it was another busy week for the Indiana General Assembly.

>> Among the headlines a House measure to create a loan fund for local governments to offset infrastructure costs for new housing developments.

>> That measure cleared the government government rather and Regulatory Reform Committee and it's now headed to the House floor in the Senate, a measure to allocate funds to the northeast Indiana Strategic Development Commission to improve economic opportunities for residents and local businesses that cleared the Senate Tax and Fiscal Committee and that committee's work is now including proposal to allow certain businesses to deduct all state tax payments on federal tax returns and to establish a state and local tax review commission to study the feasibility of eliminating Indiana's income tax.

The author of these perspective pieces of legislation is our guest this evening on Prime Time and good evening.

Thanks for joining us.

I'm Bruce Haines with us.

Today is 19th District Republican State Senator and Majority Caucus Chair Travis Holdman and we invite you to join the conversation with your questions and comments.

Just call the number that you see on the screen as we widen out and welcome Senator Holdman.

>> Travis, thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Bruce .

It's a pleasure to be here and we realize even though it's a long session, it took just a matter of just a few short days to bring forward something that may take the next two years and that's the notion of the commission to to study that when you had said before the session began as we look to our long term future, I think a goal for Indiana should be to totally eliminate individual income tax rates in the years to come.

>> Why it's a great attraction for people outside of the state of Indiana to come to Indiana and it's a great reason for people to stay here rather than move to Florida or Tennessee or Texas to states that the seven states in the country that have no individual income tax right now we're on a path to glide down to two point nine percent in another five years that would get us tied for states that have an individual income tax has the lowest tied with North Dakota.

But we feel like it's a great attraction to get people here and keep people and it has a great benefit for the small business owner because it's Korps and l'Eau sees that income to the corporation passes through to their personal return on the individual rate and so they would benefit greatly by by having no individual income tax because it's a pass through as we call it.

>> And I think I remember 15 years or so since the last time a holistic look at taxes was was taken on in Indiana.

>> So the timing seems on that alone to be close close close to 20 or 20 or so.

Governor O'Bannon was at the state house at the time but were we're getting to the point where we can see light at the end of the tunnel with a pre teacher retirement fund debt that we owe and we've got that down to less than six billion dollars.

When I started in the Senate we were about 18 to 19 billion dollars and we have been very consistent and disciplined to pay down that debt as much as we can.

And the recent years it's been about a billion dollars has been appropriated on an annual basis to pay down that debt were between six and five billion dollars.

Now we can see a light at the end of the tunnel and it was just my thought that we need to examine what we can do in the in the long run rather than wait until we are faced with the fact that we have an extra billion dollars to spend or give back to the taxpayer which I would prefer that we do.

So don't wait until we're in the state of an emergency.

This would give us plenty of time to develop a strategy and a plan with a two year study and then give us time to craft legislation.

One thing we want to do is not make a mistake when we set a new rate for sales tax or a new rate for individual income tax or corporate tax, we want to make sure we get it right the first time because it's going to be very difficult to come back and say oops, we made a mistake.

We need to have higher taxes.

Right.

I don't plan to be there probably if that happens because the voter will decide that I'm not going to be there.

>> I'm sure you can.

>> Such changes in tax structure be revenue neutral?

No, no.

We would have to make it up in some in some fashion if we if we give up the seven close to seven billion dollars in individual income tax that we're collecting today that would have to be made up in some other fashion through sales tax, through local income tax, property tax tax on something that we haven't even thought of before.

But I think the other component that we want to take a look at is how we can become more efficient as a government, both local government and state government.

That's not really been the focus but that's part of the discussion that we're having because the current players don't necessarily like to talk about how inefficient government may be.

But I think some of the more progressive thinking government leaders are thinking we could do a better job, we can think outside the box, we can do a better job than what we're doing now to get more bang for our buck.

Save the taxpayer dollars and get better service for the taxpayer.

>> I understand that there are seven states already that levy no individual income tax and two others tax wages or salary income.

>> No doubt these are case studies for the commission.

Any initial sense of how that work with those states has played so far?

Well, we don't have beaches and we don't have Disney World so Florida will not necessarily be well not necessarily be the state that we look at although we can glean from what they have done most likely.

