CONTRARY", THE U.S. SENATE VOTE TO PROTECT ABORTION RIGHTS FAILS AS EXPECTED.

WILL ANTIABORTION POLITICIANS OF FOR REELECTION PAY AT THE POLLS IN NOVEMBER?

THEN HIGHLY PAID, HIGHLY EDUCATED WOMEN PROTEST CORPORATE ORDERS TO RETURN TO THE OFFICE FULL-TIME.

WHAT CAN LOW INCOME WOMEN DO?

[MUSIC] >> BONNIE: HELLO.

I AM BONNIE ERBE.

WELCOME TO "TO THE CONTRARY", A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, SEEKING A NEW STRATEGY: CAN DEMOCRATIC SENATE CONTENDERS MAKE ANTIABORTION CANDIDATES PAY AT THE POLLS FOR VOTING AGAINST ABORTION RIGHTS?

DEMOCRATS TRY THIS WEEK TO PASS A FEDERAL LAW MAKING ABORTION LEGAL.

ONE MODERATE DEMOCRAT OPPOSED THE MEASURE, AS DID THE TWO SELF NAMED PRO-CHOICE REPUBLICANS IN THE SENATE, MAINE'S SUSAN COLLINS AND LISA MURKOWSKI FROM ALASKA.

THIS COMES AFTER U.S. SUPREME COURT DRAFT DECISION ELIMINATING ROE VERSUS WADE WAS LEAKED TO THE MEDIA.

PROTESTS ARE BEING STAGED ACROSS THE COUNTRY AS FAMILY PLANNING ORGANIZATIONS AND POOR PEOPLE TO GET INVOLVED.

DEMOCRATS HOPE THIS WILL INSPIRE PEOPLE TO VOTE DEMOCRATIC IN THE UPCOMING MIDTERMS, WHICH TYPICALLY COSTS SEATS TO THE PARTY IN POWER.

THE U.S.'S TURN AWAY FROM THE ABORTION RIGHTS IS AN ANOMALY ACROSS THE AMERICAS.

IN LATIN AMERICA, ABORTION ACCESS IS EXPANDING.

JOINING ME TODAY ARE FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE DONNA EDWARDS OF MARYLAND, ANN STONE, REPUBLICAN POLITICAL CONSULTANT; PODCAST HOST DANIELLE MOODIE; AND TIANA LOWE, WASHINGTON TIMES COLUMNIST.

DONNA, WOULD FEDERAL LEGISLATION HAVE EVEN BEEN EFFECTIVE BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT HAS THE SUPREME RIGHT TO DECIDE MATTERS OF THE CONSTITUTION?

>> REP. DONNA EDWARDS: YEAH, BUT OF COURSE IT WOULD MEAN, IT WOULD LAY A FOUNDATION ACROSS THE NATION FOR ONE STANDARD FOR ABORTION RIGHTS.

AND I THINK IT WOULD MAKE IT THEN VERY -- OBVIOUSLY VERY DIFFICULT FOR STATES TO UNDERMINE THAT ON THEIR OWN, AND IT WOULD BE THE BASIS UPON WHICH THE SUPREME COURT WOULD HOLD CONGRESS IN LEGISLATIVE DECISION UPHOLDING WOMEN'S RIGHTS TO ABORTION.

SO I THINK IT WAS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT TO TAKE THAT TO TAKE THAT VOTE, BUT TO PASS FEDERAL LEGISLATION.

>> BONNIE: ANN, DO YOU AGREE?

>> ANN STONE: YOU KNOW, I THINK THE VOTE WAS SYMBOLIC.

IT WAS A POLITICAL PLOY TO TRY TO ISOLATE CERTAIN SENATORS THEREIN KEY RACES TO ALLOW SCHUMER TO BE ABLE TO RETAIN HIS MAJORITY.

SO I'M ACTUALLY KIND OF TICKED OFF ABOUT IT, BECAUSE I THINK THEY COULD HAVE DONE MORE TO WORK WITH MURKOWSKI AND COLLINS TOGETHER WITH THE BILL THAT -- >> BONNIE: WAIT A MINUTE.

YOU DON'T THINK THEY WERE POLITICAL PLOYS THAT GAVE MITCH McCONNELL PULL WHEN HE WAS MAJORITY LEADER THAT GAVE THE REPUBLICANS TWO SEATS ON THE SUPREME COURT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN APPOINTED BY DEMOCRATIC -- DEMOCRATS?

>> REP. DONNA EDWARDS: THAT'S NOT THE QUESTION.

BOTH SIDES PLAY POLITICS.

>> BONNIE: I MEAN, MY POINT IS JUST TO SAY THAT THIS WAS A POLITICAL PLOY, DUH, THAT'S ALL THAT HAPPENS IN WASHINGTON.

>> ANN STONE: NO, NO, IT IS IN ALL.

