♪♪ >> "ALMANAC: AT THE CAPITOL" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> Mary: ENERGY'S ON OUR MINDS WITH THE WAR AND OIL AND GAS PRICES RISING.

WE'LL TALK WITH THE LEADING LAWMAKERS ON THE ISSUE OF ENERGY.

THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC: AT THE CAPITOL."

♪♪ >> "ALMANAC AT THE CAPITOL" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... MANITOBA HYDRO, PROVIDING CLEAN, RENEWABLE ENERGY TO MINNESOTA UTILITIES FOR MORE THAN 50 YEARS.

MANITOBAHYDROPOWER.COM.

FLINT HILLS RESOURCES, A LEADING PRODUCER OF THE FUELS MINNESOTANS RELY ON EVERY DAY.

MINNESOTA LOTTERY, SUPPORTING PROJECTS THAT PROTECT MINNESOTA'S ENVIRONMENT AND NATURAL RESOURCES.

GREAT RIVER ENERGY, PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 1.7 MILLION PEOPLE THROUGH ITS MEMBER-OWNER COOPERATIVES AND CUSTOMERS.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY, A SOVEREIGN TRIBAL NATION IN SCOTT COUNTY.

MORE AT SHAKOPEEDAKOTA.ORG.

AND THE IRON MINING ASSOCIATION OF MINNESOTA, EDUCATING MINNESOTANS ON THE IRON ORE INDUSTRY AND ITS ROLE FOR AMERICAN STEEL.

>> Mary: WELCOME TO "ALMANAC: AT THE CAPITOL," I'M MARY LAHAMMER, COMING TO YOU LIVE FROM THE HOUSE GALLERY, AND WE HAVE SENATORS HERE TO TALK ENERGY ISSUES, AS NO STATE HAS BEEN SPARED FROM THE RISING GAS AND OIL PRICES.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT.

BUT, FIRST, THE LATEST ON LEGISLATIVE PLANS TO ADDRESS FRAUD, EDUCATION REFORM, AND THE GOVERNOR'S REVISED BUDGET.

ALONGSIDE A DAY CARE CLASSROOM, GOVERNOR WALZ ANNOUNCED A REVISED BUDGET HE SAYS WILL LOWER COSTS FOR FAMILIES GOING FORWARD.

>> WHETHER IT BE THE CLIMATE CHANGE ISSUE OR THINGS THAT YOU THINK YOU'RE GONNA KICK DOWN THE ROAD, THIS TRANSITION TO AN AI ECONOMY, WE'RE POSITIONED WELL, MINNESOTA'S A DIVERSE ECONOMY READY TO GO, BUT IF WE DON'T MAKE A CONSCIOUS EFFORT, WE'RE GOING TO FALL BEHIND.

>> THE LARGEST, BY FAR, CHILD DEPENDENT CARE CREDIT IN THE NATION.

AND IT IS GOING TO SAVE MIDDLE-CLASS FAMILIES THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS EVERY YEAR.

>> Mary: SENATE REPUBLICANS REVEALED EDUCATION INITIATIVES AND REACTED TO THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET.

>> A LOT OF HOSE ARE DRUMMED UP IDEAS FROM THE PAST, NOT ORIGINAL ATTEMPTS AT TRYING TO REALLY FIGURE OUT WAYS THAT WE CAN BE HELPING OUT MINNESOTANS.

HE'S BEEN -- THESE HAVE FAILED IN THE PAST, THEY DON'T HAVE REPUBLICAN SUPPORT, QUITE FRANKLY, I DON'T THINK HE HAS THE FULL SUPPORT OF THE DEMOCRATS AS WELL EITHER.

>> SCHOOL SAFETY ISN'T A REPUBLICAN OR A DEMOCRAT ISSUE.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT EVERY MINNESOTAN CARES ABOUT.

AND THIS BILL HAS BIPARTISAN SUPPORT IN THE SENATE.

>> REQUIRES SCHOOLS TO NOTIFY PARENTS AND TEACHERS WITHIN 24 HOURS OF A VIOLENT INCIDENT ON SCHOOL GROUNDS, INCLUDING DETAILS ON INJURIES OR WEAPONS INVOLVED.

>> EVEN THOUGH DURING A DEMOCRAT TRIFECTA, THEY BRAGGED ABOUT RECORD SCHOOL FUNDING, AN EXTRA $2.2 BILLION INTO EDUCATION, VIRTUALLY EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT AROUND THE STATE CAME BACK AFTERWARDS, SAYING, WE'RE IN THE RED.

ALL THE NEW MANDATES THAT WERE ADDED ATE UP ALL THE NEW FUNDING.

>> IT ALLOWS THEM TO OPT OUT OF SPECIFIC NEW MANDATES PASSED IN '23 AND '24.

ALL WITH FULL TRANSPARENCY THROUGH PUBLIC SCHOOL BOARD DISCUSSIONS AND VOTES.