But I think the state that we need to target is a place like Wyoming in a place like Tennessee that is more akin to Indiana than Texas, Arizona, Nevada, Florida than than what Tennessee may be.

>> How has the reaction to the idea of the commission been received in the assembly so far it's been very positive.

>> Both sides of the aisle are excited about the prospect.

The trouble I'm running into now are people wanting appointments with me to talk to me about them wanting to be on the commission and folks that I don't even know have been contacting me wanting to be on the commission because they have an idea my what I envision is the commission of about fourteen or fifteen folks government leaders and interest groups in the state.

But then we will have to have some subcommittee work because the task is just too large for that group to tackle the monstrosity of looking at for instance, property tax and very complicated structure that we have in Indiana very complex.

So it's going to take a working group to study some of those individual tax structures to see how they may benefit, how they can be cut, how they can be restructured than what we have currently and when considering two of the larger players the income tax and the sales tax, I think the income tax is second only to the sales tax.

>> That's four components of the revenue.

So there's going to be some give and take or something.

>> So yeah.

Yes, You've done your homework, Bruce .

>> I'm proud of you going for a liberal arts.

You know, we're working hard to finance.

>> I'm good at explaining my answer.

Go there you go.

So we have a timeline for the next couple of years and then move into legislation.

The next budget cycle will next biennium in twenty five and then see where it goes.

>> How big a commission then are you envisioning and is that a fair question at this point as far as the number of people?

>> Well right now I think we have fourteen identified that would be on the commission itself with a requirement that they meet at least four times this year and four times next year and then come back with a report for the twenty five legislative session.

>> OK, we have a question comment on this topic and let's go to the phones and welcome Stan to the program.

>> Stan, go ahead with your with your thoughts are hello and thank you for taking my call.

I just wanted to comment I am a farmer in rural County, Indiana.

I pay quite a bit of property tax.

Has that idea of eliminating personal income tax I think is a very bad idea.

Indiana as one of the highest sales taxes already sales taxes are the most regressive form of taxation that exists.

It hurts the bottom 90 percent of the popular while allowing the top 10 percent to continue to amass their massive wealth that has occurred in the past twenty , thirty years.

I hate to see Indiana take a giant step backwards.

It's just going to end up increasing pain and suffering on the poor people in Indiana and also and also I guarantee to increase property taxes which affects all the property owners in Indiana.

>> That is my.

All right.

Well stand thank you for your comment and let's see what Senator Hoeven would like to respond to.

>> Appreciate that input.

I've heard that before.

And so we're not saying that this is going to happen.

It may be that we don't do anything but we're at least going to take a look at it.

And I want folks to understand that that there's no no undertow here that that things are going to happen and we're trying to to create some kind of a smokescreen for what we intend to do.

We intend to take a look at all tax to make sure it's fair and equitable across the line and that's that's what we're doing.

>> We'll go back to the phones and welcome Tim to Prime Time Tim good evening, sir.

>> Go ahead please.

Oh yes.

I'm Mr. Haldeman.

Why don't we legalize marijuana if not for recreational use for medical use?

I mean it has innumerable number of cures so and I'm sure it brings in some good revenue and I'm just wondering if it's because like Big Pharma, like Eli Lilly, they're not they wouldn't want to see their medical marijuana legalized.

>> Would you care to comment for a well, I think there's a lot of issues surrounding medical marijuana and to be quite honest with you, I think it's just a prelude to recreational marijuana and recreational use and I would if we're going to do it just go all the way for recreational use because it's somewhat of a farce to to have a doctor prescribe marijuana use because they can't prescribe it because it's not measured.

The content is unknown so they write an order is how is how that works.

I travel to Las Vegas a number of years ago when they first passed medical marijuana legislation allowed for medical marijuana to be legal and the as you can imagine the big neon signs as you travel on the interstate was a walking clinic will get you a prescription.

We'll get you an order immediately upon coming to the clinic.

So it's it's it's it's kind of a farce to because my personal opinion to go the medical marijuana route I don't just I don't disagree that there may be some medical benefit to it.