AND THAT SHOULD NOT BE THE STANDARD THAT WE'RE HOLDING PEOPLE TO.

THE POINT IS, THEY COULD HAVE WORKED WITH COLLINS AND MURKOWSKI, COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY BROUGHT A FEW MORE REPUBLICANS OVER AND ALSO MAY NOT HAVE COST THEM MANCHIN'S VOTE.

SO BOTH SIDES PLAY POLITICS, BUT THIS WAS CLEARLY JUST ABOUT POLITICS.

DON'T TRY TO CAST IT THAT IT WAS TO PROTECT WOMEN BECAUSE IT WASN'T.

IT WAS TO PROTECT SCHUMER AND HIS MAJORITY.

THAT'S ALL IT WAS ABOUT.

>> DANIELLE MOODIE: I MEAN, THAT'S AT THIS: ONE, NOTABLY THAT JOE MANCHIN IS ACTUALLY A DEMOCRAT AND I THINK THAT HE'S BEEN MORE OF A THREAT TO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND ANY REPUBLICAN COMBINED.

WE ALREADY KNOW WHAT REPUBLICANS SAID AND WHERE THEIR FEELINGS HAVE BEEN ON ABORTION FOR THE LAST 50 YEARS.

SO FOR DEMOCRATS WERE NOT TO ACT SHOCKED, AS IF, ONE, THEY DID NOT PUT TOGETHER ANY KIND OF LOCAL OR STATE STRATEGY OF BROWN CODIFYING ABORTION, THEN, TWO, TO CONTINUE TO BELIEVE THAT WE ARE GOING TO NEGOTIATE WITH PEOPLE THAT HAVE MOVED SO FAR TO THE RIGHT THAT SOMEHOW THOSE COMPROMISE TO BE MADE, THERE ISN'T.

THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS NO LONGER A LEGITIMATE POLITICAL PARTY FOR US TO BE IN CONVERSATION WITH.

AND SO, YES, WAS IT A POLITICAL PLOY TO ANN'S POINT?

YEAH, IT WAS, BUT THIS IS WHAT WE DO.

IT'S POLITICS.

AND I CAN'T STAND WHEN WE CONTINUE TO SAY THAT WE'RE JUST LIKE PLAYING POLITICS.

IT'S THE INDUSTRY AND IT IS THE GAME.

RIGHT NOW IT'S ABOUT SECURING OUR DEMOCRACY.

AND YOU CAN'T DO THAT WHEN WOMEN ARE NOT TREATED AS EQUAL PARTICIPANTS IN OUR COUNTRY.

>> BONNIE: DO YOU THINK THIS ISSUE AND THIS VOTE IN THE SENATE THIS WEEK, DANIELLE, WILL GET YOUNG WOMEN, AND PARTICULARLY YOUNG WOMEN OF COLOR, OUT BOATING IN NOVEMBER?

>> DANIELLE MOODIE: BUT HERE'S THE THING, BONNIE: YOUNG WOMEN OF COLOR ARE THE ONES THAT ALWAYS SHOW UP.

WE ARE THE BASE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

AND SO, THIS ISN'T ABOUT GALVANIZING WOMEN OF COLOR, BLACK WOMEN, LATINX WOMEN, INDIGENOUS WOMEN, THIS IS ABOUT -- >> BONNIE: MEN OF COLOR, WHAT ABOUT MEN OF COLOR?> DANIELLE MOODIE: HERE'S THE ISSUE [CROSS TALK] WHAT ABOUT WHITE WOMEN?

WHY ARE WE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR TO SAVE THE COUNTRY FROM ITSELF?

HOW ABOUT WE TALK ABOUT THE 53% OF WHITE WOMEN WHO VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP AND THEN INCREASED THAT MARGIN IN THE 2020 ELECTION BECAUSE THEY WANT TO VOTE ALONGSIDE OF HER HUSBAND?

SO THIS IS NOT A CONVERSATION ONCE AGAIN ABOUT HOW PEOPLE OF COLOR, RIGHT, AS THIS CLUNKER GOING TO SAVE WHITE AMERICA FROM ITSELF, BECAUSE WHITE WOMEN WILL BE FINE BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES AND THE ABILITY AND THE POWER TO BE ABLE TO GET AN ABORTION.

WHAT BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN HAVE BEEN OUT IN THE STREETS FOR THE LONGEST TIME.

>> Bonnie: AS SOMEONE WHO HAS COVERED FIVE OR SIX PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGNS IN MY LIFE, THE GOP DOES NOT HAVE MUCH OF A GET OUT THE VOTE EFFORT AND IT DOESN'T NEED IT.

THE DEMOCRATS DO.