WE DO THIS NOT JUST BECAUSE LOCAL CONTROL IS A GOOD THING FOR LOCAL SCHOOLS, BUT BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT AFFORDABILITY CHALLENGES THAT MINNESOTANS ARE FACING.

>> Mary: SENATE DEMOCRATS ANNOUNCED THEIR PLAN TO TACKLE FRAUD.

>> IT IS INCUMBENT UPON US TO COMMIT TO THE VIGILANCE NECESSARY AND OVERSIGHT TO TAKE THE REPORTS R HAT WE GET FROM THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR, SIGNALS THAT WE'RE GETTING FROM INSIDE THE AGENCIES, AND EVENTUALLY WHAT WE GET FROM THE OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL ERIOUSLY.

>> WE CAN ALSO, FOR THE FIRST TIME, REIGN IN THE INFLUENCE OF THIRD-PARTY NTITIES THAT RECRUIT AND PROFIT OFF F PROVIDERS.

>> THIS IS NOT A LEFT OR A RIGHT ISSUE.

THIS IS A RIGHT OR A WRONG ISSUE.

>> WE NEED TO INVEST IN OUR TECHNOLOGY, IF WE CONSIDER THESE PROGRAMS IMPORTANT AND WE DO.

AND WE WANT TO FIGHT FRAUD.

AND WE DO.

>> WE NOW HAVE ALL FOUR CAUCUSES ON BOARD.

WE'VE GOT THE GOVERNOR ON BOARD.

EVERYBODY WANTS THE OIG.

>> Mary: A NEW BILL WOULD PROTECT PEOPLE'S LICENSE PLATE DATA AFTER IMMIGRATION AGENTS USED THE INFO AGAINST MINNESOTANS.

>> WE KNOW THAT WE FOUND THIS ISSUE BECAUSE OF OPERATION METRO SURGE, BUT THEN IT QUICKLY GREW INTO SOMETHING THAT WAS MUCH MUCH BIGGER AND BROADER AND WIDER THAN THAT AS TO A MASSIVE DATA PRIVACY BREACH.

>> ANY OF OUR DATA COULD BE COLLECTED BY THESE LICENSE PLATE READERS AND CAR REGISTRATIONS.

THEY'RE ONLY SUPPOSED TO E ACCESSED FOR AN ACTIVE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION.

>> THE AGENTS WERE DRIVING AROUND AIMLESSLY IN OUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

I WATCHED IN HORROR AS THE TWO VEHICLES DRIVEN BY FEDERAL AGENTS PULLED UP IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE.

AND SLOWED DOWN.

WE WATCHED AS AN AGENT USED A CAMERA THAT LOOKED VERY PROFESSIONAL TO TAKE MULTIPLE PHOTOGRAPHS OF MY HOME OUT THE WINDOW.

♪♪ >> Mary: AND NOW WE'RE GOING TO TALK ENERGY.

WE KNOW THIS STAT, GAS PRICES ARE UP 86 CENTS IN THE LAST MONTH, IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA, IT'S KIND OF AMONG THE HIGHER ONES IN THE NATION.

WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT IF RENEWABLES ARE HELPING OR NOT.

THESE ARE THE TWO PEOPLE THAT CAN ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS AND MANY MORE ON ENERGY.

WE HAVE DFL CHAIR NICK FRENTZ AND REPUBLICAN LEAD ANDREW MATHEWS.

SO, SENATOR FRENTZ, WHY ISN'T MINNESOTA DOING BETTER?

WHY ARE WE STILL AMONG THE BIGGERS INCREASES IN THE COUNTRY IF WE HAVE THESE REALLY AGGRESSIVE RENEWABLE ENERGY STANDARDS?

>> ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT GAS PRICES?

>> Mary: GAS PRICES, YEAH.

>> THE MAIN CHANGE IN GAS PRICES IS COMING FROM THE CONSTRICTION IN THE MIDDLE EAST, I HOPE IT'S TEMPORARY, I KNOW MINNESOTA DRIVERS HOPE IT'S TEMPORARY.

>> Mary: YEAH, WHAT ABOUT THE -- WHAT'S ABOUT MINNESOTA?

PEOPLE CARE ABOUT GAS PRICES, CONSUMERS FEEL IT.

>> YEAH, I WOULD AGREE.

THE PRICES HAVE BEEN GOING UP EVERYWHERE.

I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANYTHING TARGETING MINNESOTA.

I THINK WHAT WE COULD DO IS LOOK AT IF THIS DOES GO ON LONG, WHICH NO ONE HOPES IT DOES, WE SHOULD LOOK AT MAYBE A TEMPORARY GAS TAX HOLIDAY OR SOMETHING WE CAN CONTROL ON THE STATE END.

BUT, YEAH, PRICES ARE GOING BACK UP TO KIND OF HOW THEY WERE A FEW YEARS AGO AFTER HAVING SOME DECREASES IN THE LAST YEAR OR SO.