The biggest problem that I have with legalizing marijuana is the fact that cannabis and THC above point three percent or higher is a schedule one drug federally and so all these other states have just the federal government has just turned a blind eye to the fact that they are doing something that they're not supposed to be doing.

And I think we have 27 states now that have legalized marijuana use either for medicinal purposes or for recreational use.

The federal government needs to take some action on this issue and resolve it for Indiana.

I think you're going to see the day when marijuana will be legalized in the state of Indiana whether it's for medicinal purposes or recreational use.

>> I just don't think we're quite there yet.

Tim, thank you very much for your comment and we invite you to join us as well if you have a question or comment for Senator Travis Holden who's with us here live in PrimeTime this evening behind SB three, the tax commission study is SB two also assigned to the Senate Tax and Fiscal Policy Committee SB two bears the label taxation of pass through entities.

What did I just say and what does this legislation do?

>> Well, it's very complicated and I'll I'll try to frame it as simply as I can with the Tax Act of 2017 it limited the amount of taxes that could be deducted on your federal return and for pass through so that Subhas LLC s corporations that are not see Korps and it also includes trusts.

So what Senate Bill two would allow an individual to do would be to take all of that deduction by state law not impacting our revenue stream at all in Indiana but it would allow for that individual as a member of an S corp or an LLC to take that deduction.

All of that deduction off of their federal tax.

And so we just need to take action at the state level to allow that to happen at the federal level and we're working hard to try to get that done.

The intent is to fast track that bill because we have been engaged with the CPA society here in Indiana.

My own tax accountant called me this week.

We had a discussion about whether we could get this done quickly enough because folks are trying to get their tax returns and the information gathered together.

We want to make it effective January the 1st of twenty twenty two.

So it would be on tax filing for twenty three coming up here in just a few weeks.

I was on the phone I told you earlier Bruce I think I was on the phone about six or seven times today with staff in the fiscal office that's working with me on the program with Senator Baldwin who's signed a bill to and we're going to get the we're going and get the job done.

I had several conversations the department revenue today as well their general counsel to try to get some of the differences resolved between the Doha's version of the bill that they want and what we want as legislators for the are our people out there in the field that this would apply to and legislation of this kind also then has a positive impact on economic development as well.

It's estimated to be about fifty million dollars a year for a season that's korps.

And with all that you see how each piece of legislation seems akin to its neighbor.

And as you move through the list of those things which are being considered through the General Assembly, there is one very close to home with economic development the Northeast Indiana Strategic Development Commission with a strategic plan that had been at least two years in the making.

>> I think its announcement came out last November.

You're on that commission good news this week that it looks like the funding for the commission is on its way out of committee heading to the Senate floor.

We're on the list.

We build a list in the Senate because the legislation for the the funding for the budget has to begin in the House of Representatives constitutionally.

>> And so all of the bills that we passed that have any funding attached to them, we take the funding and we put that on a list as we move through the process and then we get to the point when the House sends over their legislation to us about four to five weeks we'll be able then to determine what they have done with bills that we have shared with them because we have sister bills and that are moving through the house just like they are in the Senate and so we will be able to consolidate those and then we'll make a determination as to whether or not we can get the funding.

But there's strategic Development Commission is a great thing for northeast Indiana.

I don't know if people understand this or not but northeast Indiana has got their act together and we are envied by other regions all over the state of Indiana.

We had a Senate retreat here in August in Fort Wayne .

We brought all of the majority Senate members here to Fort Wayne .

Thirty nine of us and some of them left a little disturbed at the progress and all the development that's going on in northeast Indiana.

We gave them a little bus tour, showed them some of the progress that's going on and some of the development and they were a little jealous of what northeast Indiana has going because we cooperate and we work well together and that commission is speaking to this this broad area with the regional chambers assistance as well to increase area population per capita income and then a connection to education through post-secondary credential attainment is is that the connection the idea of the reimagining of of high school options for those who may want to pursue something after graduation but not necessarily traditional?

>> That's right.

We want to make sure that there's a linkage between K-12 education and industry and higher as an industry because of all the higher ed institutions we have in the region.

