shift, the night shift, weekends, holidays.

Remember, hospitals are staffed 365 days a year, 24 hours a day.

You know, I worked since 1976.

I've worked at Yale New Haven.

We had premiums, if you work the Christmas shift, you got time and a half.

If you worked the evening shift, you got more.

So there's incentives already there.

- Finally, I'm sorry for interrupting, Assemblywoman.

Hasn't COVID changed everything in terms of the pressure on nurses?

They're burnt out, they're leaving.

They're getting better deals as traveling nurses, and they'll go around.

And it's just, they're getting better money.

- Yeah.

But you know what?

That's true, but it doesn't work for everyone.

You know, to be a traveling nurse, you know, do you have a family?

Do you gotta move your family every three months, do you have to find housing?

So, you know, there's other reasons that incentivize a nurse to stay at a hospital, including when hospitals provide continuing education so they can advance their degree in nursing.

I think that's a critical part of keeping nurses there.

I support nurses continuing their education, getting advanced degrees, and working toward getting a master's in nursing.

And at least a bachelor's in nursing.

I think it's the least we can expect of our nurses.

And those are the incentives that a hospital provides for a nurse who stays in the community.

And the other thing I will quickly say, - Real quick, Assemblywoman.

- that nurses, we have loan forgiveness programs for nurses, we already have them for doctors, who stay in underserved areas.

Let's have loan forgiveness programs for nurses who stay in underserved areas.

Who stay for five years, who say, "Okay, I'm gonna stay in this area for five years, provide mental health, primary care."

And then we have a loan forgiveness program for them as well.

I've been very supportive of that.

- That is state Assemblywoman Nancy Muñoz, who knows a lot, about not just public policy, but particularly the nursing profession.

Nancy, all the best to you and your family, thank you.

- Thank you, Happy Holidays.

- Same to you, we'll be right back after this.

(grand music) - [Announcer] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- There he is, you see him on your screen.

He is Jack Ciattarelli.

You may have seen a couple of commercials during the Fall of 2021.

He was the Republican Candidate for Governor.

He came awfully close, I think two or three percentage points, with 1.1 more million Dems than Republicans.

First of all, how you doin', Jack?

- Doin' great, Steve.

I'd rather be transitioning our State Government, but you know, seven hours sleep and three meals a day with the family ain't bad.

- Real quick, I know that we'll talk issues in just a second.

The biggest impact of that campaign on you and your family?

- Exhilarating experience.

It's great to get up close and personal with all of New Jersey.

We enjoyed it immensely, disappointed in the outcome, but not disappointed in the effort.

- You're obviously staying out there, and I'm not interested in the politics back and forth, you'll likely run again.

If you do, and again, you can't predict where we'll be in 2024 and 2025, but that race is in 2025, will the issues in your mind be the same issues that you ran on just a few months ago?

- They will be, Steve.

I wish the Governor every success.

I want New Jersey to be a state where people don't wanna leave, but I just have this strong sense that four years from now, we'll still be talking about the highest in the nation Property Taxes, the worst in the nation business climate, particularly for Small Business, and still a bloated, inefficient State Government that's not responsive to needs of citizens.

I also think we need to support our local law enforcement, security and safety in the community is a big issue for people, and certainly our schools.

We need to get back on track in teaching critical life skills and providing vocational training.

And the Governor is starting to talk about Property Taxes a little bit, but you still don't hear him talking about these other kitchen table issues.

- Jack, do you regret any of the, we did an in-depth interview with you, and it was very policy-oriented and we appreciate you taking the time, but it gave people a chance, along with the other interviews, particularly on NJ PBS with our colleagues there.

I'm curious, do you regret any position you took in that campaign where you say, 'You know what, if I had a mulligan'.

I'm a golfer who probably takes more mulligans than I should, which is a do over.

Is there any part where you say, 'You know what?

I should have handled that differently'.

I should've said something differently there.

- The things that I regret about the campaign, and it's all on me, Steve, is we needed make better inroads in the Black and Brown community throughout New Jersey.

We did well there, but not well enough.

And I need to put the resources in place to help make better inroads in the Black and Brown community.

And I should've better deployed my Lieutenant Governor Candidate, Diane Allen, who's a decorated champion for women's issues.

Phil Murphy beat me up a whole lot in that area, and I could've better deployed Diane Allen.

Those are two things I would certainly do differently.

- You know, New Jersey elections are influenced by other things going on, particularly nationally.

And you're no fan of Joe Biden.

You want him to succeed, but you're no fan from a public policy point of view.

But I also remember asking you a lot about Donald Trump.

People could say, 'Oh, that's in the past'.

And I remember you saying, 'I only want to talk about state issues', but Jack, you're a national figure in the Republican Party right now, and where people are on Trump.

And I don't just mean Trump, I mean, but Trump's saying that the 2020 election is a lie.

That Biden shouldn't be the President, that 2/3 to 3/4 of your party thinks Biden's not really the legitimate President.