AND THEY ARE WHITE -- YOU KNOW, I AM NOT GOING TO DEFEND FEMALE TRUMP SUPPORTERS, BUT IT IS PEOPLE OF COLOR WHO DON'T GO TO THE POLLS IN REPRESENTATIVE PERCENTAGES THE WAY REPUBLICANS DO WHO ARE MAINLY WERE ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY WHITE.

ANYWAY, TIANA, YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW THIS WILL AFFECT VOTERS, AND WILL ENERGIZE DEMOCRATS> TIANA LOWE: SO I'M JUST GOING TO TAKE IT BACK TO THE STATS FOR A MOMENT SO WE CAN GROUND THIS CONVERSATION WITH A BIT OF REALITY.

THAT IS, WHO BROADLY IDENTIFIES AS PRO-LIFE VERSUS PRO-CHOICE HAS BEEN STAGNATED.

IT'S NOT LIKE AN ISSUE LIKE A MARRIAGE OR MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION OR TRANSGENDER AMERICANS IN THE MILITARY.

WE ARE AMERICANS BY AND LARGE IN BOTH PARTIES HAVE GOT MUCH MORE PROGRESSIVE.

IT'S AN ISSUE THAT'S REMAINED PRIMARILY DEADLOCKED AND IT'S BECAUSE OF THIS.

ROUGHLY 2/3 OF THE COUNTRY IS BROADLY SUPPORTIVE OF FIRST TRIMESTER ABORTION BEING LEGAL.

WHEN HE GOT INTO WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT THE MORALITY.

IT'S MUCH MORE COMPLICATED.

BUT THEY BROADLY BELIEVE IN SAFE LEGAL AND RARE.

YOU ASK ABOUT SECOND TRIMESTER ABORTIONS IN THE NUMBER DROPS DOWN TO THREE IN 10.

YOU ASK ABOUT THEIR TRIMESTER ABORTIONS, THAT DROPS DOWN TO 13 PERCENT OF THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.

AND THAT IS WHAT THE SENATE PUT UP FOR A VOTE AND IT'S WHY IT WAS A BAD VOTE.

>> BONNIE: NOW THAT THE SUPREME COURT HAS SEEMINGLY HANDED OR IS ABOUT TO HAND THE STATES AN OPEN BOOK, HEY, PASS WHATEVER LAWS YOU WANT, YOU CAN BILLION DOLLARS ABORTION COMPLETELY, YOU DON'T THINK THAT'S GOING TO ENERGIZE VOTERS TOO DO YOU OR DON'T YOU?

>> TIANA LOWE: THE COLLINS MURKOWSKI BILL WOULD'VE ACTUALLY CODIFIED ROE WITH THE CASEY FRAMEWORK, WHICH WOULD HAVE NEEDED THE STATES WERE THEN BARRED FROM PUTTING RESTRICTIONS ON ABORTION BEFORE THE POINT OF FETAL VIABILITY.

>> BONNIE: DONNA, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

DO YOU THINK THIS IS GOING TO ENERGIZE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS?

>> REP. DONNA EDWARDS: THESE SWING DISTRICTS IN THE HOUSE THAT ARE GOING TO BE DECIDED BY ONE OR 2 PERCENT OF THE VOTE, AN ISSUE LIKE THIS WHERE A DECISION IS GOING TO COME OUT AT THE END OF JUNE, COULD ACTUALLY BE A MOBILIZING AND GALVANIZING ISSUE FOR WOMEN.

AND IN THOSE HANDFUL OF SENATE STATES THAT ARE UP FOR GRABS, I THINK THAT WOMEN CAN BE MOBILIZED ON THIS ISSUE.

YOUNG MEN AS WELL.

BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO HINGE ON WHETHER BLACK AND BROWN WOMEN SHOW UP.

WE ARE GOING TO SHOW UP FOR OUR RIGHTS.

THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THE DECISION IS GOING TO HINGE ON A NARROW GROUP OF WHITE WOMEN WHO TURN THOSE DISTRICTS IN THOSE STATES BY 1 TO 2 PERCENT.

>> BONNIE: ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT PROGRESSIVE WHITE WOMEN WHO JUST DON'T BOTHER TO VOTE, OR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT TRUMP SUPPORTERS OR -- >> REP. DONNA EDWARDS: NO, THIS IS A VERY NARROW GROUP OF 1-2 PERCENT OF VOTERS REDUCE DISTRICTS TURN ON THAT SMALL PERCENTAGE AND THEY ARE NOT TRUMP SUPPORTERS.

THEY ARE MODERATE WOMEN, PRIMARILY WHITE SUBURBAN WOMEN, IN THESE DISTRICTS, AND I THINK THAT THE STATES AND DISTRICTS ARE GOING TO TURN ON THAT VOTE.

THAT IS WHERE WE NEED TO BE MOBILIZING.

>> ANN STONE: WELL, I HAVE LESS CONCERN ABOUT THE HOUSE.