>> SO BACK TO THE RENEWABLE PART, DO WE GET RELIEF IN OTHER AREAS BECAUSE OF THE RENEWABLES IN THE STATE?

>> WE DO.

IN OUR COMMITTEE, WE'VE HAD SOME TESTIMONY ABOUT THE PRICE OF WIND AND SOLAR.

RIGHT NOW WIND AND SOLAR'S THE LOWEST COST IT HAS EVER BEEN AND IT'S VERY COMPETITIVE WITH OTHER FORMS OF ENERGY.

ONE OF THE THINGS SENATOR MATHEWS BRINGS TO THE COMMITTEE IS THE REMINDER THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE BASE LOAD ENERGY AS WELL.

SO WHERE WE ARE IN MINNESOTA TODAY, WE NEED BOTH BASE LOAD AND INTERMITTENT.

I THINK ONE OF THE AREAS WE'LL SEE IMPROVEMENT IN THE FUTURE IS IN BATTERY STORAGE.

I'M A BIG BELIEVER IN AMERICAN INNOVATION, AND I THINK AMERICANS ARE GOING TO SEE IMPROVEMENT IN THE ABILITY TO STORE IT, WHICH WILL HELP LOWER COSTS WITH THOSE INTERMITTENT RESOURCES.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT THAT IS BIPARTISAN?

WHAT DO YOU LIKE?

>> WELL, I'M OPEN TO ALL TECHNOLOGIES.

BUT RENEWABLES ARE VERY WEATHER DEPENDENT AND THEY HAVE A MUCH SHORTER LIFE SPAN.

AND THEY -- THEY'RE OFTEN CHEAPER BECAUSE A LOT OF FEDERAL SUBSIDIES THAT CAME IN ON THE FRONT END.

SO WE AVE TO KEEP THAT IN MIND WITH THE GROWTH OF RENEWABLES, THERE'S A LIMIT AT THIS POINT TO WHAT WE CAN DO WITHOUT IT BEING TOO FAR ON WEATHER DEPENDENT RESOURCES.

AND THAT'S WHY EVEN ON DAYS STILL TODAY, RIGHT NOW WE'RE STILL POWERED BY ABOUT 70 TO 75% BETWEEN GAS, COAL, AND NUCLEAR AS OUR FIRM BASE LOAD ENERGY.

>> Mary: AND THAT FEDERAL SUPPORT IS DIMINISHING OR GONE, WHERE ARE WE AT WITH THAT?

>> WELL, WE'RE GOING TO SEE SOME OF THE SUBSIDIES GONE AT THE END OF THE YEAR.

WE ARE ALSO TALKING ABOUT THE WAY THE STATES CHOOSE TO SENT ADVISE IT.

I'M IN AGREEMENT THAT ONCE A TECHNOLOGY'S ESTABLISHED THEN THERE'S LESS OF A REASON FOR GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES.

INCENTIVIZE.

SO, FOR EXAMPLE, SOLAR PANELS ARE NOW DOWN ABOUT 90% FROM WHERE THEY WERE 'IN THE EARLY 2010s.

THAT'S A GOOD THING.

I NO LONGER FEEL THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE THE SAME TYPE OF GOVERNMENT SUPPORT FOR THAT PARTICULAR ENERGY.

I STILL LIKE OIL AND GAS EXPLORATION.

THEY STILL GET A EDUCTION FOR THAT.

HOPEFULLY WE'LL PHASE THAT OUT.

OF COURSE, NOW HERE'S MORE OF AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE COST OF CLIMATE CHANGE, INCLUDING THE STUDY THAT CAME OUT THIS WEEK THAT SUGGESTED MINNESOTA'S GOING TO PAY $20 BILLION A YEAR FOR CLIMATE-RELATED COSTS.

SO STAY TUNED.

>> Mary: I DON'T THINK YOU WERE PEEKING AT MY NOTES, BUT THAT WAS IN MY OTES ABOUT THE STUDY THAT CAME OUT.

WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT THE CLIMATE CHANGE SAYING, 20 BILLION, THAT'S JUST FOR MINNESOTA, IF IT DOESN'T GET ADDRESSED.

>> YEAH, SENATOR FRENTZ MENTIONED IT IN COMMITTEE.

I HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET HERE.

YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF WIDE VIEWS ON IT.

AND STILL A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE DISAGREEMENTS OVER IT.

WITH HOW IT'S APPLIED AS TO HOW MUCH DOES IT JUSTIFY MORE REGULATION AND MORE COSTS ON MINNESOTANS.

AND THAT'S WHERE I THINK A LOT OF THE DISAGREEMENT COMES IN.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT HERE FOR THE MAN-MADE VERSUS WHATEVER DEBATE, BUT WHEN IT'S JUSTIFIED AS WHY WE'RE GOING TO SE MORE REGULATION OR MORE TAXES, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T RAISE OUR TAXES TO FIX THE WEATHER.

THAT'S JUST NOT RESPONSIBLE GOVERNANCE.

SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE TRY TO PUSH BACK ON AND HAVE OUR COMMITTEE LOOK AT.

>> Mary: LET'S DRILL DOWN ON SOME OF THOSE COSTS BECAUSE ILLNESS WAS ONE OF THEM.

AND WE HAVE SEEN, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THOSE WILDFIRES THAT MINNESOTA HAD SOME OF THE WORST AIR QUALITY ANYWHERE THROUGH THAT.

SO THAT SEEMS LIKE A REAL COST.

DOES IT SEEM REAL TO THE TWO OF YOU?

>> I THINK IT IS.

WE'VE AD A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE COST OF HEALTHCARE GOING BACK TO WHEN WE STARTED ARGUING ABOUT HOW MUCH DOES IT COST THAT AMERICANS SMOKE CIGARETTES.

THERE'S LUNG CANCER, THERE'S HEALTH COSTS.

HOW MUCH?

I THINK IT'S A EASONABLE DEBATE.

BUT THERE'S NOT MUCH DEBATE THAT THERE IS A COST.

AND FOR CLIMATE CHANGE, YOU MENTIONED WILDFIRES, SAME THING, I THINK IT'S CLEAR THERE IS A COST.

WE HAVE STORMS NOW THAT ARE $50 BILLION, ONE STORM.

THOSE GO RIGHT TO INSURANCE R COSTS, INSURANCE COSTS COME RIGHT BACK TO PEOPLE AND PREMIUMS.

SO, WHILE WE MAY NOT AGREE ON THE AMOUNT EXACTLY, I THINK IT'S CLEAR THERE'S DOCUMENTATION THAT T'S A COST.

>> Mary: NSURANCE COSTS IS A REAL DATA POINT.

DO YOU AGREE THAT WE ARE SEEING AN INCREASE IN, YOU KNOW, CROP ISSUES, HEALTH ISSUES, SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS?

>> YEAH.

THERE'S AN INCREASE.

AND, YES, THE WILDFIRES HAVE KIND OF RUINED BOTH OF OUR LAST TWO SUMMERS THAT WE'VE HAD.

AND SOME OF IT IS POINTED BACK TO JUST POOR MANAGEMENT THAT HAVE LED TO THESE MORE WILD AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN PRONE TO GET FIRES LIKE THIS.

WE SAW THIS IN CALIFORNIA AND IN CANADA AND OTHER PLACES LIKE THAT.

SO FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO DO THE PROPER MANAGEMENT THAT WE NEED TO DO, AND THERE'S A LOT MORE THAT WE CAN CONTROL THAN WHAT SOME LIKE TO ADMIT.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT AGRICULTURAL IMPACTS, WE'RE SEEING THAT FROM LONGTIME FARMERS SAYING THEY ARE SEEING MORE EXTREME WEATHER, AND THAT'S A COST.

>> THAT'S ABSOLUTELY A FACTOR THAT WE HAVE TO WORK WITH AND ADAPT.

YEAH, IT'S ABSOLUTELY SOMETHING WE'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR.

>> Mary: HOW ABOUT DATA CENTERS, HAT'S THE OTHER BIG ISSUE THAT IS COMING FAST AND FURIOUS, AND BIPARTISAN CONCERN IN BOTH CHAMBERS.

HOW MUCH OF A DRAG IS THAT GOING TO BE ON ENERGY INFRASTRUCTURE?

>> I'M GLAD YOU ASKED BECAUSE YOU'RE SITTING WITH TWO SENATORS WHO FEEL THAT THE BILL THAT WAS PASSED ON DATA CENTERS LAST YEAR IS A RESPONSIBLE BALANCING.

WE HAVE TO HAVE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, WE HAVE TO CREATE A SPACE FOR PEOPLE THAT BUILD THESE PLACES, THE PROPERTY TAX IMPACTS ARE SIGNIFICANT, BUT WE HAVE MINNESOTANS WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE ENERGY USE AND ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT.

IN MY OPINION, THE BILL THAT CAME THROUGH MINNESOTA LAST YEAR WAS A GREAT BILL, WE'RE HEARING OTHER STATES, INCLUDING OHIO -- >> Mary: NOTHING MORE?

THERE'S OTHER NEW BILLS ON, YOU KNOW, RELEASING INFORMATION, ARE YOU OKAY WITH WHAT PASSED OR SHOULD WE HAVE SOMETHING NEW?

BIPARTISAN BILLS GOING THROUGH BOTH CHAMBERS.

>> IT WAS A BIPARTISAN BILL, BUT I WENT FROM AUTHORING ONE OF THE FIRST DATA CENTER BILLS TO VOTING AGAINST THAT PACKAGE AT THE END BECAUSE IT MISSED ON OME REALLY IMPORTANT REGULATORY REFORM PIECES THAT WERE NEEDED.