And not only that, but we wanted to talk to folks about recruitment and retention, getting folks here to the region, quality of life issues, trying to do what we can to provide additional funding for projects throughout the whole region.

The 11 counties in northeast Indiana to develop projects that get people here and keep people here once they're here and keep our young folks from leaving the area.

>> Yeah, connected question with education to show you have the degrees of separation are not very many Steve wants to know he's called in with an offline question what is the plan for raising the salaries of state teachers?

>> Well, the governor has a robust plan to increase K-12 education funding.

Just keep in mind that we do not fund teachers pay.

We fund the students and we fund the districts.

>> Local school boards make a decision how much the teachers are going to be paid and we just give them the resource to do that and six percent increase I think it is over the four and two I believe overall in the in the biennium related to that just looking for all the pieces of that that end up connecting you have a bill that relates to financial literacy to pursue in high school.

Talk about that.

Well, we feel there's a gap there that some schools have really taken this on and others have not to to do what we can to make sure the students learn about financial literacy having come out of the banking world, it's very important that we teach kids how to budget and I think it's just an important function because they need to know how credit card debt can impact their life for a long time if they get in too deep.

And it's just an important factor that we need to make sure that kids are taught about financial literacy.

>> There is still an opportunity to learn about the importance with finances relative to the historic properties within the state of Indiana tax credit still available allowing a tax credit that's for somebody who what has taken on board or renovation the reclamation of a home or dwelling or really pertains more to business business to and commercial districts that are on the or on the federal list and those to qualify for that tax credit and it's really a redevelopment bill rather than tear a building down.

We provided incentive for folks to redevelop that project and reclaim an historic building to be used for business development in all of this we're going into an interesting session because it it carries still the echoes of Governor Holcomb State of the state address you serve on the Appropriations Committee in the Senate and even as a member of that body of having a chance to ask you your reaction to the way the governor's table setting of what missions to be accomplished between now and the end of April while he's identified some core issues, I think that we've got to pay attention to being mental health and the Health Commission's recommendations.

Those are two large items along with K-12 education.

I think mental health is taking center stage on a lot of issues.

The pandemic just sort of pulled the trigger on on mental health issues and as you and I discussed earlier, part of the problem is just having workers and therapists and social workers available to us .

We can throw all the money in the world at it.

But if we don't have people who can actually carry out what needs to be done to help people with mental health issues, it's it's a it's a serious situation for and in in looking to we're waiting for Barbara it looks like there is a question coming so we have a chance to sneak this in.

I'll hold my Barbara's is whether there are any plans on how district lines are drawn.

>> We went through that not too long ago but that is an ongoing process.

>> I believe there are no plans to do anything different than what we've done so far.

We're 10 years away from redistricting again and so that's that's a question that usually comes up in about the sixth or seventh year, Barbara.

But you're very astute to ask the question now.

But right now we're just trying to solve the issues of public health , education, mental health and economic development workforce issues as well.

>> And in our final minute here for this program, Senator, any any thoughts on other legislation areas that you're keeping an eye on though may not have been anything about what you've you've you authored a piece yourself, something you're you're looking to see as it tracks over the weeks ahead?

>> Well, one of the things that we're we're discussing this issue or one Senate joint resolution one which has to do with reform and we made some tweaks to bail reform.

Folks can read about it in detail in the paper.

It would take me the rest of the time just to explain even being an attorney.

It's difficult to explain to folks sometimes but it would be a change in our Constitution.

So what happens when we propose a change in the Constitution?

It has to pass this session and then it has to pass another duly elected legislative session.

So the next session would be a short session which is technically the same session as this year and so it would be the twenty five session when we would reconsider the legislation again and then if that's the case then it would actually go on the ballot not until 2020 or six before it could actually be voted on by the voter to change the Constitution.

>> It's a long drawn out process and this is going to be just like the serial where you have to tune in again next week who are tuning in again a couple of weeks a line as we continue because we've reached the end of our time together not too much but it's it's something we will all follow together here on prime time 19th District Republican State Senator and Majority Caucus Chair Travis Holdeman.

>> Thank you, sir.

Thank you, Bruce .

Thank you.

Folks, have a good evening.

What he said.

Take care.

Good night