THE SENATE IS REALLY WHERE A DIFFERENCE COULD BE MADE.

THERE ARE A COUPLE OF SEATS WISCONSIN'S ONE, POSSIBLY EVEN SOUTH CAROLINA, NORTH CAROLINA, WERE A SMALL SHIFT OF VOTES COULD POSSIBLY COST REPUBLICANS THOSE SEATS.

SO I THINK THE SENATE IS MORE PROBLEMATIC AND I THINK THE GOAL IS THAT THAT IS WHERE THE JUDGES ARE APPROVED AND MOST OF THE FOCUS IS GOING TO BE SO PEOPLE WILL BE LOOKING AT THE SENATE AS A REAL POSSIBILITY WERE SUBURBAN WOMEN CAN VOTE FOR THE CONGRESSWOMAN AS REPUBLICAN, BUT THEIR SENATORS, DEMOCRAT HONESTY IN ON THIS ISSUE.

I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE QUITE AS HOT BUTTON AS IT WAS IN '89, '90, TROPHY 92, BECAUSE THERE'S TOO MANY OTHER ISSUES THAT HAVE BUBBLED UP.

THINGS WERE RELATIVELY CALM BACK THEN.

THE ECONOMY HADN'T GONE BAD.

AND SO, ISSUES LIKE ABORTION WERE MUCH MORE PROBLEMATIC.

BUT THERE IS ENOUGH CONCERN FOR SOME OF THE SENATE RACES, I THINK.

>> BONNIE: ABOUT EIGHT MONTHS AGO OR SOMETHING, WHEN YOU ARE ON THIS PROGRAM, ISP WITH YOUNG PEOPLE OF COLOR WERE GOING TO GET OUT TO VOTE.

AND YOU SAID NO.

IT WAS IN REFERENCE TO BIDEN HAVING WON THE ELECTION.

AND YOU SAID, WELL, WHY SHOULD WE, OR SOMETHING TO THIS EFFECT, WHY SHOULD WE?

BIDEN HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING FOR US.

HAS THAT CHANGED?

>> DANIELLE MOODIE: NO.

HAVE YOU NOTICED ANYTHING THAT BIDEN HAS DONE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE OF COLOR THAT CAME OUT IN MASS DURING THE HEIGHT OF THE PANDEMIC BEFORE WE HAD VACCINATIONS DEVOTED HISTORIC LEVELS?

NO, HE SUFFERED NOTHING, RIGHT?

AND AGAIN, ONCE AGAIN MATERIAL ON THIS ISSUE WHICH I DO THINK IS GOING TO BE IMPORTANT BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT THE ECONOMY AND DON'T TALK ABOUT WOMEN'S ABILITY TO BE IN THE WORKPLACE.

LIKE, HOW THOSE THINGS ARE TWO SEPARATE SILOS CONVERSATIONS?

THEY ARE NOT, THEY ARE ONE IN THE SAME.

SO IF YOU WANT THE COUNTRY TO SUCCEED, IF YOU WANT US TO BE GLOBALLY COMPETITIVE, THEN YOU MAY WANT TO ENSURE THAT MORE THAN HALF OF THE POPULATION HAS ACCESS TO BEING INSIDE OF THE WORKPLACE AND HAS THE SUPPORT TO DO SO.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE SOULFUL BACK-AND-FORTH THAT WE CONTINUE TO DO IS, THE REALITY IS, WE ARE DEADLOCKED WITH, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, MODERATE TO FUNCTION LIKE REPUBLICANS RATHER THAN THE PROGRESSIVE MAJORITY WHO BELIEVES THAT WE NEED RIGHTS AND PROTECTIONS, AND I'D LIKE FOR THIS PRESIDENT TO ACT LIKE HE'S ACTUALLY PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> Bonnie: ALL RIGHT.ROM ABORTION RIGHTS TO GOING BACK TO THE OFFICE: COMPANIES SUCH AS GOLDMAN SACHS ARE FACING UNEXPECTED NUMBERS OF EMPLOYEES REJECTING NEW IN-PERSON WORK MANDATES.

THE BANK CALLED ALL EMPLOYEES BACK TO THE OFFICE IN MARCH, BUT ONLY ABOUT HALF SHOWED UP.

AND IT REMAINS THAT WAY.

80 PERCENT OF THEIR EMPLOYEES WORKED IN THE OFFICE FULL-TIME BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

WITH MORE PRESSURE ON EMPLOYEES TO RETURN TO IN-PERSON WORK, WE ARE SEEING MILLENNIAL AND GEN Z WOMEN INSISTING ON WORKING FROM HOME, GOING HYBRID, OR FINDING NEW JOBS THAT LET THEM DO SO.

NOT SO FOR THE MEN, AND IT'S NO SURPRISE.

A NEW SURVEY FROM FLEX JOBS SHOWS 60 PERCENT OF WOMEN VERSUS 48 PERCENT OF MEN PREFER TO WORK REMOTELY.