IN LAST YEAR'S BILL, THERE WERE A COUPLE PIECES THAT I AM GLAD THAT THEY GOT AND THAT WERE OOD, BUT THERE WERE A BUNCH OF OTHER PIECES THAT I THINK WERE A NET DETRIMENT AND I'M WORKING ON TRYING TO BRING MY BILL BACK AGAIN, SEE IF WE CAN BACK UP, WE'RE FINDING, LIKE, A SECONDING ANGLE TO TRY TO GO AT IT TO HELP ESPECIALLY SOME OF OUR HOST COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE RETIRING PLANTS THAT NEED TO LOOK AT NEW ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

>> Mary: REAL QUICK, HORTMAN, SOLAR GARDENS, PASSED THE HOUSE, SENATE NEXT?

>> YES.

>> Mary: EASY?

>> IF THERE'S OPPOSITION TO IT, I HAVE NOT HEARD IT.

>> Mary: ANY OPPOSITION?

>> NOT THAT I'M AWARE OF.

>> Mary: THANK YOU, SENATORS.

APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION.

>> THANK YOU, MARY.

>> Mary: YEAH.

♪♪ >> Mary: OUR NEXT RETIRING LAWMAKER HAS SERVED IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR 42 YEARS.

HERE'S A LOOK BACK AT THE CAREER OF TRAILBLAZING BONDING CHAIR, SENATE PRESIDENT, DFLer, SENATOR SANDY PAPPAS.

>> THIS IS ME.

I HAD LONG HAIR THEN.

STILL HAD BANGS.

ALTHOUGH I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT IN ONE OF OUR MUSICALS, I HAD THE ONLY NONSINGING ROLE.

I REALLY COULDN'T SING.

BUT I WAS THE STUDENT DIRECTOR.

I'M SENATOR SANDY PAPPAS, AND I REPRESENT DOWNTOWN St.

PAUL AND SURROUNDING NEIGHBORHOODS, AND I'VE BEEN IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR OVER THREE DECADES.

I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL AT ROBBINSDALE, ROBBINSDALE SENIOR HIGH.

BIG SECRET, SECRET, Y NAME WAS SANDRA SHUTEK.

I REALLY FELL IN LOVE WITH MY SPEECH AND THEATER CLASSES AND I ALSO HAD A HUMANITIES CLASS I REALLY IKED.

AND I THINK IT REALLY SET A TONE FOR ME TO BE INTERESTED IN, YOU KNOW, BROADER ISSUES BEYOND MY OWN COMMUNITY IN TERMS OF HUMANITIES AND THEN THEATER AND SPEECH.

VERY USEFUL FOR A POLITICIAN.

>> AND I THINK PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, DO LIKE TO THINK THAT THEY'RE FAIR TO EVERYONE, BUT, UNFORTUNATELY, MOST OF THE TIME AND HISTORICALLY, WHEN LEADERS HAVE SAID THAT I AM COLORBLIND, THE END RESULT HAS BEEN WHITE MEN ARE HIRED.

>> VOTERS DO WANT US TO GET SOME THINGS ACCOMPLISHED.

AND PERHAPS SAW THAT DIVIDED GOVERNMENT WASN'T THE WAY TO DO IT.

>> I'VE CERTAINLY LEARNED TO RESPECT THE MINORITY, HAVING SPENT THE LAST TWO YEARS IN THE MINORITY.

>> WILL THE MAJORITY LEADER YIELD?

>> I'VE ACTUALLY BEEN INTERESTED IN BEING SENATE PRESIDENT FOR A LONG TIME.

BUT I AM THE FIRST JEWISH WOMAN PRESIDENT.

>> SENATOR BAKK.

>> WHAT YOU SHOULD DO IS MAKE THE MINORITY SO HAPPY THAT THEY NEVER WANT TO BE THE MAJORITY.

>> THE SENATE PRESIDENT CAN'T WAIT TO HAVE SOME REAL WORK TO DO AS PRESIDING OFFICER OF THE CHAMBER, SHE'S CONCERNED ABOUT THE LOGISTICS OF FINISHING ON TIME.

>> I'M ESPECIALLY WORRIED ABOUT THE HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES BILL BECAUSE THAT'S, LIKE, 400, 500 PAGES, BUT AT LEAST WE DON'T HAVE EROX COPIES FOR ANYONE ANYMORE.

IT'S ALL ELECTRONIC.

>> THAT'S A LOT OF BUBBLE WRAP.

>> YES.

>> Mary: LAWMAKERS AND STAFFERS ARE ALREADY PACKING UP THEIR OFFICES, THEY KNOW REGARDLESS OF THE OUTCOME OF BUDGET TALKS, THEY HAVE TO MAKE WAY FOR MOVING CREWS WHO ARRIVE THE SECOND SESSION ENDS MIDNIGHT MONDAY.

THIS IS UNLIKE ANYTHING YOU'VE SEEN BEFORE.

>> IT IS.

AND I DON'T WANT TO HAVE BARE WALLS, HERE WE ARE THE LAST COUPLE WALLS, AND WE'RE FINALLY TAKING THINGS OFF THE WALL.