You don't believe any of that stuff, A, and since you don't, and you believe the election was legitimate, how do you engage those in your party who believe the whole election was stolen?

- By just going out, reminding them what's at stake, our future.

And the best way to address that is with a Gubernatorial Election.

And so, I've said from the very beginning that Joe Biden's our President, and there may be those that disagree.

But listen, when you're running for Governor, it's all about New Jersey, and listen Steve, I appreciate the kind words, but I don't think of myself as a national figure.

I think of myself as a lifelong citizen of this state, who's got very specific ideas on how to fix this broken state of ours, and that's what I'll continue to focus on.

- So, let me try this.

People take different things from the election.

The Governor has said, and we look forward to having Governor Murphy talking policy issues as well in the near future.

But the governor said, 'You know what?

People say I should be moving more to the center, and the message was we're too progressive, we're too far to the left, the Democrats'.

And they disagreed with some things he was doing around the pandemic, but you know what he said?

He said, 'You know something?

if we didn't have such progressive policies that we succeeded in New Jersey with me as Governor, I wouldn't have won'.

He takes a very different message than I believe you perceive in this election.

Go ahead, Jack.

- Hey, listen.

All I know, Steve, is that our message resonated, and this was a very, very close election.

I was in it to win it.

And history told us it was going to be close, but I don't think it's any surprise that all of a sudden the Governor, in his State of the State, was talking about things like Property Taxes, the kitchen table, common sense, and not increasing taxes.

He's talking about the affordability crisis in New Jersey.

I think that's all a result of the election.

So yes, I lost, but that doesn't mean we were unsuccessful.

- I asked you about childcare last time, I'll do it again, because we have an ongoing initiative looking at affordable, accessible childcare, re-imagining childcare.

Real quick, 30 seconds on the connection between affordable, accessible childcare to talk about affordability, and people being able to work.

- Absolutely.

This is a critical issue, particularly for those of the lower income levels.

And I would go about Pre-K in entirely different way than he is to help address this and making sure that there's tax credits for those that have childcare expenses.

Definitely an important issue, and part of the whole affordability crisis in New Jersey.

- When you speak about affordability, Jack are you open to the idea of mandating that certain very small communities that have their own Police Department, Fire Department, Board of Education, Superintendent of Schools, et cetera, et cetera, 567 municipalities, if that's the number, I don't even know what it is, but it's in that neighborhood.

Are you for, I know you're not big on mandates, but are you for, 'Hey, listen, you gotta consolidate, 'cause local government costs too much, and that has a lot to do with property taxes'.

Can't blame all that on Murphy.

Go ahead, Jack.

- Hey, this state loves its Home Rule, Steve, you know that.

And I would advocate for it, I would encourage it, and as Governor, I would strongly incentivize it, but I've learned the hard way, having served as a Council President in a Borough, and a Freeholder Director in Somerset, that's a Home Rule decision and people have to make that decision.

What I've always said, that I'm specific to the Property Tax crisis is, Property Taxes are high for two reasons.

All the duplication of services, that's your domain at the local level, and the way we fund schools, I'll take care of that in Trenton.

So I'll incentivize regionalization, if that's what you want to do at the local level, and I'll fix Property Taxes as best I can with a new school funding formula.

- Real quick, 2022 small business picture in the state of New Jersey.

One third of those businesses have been lost since the pandemic two years in plus.

What do you see for small business in New Jersey this year, 2022?

- Let me tell you what I don't see.

I don't see tax incentives to help spur small business, nor do I see less regulations with regard to business startups and business operations.

And that's what Main Street definitely needs, desperately needs, in light of the pandemic and in light of their competition with things like Amazon and the big box stores, who Phil Murphy seems to be more inclined to be supportive of.

- So you don't believe those grants and loans are helping those small businesses?

- You can talk to those small susinesses, its way too bureaucratic, Steve.

Talk to small business owners, they either don't know the programs, and those that do, say it is way too difficult to get their hands on the money.

It's been way too bureaucratic, way too much red tape.

Unfortunately, we're kind of used to that here in New Jersey.

- You've been listening to and watching Jack Ciattarelli.

He ran for Governor in 2021 in the great State of New Jersey, probably gonna do it again.

And we'll have a whole range of discussions around public policy that impacts you and your families.

Hey Jack, speaking of families, best to you and your family.

Thanks so much for joining us.

- Many thanks, Steve.

It was great to be with you.

- You got it.

I'm Steve Adubato, that's Jack Ciattarelli, and we'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato Is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by RWJBarnabas Health.

New Jersey Sharing Network.

The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

Johnson & Johnson.

NJM Insurance Group.

Operating Engineers, local 825.

Eastern Atlantic States Regional Council of Carpenters.

Fedway Associates, Inc. And by these public spirited organizations, individuals and associations committed to informing New Jersey citizens about the important issues facing the Garden State.

And by Employers Association of New Jersey.

Promotional support provided by ROI-NJ, and by Insider NJ.

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