THIS COULD COST GOLDMAN SACHS ITS GOAL OF REACHING GENDER DIVERSITY IN THE UPPER ECHELONS OF THE COMPANY SOON.

MOST WOMEN DON'T HAVE THE LUXURY OF WORKING FROM HOME.

POORER WOMEN TEND TO HOLD SUCH JOBS AS RESTAURANT OR FACTORY WORK, DOMESTIC WORK, AND OTHER POSITIONS THAT REQUIRE ON-SITE WORK.

SO MY QUESTION TO YOU, TIANA LOWE, HOW CAN LOW INCOME WOMEN -- I MEAN, IF YOUR JOB IS TO BE OTHER CHECKING PEOPLE OUT OF WALMART AT A CASHIER, THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE A JOB YOU CAN DO FROM HOME.

WHICH SHOULD THESE WOMEN DO TO GET THE RIGHT TO WORK FROM HOME AFTER THE PANDEMIC IS OVER?

>> Tiana Lowe: OBVIOUSLY, IT'S DIFFICULT BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH IT'S NOT AS THOUGH GOLDMAN IS UNIONIZED.

THERE IS A CERTAIN LEVEL WHERE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE THESE MANDATES FOR ESG, WHEN YOU HAVE THESE MANDATES FOR, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A FEMINIST INCLUSIVE WORKPLACE, THEY CAN'T JUST ACT FOR FEMALE STAFF.

AND I THINK A LOT OF THE REASON WHY WOMEN IN PARTICULAR ARE ATTRACTED TO THE WORK FROM HOME MODEL IS BECAUSE THE PANDEMIC SHOWED THAT TEACHERS UNIONS DO NOT VIEW THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM AS ESSENTIAL IN THE SAME WAY THAT HOSPITALS AND POLICE DEPARTMENTS VIEW THEIR EMPLOYERS AS ESSENTIAL.

AND WE KNOW THAT SCHOOLS ARE ESSENTIAL AND WE KNOW THAT KIDS GOING TO SCHOOL AND MOTHERS HAVING CHILDCARE IS ESSENTIAL.

SO FOR POOR WOMEN AND WOMEN IN SMALLER WORKPLACES, IT IS DIFFICULT BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF -- FOR SOME OF THIS, LET'S GRANT LIKE A LITTLE BIT OF BENEVOLENCE TO THESE EMPLOYERS, THEY DON'T HAVE THE TYPE OF OVERHEAD THAT GOLDMAN DOES HAVE AN ALL-DIGITAL SYSTEM.

SOME OF THESE JOBS JUST REQUIRE BEING IN PERSON.

BUT A LOT OF THIS SITUATION WILL JUST HAVE TO HAPPEN BY NECESSITY, ESPECIALLY IN THESE ESPECIALLY MORE URBAN AREAS, MORE DENSELY POPULATED AREAS, WHERE ALL THE AFFECTS OF THE PANDEMIC AND THE RELATED INCREASE IN CRIME HAVE REALLY TAKEN A TOLL.

SO A LOT OF IT WILL WIND UP BEING ON THE CITY INFRASTRUCTURE TO COME BACK TO NORMAL, TO BRING BACK UP THE POLICING THAT MAKES THESE AREAS SAFE.

FOR ALL THE ASSOCIATED BUSINESSES IN DOWNTOWN DISTRICTS TO COME BACK.

IT JUST HAS TO BE A COMMUNITYWIDE INITIATIVE, AND THAT'S NOT A VERY PLEASING ANSWER.

BUT SOME OF THESE BUSINESSES JUST CAN'T DO IT ALONE.

>> BONNIE: WELCOME A IT'S A LONG-TERM ANSWER.

IT'S NOT IT'S NOT ONE THAT'S GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM NOW.

DANIELLE, YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT WHAT QUARTER WOMEN CAN DO OR LOW INCOME WOMEN CAN DO TO TRY TO WORK REMOTELY.

I MEAN, I SUPPOSE IN REALITY, I SHOULD CASHIER JOB COULD BE DONE REMOTELY.

I'M NOT, I'M NOT SURE.

THERE'S GOT TO BE SOME GENIUS WHO COULD FIGURE OUT A WAY TO HAVE THE CASH, THE CASH MACHINE BE THE WOMAN'S LAPTOP AT HOME.

IT'S PROBABLY DECADES AWAY.

SO YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> Danielle Moodie: I MEAN, I THINK THAT THE REALITY IS THAT THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING BE SOME JOBS THAT ARE NOT ABLE TO BE REMOTE.

BUT IT'S LIKE, WHAT SUPPORTS AND SYSTEMS ARE YOU PUTTING IN PLACE AS AN EMPLOYER TO ENSURE THAT WOMEN WHO ARE ALSO THE PRIMARY CARETAKERS FOR THEIR CHILDREN HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO SO?