I DID NOTICE THE OTHER DAY, SHE PACKED UP MY FORKS SO I WASN'T ABLE TO HAVE LUNCH.

[ Laughter ] >> Mary: TRYING TO FIND A SUPER MAJORITY TO BORROW FOR A BONDING BILL FOR STATE CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS.

>> Mr.

CHAIRMAN.

Mr.

CHAIRMAN.

SENATOR DRAHEIM -- >> IN THIS BILL -- >> -- I FUNDED THOSE PROJECTS, I FUNDED THIS PROGRAM IN 669, THAT'S THE BILL THAT YOU REJECTED!

AND I RESENT YOU ACCUSING ME OF NOT FUNDING PROJECTS!

I WOULD LOVE TO FUND THOSE PROJECTS, BUT YOU GOTTA VOTE FOR THE DAMN BILL.

>> Mary: THE LOCAL HUMANE SOCIETY IS THE HEART-WRENCHING STOP IN THE FINAL STRETCH FOR SENATORS ON THE CAPITAL INVESTMENT COMMITTEE.

>> WE'VE REALLY COVERED THE STATE.

AND IT'S KIND OF SHOCKING THE INFRASTRUCTURE NEED THAT'S OUT THERE.

WE HAVE INFRASTRUCTURE SYSTEMS BUILT IN THE '60s, BUILT AFTER WORLD WAR II, THAT HAVE AGED OUT.

>> Mary: WITH US NOW, RETIRING DFL SENATOR SANDY PAPPAS.

HOW WAS THAT LITTLE TRIP DOWN MEMORY LANE?

>> THAT WAS REALLY FUN.

THANKS FOR SHOWING THAT, MARY.

>> Mary: OF ALL THE JOBS, HOUSE, SENATE, PRESIDENT, BONDING CHAIR, WHAT'S YOUR FAVORITE OF ALL OF THEM?

>> BONDING CHAIR.

>> Mary: REALLY?

WHY?

WHY IS IT?

>> WELL, BECAUSE I GET TO REALLY DO THINGS TO IMPROVE COMMUNITIES' LIVES AND PEOPLE'S LIVES WITH IT.

I GET TO SPEND A [BLEEP] OF MONEY AND IT'S JUST REALLY FUN TRAVELING AROUND THE STATE, YOU KNOW, SEEING WHAT THE ISSUES ARE AND THE PROBLEMS ARE AND, YOU KNOW, HANGING OUT WITH MY COLLEAGUES ON THE BUS FOR HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS.

>> Mary: I NEVER KNOW IF IT'S THE WORST JOB OR THE BEST JOB BECAUSE IS EVERYONE YOUR BEST FRIEND OR YOUR WORST ENEMY BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BUILD SUPERMAJORITY.

>> RIGHT.

>> Mary: AND EVERYBODY WANTS IN ON YOUR BILL.

>> YEAH.

YEAH.

IT'S TOUGH DECISIONS.

BECAUSE THE BILLS ARE ALWAYS LIMITED.

YOU KNOW, WE GOT $5 APPROXIMATELY OF -- $5 BILLION OF REQUESTS, AND WE'RE GOING TO DO A BILLION TWO IF WE'RE LUCKY.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE GET DISAPPOINTED.

>> Mary: IT'S THE LAST THING OUT AND BECAUSE IT'S THE LAST THING SOMETIMES IT FALLS THROUGH THE CRACKS.

>> I KNOW, I HATE THAT.

LAST YEAR T DIDN'T MAKE MAKE IT, WE HAD A SPECIAL SESSION, AND WE PASSED IT THEN, BUT I DON'T LIKE BEING THE LAST BILL, I'D RATHER HAVE IT BE EARLY.

>> Mary: YOU DON'T MINCE WORDS.

THERE ARE SO EW PEOPLE LEFT WHO ARE JUST STRAIGHT SHOOTERS.

WHAT IS IT?

DO YOU THINK YOU WERE ALWAYS THAT WAY?

OR AS THE YEARS GOT ON, YOU'RE JUST, LIKE, WHY BEAT AROUND THE BUSH?

>> YEAH.

I THINK I'VE ALWAYS BEEN A LOT MORE CAUTIOUS ABOUT WHAT I'VE SAID.

I MEAN, YOU JUST LEARN THAT AS A LEGISLATOR BECAUSE I STARTED OUT AS THAT KIND OF RADICAL FEMINIST FROM St.

PAUL, AND I HAD TO LEARN HOW TO HOLD BACK MY DRAMATIC SELF AND GET ALONG WITH MY COLLEAGUES AND BUILD THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

AND, YOU KNOW, REALLY TOMASSONI TAUGHT ME THE BEST TECHNIQUE THERE IS, IT'S CALLED THE MUMBLE STRATEGY.