BUT I MEAN, BEING A CASHIER OR WORKING IN RETAIL MALL FOR INSTANCE, THAT IS IN STORE, YOU KNOW, BRICK-AND-MORTAR RETAIL, THIS IS SOMETHING YOU ARE GOING TO DO REMOTELY.

BUT IT'S, YOU KNOW, IS YOUR JOB PROVIDING CHILDCARE CREDIT?

IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COME TO PASS, YOU KNOW, AN EXTENDED CHILD TAX CARE CREDIT?

WHAT ARE THE SYSTEMS WE ARE PUTTING IN PLACE SO THAT WORKING, YOU KNOW, CONTINUING TO WORK AS AN OPTION?

YOU HAVE 2 1/2 MILLION WOMEN WHO LEFT THE WORKFORCE BETWEEN 2020 AND 2022 BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE THE SUPPORTS IN PLACE TO BE ABLE TO BOTH HOMESCHOOL THEIR CHILDREN AND DO THEIR AT HOME JOB, RIGHT?

BECAUSE WE RECOGNIZE THAT THEN AND THAT, YOU KNOW, VERY OBVIOUS AREA THAT WOMEN DO MULTIPLE JOBS, RIGHT?

LIKE THEY ARE NOT JUST RESPONSIBLE FOR WAS HAPPENING AT WORK.

THEY ARE ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT'S HAPPENING AT HOME.

SO HOW ARE WE CREATING SYSTEMS TO SUPPORT WOMEN STAYING IN THE WORKFORCE, IS THE BETTER QUESTION.

>> Bonnie: LET ME ASK YOU THIS, DANIELLE.

WE ARE AT THIS STRANGE MOMENT IN TIME.

I CAN'T REMEMBER ANYTHING LIKE THIS DURING MY LIFETIME WHERE THEY ARE MORE JOBS OPEN THAN THERE ARE PEOPLE WANTING TO FILL THEM.

SO DOES THIS GIVE LOW INCOME PEOPLE, WOMEN AND MEN, MORE ABILITY TO MAKE DEMANDS ABOUT BENEFITS?

>> Danielle Moodie: YEAH, I THINK WORKERS IN A REALLY GOOD POSITION RIGHT NOW, WHETHER YOU ARE IN A LOW SKILLED JOB OR A HIGH SCHOOL JOB.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY THE LIE THAT WE TOLD PEOPLE, IF YOU ARE AN OFFICE WORKER, IS THAT YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY DO THAT JOB REMOTELY, THAT YOU NEEDED TO BE IN YOUR CUBICLE, THAT YOU NEEDED TO BE IN YOUR OFFICE.

AND HE REALIZED THAT INDUSTRIES HAVE NOT COMPLETELY COLLAPSED WITH REMOTE WORK.

SO THERE IS THAT ISSUE.

BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, THERE IS, YES, MORE JOB OPENINGS BECAUSE WE ALSO HAVE TO UNDERSTAND PEOPLE WANT MORE.

THEY WANT A BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE, RIGHT?

AND THAT IS SOMETHING, IN AN ODD WAY, THE PRIVILEGE NONESSENTIAL FOLKS WERE ABLE TO GET DURING COVID.

I'M ABLE TO TAKE MEETINGS WHILE WALKING AND TAKING CARE OF MY BABY AND GOING TO THE GROCERY STORE AND, YOU KNOW, MAKE DINNER, RIGHT?

SO HOW IS YOUR EMPLOYER PROVIDING THAT NIMBLENESS AND FLEXIBILITY I THINK IS THE QUESTION.

>> Bonnie: AND MY QUESTION IS, WHY ISN'T YOUR PARTNER SHARING THESE DUTIES WITH YOU?

[LAUGHTER] >> Danielle Moodie: RIGHT.

>> Bonnie: THAT WOULD MAKE -- IT SO MUCH EASIER AND MAYBE SOMEDAY CARE WOULD NOT BE NEEDED.

BUT NOT THE AMOUNT THAT PEOPLE SAY IS NEEDED NOW.

DONNA.> Rep. Donna Edwards: FOR SOME WORKERS, THE FLEXIBILITY THAT THEY HAVE WORKING REMOTELY IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND IT IS PART OF THE REASON THAT, YOU KNOW, MORE WOMEN THAN MEN WANT TO BE IN A FLEXIBLE, REMOTE WORKPLACE.

BUT THE REALITY IS THAT FOR FRONTLINE WORKERS, FOR SO MANY IN THE SERVICE INDUSTRY, MANY OF WHOM ARE WOMEN, OR WOMEN OF COLOR, THEY DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF FLEXIBILITY.

AND I CAN'T SEE AN ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH THAT WILL BE TRUE.

AND SO, AND I THINK IT DOES GO TO THE QUESTION, THE IDEAS THAT DANIELLE JUST PUT FORWARD OF, HOW MUCH CHILDCARE ARE YOU PROVIDING AND WHAT KIND OF CHILDCARE AND FLEXIBILITY IN CHILDCARE?

WHAT ABOUT TRANSPORTATION TO AND FROM THE OFFICE?

WHAT ABOUT WAGES?

I THINK IT IS THE REASON THAT WE ARE SEEING A RESURGENCE OF LABOR ORGANIZING IN THE SERVICE INDUSTRY, WHICH I THINK IS A GOOD THING, BECAUSE WHEN ORGANIZED -- WHEN WORKERS ORGANIZE COMMITTEE CAN PLACE MORE DEMANDS COLLECTIVELY ON EMPLOYERS WHICH I THINK IS REALLY IMPORTANT IN THIS ENVIRONMENT.

AND THEN WE HAVEN'T BROUGHT INTO THE QUESTION OF HOW MUCH DO WE NEED AN IMMIGRATION POLICY THAT FILLS OUR WORKFORCE FOR ALL OF THOSE JOBS THAT ARE -- THAT ARE IN DEMAND RIGHT NOW.

BUT I THINK THAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE A COMPLETE CHANGE IN THE WORKFORCE.

WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT CHANGE IS GOOD FOR WOMEN WHO ARE COLLEGE-EDUCATED BUT ALSO THAT THAT CHANGE IS REFLECTED IN WHAT'S GOOD FOR WOMEN WHO ARE OUR FRONT-LINE WORKERS, WHO ARE AT THE LOWEST END OF OUR INCOME RATES.

>> Bonnie: OKAY.

ANN, YOUR THOUGHTS MEAN, WE DO HAVE A SORT OF SURGING ECONOMY IN A WAY, OBVIOUSLY.

WE HAVE HIGH INFLATION, BUT WE HAVE MORE JOBS, NOT MORE JOBS THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE TO FILL, BUT MORE JOBS THAN THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO GO TO WORK.

>> Ann Stone: YEAH, I'M GLAD YOU MADE THE DISTINCTION, BECAUSE THE PROBLEM WAS SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE DROPPED OUT OF THE WORKPLACE AND IT'S HOW YOU GET THEM BACK.

BUT I ECHO A LOT OF THE POINTS THAT WERE MADE EARLIER THAT I THINK ARE GOOD.

EMPLOYEES ARE IN A STRONGER POSITION BECAUSE THERE IS SUCH A DESPERATE NEED.

YOU KNOW, I CAN TELL YOU HOW MANY RESTAURANTS HAVE BEEN TO ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY WHERE THEY HAVE TO CLOSE DOWN EARLY BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE TO COME IN.

AND MORE GROCERY STORES AND RETAIL OUTFITS HAVE, YOU KNOW, THESE SCAN CHECKOUTS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE PEOPLE TO DO THE CHECKOUTS.

SO A LOT OF THAT AUTOMATION IS COMING IN AND IS GOING TO REPLACE SOME OF THOSE JOBS PROBABLY PERMANENTLY.

BUT THAT SHOULD GET US AN OPPORTUNITY TO RETRAIN A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE, BECAUSE, FRANKLY, I'VE SAID THIS BEFORE, IF WOMEN WERE NOT IN THIS ECONOMY, WOULD HAVE TO BE, BECAUSE THE INFORMATION ECONOMY ACTUALLY PLAYS BEST WITH WOMEN'S SKILLS.

AND IT'S JUST A MATTER OF GETTING THEM A LITTLE BIT OF EXTRA TRAINING.

BUT WE ARE VERY NATURAL IN THIS ECONOMY.

WOMEN WERE THE ORIGINAL PROGRAMMERS, AS WE KNOW FROM, YOU KNOW, HIDDEN FIGURES IN ALL OF THAT.

THERE'S OTHER THINGS WE'VE BEEN DOING ALL ALONG THAT PEOPLE DID NOT KNOW ABOUTOMEN CAN BE RETRAINED, WHETHER THEY ARE LOW-INCOME OR NOT, TO TAKE ON MUCH MORE CHALLENGING JOBS, AND WE NEED THEM.

WOMEN ARE NEEDED IN THIS ECONOMY, AND EMPLOYERS THAT ARE SMART ARE GOING TO PUT THINGS IN PLACE TO TAKE CARE OF CHILDCARE CONCERNS AND GET THE WOMEN THE TRAINING TO MAKE THEM MORE PRODUCTIVE.

>> Bonnie: OKAY.

DANIELLE, YOU TALKED ABOUT FEDERALLY SUBSIDIZED CHILDCARE.

THERE ACTUALLY IS SOME -- A COUPLE OF STATES LIKE CALIFORNIA ALREADY HAVE STATE PROGRAMS THAT USE UNUSED UNEMPLOYMENT FUNDS TO PAY FOR CHILD CARE.