IS YOU GET UP, AND YOU GO, HELLO, THIS IS REALLY A GOOD BILL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, I HOPE YOU VOTE FOR IT.

AND YOU SIT DOWN.

AND THEN EVERYONE VOTES FOR IT.

SO DRAMATIC SPEECHES ON THE FLOOR DON'T OFTEN GET YOU VOTES.

>> Mary: THAT'S PRETTY FUNNY.

WHAT'S YOUR ADVICE?

YOU'VE BEEN HERE A LONG TIME, YOU'VE GOTTEN A LOT OF BILLS PASSED, WHAT'S YOUR ADVICE?

>> WELL, I GUESS WHAT I JUST SAID, IS BUILD THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW MUCH WE DO REACH OUT ACROSS THE AISLE AND HOW MUCH WE DO WORK WITH OUR COLLEAGUES ON THE OTHER SIDE.

THAT YOU NEED TO DO THAT TO GET THINGS DONE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU NEVER KNOW, THESE MAJORITIES FLIP AND YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE -- IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE HERE FOR A WHILE, YOU'VE REALLY GOT TO BUILD THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

>> Mary: YOU TALKED ABOUT BEING A RADICAL FEMINIST.

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHEN YOU CAME IN, I THINK THERE WERE ONLY FIVE WOMEN IN YOUR FRESHMAN CLASS WHEN YOU ENTERED INITIALLY.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE BEING ONE OF THOSE FEMALE TRAILBLAZERS INITIALLY?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT WE WERE IGNORED A LOT AND, SO, WE HAD TO KIND OF BAND TOGETHER AND SUPPORT EACH OTHER A LOT MORE THAN WE DO NOW, WHERE WOMEN KIND OF RULE.

AND IT WAS OFTEN -- WE OFTEN NEEDED TO HAVE KIND OF MALE MENTORS THAT WOULD STICK UP FOR US AND WOULD, YOU KNOW, WOULD HELP US OUT.

IN ORDER TO GET THINGS ACCOMPLISHED.

>> Mary: DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'RE PAYING THAT FORWARD NOW, MENTORING ALL THE WOMEN YOU HAVE, ESPECIALLY IN YOUR CAUCUS?

>> THEY DON'T NEED IT.

THEY ARE JUST -- THEY COME IN, THEY'RE RARING TO GO, AND THEY AUTHORED MAJOR BILLS AND DO THEIR RESEARCH.

NO, THEY COULD MENTOR ME.

THEY'RE GREAT.

[ Laughter ] >> Mary: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE HISTORY YOU MADE WITH YOUR GOOD FRIEND, ELLEN ANDERSON.

I BELIEVE WE CALL IT WHEN YOU BROKE THE PANTS BARRIER.

>> OH, GOD, I HATE THAT STORY.

>> Mary: BUT, STILL, THERE WAS A RULE.

THERE WAS A RULE.

>> IT WAS A RULE.

WOMEN COULD NOT WEAR PANTS, RIGHT?

AND, SO,ELLEN WORE -- I THINK SHE WORE PANTS ONE DAY, IT WAS A FRIDAY, AND WE HAD A SURPRISE SESSION, AND SHE'D WORN PANTS THAT DAY.

SO SHE GOT CAUGHT WITH PANTS.

AND THEN, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, I WENT OUT THAT WEEKEND AND I BOUGHT A PANTSUIT, AND I WORE IT PURPOSELY ON MONDAY.

>> Mary: SO INSTEAD OF GOING THROUGH RULES COMMITTEE OR TRYING TO DO A VOTE ON THE FLOOR, YOU GUYS JUST DID IT.

>> WE JUST DID IT.

AND THEN WE HAD TO TALK ABOUT IT.

HAD TO DO ALSO WITH THE PAGES, BECAUSE THE PAGES -- THE WOMEN PAGES WERE ALSO TOLD THEY HAD TO WEAR DRESSES.

WELL, THESE YOUNG WOMEN, ALL THEY HAD WAS PARTY DRESSES.

SO IT WASN'T REALLY APPROPRIATE FOR THEM TO WEAR THEM ON THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE.

ALTHOUGH THE MEN DID LIKE IT.

BUT, ON THE OTHER HAND, WE DIDN'T WANT TO GO DOWN THE UNIFORM ROUTE.

>> Mary: YEAH.

>> SO WE JUST SAID, YOU CAN WEAR PANTS, IT'S MINNESOTA WINTER, WEAR IT WITH A BLAZER.

>> Mary: YOU TALK ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS.

YOU HAD A RELATIONSHIP IN HE LEGISLATURE, SHALL WE TALK ABOUT YOUR SPOUSE, WHO YOU MET IN THE LEGISLATURE?

>> NO.

>> Mary: YOU WON'T TALK ABOUT THAT.

>> NO, NO.

I DIDN'T MEET HIM 'IN THE LEGISLATURE.

>> Mary: OH, YOU DIDN'T.

YOU HAD A SPOUSE IN THE LEGISLATURE AT ONE POINT.

>> NO.

>> Mary: NO, HE ASN'T.

THAT WAS ELLEN.

>> Mary: SORRY THAT WAS ELLEN.

>> ELLEN AND ANDY DAWKINS.

>> Mary: ELLEN AND ANDY MET -- >> HE MET HER EFORE SHE WAS A LEGISLATOR.

>> Mary: THERE WERE A LOT OF COUPLES.

>> AND THERE STILL ARE COUPLES.

>> Mary: WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

>> IT'S CHALLENGING, YEAH, WHEN THEY REPRESENT DIFFERENT DISTRICTS BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO -- YOU KNOW, WITH ANDY AND ELLEN, THEY SPENT THREE AND A HALF DAYS AT ELLEN'S HOUSE.

>> Mary: YOU GUYS WERE SO ALIKE FOR SO MANY YEARS, I MELDED YOUR RELATIONSHIPS.

>> NO, MY HUSBAND'S FROM JERSEY.

>> Mary: SO SENATE PRESIDENT, LET'S GO TO THAT.

BECAUSE THAT DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF DIVERSITY UP UNTIL RECENTLY, TOO, UNTIL THERE WAS A WOMAN, THEN THERE'S A PERSON OF COLOR.

WAS THAT KIND OF A LITTLE BIT OF A BARRIER BREAKER, TOO, GETTING UP TO THE SENATE PRESIDENT DESK.

>> I THINK SO.

MICHELLE FISCHBACH ENDED UP BEING SENATE PRESIDENT BEFORE ME BECAUSE WE LOST THE MAJORITY, BUT I'D BEEN IN LINE TO DO THAT BECAUSE I'D BEEN PRO TEM FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

YEAH, I DID ENJOY BEING SENATE PRESIDENT, BUT IT'S A HARD JOB.

AND YOU HAVE TO STAND UP THERE FOR HOURS AND HOURS, LISTENING TO PEOPLE ON THE FLOOR, DRONE ON AND ON AND ON, AND IT'S EXHAUSTING, REALLY.

>> Mary: AND DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO DO BILLS AND LEGISLATE, TOO, I WONDER IF SENATE PRESIDENTS DON'T GET TO PRESENT IN COMMITTEE GENERALLY OR ON THE FLOOR.

>> YOU HAVE A LESS INTENSE COMMITTEE, I CHAIRED THE HIGHER ED COMMITTEE WHILE I WAS SENATE PRESIDENT, AND ACTUALLY I ASKED SENATOR BAKK TO RELIEVE ME OF COMMITTEES FROM MY SECOND TWO YEARS, SO THEN I DIDN'T CHAIR A COMMITTEE AT ALL BECAUSE IT WAS HARD TO DO BOTH.

>> Mary: SO YOU DO HAVE TO GIVE UP SOME OF YOUR WORK LOAD TO DO SENATE PRESIDENT.

>> YEAH, DEFINITELY, BECAUSE YOU'RE UP THERE FOR SO MANY HOURS.

>> Mary: WHY NOW, WHY DO YOU WANT TO LEAVE NOW?

>> OH, MARY, 42 YEARS IS ENOUGH.

[ Laughter ] I THINK -- AND I ALSO WANT TO LEAVE ON A HIGH, BECAUSE '23 WAS A GREAT YEAR, WE DID WONDERFUL BONDING BILL, $2.6 BILLION.

LAST YEAR WE DID A BONDING BILL.

>> Mary: YEAH.

>> HAD A LITTLE BLIP IN '24.

>> Mary: YEAH.

>> AND THEN I THINK THIS YEAR WE'LL DO A BONDING BILL.

>> Mary: YOU DO?

>> LEAVING AFTER I FEEL LIKE I ACCOMPLISHED THINGS THAT I WANTED TO DO FOR TEN OR MAYBE 20 YEARS AND ALSO WHILE I'M STILL REALLY HEALTHY.

>> Mary: IT'S NICE TO GO OUT ON TOP IN THE MAJORITY.

>> THAT'S IT.

>> Mary: SANDY PAPPAS, THANK YOU SO MUCH IT FOR YOUR SERVICE ALL THESE YEARS.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> APPRECIATE KNOWING YOU ALL THESE YEARS.

>> Mary: WE'LL BE BACK NEXT WEEK, OUR RETIRING LAWMAKER IS SENATOR WARREN LIMMER.

IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN WATCH COMMITTEES, PRESS CONFERENCES, FLOOR SESSIONS, ON THE CHANNEL YOU'RE WATCHING RIGHT NOW.

ON "ALMANAC," CATHY AND ERIC WILL TALK ABOUT THE WILD WEATHER WE HAD THIS WEEK.

KAOMI LEE IS LOOKING AT DATA CENTERS, BIG BILLS GOING THROUGH THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

I'LL TAKE A LOOK AT IMMIGRATION ISSUES STILL HERE AT THE CAPITOL.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, GOOD NIGHT.

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