WHAT'S THE NEXT THING THAT WE MAY NEED AFTER THAT GO BACK TO WORK?

>> Danielle Moodie: I THINK THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE THIS UNDERSTANDING THAT IF WE WANT A STRONG COUNTRY, THAT THAT COMES FROM A STRONG ECONOMY AND IT COMES FROM THE ABILITY OF EVERYBODY TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE FULLY IN IT.

AND WE'VE NEVER CREATED THE CONDITIONS AND THE SYSTEMS FOR WOMEN TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE FULLY.

RIGHT?

LIKE, YOU KNOW, YES, WE HAVE MORE DEGREES AND, YES, WE HAVE ALL OF THE SCHOOLING THAT'S IN PLACE, BUT WE DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE THE SUPPORT OF WHAT IT MEANS TO HAVE BUT THE FAMILY, RIGHT, IF YOU SO CHOOSE TO HAVE A FAMILY AND BE ABLE TO WORK.

SO IT IS CHILDCARE, IT IS THE RECOGNITION OF, QUOTE/UNQUOTE, SOFT SKILLS THAT ARE IN THE WORKPLACE THAT OFTEN FALLEN WOMEN TO DO THAT MEN ARE NOT -- THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO, RIGHT?

IT'S NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THEM.

SO THERE WAS THAT WOMEN ARE CONTINUALLY HELD BACK BECAUSE WE DON'T SEE THEM AS ESSENTIAL TO THE PRODUCTIVITY OF THE COUNTRY.

>> Bonnie: HERE'S WHERE I DIFFER WITH YOU: MEN HAVE TO DO IT.

THEY SHOULD BE DOING HALF OF IT.

>> Danielle Moodie: BUT THEY ARE NOT REQUIRED TO.

>> Bonnie: A WOMAN SHOULD NOT HAVE A CHILD WITH SOMEBODY, MAN OR ANOTHER WOMAN, OR ANOTHER WOMAN WHO DOESN'T AGREE TO DO HALF THE CHILDCAREHAT WOULDN'T FIX EVERYTHING, BUT IT WOULD MAKE THEIR LIVES MUCH, MUCH EASIER IF THEY ARE TWO PEOPLE SPLITTING THAT WORK.

WHY IS IT THAT?

>> Danielle Moodie: BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE SOCIETAL EXPECTATION OF MEN TO DO WHAT IT IS THAT YOU JUST SAIDO IN HETERONORMATIVE RELATIONSHIPS, WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE SOCIETY HAS EXPECTATION THAT WOMEN ARE STILL CARETAKERS, RIGHT?

AND THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

SO YOU ARE NOT GOING TO THINK ABOUT THE SUPPORTS AND SYSTEMS THAT NEED TO BE IN PLACE TO HAVE PEOPLE BE ABLE TO EQUALLY HAVE A PARTNERSHIP AND PARTICIPATE WHEN ONE IS EXPECTED TO DO THESE THINGS AND NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT IT.

>> Tiana Lowe: HOW IS THIS NOT LIKE -- THE ONUS IS ON US INDIVIDUALLY TO AN EXTENT, RIGHT, TO DEMAND THE BARE MINIMUM OF WHAT WE EXPECTED OF A RELATIONSHIP, AND THAT INVOLVES BEING VERY CLEAR ABOUT, YOU KNOW, DIVISION OF LABOR BY PARTS.

I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE I AM JUST SECRETLY THE WOKE CONSERVATIVE ONE FOR EXPECTING MY PARTNERS TO DO MORE.

BUT, NO, THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PART ABOUT SPEAKING ABOUT FOR YOURSELF.

>> Rep. Donna Edwards: NO, BUT I MEAN, IT CAN'T BE -- IT'S NOT ABOUT INDIVIDUALS.

I THINK IT IS ABOUT CHANGING SOCIETAL NORMS.

BUT IN THE ABSENCE OF BEING ABLE TO DO THAT, YOU HAVE TO CREATE THE NORMATIVE SYSTEMS WITHIN THE LEGISLATIVE AND OTHER STRUCTURES, POLICY STRUCTURES THAT MAKE UP FOR THAT, BECAUSE WE COULD BE WAITING UNTIL, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING FREEZES OVER BEFORE THE SOCIETAL NORMS CHANGE.

WE SHOULD NOT BE WAITING TO INSTITUTE POLICY REFORMS THAT ARE GOING TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR WOMEN TO PARTICIPATE AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL THAT THEY WANT TO IN THE ECONOMY.

>> Bonnie: THAT'S IT FOR THIS EDITION.

LET'S KEEP TALKING ON TWITTER, FACEBOOK, AND INSTAGRAM, AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK "TO THE CONTRARY", SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

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